Reflections at Keppel Bay (D4, 99 Years, Keppel Land)

**roly8** · 22-06-12, 10:09

got pple recommend me this reflection back in the 2008/2009

not bad since you got sea view + unique building structure though

but i got no $$$ to buy la

**hopeful** · 30-06-12, 14:28

just playing at squarefoot,
http://www.squarefoot.com.sg/trends-...-at-keppel-bay
reflections has lower rental than caribbean.
how can it be?

**Heng** · 01-07-12, 09:54

Originally Posted by hopeful

......reflections has lower rental than caribbean.
how can it be?

Originally Posted by hopeful

.........reflections has lower rental than caribbean.
how can it be?

HOW CAN IT BE ?

See previous post for details of 5 units sold in May 2012 at loss : one unit sold at more than $500k loss.

ALL the more unbelievable as these units were bought in 2007 ...during launch.......

GOING FORWARD ?

Those who buy recently must take into account SSD ( seller's stamp duty ) ....so even more difficult to sell at high prices.

Prospective buyers have to contend with ABSD ( Additional Buyer stamp duty )......many can buy but why want to pay extra ???

Especially when so many units are available for rental ? Better to rent than buy if want to enjoy the units ?

No high maintenance fees every month ...and property taxes, ....etc ...just pay the monthly rent and keep LANDLORD busy with multiple requests for servicing,,,,,,,,

**DC33_2008** · 01-07-12, 10:48

How is the lady who owns majority of the units at one of the towers? Is she selling?

Originally Posted by hopeful

just playing at squarefoot,
http://www.squarefoot.com.sg/trends-...-at-keppel-bay
reflections has lower rental than caribbean.
how can it be?

**Astronotus oscellatus** · 01-07-12, 11:50

Originally Posted by DC33_2008

How is the lady who owns majority of the units at one of the towers? Is she selling?

Rumour has it she is trying to sell...

**Heng** · 04-07-12, 12:30

Originally Posted by hopeful

just playing at squarefoot,
http://www.squarefoot.com.sg/trends-...-at-keppel-bay
reflections has lower rental than caribbean.
how can it be?

Most unprofitable for owners : Reflections

source : squarefoot

In 1H2012, the most unprofitable project was
Reflections at Keppel Bay, where a total loss of $7.4m
was realised.

On the flipside, landed homes in
Serangoon Garden Estate were the most profitable
with $59m in gross profits realised,

followed by The
Quintet, an Executive Condominium that just crossed

its first 5‐year last October.

**richwang** · 04-07-12, 21:01

http://www.zaobao.com.sg/cs/cs120704_001_1.shtml

其中吉宝湾映水苑（Reflections at Keppel Bay）屋主亏得最多，总共有27宗亏本交易，总亏损额达到740万元。

google translate:

"The Keppel Bay Keppel Bay Reflections (Reflections at Keppel Bay) homeowners afford to lose up to a total of 27 loss-making transactions, the total loss amounted to 740 million."

That's the risk of too much leverage.

Anyone has the unit numbers, we can then see whether those units are from her fire sell.

Thanks,
Richard

**richwang** · 04-07-12, 21:04

As I mentioned before, most Europeans prefer Caribbean. They don't mind something a little bit "old" (that can mean something with "history").
And they just cannot appreciate sky high buildings as "home".

Thanks,
Richard

**bargain hunter** · 04-07-12, 21:26

http://forums.condosingapore.com/sho...&postcount=724

only managed to post these 2012 losses records in my other thread before squarefoot blocked out the unit numbers

:

2012-05-28 #30-73 2,207sq ft 1,677psf 2007-08-06 1,905psf -503,196
2012-05-25 #16-72 1,528sq ft 1,531psf 2007-08-06 1,745psf -326,992
2012-05-25 #16-73 1,518sq ft 1,568psf 2007-08-06 1,688psf -182,160
2012-05-25 #25-72 1,485sq ft 1,616psf 2007-08-06 1,853psf -351,945
2012-05-23 #25-73 1,410sq ft 1,560psf 2007-08-06 1,792psf -327,120
2012-04-20 #07-53 4,747sq ft 1,591psf 2007-07-09 1,923psf -1,576,004
2012-03-12 #34-72 1,141sq ft 1,848psf 2007-08-20 2,102psf -289,814
2012-01-19 #03-70 1,012sq ft 1,399psf 2007-09-17 1,513psf -115,368
2012-01-04 #29-98 2,336sq ft 1,987psf 2007-05-03 2,134psf -343,392

Originally Posted by richwang

http://www.zaobao.com.sg/cs/cs120704_001_1.shtml

其中吉宝湾映水苑（Reflections at Keppel Bay）屋主亏得最多，总共有27宗亏本交易，总亏损额达到740万元。

google translate:

"The Keppel Bay Keppel Bay Reflections (Reflections at Keppel Bay) homeowners afford to lose up to a total of 27 loss-making transactions, the total loss amounted to 740 million."

That's the risk of too much leverage.

Anyone has the unit numbers, we can then see whether those units are from her fire sell.

Thanks,
Richard

**bargain hunter** · 04-07-12, 21:29

also interesting to note that paying premium prices for high floors at Reflections seem to have increased the probability of suffering losses.

Originally Posted by richwang

As I mentioned before, most Europeans prefer Caribbean. They don't mind something a little bit "old" (that can mean something with "history").
And they just cannot appreciate sky high buildings as "home".

Thanks,
Richard

**starrynight** · 05-07-12, 11:24

New colleague just rented a unit here. 1,9xx sq ft ground floor unit with patio. Sounded like a marina-facing unit. His budget was $8,500 so I think the rent he paid is around that amount.

**bargain hunter** · 05-07-12, 11:32

could it be one of those which keppel is leasing out?

Originally Posted by starrynight

New colleague just rented a unit here. 1,9xx sq ft ground floor unit with patio. Sounded like a marina-facing unit. His budget was $8,500 so I think the rent he paid is around that amount.

**starrynight** · 05-07-12, 14:58

Dunno. But the agreement will cross my desk - will update then

Originally Posted by bargain hunter

could it be one of those which keppel is leasing out?

**dormer** · 06-07-12, 14:00

While u guys still discussing about investors losing money in this project.

Like it or not. Another mega size unit just transacted @ $3,198psf

**AK47** · 06-07-12, 16:47

It is still a myth why people would pay so much more for high floors. Its a concerted effort by developers to create false precieved value.

Many projects sold their high floor at crazy prices. Those who bought the hype are still losing money.

What's so different between 10th floors over 30th floors? You still see pretty much the same stuffs but why pay 20% more?

**gn108** · 06-07-12, 17:13

Cost of building higher? Must recover cost ma

Originally Posted by AK47

It is still a myth why people would pay so much more for high floors. Its a concerted effort by developers to create false precieved value.

Many projects sold their high floor at crazy prices. Those who bought the hype are still losing money.

What's so different between 10th floors over 30th floors? You still see pretty much the same stuffs but why pay 20% more?

**dormer** · 06-07-12, 17:23

I don't think this high price is due to high floor unit.

This unit should be a low floor villa of 3000+sqft size that is overlooking the Sentosa.

**teddybear** · 06-07-12, 21:30

Low floor got mosquitoes, house flies, night flies, lizards, cockroaches, and more noisy? Also low floors many blocked by neighbouring blocks? Low floor hotter and less wind?

Originally Posted by AK47

It is still a myth why people would pay so much more for high floors. Its a concerted effort by developers to create false precieved value.

Many projects sold their high floor at crazy prices. Those who bought the hype are still losing money.

What's so different between 10th floors over 30th floors? You still see pretty much the same stuffs but why pay 20% more?

**Heng** · 07-07-12, 08:42

Originally Posted by AK47

It is still a myth why people would pay so much more for high floors. Its a concerted effort by developers to create false precieved value.

Many projects sold their high floor at crazy prices. Those who bought the hype are still losing money.

What's so different between 10th floors over 30th floors? You still see pretty much the same stuffs but why pay 20% more?

$3.7m for 30th floor is only $1,676 psf :: quite ok compared with lower floor psf ???

30-732207$1,67614/05/2012$3,700,00025-731410$1,56011/05/2012$2,200,00025-721485$1,61614/05/2012$2,400,00018-851496$1,83115/05/2012$2,739,00016-731518$1,56814/05/2012$2,380,00016-721528$1,53114/05/2012$2,340,00015-721518$1,51514/05/2012$2,300,00011-751206$1,58819/04/2012$1,914,77011-751206$1,58819/04/2012$1,914,77009-961389$1,75726/04/2012$2,440,00007-151119$1,56422/05/2012$1,750,00006-521055$1,57324/04/2012$1,660,00005-941012$1,66028/05/2012$1,680,00004-791313$1,59020/04/2012$2,087,65003-981012$1,63030/05/2012$1,650,00003-661851$1,77223/04/2012$3,280,550

**richwang** · 07-07-12, 09:01

Reformatted. Clearly the owner of #XX-72, #XX-73 has sold lots of units in May. Thanks, Richard

#30-73, 2207 sqft, $1,676 psf, 14/05/2012, $3,700,000;
#25-73, 1410 sqft, $1,560 psf, 11/05/2012, $2,200,000;
#25-72, 1485 sqft, $1,616 psf, 14/05/2012, $2,400,000;
#18-85, 1496 sqft, $1,831 psf, 15/05/2012, $2,739,000;
#16-73, 1518 sqft, $1,568 psf, 14/05/2012, $2,380,000;
#16-72, 1528 sqft, $1,531 psf, 14/05/2012, $2,340,000;
#15-72, 1518 sqft, $1,515 psf, 14/05/2012, $2,300,000;
#11-75, 1206 sqft, $1,588 psf, 19/04/2012, $1,914,770;
#09-96, 1389 sqft, $1,757 psf, 26/04/2012, $2,440,000;
#07-15, 1119 sqft, $1,564 psf, 22/05/2012, $1,750,000;
#06-52, 1055 sqft, $1,573 psf, 24/04/2012, $1,660,000;
#05-94, 1012 sqft, $1,660 psf, 28/05/2012, $1,680,000;
#04-79, 1313 sqft, $1,590 psf, 20/04/2012, $2,087,650;
#03-98, 1012 sqft, $1,630 psf, 30/05/2012, $1,650,000;
#03-66, 1851 sqft, $1,772 psf, 23/04/2012, $3,280,550.

**hyenergix** · 07-07-12, 09:21

Originally Posted by richwang

Reformatted. Clearly the owner of #XX-72, #XX-73 has sold lots of units in May. Thanks, Richard

#30-73, 2207 sqft, $1,676 psf, 14/05/2012, $3,700,000;
#25-73, 1410 sqft, $1,560 psf, 11/05/2012, $2,200,000;
#25-72, 1485 sqft, $1,616 psf, 14/05/2012, $2,400,000;
#18-85, 1496 sqft, $1,831 psf, 15/05/2012, $2,739,000;
#16-73, 1518 sqft, $1,568 psf, 14/05/2012, $2,380,000;
#16-72, 1528 sqft, $1,531 psf, 14/05/2012, $2,340,000;
#15-72, 1518 sqft, $1,515 psf, 14/05/2012, $2,300,000;
#11-75, 1206 sqft, $1,588 psf, 19/04/2012, $1,914,770;
#09-96, 1389 sqft, $1,757 psf, 26/04/2012, $2,440,000;
#07-15, 1119 sqft, $1,564 psf, 22/05/2012, $1,750,000;
#06-52, 1055 sqft, $1,573 psf, 24/04/2012, $1,660,000;
#05-94, 1012 sqft, $1,660 psf, 28/05/2012, $1,680,000;
#04-79, 1313 sqft, $1,590 psf, 20/04/2012, $2,087,650;
#03-98, 1012 sqft, $1,630 psf, 30/05/2012, $1,650,000;
#03-66, 1851 sqft, $1,772 psf, 23/04/2012, $3,280,550.

The taiwan lady?

**richwang** · 07-07-12, 09:23

#30-73, 2207 sqft, $1,676 psf, 14/05/2012, $3,700,000;
#30-73, 2207 sqft, $1,905 psf, 28/05/2012, $4,205,000.

S$4,205,000 - S$3,700,000 = $505,000

The transactions are within 2 weeks.
This must be an agent, no need to come up with capital, no need to pay agent fees.
Apart from normal Stamp duty, does the agent need to pay SSD, ABSD?

The agent has exercised the Option, but before enter into Sales & Purchase Agreement. So he has never "owned" the unit.
And then quickly sold to the real buyer.
Does he need to pay SSD since he has never been a "owner"?

This will open the door to flip (very fast flip).

Thanks,
Richard

**richwang** · 07-07-12, 09:51

2012-05-28 #30-73 2,207sq ft 1,677psf 2007-08-06 1,905psf -503,196

The first transaction was indeed in 2007,
The second transaction was in 2012.
The loss is half a million for the first owner.

Thanks,
Richard

**cartman** · 07-07-12, 11:09

Originally Posted by hyenergix

The taiwan lady?

was told the taiwan lady bought block 1A, stacks 75-79. anyone knows if keppel has issued keys to all buyers? or are there a lot more buyers waiting to collect their keys?

**Heng** · 07-07-12, 11:55

Originally Posted by richwang

Reformatted. Thanks, Richard

#30-73, 2207 sqft, $1,676 psf, 14/05/2012, $3,700,000;
#25-73, 1410 sqft, $1,560 psf, 11/05/2012, $2,200,000;
#25-72, 1485 sqft, $1,616 psf, 14/05/2012, $2,400,000;
#18-85, 1496 sqft, $1,831 psf, 15/05/2012, $2,739,000;
#16-73, 1518 sqft, $1,568 psf, 14/05/2012, $2,380,000;
#16-72, 1528 sqft, $1,531 psf, 14/05/2012, $2,340,000;
#15-72, 1518 sqft, $1,515 psf, 14/05/2012, $2,300,000;
#11-75, 1206 sqft, $1,588 psf, 19/04/2012, $1,914,770;
#09-96, 1389 sqft, $1,757 psf, 26/04/2012, $2,440,000;
#07-15, 1119 sqft, $1,564 psf, 22/05/2012, $1,750,000;
#06-52, 1055 sqft, $1,573 psf, 24/04/2012, $1,660,000;
#05-94, 1012 sqft, $1,660 psf, 28/05/2012, $1,680,000;
#04-79, 1313 sqft, $1,590 psf, 20/04/2012, $2,087,650;
#03-98, 1012 sqft, $1,630 psf, 30/05/2012, $1,650,000;
#03-66, 1851 sqft, $1,772 psf, 23/04/2012, $3,280,550.

Richard, can teach me how you reformat ?

thanks

from URA website : Reflections still got 282 units unsold. So resales will likely hover around $1,5XX ???

1,129 -847 282

**bargain hunter** · 08-07-12, 16:04

all the sellers who lost money in 2012 bought in 2007.

Originally Posted by bargain hunter

http://forums.condosingapore.com/sho...&postcount=724

only managed to post these 2012 losses records in my other thread before squarefoot blocked out the unit numbers

:

2012-05-28 #30-73 2,207sq ft 1,677psf 2007-08-06 1,905psf -503,196
2012-05-25 #16-72 1,528sq ft 1,531psf 2007-08-06 1,745psf -326,992
2012-05-25 #16-73 1,518sq ft 1,568psf 2007-08-06 1,688psf -182,160
2012-05-25 #25-72 1,485sq ft 1,616psf 2007-08-06 1,853psf -351,945
2012-05-23 #25-73 1,410sq ft 1,560psf 2007-08-06 1,792psf -327,120
2012-04-20 #07-53 4,747sq ft 1,591psf 2007-07-09 1,923psf -1,576,004
2012-03-12 #34-72 1,141sq ft 1,848psf 2007-08-20 2,102psf -289,814
2012-01-19 #03-70 1,012sq ft 1,399psf 2007-09-17 1,513psf -115,368
2012-01-04 #29-98 2,336sq ft 1,987psf 2007-05-03 2,134psf -343,392

**yowetan** · 08-07-12, 16:07

Originally Posted by bargain hunter

all the sellers who lost money in 2012 bought in 2007.

Hi. Those who bought in 2007 was the launch of Keppel Bay?

**richwang** · 08-07-12, 17:57

1997 was a peak,
2007 another peak,
2017 ?? do we need to wait for so long for the next peak?

And you can see, once rental cannot cover monthly payment, high end owners don't have the holding power. (Who says half a million real loss is nothing?)

Thanks,
Richard

**hyenergix** · 08-07-12, 18:29

Originally Posted by richwang

1997 was a peak,
2007 another peak,
2017 ?? do we need to wait for so long for the next peak?

And you can see, once rental cannot cover monthly payment, high end owners don't have the holding power. (Who says half a million real loss is nothing?)

Thanks,
Richard

Lease is running down.

sh · 08-07-12, 20:24

Originally Posted by richwang

1997 was a peak,
2007 another peak,
2017 ?? do we need to wait for so long for the next peak?

And you can see, once rental cannot cover monthly payment, high end owners don't have the holding power. (Who says half a million real loss is nothing?)

Thanks,
Richard

Huat till 2017!

Then can drop 50% after go up 100%....

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Thread: Reflections at Keppel Bay (D4, 99 Years, Keppel Land)

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5 units sold at loss in May 2012 when prices etc are high and rising

Most unprofitable project was Reflections

27 transaction in Reflection at loss

Caribbean is better

#30-73:: 2207 sq ft:::$1,676psf:::14/05/2012:$3,700,000

Sold in May

Half a Million Gross Profit in Two Weeks?

Sorry, wrong date

282 unsold units : developer selling at about $1.8k psf ?

High End may not have the holding power

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