Reflections at Keppel Bay (D4, 99 Years, Keppel Land)

[orangeroad80]

Hi,

Having bought an unit in reflections, I become v curious on what would be surrounding developments around Harbourfront precinct, not sure abt you, as I am hoping for good capital appreciation in 5 yrs time. Below are the future developments I am aware of, anyone are aware any additional ones ?

1. 2 plots of residential besides caribbean, and 1 plot of residential in keppel island. Plot 3 seems to be under the design Daniel Libeskind and would be low floor. Not sure when will it be launched - this year 2012 ? Hopefully launched at 2300-2500 psf and abv.
2. Bay Hotel opening in 1st quarter 2012
3. Skyline residences and Foresta launched, at avg psf 1900 & abv
4. Harbour Suites Condo
5. Keppel golf lease run out in yr 2022, not sure what is the future development in that area, heard from agents it's likely residential
6. There would be a bridge link from plot 3 and plot 4 to harbour front, so residents from reflections can have a better walk to MRT in the future. Not sure when will it be built ?
7. A underground tunnel from sentosa entrance/exit to kampong bahru area will ease traffic around this area
8. Small land around telok blangah mrt area, not sure will it further utilised ?
9. I always wonder why the area in Seah Inn road, food center, bus interchange and the 2 big carparks are not developed. It is a plot of land with huge potential as there is a direct link to MRT.

Any gurus know anymore other than the above ?

[testtest]

goggled some ideas for that round pillar in room:

http://tinyurl.com/6sg9764
http://tinyurl.com/7mgwdc6
http://tinyurl.com/87hg2k6
http://tinyurl.com/727ht2c
http://tinyurl.com/7c7bb6m

just emailed my friends who bought 1, 2 and 3br.

some are very nice!!!

[lifeline]

some are very nice!!!

there are lots more... just google and switch on image mode.
i just chose the nicer ones with variety of ideas.

[DC33_2008]

IMO, the southern part of Singapore, ie. D1,2, 5, 7, have great potential in the next 25 years.

Hi,

Having bought an unit in reflections, I become v curious on what would be surrounding developments around Harbourfront precinct, not sure abt you, as I am hoping for good capital appreciation in 5 yrs time. Below are the future developments I am aware of, anyone are aware any additional ones ?

1. 2 plots of residential besides caribbean, and 1 plot of residential in keppel island. Plot 3 seems to be under the design Daniel Libeskind and would be low floor. Not sure when will it be launched - this year 2012 ? Hopefully launched at 2300-2500 psf and abv.
2. Bay Hotel opening in 1st quarter 2012
3. Skyline residences and Foresta launched, at avg psf 1900 & abv
4. Harbour Suites Condo
5. Keppel golf lease run out in yr 2022, not sure what is the future development in that area, heard from agents it's likely residential
6. There would be a bridge link from plot 3 and plot 4 to harbour front, so residents from reflections can have a better walk to MRT in the future. Not sure when will it be built ?
7. A underground tunnel from sentosa entrance/exit to kampong bahru area will ease traffic around this area
8. Small land around telok blangah mrt area, not sure will it further utilised ?
9. I always wonder why the area in Seah Inn road, food center, bus interchange and the 2 big carparks are not developed. It is a plot of land with huge potential as there is a direct link to MRT.

Any gurus know anymore other than the above ?

[richie$$$]

glf course moving?
port moving?

[richie$$$]

glf course moving?
port moving?

[DC33_2008]

This is the start of the growth potential in this region. D3 and 4 too.

glf course moving?
port moving?

[orangeroad80]

Keppel club lease end 2021, I guess that's why keppel land 5 yrs ago during reflections' launch, priced bay and sea view units all 1.9k psf & abv and golf facing units 1.5k psf & abv, a minimum difference of 400k psf, it's all part of the plan. The bay view is a permanent view and confirmed unblocked, the golf view only has a life span of 10 yrs and not sure what lies ahead, likely to be high rise buildings which will block skyline residences.

I read from URA, Tanjong port lease end 2027 and i think it's likely to be part of new URA Master plan. But I think it will benefit more of pinnacle flats, sentosa cove's viewing directions, than reflections.

Anyone know if there will be a direct link from harbour front mrt to tanjong pagar area or bayfront mrt ? I think this will def impact capital appreciation.

[dtrax]

You're guess is as good as my guess. My guess is it will be probably be till when the port lease ends in 2027. Here is an old article:

Keppel club lease end 2021, I guess that's why keppel land 5 yrs ago during reflections' launch, priced bay and sea view units all 1.9k psf & abv and golf facing units 1.5k psf & abv, a minimum difference of 400k psf, it's all part of the plan. The bay view is a permanent view and confirmed unblocked, the golf view only has a life span of 10 yrs and not sure what lies ahead, likely to be high rise buildings which will block skyline residences.

I read from URA, Tanjong port lease end 2027 and i think it's likely to be part of new URA Master plan. But I think it will benefit more of pinnacle flats, sentosa cove's viewing directions, than reflections.

Anyone know if there will be a direct link from harbour front mrt to tanjong pagar area or bayfront mrt ? I think this will def impact capital appreciation.

[Heng]

Keppel club lease end 2021, I guess that's why keppel land 5 yrs ago during reflections' launch, priced bay and sea view units all 1.9k psf & abv and golf facing units 1.5k psf & abv, a minimum difference of 400k psf, it's all part of the plan. The bay view is a permanent view and confirmed unblocked, the golf view only has a life span of 10 yrs and not sure what lies ahead, likely to be high rise buildings which will block skyline residences..

---------------------------------------------

Your "golf facing unit 1.5k psf & abv " means about 100 units without any view ? that is, facing other blocks ????

Examples are those below #11 ? I have seen #09-XX caveated at less than 1.5k psf.


Below $1,400 psf for #09- golf view ?? see attached

[Heng]

---------------------------------------------

Your "golf facing unit 1.5k psf & abv " means about 100 units without any view ? that is, facing other blocks ????

Examples are those below #11 ? I have seen #09-XX caveated at less than 1.5k psf.


Below $1,400 psf for #09- golf view ?? see attached

forgot attachment showing $1,333 psf or $1.12 m : golf view

2011 caveat

[orangeroad80]

Hmm....something fishy.

I myself bought a 2 bedder unit in reflections in Tower 3A during 2007 launch, so I am familar with the launch prices in 3A. I manage to glance at the 2007 developers price in the SLA strata for stack 89 and 93 for 8th,9th,10th and 11th floor 2 bedders. If my memory did not fail me, it was never this price range during 2007 launch. Example, I recall in SLA strata, #10-93 (Tower 3A) golf facing unit in SLA strata is $1,550 psf, around $1.28m - 1.3m and stack 89 units bay viewing units 10th to 14th floor are all $1,950 psf & abv during 07 launch.

Hmm...the 840 2 bedder I saw in URA transacted in Jul/Aug 2011 was 1,713 psf at 1.438 m instead of 1.1 m in your screenshot. Any error ?

Any owners here bought a 2 bedroom from developer during 2007 launch for $1100-$1300 psf ? (I don't mean 3 bedrooms, i think 3 bedrooms may be possible due to larger unit size). Anyone able to verify the below screenshot with the SLA strata values ?

forgot attachment showing $1,333 psf or $1.12 m : golf view

2011 caveat

[Heng]

URA records : in 2011 ....$1.35m...upwards for 2 bedroom

Psf ranges from $1,514 psf

2 bedroom launch in 2007 was around $1.2m ....Friend is not selling .. but trying to rent it out ......still no takers for rental since T O P 3 months ago...... He is keeping it because he knows he got it cheaper than most others who did not bargain with Developer.

[orangeroad80]

The URA screenshot is correct, but I was just surprised by the previous screenshot you show. From what I know, even the lowest 3rd floor tower unit, #03-93 2 bedder facing golf costs 1.2m and above, psf > 1400 during 07 launch. That's why I am very surprised when I saw both higher floors 09-93 and 09-89 costs only $1.1m, at $1300 psf. And stack 89 has a different facing.

If you are able to show 07 selling price of stack 89 and 93 10th-14th floor units, I will be able to tell whether the data is real or fake. Because I bought 2 of such units , and I just let go one of them in Dec 11 nearing to 1800 psf for a golf facing unit, even after ABSD is announced.

It is possible to sell 1700-1800 psf for a golf facing unit, and 2200 & abv for a sea view/bay view unit, so a message for the the owners here, we have already hold for 4-5 yrs, stay firm with your prices. Water town is already selling at 1200-1400 psf, skyline and foresta are selling 1900 avg. 1700-1800 psf is considered a steal for an iconic TOPed project like reflections, even if it's golf view.

URA records : in 2011 ....$1.35m...upwards for 2 bedroom

Psf ranges from $1,514 psf

2 bedroom launch in 2007 was around $1.2m ....Friend is not selling .. but trying to rent it out ......still no takers for rental since T O P 3 months ago...... He is keeping it because he knows he got it cheaper than most others who did not bargain with Developer.

[orangeroad80]

It seems that Keppel has started conceptualization and design work on Keppel Bay Plot 3, the plot next to Caribbean. They have engaged some companies to do cladding work to be completed by 2013. It's seems to be low floor, similar to what was stated in master plan that plot 3 and 4 should not block the view from mount faber. Design seems to be undertaken back by Daniel Libeskind Studio and Emerson studio. It is likely to be the 2nd residential project for DL in singapore, after reflections project.

http://www.heintges.com/project.php?...el-bay-plot-3#
(the 4th image shows how the connecting bridge from keppel bay area to
harbour looks like. Even the map in Labrador park indicates a future connecting bridge, so it is more or less confirm that there is going to be a bridge.)

http://emersonstudio.com/experience/...sidential.html

For cladding targeted to complete by end 2013, I suspect Keppel is observing the market and may make use of the opportunity to launch plot 3 around end 2012/early 2013 when mortgage interest is still low. The next plot of development will help to set new price benchmarks in harbour front precinct. With the next development being low-floor, it is even more confirmed that Reflections will stand as the largest project, only high rise and tallest high-rise residence that is a footstep away from the sea in harbourfront precinct, until the possibilities of high-rise residences replacing keppel golf area during 2025-2030. Don't miss the boat, especially when high-end condo gap is now nearing mass market OCR condo prices eg watertown and bedok residences.

[Heng]

Hmm....something fishy.

I myself bought a 2 bedder unit in reflections in Tower 3A during 2007 launch, Hmm...the 840 2 bedder I saw in URA transacted in Jul/Aug 2011 was 1,713 psf at 1.438 m instead of 1.1 m in your screenshot. Any error ?

Any owners here bought a 2 bedroom from developer during 2007 launch for $1100-$1300 psf ?

The $1.438 m at $1,713 psf is a sea -facing unit ( stack 78 ).


There are other 840 sq ft units in other Towers with lower psf and prices because of golf view, etc

Many first owners who bought cheap ( $1.2 m etc )are still owning the units. ( thus not in the URA 2011 caveats shown ?? )

The URA caveat list ..2011 caveats... at peak.. before latest cooling measures have taken effect.....thus many units around $1.4m ( sub-sale )

So should expect 2 bedroom units to fall....below $1.4m ??

[orangeroad80]

I know #10-78 is a 2 bedder 829 sq feet. Anything below 10th floor is likely to be blocked by Villa even if it is sea facing stack. That is why there is a jump in psf from 10th floor onwards as compared to low floors.

The 1.438m is a 840 sq feet which is likely lower than 10th floor and blocked by villa, that is why it could not command bay viewing psf. The owner may bought it for around 1600 psf in 2007. Be careful when agents tell you that villa top floor is 7th floor, so anything abv 7th floor is unblocked. You have to go in to see it for yourself. As far as I know, to be on the safe side, only 10th and above is unblocked.

I think one may still be able to find good deals around 1.43m-1.5m for 2 bedder, which is low floor eg 3rd floor and etc, 1600 psf due to larger size, lower floors.

For the low floors golf viewing 2 bedders, the owners bought it for 1.24m-1.3m 5 years ago, it is unlikely one would sell it below 1.4m after holding it for 5 long years, especially now that the project has TOP, the owners have no urgency to sell, they can rent and hold. I would say if one can get a unit in reflections now below 1.5m or less than 1600psf, it is considered a good deal. With current mass market prices at bedok and punggol and surrouding new projects like skyline and foresta demanding 1900psf and abv, carribbean re-sale prices, and keppel having plans to launch plot 3, i foresee high chances that even the golf facing units in reflections can hit 1900psf and abv. By then, one can hardly find any units in reflections less than 1.5m.

So owners here who are thinking to sell, my advice is to rent and hold till the economy conditions are favourable for selling the units, eg when foresta and skyline TOP.

The $1.438 m at $1,713 psf is a sea -facing unit ( stack 78 ).


There are other 840 sq ft units in other Towers with lower psf and prices because of golf view, etc

Many first owners who bought cheap ( $1.2 m etc )are still owning the units. ( thus not in the URA 2011 caveats shown ?? )

The URA caveat list ..2011 caveats... at peak.. before latest cooling measures have taken effect.....thus many units around $1.4m ( sub-sale )

So should expect 2 bedroom units to fall....below $1.4m ??

[Heng]

sorry for error in posting : too messy data

[Heng]

[quote=orangeroad80]I know #10-78 is a 2 bedder 829 sq feet.


I think one may still be able to find good deals around 1.43m-1.5m for 2 bedder, which is low floor eg 3rd floor and etc, 1600 psf due to larger size, lower floors.

For the low floors golf viewing 2 bedders, the owners bought it for 1.24m-1.3m 5 years ago, /quote]

$1,438,000 for 840sq ft$1,713psf Aug-11

[Heng]

Due to many units still unsold ... difficult to compete with developer...

1,129 less 836 sold = 293 balance at end of 2011


$1,551 psf sale by developer ( 2011 Dec )

If want to cash out and move to other opportunties, then more likely has to be much lower psf and perhaps sell at cost ??/

[orangeroad80]

Yeah developer is still selling, i think it's because they released by batches till 2010. The remaining are mainly villa units, 3 bed rm & 4 bed rm. The quantum is much higher. The 2 bedders were sold out yrs ago.

From what I know, the price is higher than 2007 launch price and facing may not be better, that's why some ppl are still buying sub-sales than buying from developer. The showflat is still open, you can walk in and check out the prices and remaining units : )

[Heng]

Hmm....something fishy.

I myself bought a 2 bedder unit in reflections in Tower 3A during 2007 launch,....... Example, I recall in SLA strata, #10-93 (Tower 3A) golf facing unit in SLA strata is $1,550 psf, around $1.28m - 1.3m .............

Any owners here bought a 2 bedroom from developer during 2007 launch for $1100-$1300 psf ? ..............?

DEC 2011 developer sold at $1.5k psf ...

Looking ahead, due to Additional Buyer Stamp Duty ( ABSD of 3 to 10% ) etc, and the additional release of units by developer, it looks likely that psf may be down to $1,200 psf or about 1.2m for 2 bedrooms.

In good times, 2 bedroom units were going for about 1.4m in 2011 ( pre-ABSD )

[orangeroad80]

Hey bro,

It's obvious, can see your intentions of trying to push the price down. This easily tell the real owners here that alot of ppl actually wish to own a unit in reflections, but hope the prices can go down as low as mass market condo prices so that they can buy. Just like alot of them have missed the boats and reply in The Sail and marina bay residences forum, hoping prices can crash.

Sigh .... If there is big fall in reflections prices, carribbean, harbour lights, skyline, foresta and sentosa cove will all be affected, you really want to see your fellow sgporeans all burn their fingers ?

DEC 2011 developer sold at $1.5k psf ...

Looking ahead, due to Additional Buyer Stamp Duty ( ABSD of 3 to 10% ) etc, and the additional release of units by developer, it looks likely that psf may be down to $1,200 psf or about 1.2m for 2 bedrooms.

In good times, 2 bedroom units were going for about 1.4m in 2011 ( pre-ABSD )

[howgozit]

Hey bro,

It's obvious, can see your intentions of trying to push the price down. This easily tell the real owners here that alot of ppl actually wish to own a unit in reflections, but hope the prices can go down as low as mass market condo prices so that they can buy. Just like alot of them have missed the boats and reply in The Sail and marina bay residences forum, hoping prices can crash.

Sigh .... If there is big fall in reflections prices, carribbean, harbour lights, skyline, foresta and sentosa cove will all be affected, you really want to see your fellow sgporeans all burn their fingers ?

Huh?....

I think Heng's posting here can't really affect the market lah....

With regards to considering for Sgporeans burning their fingers, I think no need lah... all go in with their eyes open.

In fact, if anything Sgporeans have only themselves to blame for chasing up the property prices to such ridiculous levels. The income to debt ratio for many so-called sgporean "investors" are at borderline.

[orangeroad80]

Ya quite true. I myself also puzzled when I went to the watertown showflats recently and couldn't understand the sg crowds.

Let's return to talk about more positive stuffs here then.

Posting some photos taken recently

Huh?....

I think Heng's posting here can't really affect the market lah....

With regards to considering for Sgporeans burning their fingers, I think no need lah... all go in with their eyes open.

In fact, if anything Sgporeans have only themselves to blame for chasing up the property prices to such ridiculous levels. The income to debt ratio for many so-called sgporean "investors" are at borderline.

[orangeroad80]

Clipper Round the World Yacht Race 2012

True Waterfront Living

[Heng]

Hmm....something fishy.

I myself bought a 2 bedder unit in reflections in Tower 3A during 2007 launch, ....Example, I recall in SLA strata, #10-93 (Tower 3A) golf facing unit in SLA strata is $1,550 psf, around $1.28m ........


Any owners here bought a 2 bedroom from developer during 2007 launch for $1100-$1300 psf ? ?

At launch price of $1.2m, even with high holding costs of at least $10k a year, the 2 bedroom unit is attractive to hold on to, even if left vacant.

I believe the high maintenance of close to $500 a month and property taxes will mean a loss of about $1,000 for every month the unit is not rented out.

Like those whose caveats were lodged in 2011, I too thought that $1.4 m was reasonable based on photos I have seen , brochure descriptions, etc.

Till I saw disappointment on the faces after collection of keys.....

Actual vs Perceived.....Room sizes very much smaller than expected...

Hot afternoon sun streaming in.... Views of other units blocking whatever sea view, etc....

CONSOLATION : A pillar large enough to vent all frustrations after paying a premium price to the first owner fortunate enough to sell out before TOP or before getting keys and the reality hits home.....

THUS it is always more prudent to view actual unit before buying ......

[august]

At launch price of $1.2m, even with high holding costs of at least $10k a year, the 2 bedroom unit is attractive to hold on to, even if left vacant.

I believe the high maintenance of close to $500 a month and property taxes will mean a loss of about $1,000 for every month the unit is not rented out.

Like those whose caveats were lodged in 2011, I too thought that $1.4 m was reasonable based on photos I have seen , brochure descriptions, etc.

Till I saw disappointment on the faces after collection of keys.....

Actual vs Perceived.....Room sizes very much smaller than expected...

Hot afternoon sun streaming in.... Views of other units blocking whatever sea view, etc....

CONSOLATION : A pillar large enough to vent all frustrations after paying a premium price to the first owner fortunate enough to sell out before TOP or before getting keys and the reality hits home.....

THUS it is always more prudent to view actual unit before buying ......

aiyo... those prices are obviously for the poorer facing stacks. They pay for what they get lah.

[8kenshin]

aiyo... those prices are obviously for the poorer facing stacks. They pay for what they get lah.

That's one of the reasons I love the marina facing Villas. South facing, limited West sun, sea at front, mountain to the back.

By minimum $4m is too much for me

[orangeroad80]

It's depends what you are comparing Reflections with .... if you compare it with The Marq at Patterson, The Orchard Residences and Sentosa cove, Reflections is considered cheap. If you compare it with HDB & BTOs, yes you will find it very expensive. It's relative, depending on what category of ppl buying it.

If you still can find 1.4m or below unit in reflections, golf facing, please pm me, I want to buy. I am serious.

At launch price of $1.2m, even with high holding costs of at least $10k a year, the 2 bedroom unit is attractive to hold on to, even if left vacant.

I believe the high maintenance of close to $500 a month and property taxes will mean a loss of about $1,000 for every month the unit is not rented out.

Like those whose caveats were lodged in 2011, I too thought that $1.4 m was reasonable based on photos I have seen , brochure descriptions, etc.

Till I saw disappointment on the faces after collection of keys.....

Actual vs Perceived.....Room sizes very much smaller than expected...

Hot afternoon sun streaming in.... Views of other units blocking whatever sea view, etc....

CONSOLATION : A pillar large enough to vent all frustrations after paying a premium price to the first owner fortunate enough to sell out before TOP or before getting keys and the reality hits home.....

THUS it is always more prudent to view actual unit before buying ......