Calling all Livia owners

[Unregistered999]

Precisely...Livia is just across one road from Ris Grandeur, hence distance to MRT is not really an issue. There is one big difference between both besides 99 yrs and Freehold and balconies issues, many more units in Livia will face future surrounding condos development on the opposite site and this has infact deterred many of my friends to park thier monies in this project. If i cannot wait, i may invest in Livia for only one reason...new condo...but i still think Ris Grandeur is a better option because it is Freehold. If i can wait, i will wait for the coming ones beside Livia.
On the overall, i do agree both are great projects.

Just curious, when you mentioned new condo development near Livia, are you referring to the vacant land between Livia and MRT track?
There is also small vacant land between Livia and Ris Grandeur, not sure what will happen to that.
Also how do you know about this? Any link to URA plan is appreciated.

[KG Tan]

Dear All,
This is the first time I am contributing to this forum. This is also the first time I am buying a private property having own a HDB flat for more than 5 years. As this will be the biggest investment of the lifetime, I have been looking at closely monitoring & analysing the Singapore Property Market/Outlook for more than 2 years. I have visited more than 60 condo showflats. I have talked to more than 100 agents in Singapore. I am glad that I have finally confirm a unit at LIVIA.

To start off, I am not an agent. I am not working for CDL or any developer. All I want here is to share with everyone the reason why I commit to buy a property now while some experts were warning the public the possibility of a property bubble forming. But more importantly, I would like to share with everyone WHY I chose LIVIA as compared with other condos in Singapore.

Location
LIVIA is located along Pasir Ris Drive 1 which is a rather quiet location.

MRT
I have tried walking from LIVIA to Pasir Ris MRT. It took me approx 8 mins. Condos which are within walking distance from MRT usually command higher price & rental. Look at The Quart, it is now selling at 750 pfs upon TOP. Look at Casa Merah, it has crossed the $800 psf mark.

Shopping Malls & Public Amenities
White Sand Shopping Mall is also within 8 mins walking distance from LIVIA. For those who have kids, there is also a NLB at White Sand Shopping Mall. You also have Elias Mall, West Plaza, Downtown East, Giant, Court, Ikea, Pasir Ris Park all within 5 mins driving distance.

Major Expressway
Depending on where you are heading, you will be able to hit TPE / KPE / ECP / PIE to your respective destinations within mins. It only take you 16 mins to reach Parkway ECP Exit. It will only take you 20 mins to reach Rocher ECP Exit. It will only take you 16 mins to reach Toa Payoh PIE exit. For food lovers, it will only take you less than 15 mins to reach Sims Ave KPE Exit to Geylang. It takes you less than 10 mins to Changi Airport.

Changi Business Park / 4th University / United World College / Racing track at Changi

These will be a key advantage for investors who are interested to rent their unit at LIVIA. However, do bear in mind that projects like Double Bay / Casa Merah / Optima will be a more attractive choice for those students/expats as compared to LIVIA. I would say LIVIA will probably be their 2nd choice to rent ahead of Ferraria Park & The Gale.

Developer
CDL are well known for delivering high quality finishes. If you have been to both LIVIA & Oasis @ Elias showflat, you will notice the huge difference in their finishes. In fact personally, the finishes are better than Double Bay & Waterfront Waves. The only 2 condos which I think has a better finishes than LIVIA are probably The Gale & Waterfront Key. My personal opinion of course.

Future Condos & Future Condo Effect on Pricing
CDL bought this piece of land more than 10 years ago. There will be a total of 4 or 5 condos to be built in this huge piece of land. In term of location, LIVIA is sitting on the 2nd BEST part of the land. The best part of the land should be at the current LIVIA showflat as it is even closer to MRT (probably 5 mins walking distance). The launch price of the next condo will definitely be much higher than LIVIA as I think CDL will only launch this when LIVIA is more or less SOLD OUT & when the economy has improved. Remember the "Centro Effect" or the "Optima Effect" which has caused Grandeur 8 & Casa Merah to appreciate in value? The next condo near LIVIA will be priced higher thus the same "EFFECT" we saw at Centro & Optima will also happened to LIVIA.

LIVIA's land size & facilities
The land size of LIVIA is 450,000 ft2 with 724 units. Not many condo today has such huge land area. Just for comparing purposes, the land size at Capsian is around 250,000 ft2 (if I remembered correctly) with more than 700 units. LIVIA will be extremely spacious. Comparing LIVIA's facilities with other condo, the only one that come close is Double Bay. Each condo MUST have it's distinct advantage. E.g. Compass Height has integrated MRT/Shopping Mall, The Gale is Freehold, Silversea has great seaview, etc. LIVIA's facilities will be an key advantage & selling points when you decide to sell your condo eventually.

Layout
The layout is very well designed. The house will be very bright as it has lots of bay windows & full height balcony/planter. This is an extremely important criteria to me from a "fengshui" point of view.

Price
At an average price of $630 pfs, this should be one of the lowest in the East. Optima is priced at $850 psf, The Gale $700 psf, Casa Merah $750 psf, Double Bay $680 psf. The only one that come close to LIVIA pricing is Oasis @ Elais. Beside the differences in finishes as compared to Oasis @ Elias, LIVIA definitely has better location, facilities, layout, etc.

Psychological Pricing Barriers
I remembered those days (actually not too long ago) in 2005/2006, when The Seaview, One Amber, The Esta were launched. The launch price were between $650 & $750 psf. We heard property experts commenting that these prices were not sustainable as those older condos in East were only selling at $500 psf, so why pay 30% more? If you are tracking the property prices in East Coast, you should be aware that these 3 condos mentioned have hit more than $1,000 psf. New launches like Silversea are selling at more than $1500 psf. The starting price point in East Coast is now minimum $900 & above. The point I am trying to make here is that, property pricing in Pasir Ris & other areas will eventually appreciate further. Who knows in 2 - 3 years time, the starting price point for condos in Pasir Ris will be $850 psf & above. Think about the capital appreciation when you are only paying $630 psf. This is of course my opinion.

Limited Land Supply
As you read from papers, property developers are running low in terms of their landbank. They have to produce good results & make profit for their company shareholders & the only way is to sell more condos. With their kind of bidding prices which are a few times more than the minimum bid, these condos will eventually have to be selling more than $1000 psf. Bear in mind that some of these lands may not as good as the piece of land at LIVIA in terms of location & accessibility. Buyers today are smart. They will always compare & compare.

HDB Pricing in Pasir Ris
LIVIA will attract those HDB flat owners in Pasir Ris. The selling price for those EA flats in Pasir Ris (opposite LIVIA) are between $500,000 & $600,000. A 3 br unit at LIVIA costs approx $800,000. Compare the difference & you will see that it will not be out of reach for those HDB upgraders to buy your unit at LIVIA eventually.

Nearby Primary & Secondary Schools
Not much comment here.

Double Dip Recession?
Will this happened? No one knows. The worst is probably in Q1 2009 & during this period, the selling price of LIVIA is around $600 psf as opposed to the current $630 psf. Even if there is a double dip recession & prices went down to Q1 2009 low, there is only a 5% paper loss. So I felt the down side is low as compared to the up side.

Inflation
With inflation, your money will become smaller & smaller. Property is one of the ways to hedge against inflation.

I hope the above are informative. Any comments or additional points are welcome. Cheers.

[Cactus72]

Dear All,
This is the first time I am contributing to this forum. This is also the first time I am buying a private property having own a HDB flat for more than 5 years. As this will be the biggest investment of the lifetime, I have been looking at closely monitoring & analysing the Singapore Property Market/Outlook for more than 2 years. I have visited more than 60 condo showflats. I have talked to more than 100 agents in Singapore. I am glad that I have finally confirm a unit at LIVIA.

Congrats! Feel happy for you...what is important is you like what you are buying. Cheers!

[gohsoonk]

You have indeed come out with good study of Livia, most likely with your extensive time spent around the island.

You have certainly echoed most of my thought process (I am owner too!).
Naturally, I agree with most of your thought process (owner too)...except the below:

Layout - The layout for Livia is ok. I have seen better at other developments. The plus side is that the balcony/planter area is not too big.
It does not have eye-catching features for the layout portion. E.g. Hoi Hup's pillarless corner at Versailies on Haig or all N-S apartments at Bloosoms@Woodleigh.

Double Dip Recession - If a double dip recession occurs, it will be hard to call out the bottom. Hence, I would not put the cap at 5%

I have another additional point:

When developments are priced cheap (relative to the rest of the market), there is always the thought that it is not good. The unique situation here is that the piece of land that Livia is sitting on was bought dirt cheap. Based on news articles in 08, its launch price was considered spoiling the market at that time. Even with the "low" launch price, the profits are still very good. This means that the developer has the flexibility to price themselves in times of crisis or property bubbles. Basically, it is "Bee Tang" for them. Hopefully, the finish will be good with the profits received. As always, the finish of a CityDev project seldom disappoint.

BTW, when did you buy Livia?

Dear All,
This is the first time I am contributing to this forum. This is also the first time I am buying a private property having own a HDB flat for more than 5 years. As this will be the biggest investment of the lifetime, I have been looking at closely monitoring & analysing the Singapore Property Market/Outlook for more than 2 years. I have visited more than 60 condo showflats. I have talked to more than 100 agents in Singapore. I am glad that I have finally confirm a unit at LIVIA.

To start off, I am not an agent. I am not working for CDL or any developer. All I want here is to share with everyone the reason why I commit to buy a property now while some experts were warning the public the possibility of a property bubble forming. But more importantly, I would like to share with everyone WHY I chose LIVIA as compared with other condos in Singapore.

Location
LIVIA is located along Pasir Ris Drive 1 which is a rather quiet location.

MRT
I have tried walking from LIVIA to Pasir Ris MRT. It took me approx 8 mins. Condos which are within walking distance from MRT usually command higher price & rental. Look at The Quart, it is now selling at 750 pfs upon TOP. Look at Casa Merah, it has crossed the $800 psf mark.

Shopping Malls & Public Amenities
White Sand Shopping Mall is also within 8 mins walking distance from LIVIA. For those who have kids, there is also a NLB at White Sand Shopping Mall. You also have Elias Mall, West Plaza, Downtown East, Giant, Court, Ikea, Pasir Ris Park all within 5 mins driving distance.

Major Expressway
Depending on where you are heading, you will be able to hit TPE / KPE / ECP / PIE to your respective destinations within mins. It only take you 16 mins to reach Parkway ECP Exit. It will only take you 20 mins to reach Rocher ECP Exit. It will only take you 16 mins to reach Toa Payoh PIE exit. For food lovers, it will only take you less than 15 mins to reach Sims Ave KPE Exit to Geylang. It takes you less than 10 mins to Changi Airport.

Changi Business Park / 4th University / United World College / Racing track at Changi

These will be a key advantage for investors who are interested to rent their unit at LIVIA. However, do bear in mind that projects like Double Bay / Casa Merah / Optima will be a more attractive choice for those students/expats as compared to LIVIA. I would say LIVIA will probably be their 2nd choice to rent ahead of Ferraria Park & The Gale.

Developer
CDL are well known for delivering high quality finishes. If you have been to both LIVIA & Oasis @ Elias showflat, you will notice the huge difference in their finishes. In fact personally, the finishes are better than Double Bay & Waterfront Waves. The only 2 condos which I think has a better finishes than LIVIA are probably The Gale & Waterfront Key. My personal opinion of course.

Future Condos & Future Condo Effect on Pricing
CDL bought this piece of land more than 10 years ago. There will be a total of 4 or 5 condos to be built in this huge piece of land. In term of location, LIVIA is sitting on the 2nd BEST part of the land. The best part of the land should be at the current LIVIA showflat as it is even closer to MRT (probably 5 mins walking distance). The launch price of the next condo will definitely be much higher than LIVIA as I think CDL will only launch this when LIVIA is more or less SOLD OUT & when the economy has improved. Remember the "Centro Effect" or the "Optima Effect" which has caused Grandeur 8 & Casa Merah to appreciate in value? The next condo near LIVIA will be priced higher thus the same "EFFECT" we saw at Centro & Optima will also happened to LIVIA.

LIVIA's land size & facilities
The land size of LIVIA is 450,000 ft2 with 724 units. Not many condo today has such huge land area. Just for comparing purposes, the land size at Capsian is around 250,000 ft2 (if I remembered correctly) with more than 700 units. LIVIA will be extremely spacious. Comparing LIVIA's facilities with other condo, the only one that come close is Double Bay. Each condo MUST have it's distinct advantage. E.g. Compass Height has integrated MRT/Shopping Mall, The Gale is Freehold, Silversea has great seaview, etc. LIVIA's facilities will be an key advantage & selling points when you decide to sell your condo eventually.

Layout
The layout is very well designed. The house will be very bright as it has lots of bay windows & full height balcony/planter. This is an extremely important criteria to me from a "fengshui" point of view.

Price
At an average price of $630 pfs, this should be one of the lowest in the East. Optima is priced at $850 psf, The Gale $700 psf, Casa Merah $750 psf, Double Bay $680 psf. The only one that come close to LIVIA pricing is Oasis @ Elais. Beside the differences in finishes as compared to Oasis @ Elias, LIVIA definitely has better location, facilities, layout, etc.

Psychological Pricing Barriers
I remembered those days (actually not too long ago) in 2005/2006, when The Seaview, One Amber, The Esta were launched. The launch price were between $650 & $750 psf. We heard property experts commenting that these prices were not sustainable as those older condos in East were only selling at $500 psf, so why pay 30% more? If you are tracking the property prices in East Coast, you should be aware that these 3 condos mentioned have hit more than $1,000 psf. New launches like Silversea are selling at more than $1500 psf. The starting price point in East Coast is now minimum $900 & above. The point I am trying to make here is that, property pricing in Pasir Ris & other areas will eventually appreciate further. Who knows in 2 - 3 years time, the starting price point for condos in Pasir Ris will be $850 psf & above. Think about the capital appreciation when you are only paying $630 psf. This is of course my opinion.

Limited Land Supply
As you read from papers, property developers are running low in terms of their landbank. They have to produce good results & make profit for their company shareholders & the only way is to sell more condos. With their kind of bidding prices which are a few times more than the minimum bid, these condos will eventually have to be selling more than $1000 psf. Bear in mind that some of these lands may not as good as the piece of land at LIVIA in terms of location & accessibility. Buyers today are smart. They will always compare & compare.

HDB Pricing in Pasir Ris
LIVIA will attract those HDB flat owners in Pasir Ris. The selling price for those EA flats in Pasir Ris (opposite LIVIA) are between $500,000 & $600,000. A 3 br unit at LIVIA costs approx $800,000. Compare the difference & you will see that it will not be out of reach for those HDB upgraders to buy your unit at LIVIA eventually.

Nearby Primary & Secondary Schools
Not much comment here.

Double Dip Recession?
Will this happened? No one knows. The worst is probably in Q1 2009 & during this period, the selling price of LIVIA is around $600 psf as opposed to the current $630 psf. Even if there is a double dip recession & prices went down to Q1 2009 low, there is only a 5% paper loss. So I felt the down side is low as compared to the up side.

Inflation
With inflation, your money will become smaller & smaller. Property is one of the ways to hedge against inflation.

I hope the above are informative. Any comments or additional points are welcome. Cheers.

[heutistmeintag]

LIVIA's land size & facilities
... The Gale is Freehold, ...
...
Price
At an average price of $630 pfs, this should be one of the lowest in the East. Optima is priced at $850 psf, The Gale $700 psf, Casa Merah $750 psf, Double Bay $680 psf. The only one that come close to LIVIA pricing is Oasis @ Elais. Beside the differences in finishes as compared to Oasis @ Elias, LIVIA definitely has better location, facilities, layout, etc.

Nearby Primary & Secondary Schools
Not much comment here.

Hi, good analysis and I hv 2 comments
1) You cannot put freehold and leasehold props in the same basket and compare.
2) for primary schools, a few popular ones are Pasir Ris Primary, White Sands Primary and Elias Park, which incidentally performed very well in 2008. for secondary schools, Hai Sing is probably the better one in this area unless Tampines is included. Then Ngee Ann secondary and Dunman Secondary are my recommendations

[lele]

Hi all livia owner, we have a yahoo group with close to 40 owners. Pls email to [email protected] to join

[aukang]

wow...i recall starting this thread after i bought Livia and it's still alive

Sorry i haven't contributed lots due to work and Livians are more active on the yahoo group, completed with pics.

I really look forward to the early TOP of the property

[gohsoonk]

wow...i recall starting this thread after i bought Livia and it's still alive

Sorry i haven't contributed lots due to work and Livians are more active on the yahoo group, completed with pics.

I really look forward to the early TOP of the property

Did not know you were one of those early bird purchasers. (which means you could pick and choose what you like then)

[gap969]

Hi All

First post here , just registered.
Was actually looking at Livia as i live in Pasir Ris currently.

Is there a reason CDL is offering at 616psf now?

The last low i monitored was in march or April 09 @ $620

Am now looking around this area hoping to get a reasonable buy.

[gohsoonk]

Hi All

First post here , just registered.
Was actually looking at Livia as i live in Pasir Ris currently.

Is there a reason CDL is offering at 616psf now?

The last low i monitored was in march or April 09 @ $620

Am now looking around this area hoping to get a reasonable buy.

which unit is up at 616psf? Can you clarify?

[gap969]

which unit is up at 616psf? Can you clarify?

It was in the papers saturday by CDL

There were 5 units offered last weekend , 3 bd rms and 4 bd rms
was told 2nd floor facing the road .

Agent called this morning to inform all sold

Only left with 4 bd rms

[gohsoonk]

It was in the papers saturday by CDL

There were 5 units offered last weekend , 3 bd rms and 4 bd rms
was told 2nd floor facing the road .

Agent called this morning to inform all sold

Only left with 4 bd rms

Pricing on papers always for units with some cons (e.g. low floor, facing substation, etc.)

[mantrix]

"
Layout
The layout is very well designed. The house will be very bright as it has lots of bay windows & full height balcony/planter. This is an extremely important criteria to me from a "fengshui" point of view."

and compare to what this website had to say...

http://flathopper.com.sg/2009/12/12/...d-bay-windows/

if the house turns out smaller than expected, at least you'll be glad to know it's bright

[aukang]

Yes Kelvin, I was one of the first to book my unit. Signed on the dot about an hour after they opened the showroom for preview way back in Jul 2008

I must say I've no regrets getting a unit in Livia and I look forward to staying there one day in the near future.

There's some talk about agents asking if owners wish to sell. I suppose some will take the chance to sell and make some $. But I'll not be selling mine even if there's a good offer cos after selling, I'd have to look for a new place which may not be as ideal as Livia.

I guess it's to each his own : )

[Wild Falcon]

Can I confirm this is also a freehold site that is sold as 99LH by the developer?

[gohsoonk]

Can I confirm this is also a freehold site that is sold as 99LH by the developer?

Where did you get the idea from?

[cheerful]

Where did you get the idea from?

Maybe he heard fr agents ... last time was told it used to be FH agricultural use, but converted to residential with 99 lease only.

[KG Tan]

From what I understand out of the 5 plots of land, 2 were FH while the other 3
LH before CDL bought the land many years ago. However I am not sure if it was before or after or during the purchase, the government decide to put all the 5 plots of land as LH. This is probably the reason why CDL took so long to launch Livia....(need to negotiate, re negotiate & re negotiate with the
government....) Therefore, I am quite sure we will not be under the mercy of CDL should Livia get "en bloc" eventually.

The good news is that Livia is now more than 96% sold. As of today, only a total of 27 units are left. 3 of them are 3+1 (1410ft2) & the rest 4 br units. The last Penthouse was sold. I heard there was an investor who bought 5 units last week.

When I was there earlier, there was a person considering buying 2 units & a
family finalising a unit.

I think LIVIA should be 100% sold soon. Cheers.

[KG Tan]

97 % SOLD.

3 + 1 BR (1410 ft2) - 3 units
4 BR (1539 ft2) - 17 units

[KG Tan]

98 % SOLD.
3 + 1 BR (1410 ft2) - 2 units
4 BR (1539 ft2) - 12 units

[okb1999]

Hi,

I am intending to get a unit 2+1 and was quote 915sqft 700k midfloor or 720k high floor. Work out to be avenrage 770 per square feet.

May i ask whats is the launch price for this size and any update news when will livia be ready?

Thanks

[gohsoonk]

Hi,

I am intending to get a unit 2+1 and was quote 915sqft 700k midfloor or 720k high floor. Work out to be avenrage 770 per square feet.

May i ask whats is the launch price for this size and any update news when will livia be ready?

Thanks

Average transacted price for this size is about 707psf (will not be liable if decisions are made based on this number :P). Official TOP is Dec 2011.

[lele]

Hi all,

with the recent vision at west coast, guess condo price wlll be push up further. 700+ psf is only can be used as a example, most condo including east side, eg pasir ris had the average psf increase at least 50psf.

Perhaps, government cooling can't help much as if hdb pricing keep going up, narrowing the gap between condo.

One example, if with each DBSS going up around 500 psf and new condo at around 800psf, that would mean near future EC (one in buangkok soon) would be 600-700 region.

Thus it mean more sense for full condo to raise up due to market pressure. Personnel view only, comments / pointers welcome.

Average transacted price for this size is about 707psf (will not be liable if decisions are made based on this number :P). Official TOP is Dec 2011.

[BillyCutie]

With the higher land price, expected higher construction cost (due to increasing foreign worker levy which construction industry is most exposed to) and stricter control over GFA for bay windows/balcony, cost to developers is definitely heading north. It would be interesting to see how these newly tendered lands launch in 2nd half year... and the rest will straight aligning up the price expectations. Wow, what a beginning for 1st quarter year !!

[htc206]

New record !
Heard a 2 + study jus sold at $750k liao !

[project-guru]

Yeah, get ready for Livia2 launch soon...
Will update as soon as I got more info.

[Condorich]

Hi,

I am intending to get a unit 2+1 and was quote 915sqft 700k midfloor or 720k high floor. Work out to be avenrage 770 per square feet.

May i ask whats is the launch price for this size and any update news when will livia be ready?

Thanks

When you buy, you have to ask yourself whether it is for self stay or investment. Stricter criteria for investments but for self stay, as long as the price is affordable, it is worth a serious thought.

20k difference for mid floor compared to high floor is really not much. I would rather get the higher floors instead if the layout and orientation is the same to speak of.

In today's market, no point looking at what the owners bought as you cannot travel back in time and buy then. You have to ask what is a fair market price and can you accept that price. It is only natural to give the earlier owners some fair margins as you would also expect to enjoy some fair margins when you sell later. Get it?

Lastly, no one can predict the future. If owners know that in future, price will definitely increase, they would not sell to you now or even put it up for sale. The same goes with buyers, if they know that in future, price would drop, they will never buy now. So the most important question to answer now is, what is the market price. Take a bet, you could win or lose as the owners could win or lose too. Its a gamble for both. Gd Luck!

[lele]

As livia was 100% sold back in jan/feb, thus now you could only buy via sub-sales, defintely it be much more expensive than they had brought. I guess seller can sell at least $60 psf more than what they had paid for. Near TOP condo will tend to be more expensive as people could see the condo shape, structure

When you buy, you have to ask yourself whether it is for self stay or investment. Stricter criteria for investments but for self stay, as long as the price is affordable, it is worth a serious thought.

20k difference for mid floor compared to high floor is really not much. I would rather get the higher floors instead if the layout and orientation is the same to speak of.

In today's market, no point looking at what the owners bought as you cannot travel back in time and buy then. You have to ask what is a fair market price and can you accept that price. It is only natural to give the earlier owners some fair margins as you would also expect to enjoy some fair margins when you sell later. Get it?

Lastly, no one can predict the future. If owners know that in future, price will definitely increase, they would not sell to you now or even put it up for sale. The same goes with buyers, if they know that in future, price would drop, they will never buy now. So the most important question to answer now is, what is the market price. Take a bet, you could win or lose as the owners could win or lose too. Its a gamble for both. Gd Luck!

[marktkt22]

just curious,...anyon has idea of the next few projects location on the same plot of land..?

[gohsoonk]

The huge plot of land is owned by CDL. It is broken up into 5 plots. Livia is on 1 plot. The next one will be launched behind Livia. Hence, there are 3 more plots and CDL can probably time to launch when they deem there is enough market demand.

just curious,...anyon has idea of the next few projects location on the same plot of land..?