Clover By The Park, Bishan

[cloverpark]

Frankly this development is not meant for rental as there are much better choices near to bishan and marymount mrt condos like bishan 8, rafflesia, bishan loft having 1250 sq ft or less.

The smallest unit in Clover already at 1216sq ft and it further away from MRT cause it demand for rental not really popular.
To rent out the smallest unit of 1216sq ft in clover, i think tenants will have plenty of other choices having similar size near to bishan MRT as most of the condo mentioned above do not have bigger units.

However if for home stay it is quite good choice as there are good schools, nice park and amenities. It has both nice park and city view too. It is convenience and easy accessible to the bus stop and shops thru the side gate.

I also think the bigger unit in clover have very promising potential in long term. As now government is promoting bigger family and elderly care, hence in 10 yr down the road when singaporean need bigger area like what clover have now the 4 bedders, will definitely WIN those near Bishan MRT, as only clover has this type of demand in bishan to provide larger space for bigger family.

[Condorich]

Frankly this development is not meant for rental as there are much better choices near to bishan and marymount mrt condos like bishan 8, rafflesia, bishan loft having 1250 sq ft or less.

The smallest unit in Clover already at 1216sq ft and it further away from MRT cause it demand for rental not really popular.
To rent out the smallest unit of 1216sq ft in clover, i think tenants will have plenty of other choices having similar size near to bishan MRT as most of the condo mentioned above do not have bigger units.

However if for home stay it is quite good choice as there are good schools, nice park and amenities. It has both nice park and city view too. It is convenience and easy accessible to the bus stop and shops thru the side gate.

I also think the bigger unit in clover have very promising potential in long term. As now government is promoting bigger family and elderly care, hence in 10 yr down the road when singaporean need bigger area like what clover have now the 4 bedders, will definitely WIN those near Bishan MRT, as only clover has this type of demand in bishan to provide larger space for bigger family.

Yup, your first post is a good post... this project is for self stay folks who can pay more for a better project.... Park view is rare and first to be sold out... cityview not too bad but still good enough since buyers are late.

Of course if can wait... the price should fall after 3 to 5 years from TOP. That is what usually happens when L99 projects lose their permium effect when it is aged.

[nicole08]

Yup, your first post is a good post... this project is for self stay folks who can pay more for a better project.... Park view is rare and first to be sold out... cityview not too bad but still good enough since buyers are late.

Of course if can wait... the price should fall after 3 to 5 years from TOP. That is what usually happens when L99 projects lose their permium effect when it is aged.

As till now, more than 85% are sold so no need to wait for 3 to 5 years after TOP

[xebay11]

why follow the crowd?
we all know that the majority of owners at clover have bought it for their own stay. whether the value goes up or down is secondary.
while the rest rush into properties next door to MRT, we pay cheaper for better quality of life.

You come into this world with nothing and you shall leave with nothing. i dont expect to make a bomb in terms of investment and pass it down to the next generation, although it would be nice if that happens.
buy a place which you like and can afford.

If only life was so simple, my planning is that with a well located FH property near MRT, even if more expensive, is forced saving, FH property would be good financial planning, if all goes well I would make a bomb, or if it does not appreciate like I planned, it is at least a hedge for retirement against inflation, just like a car, LH is a depreciating property the moment you takeover the key, also being well located near MRT, I can get a steady stream of rental income in the future for my old age....so although I may leave this world with nothing, I hope to have sufficient while I am alive.....a nice view by the park can wait. I don't see the logic of not buying FH when there are many well located FH properties which cost much less than overhyped LH properties.

[melodies]

MRT station congestion is nothing compared to within the MRT train and buses. Always jammed like hell (even so crowded during off-peak hours). Their frequency is so well timed as to ensure almost full load in the trains and buses at any time. Even if you home is far away from the MRT station, you still have to go to the station unless you don't need to use the MRT (&/or bus). Conversely, as long you are not at the station, why would you feel the raise of tempo and blood pressure?

as long as the home is beside mrt, definitely gonna be crowded/congested and to me the type crowd matters....meaning, i notice that people around the mrt vicinity are normally rushing which always raise my tempo and blood pressure, as compared to further away from the mrt where people move around more nonchalantly...just my 2 cents

[cl0ver]

If only life was so simple, my planning is that with a well located FH property near MRT, even if more expensive, is forced saving, FH property would be good financial planning, if all goes well I would make a bomb, or if it does not appreciate like I planned, it is at least a hedge for retirement against inflation, just like a car, LH is a depreciating property the moment you takeover the key, also being well located near MRT, I can get a steady stream of rental income in the future for my old age....so although I may leave this world with nothing, I hope to have sufficient while I am alive.....a nice view by the park can wait. I don't see the logic of not buying FH when there are many well located FH properties which cost much less than overhyped LH properties.

Life is never simple and is always full of challenges.
some prefer to just rent and never buy a property.
some love to stay with their parents till they age while collecting a steady stream of cashflow, ie prefer to squeze but enjoy a big bank balance.
some just loan and spend buy expensive cars which depreciates to zero.
some buy expensive watches because they also claim that it is a sort of investment.

my point is, there is no simple logic to always buy FH near MRT to make a "sure gain" while buying LH is a "sure lose" scenario.
just a few years back, the en-bloc phenomena already made many millionaires, not to mentioned some ocean view HDB owners as well.
some would argue that if you put all your money in the stock market beginning of the year you would have made 100% gain, returns much superior to property speculation.

so, always see things in perspective because there are plenty of opportunities around.

[Eldenfirefly]

Anyway, cannot everything only look at future investment potential of the place mah. If you are going to stay in it, then in the end, its more about whether it will make for a good home.

And Clover By the Park has many pros for those who want to stay there.

On the travelling to MRT bit. Its just 3 min wait for a bus, then a 5 min bus ride to Bishan MRT. That's 8 min. Its not a big deal. Even if you buy a development next to MRT, walk there also will still take 2 min. (unless its literally at the doorstep).

Difference may be just 6 min. Which is really no big deal.

A bit of added cost, ok also mah. How much more are we talking about here? Its the cost of a bus stop ride! Nobody will say that that's so much more expensive surely. Nowadays, just parking in the city will easily cost $200 per month. So, no matter what, taking public transport, even if add a 5 min bus ride is going to be much cheaper.

What I am saying here is that for a place to live in, Clover is nice. Near park, got ameneties, near a key interchange and bishan hub. Yet, traveling wise, its ok also. Travel time to Bishan MRT probably not more than 8 min. And from Bishan MRT, very easy to go anywhere. Even Circle line passes Bishan.

For investment property, its probably not going to be the best. But for staying in, its good. And even for investment purposes, its probably decent. Since you have additional demand from home owners for the place as well.

[2004civic]

well said, not to mention near Catholic High, St Nics (not too far), Aitong and RI, one of the best schools in Singapore.

It has its potential and hidden value, and once the river makeover of Bishan park /waterway is done, the place will be a gem.

I am not an owner , but I disagree that price will drop 3-5 years after TOP, cos the Bishan park makeover will only get better and better. Nowadays Singapore is so urbanised, with an ageing population, everyone is looking forward to a relaxed home next to nice greenery and fresh air... to me , thats more important than next to an MRT, cos when I am old, I will hardly need to travel too far, maybe just downstairs to the kopitiam or wet market, I rather go to Bishan park for my Taichi session...

Anyway, cannot everything only look at future investment potential of the place mah. If you are going to stay in it, then in the end, its more about whether it will make for a good home.

And Clover By the Park has many pros for those who want to stay there.

On the travelling to MRT bit. Its just 3 min wait for a bus, then a 5 min bus ride to Bishan MRT. That's 8 min. Its not a big deal. Even if you buy a development next to MRT, walk there also will still take 2 min. (unless its literally at the doorstep).

Difference may be just 6 min. Which is really no big deal.

A bit of added cost, ok also mah. How much more are we talking about here? Its the cost of a bus stop ride! Nobody will say that that's so much more expensive surely. Nowadays, just parking in the city will easily cost $200 per month. So, no matter what, taking public transport, even if add a 5 min bus ride is going to be much cheaper.

What I am saying here is that for a place to live in, Clover is nice. Near park, got ameneties, near a key interchange and bishan hub. Yet, traveling wise, its ok also. Travel time to Bishan MRT probably not more than 8 min. And from Bishan MRT, very easy to go anywhere. Even Circle line passes Bishan.

For investment property, its probably not going to be the best. But for staying in, its good. And even for investment purposes, its probably decent. Since you have additional demand from home owners for the place as well.

[xebay11]

cos when I am old, I will hardly need to travel too far, maybe just downstairs to the kopitiam or wet market, I rather go to Bishan park for my Taichi session...

Make sure you have $4 to $500 every month to pay for the maintenance of your Clover by the Park, I hope to be in landed property, or HDB when I am old. My parents now stay in landed property, super cheap to upkeep, because they save on high maintenance or parking fees, they can afford to enjoy aircon comfort almost 24/7 without worrying about the electricity bill.

[sleek]

well said, not to mention near Catholic High, St Nics (not too far), Aitong and RI, one of the best schools in Singapore.

Only applicable to those who have kids, and you will think otherwise when they can't get in, cos even ballot for those under 1km, or had completed their studies there.

[cl0ver]

Make sure you have $4 to $500 every month to pay for the maintenance of your Clover by the Park, I hope to be in landed property, or HDB when I am old. My parents now stay in landed property, super cheap to upkeep, because they save on high maintenance or parking fees, they can afford to enjoy aircon comfort almost 24/7 without worrying about the electricity bill.

not true. again, the selling point for clover is the low maintenance fee.
for a unit of 1600sft, it was indicated as $165 if i'm not mistaken....
i guess when you are back to HDB, it should be $67 conservancy and $90 for carpark.

[xebay11]

not true. again, the selling point for clover is the low maintenance fee.
for a unit of 1600sft, it was indicated as $165 if i'm not mistaken....
i guess when you are back to HDB, it should be $67 conservancy and $90 for carpark.

I hope you are right.

[Douk]

not true. again, the selling point for clover is the low maintenance fee.
for a unit of 1600sft, it was indicated as $165 if i'm not mistaken....
i guess when you are back to HDB, it should be $67 conservancy and $90 for carpark.

is this number realistic ?

[xebay11]

is this number realistic ?

Doesn't sound realistic at all, as I have never come across maintenance fees so cheap before, waiting for cl0ver to clarify.

[cl0ver]

you can check with your nearest OT agent.
there are 616 units and if you look at the overall smart landscaping, it doesnt require high maintenance.

its either 165 or 185, cant remember exactly.

[HANROSE]

For 3-bedders of size 1216~1604, the maint is at $165.
For 3-bedders/4-bedders of size 1700~2000, the maint is $185.
Low maint is due to the alfreso coffee that is plan for rental at clover.

[tantan]

The potential value of a development does not depend solely on whether it is near mrt. There are other factors like for example view. Many people are willing to pay high price to get a S'pore river view (not near mrt) & Sea view at east coast (not near mrt). For Clover, many units there are with a excellent park plus future landscaped river view or great city view.

Some people will think near mrt got no peace & quiet.

[xebay11]

The potential value of a development does not depend solely on whether it is near mrt. There are other factors like for example view. Many people are willing to pay high price to get a S'pore river view (not near mrt) & Sea view at east coast (not near mrt). For Clover, many units there are with a excellent park plus future landscaped river view or great city view.

Some people will think near mrt got no peace & quiet.

True but these are minority.

[cl0ver]

For 3-bedders of size 1216~1604, the maint is at $165.
For 3-bedders/4-bedders of size 1700~2000, the maint is $185.
Low maint is due to the alfreso coffee that is plan for rental at clover.

thanks hanrose. i think everyone is shocked to learn this.

[sleek]

For 3-bedders of size 1216~1604, the maint is at $165.
For 3-bedders/4-bedders of size 1700~2000, the maint is $185.
Low maint is due to the alfreso coffee that is plan for rental at clover.

Think many Condos in the past had such Coffee Shop, Supermarket etc, but that's probably due to the lack of amenities in their area.

So unless they charge cheaper than those outside the Condo, the residents will patronise it. But if they're are open only to residents, don't think they can charge cheap.

So residents will not patronise it, especially if they are better shops just outside.

[cl0ver]

they will probably charge between coffee bean and kopitiam...
if you go to bishan park, the spa and restaurants there arent exactly dirt cheap but people still patrionize them and they seem to be surviving in this economical climate.

its all about affordability these days rather than comparing prices and choosing the cheapest, ie, being kiasu..
people still buy $1.40 breadtalk floss when copycats are selling $1.00 nearby.
also, sometimes its about convenience. If you are swimming and in your "bigini", you wont want to run across the road to a kopitiam to buy drinks right?

[xebay11]

they will probably charge between coffee bean and kopitiam...
if you go to bishan park, the spa and restaurants there arent exactly dirt cheap but people still patrionize them and they seem to be surviving in this economical climate.

its all about affordability these days rather than comparing prices and choosing the cheapest, ie, being kiasu..
people still buy $1.40 breadtalk floss when copycats are selling $1.00 nearby.
also, sometimes its about convenience. If you are swimming and in your "bigini", you wont want to run across the road to a kopitiam to buy drinks right?

If it is Kopitiam or coffebean, security and privacy is compromised, do you know how many non residents swim at Mandarin Gardens?

[cl0ver]

If it is Kopitiam or coffebean, security and privacy is compromised, do you know how many non residents swim at Mandarin Gardens?

i dont get you.
are you saying non residents will come in to buy coffee at a price in between coffee bean and kopitiam?

you are mixing up the discussion by throwing in another.

we went from low maintainence (which is hard for you to believe) to saying that inhouse coffee shops will not survive to security breach in having non residence come in for a swim.

sounds very sour to me.

[xebay11]

i dont get you.
are you saying non residents will come in to buy coffee at a price in between coffee bean and kopitiam?

you are mixing up the discussion by throwing in another.

we went from low maintainence (which is hard for you to believe) to saying that inhouse coffee shops will not survive to security breach in having non residence come in for a swim.

sounds very sour to me.

Not sour, just that there are pros and cons. Anyway good that maintenance is low at Clover.

[sleek]

Well, the F&B outlets at Bishan Park had changed hand so many times, even those who tried to sell like you say between the Kopitaim & Coffeebean rates.

Surely, the novelty of the coffeshop will wear of for the residents. And also, after the 1st year, think the MC will take over the renting out and looking for a tenant to take over the business.

To me, its just a sales gimmick to provide low maintenance with such compensation from a business operation within the condo. And I don't think those other Condo with such shops pay lower maintenance either.

[xebay11]

Well, the F&B outlets at Bishan Park had changed hand so many times, even those who tried to sell like you say between the Kopitaim & Coffeebean rates.

Surely, the novelty of the coffeshop will wear of for the residents. And also, after the 1st year, think the MC will take over the renting out and looking for a tenant to take over the business.

To me, its just a sales gimmick to provide low maintenance with such compensation from a business operation within the condo. And I don't think those other Condo with such shops pay lower maintenance either.

For all intents and purposes the shops at Mandarin Gardens are doing good business, so the concept is actually sound.

[Douk]

Well, the F&B outlets at Bishan Park had changed hand so many times, even those who tried to sell like you say between the Kopitaim & Coffeebean rates.

Surely, the novelty of the coffeshop will wear of for the residents. And also, after the 1st year, think the MC will take over the renting out and looking for a tenant to take over the business.

To me, its just a sales gimmick to provide low maintenance with such compensation from a business operation within the condo. And I don't think those other Condo with such shops pay lower maintenance either.

totally agreed. and not to forget about the sinking fund.

[cl0ver]

of coz we cannot predict what the future MC will do.
there will be a small retail space and whether it is a coffee shop, launderette or convenience store, the rent should be standard.

but, how the estimation of such maintenance fee is arrived by the developer surely has to do with the number of units and the design of the whole landscaping. Afterall, Simlian is a respectable developer with completed units at The Pearl or Viz @ Holland.

as for sinking funds, it is normally accepted to be part of the maintenance fee total. whether this is still the case for clover remains to be seen.

[sleek]

For all intents and purposes the shops at Mandarin Gardens are doing good business, so the concept is actually sound.

Point to note is that Mandarin Gardens do not have amenities right outside, with the nearest being Siglap Center. And its also open to public as a friend of mine used to work in a shop there, and we were even invited to use the pool.

If we just use Trevista, since it similar in location & assume buyers profile, the maintenance fees for 3BR is at lower of $270pm. So the difference of $105 times the numbers of units will work out to about $65K pm, and definitely, the shop or shops rental will find it very hard to meet.

[xebay11]

Point to note is that Mandarin Gardens do not have amenities right outside, with the nearest being Siglap Center. And its also open to public as a friend of mine used to work in a shop there, and we were even invited to use the pool.

If we just use Trevista, since it similar in location & assume buyers profile, the maintenance fees for 3BR is at lower of $270pm. So the difference of $105 times the numbers of units will work out to about $65K pm, and definitely, the shop or shops rental will find it very hard to meet.

My point exactly but don't want to be accused of being sour.