Clover By The Park, Bishan

[clover]

Well said, Rockyboy !!

Hi neighbour....and Rockyboy...fully agreed
Cheers...

[i luv clover]

agreed. been eyeing for the 3+1 in the Quartz for almost 1.5 years...but price still didn't drop....even went to the showflat before committing clover on the same day, hoping the price will drop...but sigh....my advice is take up your dream unit once decided while is still hot and available before is GONE...

[TOP]

TOP can be deferred as it is just estimated. Just take note of date of legal completion which is the most important date. With the bottleneck in construction, TOP may be delayed. In any case, if TOP in late 2011, after checking rectification and renovation, probably can move in in 2012. Quite a long wait.

Yeah.. usually TOP much faster than stated officially.... much much faster... Dun want to get sued as developer has liability to purchasers if cannot TOP on time... so why so stupid and said when you expect to TOP... put a lah... but so cannot too long lah.. may put off purchasers... reasonable buffer lah.....

[Still there]

Rubbish. They're still going ahead with the funeral hub, just create a small buffer in between. They're not moving the hub anywhere else and it shall still be congregated in Sin Ming area.

i think they didn't go ahead with the plan to build 'funeral hub' because many residents around the area complained

Currently, the funeral parlours are in those 1-2 storey factory buildings along sin ming drive.. It isn't far from clover but you still need about 5 minutes drive or take a bus to go there.
Yah.. I think closer to the future marymount mrt.

[SeenClover]

Puzzle about servicing the loan.

Saw on the web one bank offering, 3.5, 3.5, 3.7 & 3.8 after (depend on floating rate, possible to hit 5).

Assume a 1m unit, assume you have 5% (50k) cash and 15% (150k) cpf, you still have 0.8m to service at above rates assuming 30 years which work out to be almost 4k monthly.

Current cpf oa (max cap at 4.5k) and depend on age is about 1k. That means you have to top up cash of about 3k.

My calculation correct?

Assume the publish data of Singaporean average family income of 5k, that is a lot cash monthly.

Even assume HDB upgrader has a 500k unit to dispose, you still have 0.3m to service which work out less that 1.5k a month.

Even if you earn 10k to 30k like the few here, you job must be secure to continue to have cpf and cash.

Of course en-bloc downgrader will have a lot of spare cash in millions to spare.

Even you clear all your savings and liquidate all your fixed assets with nothing except this fixed asset and your job, it is a puzzle to me.

Any advice?

[cl0ver]

TOP can be deferred as it is just estimated. Just take note of date of legal completion which is the most important date. With the bottleneck in construction, TOP may be delayed. In any case, if TOP in late 2011, after checking rectification and renovation, probably can move in in 2012. Quite a long wait.

Sim Lian always finish their project way ahead of time.... besides, only 2 towers and some landscaping. would be faster than other projects because less pilling work.

[Huat]

Rubbish. They're still going ahead with the funeral hub, just create a small buffer in between. They're not moving the hub anywhere else and it shall still be congregated in Sin Ming area.

Afterall, before Bishan MRT was built, the coffins had to be dug out...where else to find a more "huat" place...

[Unregistered101]

Puzzle about servicing the loan.

Saw on the web one bank offering, 3.5, 3.5, 3.7 & 3.8 after (depend on floating rate, possible to hit 5).

Assume a 1m unit, assume you have 5% (50k) cash and 15% (150k) cpf, you still have 0.8m to service at above rates assuming 30 years which work out to be almost 4k monthly.

Current cpf oa (max cap at 4.5k) and depend on age is about 1k. That means you have to top up cash of about 3k.

My calculation correct?

Assume the publish data of Singaporean average family income of 5k, that is a lot cash monthly.

Even assume HDB upgrader has a 500k unit to dispose, you still have 0.3m to service which work out less that 1.5k a month.

Even if you earn 10k to 30k like the few here, you job must be secure to continue to have cpf and cash.

Of course en-bloc downgrader will have a lot of spare cash in millions to spare.

Even you clear all your savings and liquidate all your fixed assets with nothing except this fixed asset and your job, it is a puzzle to me.

Any advice?

where you get the CPF cap? what i knew is your OA and SA added up must be above 53K if u want to use cpf to service your 2nd property. Else, will have to use cash. Of course, there is a loophole behind and your lawyer can advice you.........

[SeenClover]

Talking about our contribution cap. Not payment cap,

Check here,
http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/Members/Gen-...s/ContriRa.htm

Look for "Notes (1)"

If you are not aware could means you have not reach the max cap.

[CloverLover]

Puzzle about servicing the loan.

Saw on the web one bank offering, 3.5, 3.5, 3.7 & 3.8 after (depend on floating rate, possible to hit 5).

Assume a 1m unit, assume you have 5% (50k) cash and 15% (150k) cpf, you still have 0.8m to service at above rates assuming 30 years which work out to be almost 4k monthly.

Current cpf oa (max cap at 4.5k) and depend on age is about 1k. That means you have to top up cash of about 3k.

My calculation correct?

Assume the publish data of Singaporean average family income of 5k, that is a lot cash monthly.

Even assume HDB upgrader has a 500k unit to dispose, you still have 0.3m to service which work out less that 1.5k a month.

Even if you earn 10k to 30k like the few here, you job must be secure to continue to have cpf and cash.

Of course en-bloc downgrader will have a lot of spare cash in millions to spare.

Even you clear all your savings and liquidate all your fixed assets with nothing except this fixed asset and your job, it is a puzzle to me.

Any advice?

If you have a HDB, use it to service your loan.
You only need to fork out little cash then.

Don't ever sell your HDB because it is a good source of income.

[Unregistered xyz]

Hi CloverLover,

I am renting out my executive flat next to Clover for $3,000 per month.

[CloverLover]

Hi CloverLover,

I am renting out my executive flat next to Clover for $3,000 per month.

Good price.
I'm renting my HDB at Lavender area for $4,000 per month.

[SeenClover]

Wow!!!

Already rented now?

So all of you have more than 1 house and not staying in your HDB?

[SeenClover]

where you get the CPF cap? what i knew is your OA and SA added up must be above 53K if u want to use cpf to service your 2nd property. Else, will have to use cash. Of course, there is a loophole behind and your lawyer can advice you.........

53k cap

Just you alone or include the summation of your spouse portion.

So if you have 53k and your spouse have 53k, that will be usable?

OA or SA part of 53k, does it include those you have invested out?

[CloverLover]

Ordinary Account + Special Account > 53K (per person), surplass can use to pay for your private property.

I was told this by the UOB agent.

[Unregistered101]

Talking about our contribution cap. Not payment cap,

Check here,
http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/Members/Gen-...s/ContriRa.htm

Look for "Notes (1)"

If you are not aware could means you have not reach the max cap.

Not aware cos didn't bother on cpf too much...assume you and your spouse have reached the cap of 4.5k...hence u need to fork out cash 2k for monthly installment. But don't forget u can get a handsome rental from your other property (eg, HDB, provided u don't sell) and use it to top up the balance...

[Unregistered101]

53k cap

Just you alone or include the summation of your spouse portion.

So if you have 53k and your spouse have 53k, that will be usable?

OA or SA part of 53k, does it include those you have invested out?

actual $$ in OA+SA, excluding investment.

[i luv colver]

If you have a HDB, use it to service your loan.
You only need to fork out little cash then.

Don't ever sell your HDB because it is a good source of income.

how if u sell your HDB (assume fully repay) and buy another private property and use it for rental? would fetch u more $$...comments?

[yield]

how if u sell your HDB (assume fully repay) and buy another private property and use it for rental? would fetch u more $$...comments?

depends, at current market conditions, some hdbs provide excellent yields!

[Sell or rent]

depends, at current market conditions, some hdbs provide excellent yields!

if ur HDB can give you $500K, compare with your interest of $800K loan, instead of rent out, rather deposit the $500k to clear your loan first, feel much secure to have $300K loan instead of $800K, what if economic goes worse, no rental income, how to find so much $$$ to serve the $800K?

Therefore I suggest to sell HDB to fill the loan, instead of using the rental to cover partial loan. Your comment?

[yield]

if ur HDB can give you $500K, compare with your interest of $800K loan, instead of rent out, rather deposit the $500k to clear your loan first, feel much secure to have $300K loan instead of $800K, what if economic goes worse, no rental income, how to find so much $$$ to serve the $800K?

Therefore I suggest to sell HDB to fill the loan, instead of using the rental to cover partial loan. Your comment?

Do your calculations and compare accordingly.
Lets say your HDB is has market value of $500k.

Option 1, sell it get $500k to net off your condo loan
Option 2, sell it get $500k and invest in safe bonds or products that can earn you more than the interests you pay for the condo loan, at least 5% p.a.
Option 3, rent it out and collect income, example if can rent $3k, that will be roughly $36k p.a and so you get a yield of 36/500 = 7.2%

For me, i would go for Option 3 to take advantage of current market. Ofcoz one can argue that 3k rental is not guranteed and future market value of 500k may not hold.

So, choose what's comfortable to you. check historical HDB transacted prices and rentals and see where you are in the graph.

[Sell or rent]

Do your calculations and compare accordingly.
Lets say your HDB is has market value of $500k.

Option 1, sell it get $500k to net off your condo loan
Option 2, sell it get $500k and invest in safe bonds or products that can earn you more than the interests you pay for the condo loan, at least 5% p.a.
Option 3, rent it out and collect income, example if can rent $3k, that will be roughly $36k p.a and so you get a yield of 36/500 = 7.2%

For me, i would go for Option 3 to take advantage of current market. Ofcoz one can argue that 3k rental is not guranteed and future market value of 500k may not hold.

So, choose what's comfortable to you. check historical HDB transacted prices and rentals and see where you are in the graph.

To simplify, how about just compare the $500K loan interest cost v.s. rental at $2K ($3K is too optimized)?

[Interest]

To simplify, how about just compare the $500K loan interest cost v.s. rental at $2K ($3K is too optimized)?

Based on a 3.25% 20 years tenure, the 500K topup to reduce the loan of $800K to $300K save you a monthly instalment of $1,985.19.

If you will to keep the HBD value at $500K, you have to make sure that the rental yield for the next 20 years must exceed $1,985 per month.

So for me, I will rather sell my HDB and lower my loan to $300K.

[CloverLover]

how if u sell your HDB (assume fully repay) and buy another private property and use it for rental? would fetch u more $$...comments?

Sell HDB, rent new property, you stay where?
The scenario we are talking here is we already have a HDB, we want to buy private property. Should we sell or rent the HDB to finance the private property?

My advice will be to rent the HDB. Yes, selling the HDB will reduce the loan amount but in case if there is a financial crisis that you lost your job, you may have problem financing the private property and may ended up with nothing.
On the other hand, if you rent the HDB, you take a bigger loan, but your HDB can finance your private property comfortably but in longer periods. If got financial crisis, the most you will lose your private property, but you still have a HDB to stay.

I took a while to understand this after numerous teaching by my CFO.

[SIBOR]

Based on a 3.25% 20 years tenure, the 500K topup to reduce the loan of $800K to $300K save you a monthly instalment of $1,985.19.

If you will to keep the HBD value at $500K, you have to make sure that the rental yield for the next 20 years must exceed $1,985 per month.

So for me, I will rather sell my HDB and lower my loan to $300K.

3.25% is a bit high for current market. I think it should stay below for a few years. Having said that those working in banks should take advantage of staff rate which is almost 1-1.5%

[Interest]

3.25% is a bit high for current market. I think it should stay below for a few years. Having said that those working in banks should take advantage of staff rate which is almost 1-1.5%

Do you know are is the current best rate? Thanks

[Interest]

Do you know what is the current best rate? Thanks

[IRS]

If i price a 30yr Interest Rate Swap today the price to hedge a package of 800k loan with SIBOR 3M + 0.7% is around 4.67% fixed.

This is what the bank will earn today. Meaning they offer you $800k loan and charge you SIBOR + 0.7 and they swap this out with an IRS, meaning they pay the market SIBOR + 0.7 quarterly and they will receive 4.67% monthly for 30yrs !

[Unregistered222]

Sell HDB, rent new property, you stay where?
The scenario we are talking here is we already have a HDB, we want to buy private property. Should we sell or rent the HDB to finance the private property?

My advice will be to rent the HDB. Yes, selling the HDB will reduce the loan amount but in case if there is a financial crisis that you lost your job, you may have problem financing the private property and may ended up with nothing.
On the other hand, if you rent the HDB, you take a bigger loan, but your HDB can finance your private property comfortably but in longer periods. If got financial crisis, the most you will lose your private property, but you still have a HDB to stay.

I took a while to understand this after numerous teaching by my CFO.

to have the best of both world....sell your HDB, buy another TOPed condo and rent it out....immediate return....

[kennt]

Ordinary Account + Special Account > 53K (per person), surplass can use to pay for your private property.

I was told this by the UOB agent.

Extracts from CPF website


Q: Can I use my CPF to purchase more than one property?

A: Yes, you may use your CPF to purchase more than one property.

However, if you already own a property (HDB flat or private property) bought with your CPF savings and wishes to buy another property with CPF savings from 1 July 2006, you will be able to do so after setting aside in your Ordinary and Special Accounts (including the amount used for investment from the Special Account) the prevailing Minimum Sum cash component if you are below 55 years, or the Minimum Sum cash component shortfall if you are aged 55 and above.

If you currently own more than one property bought with CPF savings before 1 July 2006, you need not set aside the prevailing Minimum Sum cash component unless you subsequently buy another property using your CPF savings on or after 1 July 2006.

Please note that this is not applicable if you are applying to use your CPF to purchase a second or subsequent property with non-related singles. Non-related singles can only jointly use their CPF to purchase their one and only property (private property or HDB flat).