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Thread: Should I Sell My HDB?

  1. #1
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    Default Should I Sell My HDB?

    I am staying in a Private Condo and rented out my HDB exec(fully paid up).
    I am using my HDB rental to finance my PC mortgage Loan
    for the past 5 years. Seem a good deal initially but rental has been dropping and
    hardly able to cover my monthly loan payment (shortfall of few hundreds $).
    My HDB which I bought resale has reached 25 years (left 74 years)and I am
    retiring in a couple of years time.

    Agent has advised me to sell off my HDB as he feels that HDB value will not go up as in
    the past and the value in fact will drop as it gets older.

    I am thinking to sell it off to pay off my PC loan or invest in a smaller PC.

    Any suggestion from you guys? Thanks

  2. #2
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    Bad idea to sell off. Hdb has the highest rental yield. No need pay maintenace fee, no high property tax, govt will have home improvement program like change pipes, upgrading toilets, painting whole flat at subsidised cost. In fact 74yrs old lease left shows that your flat is still young. Maybe when left with 65yrs then u decide. Just my opinion. Now every month u only top up a few hundred dollars for your condo payment is not much. Let's say if u sold off your hdb what u do with the money? Leave in bank very low interest and money will disappear fast. If buy 1 bedder condo u need to pay maintenace fee n higher property tax.

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    Not forget that if u buy 2 property need to pay 7% absd.
    My guess is your flat might worth $600k? Rental $2300 to $2500? If u buy 1 bedder condo price is $600k rental only $1500 to $1700.

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    Thanks star. But very sian. Tenancy ending soon and tenant wanted me to lower rental a bit. To find another tenant i need to touch up the house and pay agent fee to find another tenant. I am thinking another option of buying reits to collect dividend rather than going thru all these hussles for rental. Agent predict the value by then may drop another 100k then what i collected go back to squre one or maybe even lost after minusing all the taxes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3C View Post
    Thanks star. But very sian. Tenancy ending soon and tenant wanted me to lower rental a bit. To find another tenant i need to touch up the house and pay agent fee to find another tenant. I am thinking another option of buying reits to collect dividend rather than going thru all these hussles for rental. Agent predict the value by then may drop another 100k then what i collected go back to squre one or maybe even lost after minusing all the taxes.
    do note that reits are very near all time highs and are subjected to market forces (fund flows). reits also do leverage so when interest rate increases, it may also cause dividends to decrease. they are also subjected to rental pressures as well.

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    After you retire, you will not incur taxes when you rent out.

    Do you have children?

    What are your longer term views about rental rates?
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

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    for me I will move back to HDB for my retirement as I will not have income, HDB has more privilege and subsidies, no need pay high maintenance fee

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    My situation almost same as yours, am thinking what should I do too?

    I have a fully paid 4-rm flat at a not so good location, rented out at a lowest rental rate in Singapore, my plan is to move back there when I retired, right now I am staying in a PC where near to my dad, he stay alone in a 4-rm flat at a better location.

    Question?

    - Could I inherit my dad flat if I have a PC?
    - Should I sell off my HDB? so that I can inherit my dad flat?
    - Or should I just stick with my plan, move back to my HDB, rent out or sell my PC when I retiring?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    After you retire, you will not incur taxes when you rent out.

    Do you have children?

    What are your longer term views about rental rates?
    Yes 2 sons in uni. Minister already hinted once reach 99 years value become zero.
    Yes i can rent out for the next 74 years and will more than get back what i put in. This is another option but provided i am prepared to continue to go thru all these hussles of each type of tenants, renovate, find tenant again. Neighbour complain my tenant, govt come out new rule, etc.

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    No, I believe u cannot. This is equal to already having PC and want to buy another HDB. Vice versa than can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMCK View Post
    My situation almost same as yours, am thinking what should I do too?

    I have a fully paid 4-rm flat at a not so good location, rented out at a lowest rental rate in Singapore, my plan is to move back there when I retired, right now I am staying in a PC where near to my dad, he stay alone in a 4-rm flat at a better location.

    Question?

    - Could I inherit my dad flat if I have a PC?
    - Should I sell off my HDB? so that I can inherit my dad flat?
    - Or should I just stick with my plan, move back to my HDB, rent out or sell my PC when I retiring?
    No, I believe u cannot. This is equal to already having PC and want to buy another HDB. Vice versa than can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3C View Post
    Yes 2 sons in uni. Minister already hinted once reach 99 years value become zero.
    Yes i can rent out for the next 74 years and will more than get back what i put in. This is another option but provided i am prepared to continue to go thru all these hussles of each type of tenants, renovate, find tenant again. Neighbour complain my tenant, govt come out new rule, etc.
    People just worry too much. Even the Hillford with 55yrs lease also got people and those industries land even worse 30yrs lease also got people buy. Yours 74yrs lease is a long time. Agent all want to "hang" (scare) u to sell off quick so they can get commission. Btw u want no hassle no risk but want quick money not possible. To make money need time and patient.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMCK View Post
    My situation almost same as yours, am thinking what should I do too?

    I have a fully paid 4-rm flat at a not so good location, rented out at a lowest rental rate in Singapore, my plan is to move back there when I retired, right now I am staying in a PC where near to my dad, he stay alone in a 4-rm flat at a better location.

    Question?

    - Could I inherit my dad flat if I have a PC?
    - Should I sell off my HDB? so that I can inherit my dad flat?
    - Or should I just stick with my plan, move back to my HDB, rent out or sell my PC when I retiring?
    It's a bit like asking, should I eat chicken rice that is satisfying at the Tiong Bahru hawker centre later, or Ghim Moh hawker centre, or should I go for a more comfortable meal at an Italian restaurant in the city instead?

    I believe you cannot inherit the flat even if you have decoupled as your family nucleus already owns a flat. You can sell and keep the proceeds though, either flat, if I am not mistaken. Do check with HDB.

    You can. But which one? Who knows? You know best.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

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    I would avoid buying reits or stocks now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3C View Post
    I am staying in a Private Condo and rented out my HDB exec(fully paid up).
    I am using my HDB rental to finance my PC mortgage Loan
    for the past 5 years. Seem a good deal initially but rental has been dropping and
    hardly able to cover my monthly loan payment (shortfall of few hundreds $).
    My HDB which I bought resale has reached 25 years (left 74 years)and I am
    retiring in a couple of years time.

    Agent has advised me to sell off my HDB as he feels that HDB value will not go up as in
    the past and the value in fact will drop as it gets older.

    I am thinking to sell it off to pay off my PC loan or invest in a smaller PC.

    Any suggestion from you guys? Thanks
    I am no expert but will consider the following:

    1. Sell off the HDB flat and use the cash portion to invest in well diversified REITS (for example well diversified hospitality REITS) which should give at between 5% to 7%.

    2. Keep the CPF portion with CPF to earn 2.5% (risk free) instead of using it to pay off your PC loan since the interest earn from CPF is higher than the interest paid for your housing loan.

    3. In case you are not able to finance your housing loan in the future, you still have money with CPF to pay off the housing loan or redeem the loan.

    I will also consider the status of the PC and evaluate if it make sense to keep this PC long term. What was your entry price? Does it have redevelopment potential? Rental income for the PC can cover loan? etc etc

    I will also reevaluate the reasons why I must live at this PC and not HDB flat and rent out the PC instead.

    If my long term needs can be answered, I will take the necessary action to reach my longer term goal.

  16. #16
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    Not only that, when you leverage, you earn all the extra profits and put into your own procket.
    When REITs leverage, extra profits goes to REITs manager while if leverage results in losses, you are the one shouldering them because REITs will have cash calls and issue many more REITs shares (to dilute your shares and cause sharp drop in your REITs share price).

    So, the problem here is that many people just see the so-called high "yield" paid by REITs without factoring in the share price dilution (that keep happening very often)!

    So, all in all, it is much more profitable to hold the properties in your own name than to own via REITs. REITs just add another level of management and costs which you can do without.

    In another words, it is also much more profitable to be just the REITs managers than their investors! (Is it any wonder why so many property companies are carving out their properties into REITs while they remain to be the REITs managers?!)

    Quote Originally Posted by bargain hunter View Post
    do note that reits are very near all time highs and are subjected to market forces (fund flows). reits also do leverage so when interest rate increases, it may also cause dividends to decrease. they are also subjected to rental pressures as well.
    Last edited by teddybear; 11-05-18 at 14:43.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3C View Post
    I am staying in a Private Condo and rented out my HDB exec(fully paid up).
    I am using my HDB
    for the past 5 years. Seem a good deal initially but rental has been dropping and
    hardly able to cover my monthly loan payment (shortfall of few hundreds $).

    rental to finance my PC mortgage Loan

    How much HDB rental =

    PC mortage Loan =

    My HDB which I bought resale has reached 25 years (left 74 years)and I am
    retiring in a couple of years time.

    How old =

    Wife age =

    Agent has advised me to sell off my HDB as he feels that HDB value will not go up as in
    the past and the value in fact will drop as it gets older.

    I am thinking to sell it off to pay off my PC loan or invest in a smaller PC.

    What is the cost of a smaller PC you looking at =

    PC outstanding loan =

    Any suggestion from you guys? Thanks
    Information not enough

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMCK View Post
    My situation almost same as yours, am thinking what should I do too?

    I have a fully paid 4-rm flat at a not so good location, rented out at a lowest rental rate in Singapore, my plan is to move back there when I retired, right now I am staying in a PC where near to my dad, he stay alone in a 4-rm flat at a better location.

    Question?

    - Could I inherit my dad flat if I have a PC?
    No
    - Should I sell off my HDB? so that I can inherit my dad flat?
    No
    - Or should I just stick with my plan, move back to my HDB, rent out or sell my PC when I retiring?
    Not enough information.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    Information not enough
    Smaller PC: 2 bedder 900k plus ABSD freehold estimated
    PC outstanding loan: 650K

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    Sorry 2 bedder old freehold condo already 1.2 mil

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3C View Post
    Smaller PC: 2 bedder 900k plus ABSD freehold estimated
    PC outstanding loan: 650K
    How much HDB rental = ?
    PC mortage Loan = ?
    Age husband = ?
    Wife age =
    What is the cost of a smaller PC you looking at =
    PC outstanding loan = 650K

  22. #22
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    How much HDB rental = $2200
    PC mortage Loan = $3k
    Age husband = 53
    Wife age =53
    What is the cost of a smaller PC you looking at =$1.2mil
    PC outstanding loan = 650K

  23. #23
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    HDB exec(fully paid up).
    How much HDB rental = $2200
    PC mortage Loan = $3k
    Age husband = 53
    Wife age =53
    What is the cost of a smaller PC you looking at =$1.2mil
    PC outstanding loan = 650K
    cash on Hand.
    CPF amount plus interest to return Husband and wife
    CPF OA SA MA both

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    Not only that, when you leverage, you earn all the extra profits and put into your own procket.
    When REITs leverage, extra profits goes to REITs manager while if leverage results in losses, you are the one shouldering them because REITs will have cash calls and issue many more REITs shares (to dilute your shares and cause sharp drop in your REITs share price).

    So, the problem here is that many people just see the so-called high "yield" paid by REITs without factoring in the share price dilution (that keep happening very often)!

    So, all in all, it is much more profitable to hold the properties in your own name than to own via REITs. REITs just add another level of management and costs which you can do without.

    In another words, it is also much more profitable to be just the REITs managers than their investors! (Is it any wonder why so many property companies are carving out their properties into REITs while they remain to be the REITs managers?!)
    Well said.

    I have some REITs as well, but more in property. Many of the REITs shares keep getting diluted. When interest rates rise, many REITs get hammered as well.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3C View Post
    I am staying in a Private Condo and rented out my HDB exec(fully paid up).
    I am using my HDB rental to finance my PC mortgage Loan
    for the past 5 years. Seem a good deal initially but rental has been dropping and
    hardly able to cover my monthly loan payment (shortfall of few hundreds $).
    My HDB which I bought resale has reached 25 years (left 74 years)and I am
    retiring in a couple of years time.

    Agent has advised me to sell off my HDB as he feels that HDB value will not go up as in
    the past and the value in fact will drop as it gets older.

    I am thinking to sell it off to pay off my PC loan or invest in a smaller PC.

    Any suggestion from you guys? Thanks
    IMO you should not sell of the HDB. It will be a nightmare to get another HDB in future.
    Everytime one makes a property move, transactional costs are not insignificant.
    Your HDB is giving you good income. Where is the location? If it's near to RCR then it will always have some value and 74 years is a really long time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonymontana View Post
    IMO you should not sell of the HDB. It will be a nightmare to get another HDB in future.
    Everytime one makes a property move, transactional costs are not insignificant.
    Your HDB is giving you good income. Where is the location? If it's near to RCR then it will always have some value and 74 years is a really long time.
    Good points. Thanks

  27. #27
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    People should just read this:
    https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...value-10224402

    I just extract sections of it:

    "SINGAPORE: When Mrs Y L Dong and her family moved into their resale five-room Housing Development Board (HDB) flat 20 years ago, she was certain they had found their ideal home. The Ang Mo Kio apartment may have been 17 years old, but its age did not bother her.

    “We have all the necessary conveniences like coffee shops and wet markets nearby. It’s a really friendly neighbourhood with a cosy feel and it is also really convenient to get to town from here,” she said.

    But last year, when she approached a property agent with the intention of selling her flat, the response was poor.

    After realising that the lease of the house was reaching its 40-year mark, most buyers weren’t keen at all. They were afraid they might not be able to sell it off in the future,” said the housewife who has two teenage children.

    Even though the flat is spacious and opposite Bishan Park and near prestigious schools, no one wanted to buy.
    Mrs Dong is not alone. A growing number of HDB flat owners are holding on to properties nearing the halfway point of their 99-year leases, raising mounting uncertainties of depreciating values, which have run counter to long-held narratives that Singaporeans’ HDB flats are not just homes, but also appreciating assets.
    "

    Above is the real reality about 99-years leasehold properties (regardless of HDB or private condos).

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    People should just read this:
    https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...value-10224402

    I just extract sections of it:

    "SINGAPORE: When Mrs Y L Dong and her family moved into their resale five-room Housing Development Board (HDB) flat 20 years ago, she was certain they had found their ideal home. The Ang Mo Kio apartment may have been 17 years old, but its age did not bother her.

    “We have all the necessary conveniences like coffee shops and wet markets nearby. It’s a really friendly neighbourhood with a cosy feel and it is also really convenient to get to town from here,” she said.

    But last year, when she approached a property agent with the intention of selling her flat, the response was poor.

    After realising that the lease of the house was reaching its 40-year mark, most buyers weren’t keen at all. They were afraid they might not be able to sell it off in the future,” said the housewife who has two teenage children.

    Even though the flat is spacious and opposite Bishan Park and near prestigious schools, no one wanted to buy.
    Mrs Dong is not alone. A growing number of HDB flat owners are holding on to properties nearing the halfway point of their 99-year leases, raising mounting uncertainties of depreciating values, which have run counter to long-held narratives that Singaporeans’ HDB flats are not just homes, but also appreciating assets.
    "

    Above is the real reality about 99-years leasehold properties (regardless of HDB or private condos).
    Not many believe it will happen to them, by the time they know it already too late.

    You never plan to fail, you only fail to plan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3C View Post
    Good points. Thanks
    https://www.todayonline.com/singapor...-will-not-last



    Do you see what I saw.

    https://www.srx.com.sg/singapore-pro...grading-demand

    As an illustration, a 5-room HDB owner in Bukit Merah who wants to upgrade to a two or three-bedroom private condominium of 80-100 sq m in the same area would only have to fork out another S$780,000 one year ago. Now, he has to fork out another S$900,000, Ms Tan said.

    So sorry need to sing a different song since the data is pointing the other direction.

    HDB max tenants now is 6 instead of 9.
    Last edited by Arcachon; 13-05-18 at 21:58.

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    I have been following this topic and thought I share my case study as well to seek some advices from the gurus here.

    I'm in a pretty much similar situation as the TS and some others.

    current situation:
    1. Have a fully paid up 3-br HDB in a not-so-fantastic location that is rented out. Tenancy expiring soon in Jul 2018.
    2. HDB is under my name (decoupled process).
    3. Currently staying in a PC with my family, bought under spouse name.
    4. HDB is nearing 40yrs old, i.e. left about 61 years lease. Current market valuation <$300k.

    Financial details:
    1. PC left 40% loan. rental from HDB is sufficient to cover the cash component of the monthly installment (in addition to spouse's CPF). But rental lease is going to expire soon.
    2. Both myself and spouse are working - monthly take home about 20k+ (Age: 40-45)
    3. Cash (in deposits) ~ 500k (excluding stocks)
    4. No car loan (COE valid for 9 more years)
    5. Two kids in Pri school

    Which option would you advise::
    1. If you are in my shoe, would you consider selling the HDB, and use the proceeds to look for another investment grade PC?
    2. Or would you keep the HDB, look for a small PC and pay the ABSD?
    3. Do nothing. Continue to let the HDB lease run down and hope rental continue to roll in.
    4. Any other better options?
    Last edited by stalker88; 14-05-18 at 11:10.

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