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Thread: City fringe condos

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    Default City fringe condos

    i basically have a simple question - whys there such a huge difference in the price of city fringe condos, given that they're all considered to be on the fringe of the city? lets see one example that immediately came to mind today while reading the papers.

    today's straits times said Commonwealth towers sold 40+ units over the past months at $1899 psf average. wow? queenstown at almost $1900?! redhill (echelon) was $2000-2100 psf at its peak? whys the psf so high for this section of the city fringe?

    then for comparison, look at eight riversuites at boon keng or those at potong pasir ($1300-1500 psf). isnt D12/13 kinda ok as well? agree that its not as atas. but would u really pay $500 psf more for redhill/ queenstown?

    can i hear some of your views? im quite puzzled. why is redhill/ queenstown so superior and boon keng/ potong pasir lagging behind so much?

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    You need to go to the place to feel it.

    When Southbank TOP I also don't understand how can a 2 Bedroom rent for 4K a month until I was there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aspirations View Post
    i basically have a simple question - whys there such a huge difference in the price of city fringe condos, given that they're all considered to be on the fringe of the city? lets see one example that immediately came to mind today while reading the papers.

    today's straits times said Commonwealth towers sold 40+ units over the past months at $1899 psf average. wow? queenstown at almost $1900?! redhill (echelon) was $2000-2100 psf at its peak? whys the psf so high for this section of the city fringe?

    then for comparison, look at eight riversuites at boon keng or those at potong pasir ($1300-1500 psf). isnt D12/13 kinda ok as well? agree that its not as atas. but would u really pay $500 psf more for redhill/ queenstown?

    can i hear some of your views? im quite puzzled. why is redhill/ queenstown so superior and boon keng/ potong pasir lagging behind so much?
    doesnt it ring a bell to you to invest in D12/13 den ??? lol

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    Should just go live there for some time to know, all kind of reasons...............
    Sometimes, the people living in there also matters.................

    Quote Originally Posted by aspirations View Post
    i basically have a simple question - whys there such a huge difference in the price of city fringe condos, given that they're all considered to be on the fringe of the city? lets see one example that immediately came to mind today while reading the papers.

    today's straits times said Commonwealth towers sold 40+ units over the past months at $1899 psf average. wow? queenstown at almost $1900?! redhill (echelon) was $2000-2100 psf at its peak? whys the psf so high for this section of the city fringe?

    then for comparison, look at eight riversuites at boon keng or those at potong pasir ($1300-1500 psf). isnt D12/13 kinda ok as well? agree that its not as atas. but would u really pay $500 psf more for redhill/ queenstown?

    can i hear some of your views? im quite puzzled. why is redhill/ queenstown so superior and boon keng/ potong pasir lagging behind so much?

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    Quote Originally Posted by aspirations View Post
    i basically have a simple question - whys there such a huge difference in the price of city fringe condos, given that they're all considered to be on the fringe of the city? lets see one example that immediately came to mind today while reading the papers.

    today's straits times said Commonwealth towers sold 40+ units over the past months at $1899 psf average. wow? queenstown at almost $1900?! redhill (echelon) was $2000-2100 psf at its peak? whys the psf so high for this section of the city fringe?

    then for comparison, look at eight riversuites at boon keng or those at potong pasir ($1300-1500 psf). isnt D12/13 kinda ok as well? agree that its not as atas. but would u really pay $500 psf more for redhill/ queenstown?

    can i hear some of your views? im quite puzzled. why is redhill/ queenstown so superior and boon keng/ potong pasir lagging behind so much?
    check the rental contracts signed, then you have your answer.
    but you can see this as PP having good value. It's up and coming, the next city fringe atas place.
    i also consider parts of D15 to have good value at today's market prices.
    as for areas around bendemeer/ moonstone side, it's a bit chaotic and rundown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    Should just go live there for some time to know, all kind of reasons...............
    Sometimes, the people living in there also matters.................
    holland road, bukit timah, i can understand. queenstown/ redhill, less so. it looks like any other city fringe area to me.
    but currently the rental is strong (comparatively speaking).
    at 2000psf, queenstown/redhill is at 1000 years peak price, isn't it. based on your theory, i shouldn't invest there. too ex already.

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    the other "cheaper" RCR is balestier road area. some people don't mind the slightly sleazy feel of the area. and of course the perennial favourite for investors - Geylang

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    I interpret it as the East-West travel (MRT and roads) travel being more comfortable at Queenstown / Redhill area rather than North-South travel from Potong Pasir.

    Being situated between two CBDs also appears as a strategic advantage, on top of the future business developments at Queenstown area.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonymontana View Post
    check the rental contracts signed, then you have your answer.
    but you can see this as PP having good value. It's up and coming, the next city fringe atas place.
    i also consider parts of D15 to have good value at today's market prices.
    as for areas around bendemeer/ moonstone side, it's a bit chaotic and rundown.
    with recent government land bidding exercise tat attracted 2 plots of land to be bidded at $1181psf and $1100psf....matter of time PP will catch up

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    PP/ boon keng to town takes 8-10mins through the highway

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonymontana View Post
    holland road, bukit timah, i can understand. queenstown/ redhill, less so. it looks like any other city fringe area to me.
    but currently the rental is strong (comparatively speaking).
    at 2000psf, queenstown/redhill is at 1000 years peak price, isn't it. based on your theory, i shouldn't invest there. too ex already.
    There are 1,000 personal and other reasons why QT and RH is maybe at 1,000 year historical prices. There are also probably 1,000 other choices which you can consider so as to avoid this 1,000 year peak prices especially slightly further at OCR areas where more than a 1,000 buyers have bought at 1,000 historical peak.

    1K nonsense, just kidding...happy mid week
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulho77 View Post
    with recent government land bidding exercise tat attracted 2 plots of land to be bidded at $1181psf and $1100psf....matter of time PP will catch up
    PP will be nicer after shops at venue and then poiz are up. rejuvenation now in fullswing for that area

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonymontana View Post
    the other "cheaper" RCR is balestier road area. some people don't mind the slightly sleazy feel of the area. and of course the perennial favourite for investors - Geylang
    I would recommend Park Place Residence but it is not for sale. It is also at 1,000 year historic peak prices (sorry, I just have to do it).

    1K nonsense continues...
    PropVestor

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    Quote Originally Posted by PropVestor View Post
    There are 1,000 personal and other reasons why QT and RH is maybe at 1,000 year historical prices. There are also probably 1,000 other choices which you can consider so as to avoid this 1,000 year peak prices especially slightly further at OCR areas where more than a 1,000 buyers have bought at 1,000 historical peak.

    1K nonsense, just kidding...happy mid week
    PropVestor
    happy 1,000th year peak price salutations to you as well , propvestor!

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    Based on my experience, I am sure that many of the THOUSAND buyers at who bought their OCR properties at THOUSAND years historical peak are going to burnt their trousers in coming property price crash..............

    Quote Originally Posted by PropVestor View Post
    There are 1,000 personal and other reasons why QT and RH is maybe at 1,000 year historical prices. There are also probably 1,000 other choices which you can consider so as to avoid this 1,000 year peak prices especially slightly further at OCR areas where more than a 1,000 buyers have bought at 1,000 historical peak.

    1K nonsense, just kidding...happy mid week
    PropVestor

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    Based on my experience, I am sure that many of the THOUSAND buyers at who bought their OCR properties at THOUSAND years historical peak are going to burnt their trousers in coming property price crash..............
    With TDSR can crash 40% still ok.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aspirations View Post
    i basically have a simple question - whys there such a huge difference in the price of city fringe condos, given that they're all considered to be on the fringe of the city? lets see one example that immediately came to mind today while reading the papers.

    today's straits times said Commonwealth towers sold 40+ units over the past months at $1899 psf average. wow? queenstown at almost $1900?! redhill (echelon) was $2000-2100 psf at its peak? whys the psf so high for this section of the city fringe?

    then for comparison, look at eight riversuites at boon keng or those at potong pasir ($1300-1500 psf). isnt D12/13 kinda ok as well? agree that its not as atas. but would u really pay $500 psf more for redhill/ queenstown?

    can i hear some of your views? im quite puzzled. why is redhill/ queenstown so superior and boon keng/ potong pasir lagging behind so much?
    My view is this on their location differences. Redhill and Queenstown are in a tight cluster of mature estate closer to Orchard (Tanglin Road is a huge plus for them), One North and yet few stops to CBD. Not to mention good schools are nearby too which parents will pay top dollar to be in this vicinity if they cannot afford Bukit Timah area. They drive rental and help pique investor interest. Their upkeep in prices is also partly driven by the high number of HDBs which historically command a high premium. I think there are $900K HDB transacted in QT before.

    If you look at Potong Pasir and Boon Keng, their location though close to city, they do not have such heavyweight factors. I call PP a 'nearer Kovan'. Boon Keng is somewhat an odd ball of very old HDBs and industrial parks. It is not exactly a very good mix. However, I see Potong Pasir being more exciting in future but probably still secondary to RH and QT in the west.

    2 cents,
    PropVestor

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    Quote Originally Posted by PropVestor View Post
    My view is this on their location differences. Redhill and Queenstown are in a tight cluster of mature estate closer to Orchard (Tanglin Road is a huge plus for them), One North and yet few stops to CBD. Not to mention good schools are nearby too which parents will pay top dollar to be in this vicinity if they cannot afford Bukit Timah area. They drive rental and help pique investor interest. Their upkeep in prices is also partly driven by the high number of HDBs which historically command a high premium. I think there are $900K HDB transacted in QT before.

    If you look at Potong Pasir and Boon Keng, their location though close to city, they do not have such heavyweight factors. I call PP a 'nearer Kovan'. Boon Keng is somewhat an odd ball of very old HDBs and industrial parks. It is not exactly a very good mix. However, I see Potong Pasir being more exciting in future but probably still secondary to RH and QT in the west.

    2 cents,
    PropVestor
    Agree.

    And the 1000 Ears Peek Prize.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PropVestor View Post
    My view is this on their location differences. Redhill and Queenstown are in a tight cluster of mature estate closer to Orchard (Tanglin Road is a huge plus for them), One North and yet few stops to CBD. Not to mention good schools are nearby too which parents will pay top dollar to be in this vicinity if they cannot afford Bukit Timah area. They drive rental and help pique investor interest. Their upkeep in prices is also partly driven by the high number of HDBs which historically command a high premium. I think there are $900K HDB transacted in QT before.

    If you look at Potong Pasir and Boon Keng, their location though close to city, they do not have such heavyweight factors. I call PP a 'nearer Kovan'. Boon Keng is somewhat an odd ball of very old HDBs and industrial parks. It is not exactly a very good mix. However, I see Potong Pasir being more exciting in future but probably still secondary to RH and QT in the west.

    2 cents,
    PropVestor
    ok, that said.. do u think QT/ RH is worth $500 psf more than PP/ BK??
    I do not like balestier cos its messy and sleazy as mentioned before. same for geylang (no doubt lots of FH condos there)
    of course theres bishan/ braddell but also not cheap - and while considered city fringe they're somewhat more far flung

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    With TDSR quite many of these people will have no spare cash to get them through the winter period without their property being forced sold!
    The next "winter" is expected to be very very CHILLING and LONG!

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    With TDSR can crash 40% still ok.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    With TDSR quite many of these people will have no spare cash to get them through the winter period without their property being forced sold!
    The next "winter" is expected to be very very CHILLING and LONG!
    I fully agree that the next "winter" is going to be very very long and COLD...just thinking of when....

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    With TDSR quite many of these people will have no spare cash to get them through the winter period without their property being forced sold!
    The next "winter" is expected to be very very CHILLING and LONG!
    I fully agree that the next "winter" is going to be very very long and COLD...just thinking of when....but must prepare NOW.

    In fact, if the next few enbloc and GLS did not see high prices, or for enbloc, fail attempts...then things would be very much difference

    and the price for those 99LH and >30 years will drop much faster

    There are too many enbloc exercises now, many will not be able to find takers

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    Not so fast yet, likely has been delayed by a few years (from normal cycle because of all the gerrymandering going on), got to be patience because it is going to be long enough for many goondus to jump into the bandwagon to buy OCR private properties at even higher THOUSAND YEARS historical peak price! The thing is, prices will just go higher for a while in some locations (like OCR especially).

    For me, my experience tells me that don't buy just "hoping" to enbloc, enbloc is just a bonus!

    And buy property with the aim to hold for >100 years, and we will definitely come out better 20-30 years down the road than tearing hairs trying to flip to raise money (because of need or better investment opportunity) while the cool long winter is raging..............


    Quote Originally Posted by Laguna View Post
    I fully agree that the next "winter" is going to be very very long and COLD...just thinking of when....but must prepare NOW.

    In fact, if the next few enbloc and GLS did not see high prices, or for enbloc, fail attempts...then things would be very much difference

    and the price for those 99LH and >30 years will drop much faster

    There are too many enbloc exercises now, many will not be able to find takers

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    Not so fast yet, likely has been delayed by a few years (from normal cycle because of all the gerrymandering going on), got to be patience because it is going to be long enough for many goondus to jump into the bandwagon to buy OCR private properties at even higher THOUSAND YEARS historical peak price! The thing is, prices will just go higher for a while in some locations (like OCR especially).

    For me, my experience tells me that don't buy just "hoping" to enbloc, enbloc is just a bonus!

    And buy property with the aim to hold for >100 years, and we will definitely come out better 20-30 years down the road than tearing hairs trying to flip to raise money (because of need or better investment opportunity) while the cool long winter is raging..............
    Hi...Bear Bear
    I have completed the mission on enbloc game...and now sitting tight on liquid assets...I am looking at around late 2018....please give us a thinker when the warning bell is ringing

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    This boat will leave the harbour ever so slowly, but it will not come back for anyone.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laguna View Post
    Hi...Bear Bear
    I have completed the mission on enbloc game...and now sitting tight on liquid assets...I am looking at around late 2018....please give us a thinker when the warning bell is ringing
    There are hordes of those in these shoes, and some of them are buying up several per property enblocced.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    This boat will leave the harbour ever so slowly, but it will not come back for anyone.
    Those wishing for another 20% crash maybe can wait long long...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laguna View Post
    Hi...Bear Bear
    I have completed the mission on enbloc game...and now sitting tight on liquid assets...I am looking at around late 2018....please give us a thinker when the warning bell is ringing
    Its an intriguing notion we can cash in our properties and wait out for the next market crash. I always though the good properties don't get wiped out in the crash, only the less desirable one. From my experience people that use this strategy only get pushed out further from the central location.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aspirations View Post
    ok, that said.. do u think QT/ RH is worth $500 psf more than PP/ BK??
    I do not like balestier cos its messy and sleazy as mentioned before. same for geylang (no doubt lots of FH condos there)
    of course theres bishan/ braddell but also not cheap - and while considered city fringe they're somewhat more far flung
    I think the new developments in PP by SPH & CEL will see the price gap narrow somewhat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aspirations View Post
    ok, that said.. do u think QT/ RH is worth $500 psf more than PP/ BK??
    I do not like balestier cos its messy and sleazy as mentioned before. same for geylang (no doubt lots of FH condos there)
    of course theres bishan/ braddell but also not cheap - and while considered city fringe they're somewhat more far flung
    When you start talking psf difference, its all down to micro-location, facing, floor height etc. Geylang and Park Place is pretty close but psf difference is significant. In short, I am paying 1,000 year historic peak prices for D14 (shame on me). I think suspect QT and PP will take over my trophy very soon based on recent land bids and so let me 'bear hug' this trophy longer. Perhaps you should already have a few condos in your consideration set which you can list out and compare. We can give our 2 cents.

    My current portfolio are CCR and RCR condos only so perhaps you should look at your overall portfolio objectives as well. What is the mix and how do they complement one another. Consider your risk spread and tenant mix-yield. I believe you do live pretty close to me and you know quite a fair bit in the South-Eastern Singapore properties. Play in a table where it is more familiar to you? D15 has plenty to offer still.

    All the best,
    PropVestor

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