Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 44

Thread: Are Singapore developers forced to walk a tightrope?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    349

    Default Are Singapore developers forced to walk a tightrope?

    https://www.propertysoul.com/2017/05...k-a-tightrope/


    Are Singapore developers forced to walk a tightrope?


    May 21, 2017



    Government Land Sales for residential sites in Singapore just crossed the S$1 billion mark. A 99-year leasehold site in Queenstown Stirling Road was sold at a top bid of S$1.003 billion. (Read article in Bloomberg.)

    The winning consortium is China’s Nanshan Group and Logan Property (a Chinese developer listed in Hong Kong). Nanshan has been eyeing at the Singapore property market for long. In the past 12 months, it participated in 8 of 11 tenders in Singapore’s land auctions.


    What is the role of the government?

    In Singapore, land use is regulated by Singapore Land Authority and Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA). They make decisions on zoning, plot ratio and development charges which have direct impact on the value of the sites.

    The Chief Valuer at IRAS sets a minimum reserve price on the land parcels based on recent property transactions. URA then sells them to developers through public tenders. The sites will be awarded to the highest bidders if they don’t fall below 85 percent of the reserve price.

    Chesterton Singapore reported that land prices have increased by an average of 30 percent each year from 2011 to 2014. Land auction data from URA also show that suburban areas such as Tampines, Clementi and Jurong West have land prices almost doubled from 2008 to 2014.

    The government can indirectly influence the selling price of new sites in at least 3 ways:

    1) Increase or reduce the release of new sites for public auction;

    2) Impose or relax cooling measures to restrict or stimulate the property market; and

    3) Launch of public flats to meet the demand for public housing.


    Where have developers’ profit margins gone?

    Building up the land bank and replenishing the stocks of sites are important to a property developer. Successful acquisition of land parcels means the launch of new projects in the pipelines. Successful launch of new projects can do wonders to the company’s financial results.

    The number of bidders in public auction has increased from an average of 8.25 in 2nd half of 2015 to 13.3 this year. In 2017, so far 2 out of 4 land tenders were awarded to foreign bidders.

    Keen competition from cash-rich foreign counterparts are forcing local developers to bid aggressively. If they are conservative in bidding, they will be easily outbid by China developers who are eager to take a share of the Singapore property market.

    A recent report by Cushman & Wakefield mentioned that developers are paying an average of 29 percent more for residential sites over comparable sites sold in the past 5 years ago. In the 2nd half of 2016, developers were paying only 13 percent on average in premiums.

    Land prices have shot up. But property prices are falling. How badly are developers’ margins affected?

    In 2009, developer margin stands at an average of 35.7 percent. It drops to 11.8 percent in 2014 and 4 percent for ECs.



    Are developers committing suicide?

    Back in August 2013, City Development Limited’s Kwek Leng Beng told the media that “if the Qualifying Certificate is there, it will be suicidal to keep tendering at high prices just because we want a land bank.”

    According to the Qualifying Certificate regulation, new projects must be sold within 2 years after obtaining the Temporary Occupation Permit, or face extension charges on the unsold units. If developers can’t sell all units in their project after 5 years, they have to pay Additional Buyer Stamp Duty on the remaining units.

    With a gross floor area of 954,327 sq ft, the Stirling Road site can be developed into a maximum of 1,110 units. The bidding price of S$1.003 billion translates into S$1,050.71 psf.

    The average construction cost of a mass market condominium is $350 psf. Assuming the developer takes 30 percent of the total of land cost plus construction cost (i.e. 30% of $1,050 + $350 = $420 psf) to cover all necessary expenses and a minimum profit margin, the developer would have to sell at a lowest launch price of $1,820 psf ($1,050 + $350 + $420) in order to make a profit.

    This is an aggressive jump from the nearby new project Queen’s Peak, which was released last November with a launch price of $1,580 psf.

    One reason why the Queen’s Peak was selling well is largely the result of strategic pricing by developer MCC Land (HY Realty). It was also launched at the right time when homebuyers believed that prices have come down to a reasonable level for such a good location.

    Will the Stirling Road site share the same luck? Who can guarantee the market condition by the time the project is ready to launch?


    What is the potential price to pay?

    The last price record for a residential site was created 20 years ago when Hong Kong tycoon Li Ka-shing’s Cheung Kong Holdings paid $683 million or $456 psf for the 99-year Costa del Sol site on Bayshore Road in January 1997.

    What happened to the developer after they paid the top price?

    Not long after Cheung Kong won the land auction, Singapore was hit hardly by the Asian Financial Crisis. This was followed by the dot.com burst, SARS outbreak and economic recession in Singapore in the mid-2000s.

    When Costa del Sol was launched in May 2000, the initial launch price was $765 psf. Remember the developer told the media and early buyers that selling prices would stay the same in subsequent launch phases even if property prices fall?

    By February 2005, prices had been lowered to $650 psf for the re-launch of about 600 units.

    After the project’s completion in 2003, for several years blocks of units in the project were still unsold and left vacant. It was not until August 2007 that Hotel Properties’ Ong Beng Seng and his family helped to clear an entire block of 180 remaining units that the 906-unit project finally concluded its 10-year episode.

    In the Stirling Road record-breaking auction, MCL Land is the second highest bidder who lost to the Chinese developer at the price of S$925.7 million.

    Is it a terrible loss or a blessing in disguise? Well, only time can tell.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Southbank
    Posts
    9,573

    Default

    Suggest paying a visit to Forest City to know what is a Chinese Developer than he or she will know is a blessing.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    4,035

    Default

    I think she has not done business with Chinese before.

    In even the most tough conditions as SARS plus dot com plus AFC, developers also do not do free service. It's better to wind up than to do free or losing services.

    Reduce profits yes, by increasing competition. Free business, what do you think as we switch to 72% HDB, 28 % private property?
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    484

    Default

    to me it's obvious, propsoul is trying to talk the market down. she's panicking that big timers are buying up land at a 29% premium to a few years ago. Like that , how can prices crash 50% for her to go and buy up all those distressed D9,10,15 properties.

    it's vested interest as she is now sitting on a pile made during the last recession but finds that her cash pile can currently barely only afford one good property , not 3.

    in a way it's ironic that someone nicknamed "property soul" can be so negative about property.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Southbank
    Posts
    9,573

    Default China is building a city bigger than Washington on 4 islands in Malaysia


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    495

    Default

    Another Hidden Price:

    With margins coming down significantly, the end consumers may end up suffering as developers may try to cut corners in terms of building quality...

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    3,721

    Default

    There is no blessing. Shrinking margin is manifested and witnessed in poor and near atrocious workmanship and finishing in the new condos.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Southbank
    Posts
    9,573

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by august View Post
    There is no blessing. Shrinking margin is manifested and witnessed in poor and near atrocious workmanship and finishing in the new condos.
    Margin big or small developer also give the same shit.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Southbank
    Posts
    9,573

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tonymontana View Post
    to me it's obvious, propsoul is trying to talk the market down. she's panicking that big timers are buying up land at a 29% premium to a few years ago. Like that , how can prices crash 50% for her to go and buy up all those distressed D9,10,15 properties.

    it's vested interest as she is now sitting on a pile made during the last recession but finds that her cash pile can currently barely only afford one good property , not 3.

    in a way it's ironic that someone nicknamed "property soul" can be so negative about property.
    One of my friend also did the same thing, sell his EC and wait for the crash.

    Now still waiting.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    495

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    One of my friend also did the same thing, sell his EC and wait for the crash.

    Now still waiting.
    Sold how long ago? Paying rents in the meantime?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    495

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by august View Post
    There is no blessing. Shrinking margin is manifested and witnessed in poor and near atrocious workmanship and finishing in the new condos.
    Exactly my worries.

    With bigger margins, maybe not so desperate and cut less corners.

    With smaller margins, you may imagine...

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    4,035

    Default

    Great patience.

    My friend Beh Lun sold EC in 2010 bought cluster landed in 2015.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    One of my friend also did the same thing, sell his EC and wait for the crash.

    Now still waiting.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    495

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    Suggest paying a visit to Forest City to know what is a Chinese Developer than he or she will know is a blessing.
    Forest City maybe a time bomb...

    https://www.theedgeproperty.com.sg/c...ng-forest-city

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    693

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tonymontana View Post
    to me it's obvious, propsoul is trying to talk the market down. she's panicking that big timers are buying up land at a 29% premium to a few years ago. Like that , how can prices crash 50% for her to go and buy up all those distressed D9,10,15 properties.

    it's vested interest as she is now sitting on a pile made during the last recession but finds that her cash pile can currently barely only afford one good property , not 3.

    in a way it's ironic that someone nicknamed "property soul" can be so negative about property.
    Yah, she has been deligently talking down on the market on the pretext of giving good advise to buyers.

    But, I kind of agree that the way the developer is bidding, it seems like they are desperate and willing to gamble big.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    1,763

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stl67 View Post
    Yah, she has been deligently talking down on the market on the pretext of giving good advise to buyers.

    But, I kind of agree that the way the developer is bidding, it seems like they are desperate and willing to gamble big.
    Or the Chinese want cooling measures to remain...so local developers chokes and their JB projects has significant price advantage.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    693

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by indomie View Post
    Or the Chinese want cooling measures to remain...so local developers chokes and their JB projects has significant price advantage.
    Also possible since JB projects will look so much cheaper compare to SG. But people like myself will not invest into JB at least for now. JB has plenty of land, public transport is still so bad, security issues.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Southbank
    Posts
    9,573

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by anythingwhatever View Post
    Did you go and visit?

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    171

    Default

    Veronica is probably closer to the ground (in understanding buyer and seller sentiment) and the top (developer sentiment) than any of us.

    Don't know how anyone can talk this bid as bullish development for the wider market. If anything it held the hand of the government who repeatedly said that CMs will not be relaxed until there is "meaningful correction". Where is the correction when new launches selling at record (and irrational) prices?

    The killer of the CMs is not ABSD but SSD; SSD discouraged the needed liquidity for proper price discovery. In fact, SSD is the culprit that drove buyers to new launches. This is the setup for this market.

    As said before, this government is clueless.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    4,035

    Default

    Firstly, Veronica should have been off the employment market for a very long time. The investors she works closely with are all multiple property owners who do not work but are looking to buy (my sensing only). Based on my sensing, she is unlikely to be close to the ground, especially for buyers side, but she is close to a certain type of investor, the type that Govt is not keen to have many more of...

    I am not too sure whether your SSD argument holds water. As far as the bulk of home owners and investors are concerned, ABSD is the main killer. It still is a killer for me moving forward, as I am not selling despite clearing SSD period, and looking to secure likely my last local property.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuho View Post
    Veronica is probably closer to the ground (in understanding buyer and seller sentiment) and the top (developer sentiment) than any of us.

    Don't know how anyone can talk this bid as bullish development for the wider market. If anything it held the hand of the government who repeatedly said that CMs will not be relaxed until there is "meaningful correction". Where is the correction when new launches selling at record (and irrational) prices?

    The killer of the CMs is not ABSD but SSD; SSD discouraged the needed liquidity for proper price discovery. In fact, SSD is the culprit that drove buyers to new launches. This is the setup for this market.

    As said before, this government is clueless.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    484

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuho View Post
    Veronica is probably closer to the ground (in understanding buyer and seller sentiment) and the top (developer sentiment) than any of us.

    Don't know how anyone can talk this bid as bullish development for the wider market. If anything it held the hand of the government who repeatedly said that CMs will not be relaxed until there is "meaningful correction". Where is the correction when new launches selling at record (and irrational) prices?

    The killer of the CMs is not ABSD but SSD; SSD discouraged the needed liquidity for proper price discovery. In fact, SSD is the culprit that drove buyers to new launches. This is the setup for this market.

    As said before, this government is clueless.
    Nobody is saying vina has no skill, experience and/or indepth market knowledge. What is obvious is her incessant talking down of the market being not altruistic in nature, but a desire to buy up properties from distressed fire sales to make a killing.

    Her entry is probably another 50% correction. if that happens, majority of us can look forward to working till 80.

    SSD is not the killer, as what kelonguni write above. ABSD and TDSR is. especially TDSR.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    171

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    Firstly, Veronica should have been off the employment market for a very long time. The investors she works closely with are all multiple property owners who do not work but are looking to buy (my sensing only). Based on my sensing, she is unlikely to be close to the ground, especially for buyers side, but she is close to a certain type of investor, the type that Govt is not keen to have many more of...

    I am not too sure whether your SSD argument holds water. As far as the bulk of home owners and investors are concerned, ABSD is the main killer. It still is a killer for me moving forward, as I am not selling despite clearing SSD period, and looking to secure likely my last local property.
    Everyone has a vested interest, same with Veronica. Same as for you and me. I am not saying that she is totally objective in all her views, but her view on this bid is correct (for me).

    The good thing is viewpoints do not generally move market, except the government 's.

    Not saying ABSD is not a deterrent, but it is a lesser evil of the two. Upfront tax does not deter a rising market, just look at HK, Australia etc. It is the same for during a bull market, there will still be buyers even when prices has risen 10, 20, or even 100%.

    Policy drives the behaviour of buyers, in this case SSD drives buyers to new launches. This is the setup and developers love this setup. If the purchase is for investment, then isn't it better to buy a resale (lower price generally when compared with new launches) that can generate the investment income straight away?

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    484

    Default

    About the SSD, vina was absolutely correct. yes, i do read her . relaxation of SSD stimulates selling. Govt is saying.. you want to buy property make sure you really can afford (TDSR), and pay hefty tax (ABSD)
    if you want to exit market, i make it easier for u.
    So relaxation of SSD is not a signal by the govt to go buy new launches. To actually signal that, the govt would relax ABSD.
    The uptake in new launches is merely a sign of pent up demand by the public who see the relaxation of SSD as a govt willingness to tweak policy.
    Last edited by tonymontana; 23-05-17 at 11:05.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    514

    Default

    There are many different types of investors. The CMs of today is unprecedented and no one has ever witnessed of such lengthy, engineered 'depression' of the market. Applying any previous form of experience (could be decades worth which I am not discounting) based on current govt intervened ones is speculative at best. I find some investors keenly applied outdated views on the current market and find themselves being frustrated about reading of the market. For example, in the showroom visits I go to, I always find them saying City Fringe prices to be exorbitant at $1,600 to $1,900 psf ... till it crashes in a crisis and then they go in. I just hope time is on their side as massive market correction is based on current prices.

    Is it illogical to view a current depressed market with a less positive view to get more eye-ball on your content or is it harder to apply positive light on a negative downturn market?

    It is the government policy and I say this without compunction. No one can be depended upon for CMs news. It can come any minute, day, month or very likely years ahead. No one is asking any investor to put all the monies in properties since the wait can be so 'stressful' and potentially long before entering the market. One thing I am certain is with each second passing we all get older and our children too.

    One thing I must emphasize with my 2 cents worth of analysis is that the local government is not at all clueless. If they are, our properties would not have been worth what it is today since our 3rd world, backwater 1950s days.

    PropVestor

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    171

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tonymontana View Post
    About the SSD, vina was absolutely correct. yes, i do read her . relaxation of SSD stimulates selling. Govt is saying.. you want to buy property make sure you really can afford (TDSR), and pay hefty tax (ABSD)
    if you want to exit market, i make it easier for u.
    So relaxation of SSD is not a signal by the govt to go buy new launches. To actually signal that, the govt would relax ABSD.
    The uptake in new launches is merely a sign of pent up demand by the public who see the relaxation of SSD as a govt willingness to tweak policy.
    The way the government applied the SSD revision, to me is just ridiculous. The revision should apply to new and previous purchases where SSD encumbered.

    Take a guess how this revision drives purchases for the next quarter.

    Will sales volume go up or down?

  25. #25
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    4,035

    Default

    Please kindly explain how SSD revision has any real, direct impact. People who bought in 2012 and some of the buyers in 2013 can sell today without SSD but they are generally in no rush to sell.

    The real deal is in TDSR revisions.

    SSD has no real impact other than signalling the willingness to adjust and calibrate to market conditions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuho View Post
    The way the government applied the SSD revision, to me is just ridiculous. The revision should apply to new and previous purchases where SSD encumbered.

    Take a guess how this revision drives purchases for the next quarter.

    Will sales volume go up or down?
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    566

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuho View Post
    The killer of the CMs is not ABSD but SSD; SSD discouraged the needed liquidity for proper price discovery. In fact, SSD is the culprit that drove buyers to new launches. This is the setup for this market.

    As said before, this government is clueless.
    You are sharp, with SSD, it is no longer possible to just flip a ppty within hours of getting hold of the OTP. And with that, it denies the exuberance seen in the last ppty bull run. But I wouldn't be so quick to suggest the gov is clueless though....it kept the price from running away like during the last bull.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    171

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    Please kindly explain how SSD revision has any real, direct impact. People who bought in 2012 and some of the buyers in 2013 can sell today without SSD but they are generally in no rush to sell.

    The real deal is in TDSR revisions.

    SSD has no real impact other than signalling the willingness to adjust and calibrate to market conditions.
    I am sure you can get it with enough thoughts.

    If no impact there is no recent revision liao.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    4,035

    Default

    I only trust data. Switch to Table mode to see the actual amounts. Based on actual data, the amount of SSD collected from 2013 to 2015 ranged from 23-48 million, with the peak (48 million) at 2013 and about 30 million for all other years displayed.

    ABSD was 3 million (2011), 762 million (2012), 1.5 billion (2013), 920 million (2014), and 788 million (2015).

    Look at those values and tell me again, SSD more crucial or ABSD more crucial. Please give it careful thought and not pluck feathers from thin air.

    https://data.gov.sg/dataset/stamp-du...perties-annual

    The main stimulation for this tweak is in TDSR...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuho View Post
    I am sure you can get it with enough thoughts.

    If no impact there is no recent revision liao.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Kelonguni; 23-05-17 at 13:16.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    171

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelonguni View Post
    I only trust data. Switch to Table mode to see the actual amounts. Based on actual data, the amount of SSD collected from 2013 to 2015 ranged from 23-48 million, with the peak (48 million) at 2013 and about 30 million for all other years displayed.

    ABSD was 3 million (2011), 762 million (2012), 1.5 billion (2013), 920 million (2014), and 788 million (2015).

    Look at those values and tell me again, SSD more crucial or ABSD more crucial. Please give it careful thought and not pluck feathers from thin air.

    https://data.gov.sg/dataset/stamp-du...perties-annual

    The main stimulation for this tweak is in TDSR...
    Are you lost?

    I said:

    1) ABSD does not deter purchases
    2) SSD drove purchases to new launches
    3) New launches are irrationally priced; not all of them but the recent ones certainly are.

    The data supported 1) and 2), no?

    To sell a unit purchased at new launch yesteryear, it is a resale transaction tomorrow. No?

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    693

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HP65 View Post
    You are sharp, with SSD, it is no longer possible to just flip a ppty within hours of getting hold of the OTP. And with that, it denies the exuberance seen in the last ppty bull run. But I wouldn't be so quick to suggest the gov is clueless though....it kept the price from running away like during the last bull.
    Can still lar, just add "and anomaly" in the OTP. But must be quick.

Similar Threads

  1. The Fed could be forced into dizzying handbrake turn
    By reporter2 in forum Coffeeshop Talk
    Replies: 0
    -: 12-01-22, 09:54
  2. HSBC's political tightrope act opens up internal fault lines
    By reporter2 in forum Coffeeshop Talk
    Replies: 0
    -: 08-06-20, 15:59
  3. Battered residential developers forced to slash prices to evade hefty fines
    By princess_morbucks in forum Singapore Private Condominium Property Discussion and News
    Replies: 0
    -: 27-11-14, 21:07
  4. Forced Sale & Beyond
    By Reisor in forum En Bloc Discussion and News
    Replies: 6
    -: 16-04-13, 10:32
  5. Many forced to downgrade after going for en bloc sale
    By mr funny in forum En Bloc Discussion and News
    Replies: 2
    -: 20-06-07, 12:23

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •