The Parc (D5, Freehold, Chip Eng Seng & Lehman Brothers)

[stalingrad]

1000 units there, its hard to control. So no difference if there is any security or not.

any tom, dick and harry can get in and out any time they wish. the security is for show only.

[rattydrama]

any tom, dick and harry can get in and out any time they wish. the security is for show only.

pay to see show, better engage chiobu lah, more motivated to go home. (jokes only no offence pls)

[teddybear]

Talk about security. Nowsdays, many condos have some strange and weird designs without any regards to security -:
1) E.g. Private lift, no lobby and sheltered area on L1 (as though everyone sure drive and will go up from basement carpark), stand outside your private lift and when raining you will get drenched. (better get your kids to bring umbrella everyday!).
2) Even worse, you get into pass the security and you can go straight up to any level you like.
3) Many pedestrian entry and exit gates - Most prone to security lapses as no security to watch out. Have seen some condos people just wait outside and follow those people with access cards in (then go to use their facilities!).
4) As follow from (3), facilities (like gym and function room etc) don't need access card to access! Anybody who get in can help themselves to all facilities!

I went there not too long ago to view some units. This project is indeed very HDB-like. Not to mention crammier than normal well spaced HDBs. It is elevated so the breeze is OK, but do you know any one who manages to get past security (easy to do, dress appropriately and stroll in like a resident, chances are they won't check) willk have direct access to your unit?

Even mass market condos have a 2nd layer of security, that of an access gate at the basement carpark and first floor where you need a keycard to enter (or punch in the unit number)

I won't pay 1000psf to enjoy HDB level security, so I gave this a miss.

[proud owner]

1000 units there, its hard to control. So no difference if there is any security or not.

in the morning, all going to work and going to school ..the scene will be like a factory at the end of day ...ALL RUSHING OUT

in the evening, all coming home from work and shool... the scene will be like a factory in the morning ...ALL RUSHING IN

the above is a description from a friend who live in a condo of 600 over units ...

so i can imagine if there are 1000 units ...

almost like 2 factories

[stalingrad]

Talk about security. Nowsdays, many condos have some strange and weird designs without any regards to security -:
1) E.g. Private lift, no lobby and sheltered area on L1 (as though everyone sure drive and will go up from basement carpark), stand outside your private lift and when raining you will get drenched. (better get your kids to bring umbrella everyday!).
2) Even worse, you get into pass the security and you can go straight up to any level you like.
3) Many pedestrian entry and exit gates - Most prone to security lapses as no security to watch out. Have seen some condos people just wait outside and follow those people with access cards in (then go to use their facilities!).
4) As follow from (3), facilities (like gym and function room etc) don't need access card to access! Anybody who get in can help themselves to all facilities!

not true for my condo. if you don't have one of those electronic keys, you will have to pee under a tree. the toilet has a key point too. the gym is the same. only residents can use it. the pool? if you can swim without changing first, you can swim in it.

but I see your point. a lot of condos are like what you described. I don't like condos near universities. the student renters take their friends in and hog the pool all day. like varsity park.

[teddybear]

Interesting description...........

in the morning, all going to work and going to school ..the scene will be like a factory at the end of day ...ALL RUSHING OUT

in the evening, all coming home from work and shool... the scene will be like a factory in the morning ...ALL RUSHING IN

the above is a description from a friend who live in a condo of 600 over units ...

so i can imagine if there are 1000 units ...

almost like 2 factories

[teddybear]

Toilets also need keys? The first time I heard of (never seen any condo like that before)! You must be very busy when holding any function or BBQ because have to keep opening the toilet doors for your friends & their kids!

not true for my condo. if you don't have one of those electronic keys, you will have to pee under a tree. the toilet has a key point too. the gym is the same. only residents can use it. the pool? if you can swim without changing first, you can swim in it.

but I see your point. a lot of condos are like what you described.

[DC33_2008]

Are they worried that people from nearby HDB flats may use the pools and facilities? I know some condos have this kind of problem.

[stalingrad]

Are they worried that people from nearby HDB flats may use the pools and facilities? I know some condos have this kind of problem.

that is a very serious problem for the parc. with so many residents, it is tough for security to spot intruders.

as for direct access to any unit after passing security, this really worries me.

[DC33_2008]

They may need a resident pass here with photo. It is being practice is some condos.

that is a very serious problem for the parc. with so many residents, it is tough for security to spot intruders.

as for direct access to any unit after passing security, this really worries me.

[rattydrama]

I view those with 400 units just last week, no lift to be seen in the MSCP and no proper signage. I have to walk and walk in order to find the unit I am viewing. There is no rest area for me to seat. The lobby is small, no open view which make me more tired.

I think 200+ units with big 3 bedders/4 bedders / penthouses would be nice. At least no overcrowding issues and you feel better to see few people walking around and all the greens grow well. That is quality life and a true condo stay. Security guards are also happier to serve you.

in the morning, all going to work and going to school ..the scene will be like a factory at the end of day ...ALL RUSHING OUT

in the evening, all coming home from work and shool... the scene will be like a factory in the morning ...ALL RUSHING IN

the above is a description from a friend who live in a condo of 600 over units ...

so i can imagine if there are 1000 units ...

almost like 2 factories

[mantrix]

I view those with 400 units just last week, no lift to be seen in the MSCP and no proper signage. I have to walk and walk in order to find the unit I am viewing. There is no rest area for me to seat. The lobby is small, no open view which make me more tired.

I think 200+ units with big 3 bedders/4 bedders / penthouses would be nice. At least no overcrowding issues and you feel better to see few people walking around and all the greens grow well. That is quality life and a true condo stay. Security guards are also happier to serve you.

For me, 100 to 300 units is just nice.

[teddybear]

That is the reason why buy private property must ensure no HDB flats within (reasonable) walking distance... I have heard of such incidents for those heartland private properties before. Not only uninvited visitors, you also get invited or presumably visiting family members, relatives, and friends (from nearby HDB flats) visiting the residents in these heartland private condos and then helping themselves to the facilities (since visiting residents here and granted right to use the facilities by residents mah)! What can the security guards do about these people (even if they care to interfere)?
That is main reason why such condos are so so crowded over weekends (they are already crowded enough with the residents from so many units in the estate and imagine these residents get "visitors" to use the facilities on weekend?).

Are they worried that people from nearby HDB flats may use the pools and facilities? I know some condos have this kind of problem.

[proud owner]

That is the reason why buy private property must ensure no HDB flats within (reasonable) walking distance... I have heard of such incidents for those heartland private properties before. Not only uninvited visitors, you also get invited or presumably visiting family members, relatives, and friends (from nearby HDB flats) visiting the residents in these heartland private condos and then helping themselves to the facilities (since visiting residents here and granted right to use the facilities by residents mah)! What can the security guards do about these people (even if they care to interfere)?
That is main reason why such condos are so so crowded over weekends (they are already crowded enough with the residents from so many units in the estate and imagine these residents get "visitors" to use the facilities on weekend?).

i ever said before ..why buy private when its near HDB ?

might as well buy HDB right ?

people suan me leh

last time i stayed in a condo ... one side all HDB ... alot of upgraders .. who still have friends/relatives/good neighbours living in the HDB ..and they allowed them to 'walk' in and use pool/sauna/park car etc ..

simply by giving them the unit number and the security only ask for unit number ... and let them in

[rattydrama]

Those condos which is mainly stay or rented to foreigners even thou near to HDBs may not have many invited guests.

[amk]

... do you know any one who manages to get past security willk have direct access to your unit?

u mean there is no access control in the lift lobby ?? really ? That will be really strange....

[Wild Falcon]

300-450 units should be fine, esp those older condos with huge land area. As for signages, too much of them can be ugly as well. No harm getting lost once in a while lah. Sure, a small development with only 1 block of 100 units means u will not get lost since land area is so small but it also means u have less communal space. Less units usually means higher maintenance for each unit with less facilities. So in short, doesn't mean 200 units condo definitely better than 350 units. U really have to look at each development individually. But I agree anything more than 500 is a no go.

[Wild Falcon]

Has nothing to do with near HDB or not. Usually the new condos everyone very gian go try every facility and ask friends to visit as everyone move in at the same time. Its common knowledge that new developments facilities r more heavily used. Ang moh also like to hang around swimming pool every weekend. But if u visit some of the older developments, the novelty of the facilities would have worn off and most facilities will be grossly under utilized.

Those condos which is mainly stay or rented to foreigners even thou near to HDBs may not have many invited guests.

[mantrix]

u mean there is no access control in the lift lobby ?? really ? That will be really strange....

Yup - like I said - really like HDB

[devilplate]

Yup - like I said - really like HDB

isit most condos have access card lift system? no right?

[rattydrama]

some that I visited do not have it. The agent brought me straight to the door. The only stoppage is the security guard. I pity him cos agent didn't give me the unit number but he is required to record down prior to entry.

The guard was angry and need to be cool down. He told me not the first time. I stayed there for 3 minutes to get the unit number from the agent. I realized there are many cars in and out during peak hours. Also residents walking in and out, pass by the security and the security didnt even take a look who they are but busy lifting up & down the barrier to ensure residents' cars are entered smoothly while visitors' cars are being recorded and directed properly.

These are the little things that made me realized big mass market projects not so fun to stay in after all.

[mantrix]

isit most condos have access card lift system? no right?

no he was referring to the card entry access before the lift lobby - most condos have a gate with hydraulic spring that closes the gate (with electromagnet) so no TMD can get to the life so easily...unless they climb over the gate

[teddybear]

With >=120 family-size units (not MM units), there will already be reasonable land area for communal facilities, don't need 400. In the past, >200 units is already considered too big! Nowsadays, >400 units is the norm.
With >=120 family-size units and land area of >= 60k and if can build up to plot ratio of 2.8 means there will still be sufficient land for a 30m x 6m swimming pool, gym, function room, tennis court, vehicles pickup & drop off area at the main entrance, children playground and land all around for landscaping + extra place for kids to cycle around + underground car park (ample of it, don't have to fight for lots). What more do you need? In fact, it is the more facilities you have that you need to pay more in maintenance! The more units there are, the faster the wear-off and lift gets breakdown more easily and the more you need in maintenance! As such, too many units (especially MM units) also end up paying high maintenance (for maintaining the facilities!). Also, the more visitors to the estate to use the facilities (e.g. those heartland condos), the higher the wear-out rate and hence end up owners have to pay much much more in maintenance than necessary! So my conclusion is that any condo <= 200 units and with above-mentioned facilities is much much better than those >400 units!

300-450 units should be fine, esp those older condos with huge land area. As for signages, too much of them can be ugly as well. No harm getting lost once in a while lah. Sure, a small development with only 1 block of 100 units means u will not get lost since land area is so small but it also means u have less communal space. Less units usually means higher maintenance for each unit with less facilities. So in short, doesn't mean 200 units condo definitely better than 350 units. U really have to look at each development individually. But I agree anything more than 500 is a no go.

[teddybear]

My friend's new condo after 1+ years still so crowded during weekend! BBQ fully booked once it is ready for booking after 12 mid-night! (can book BBQ pits only 1 month in advance). Swimming is so crowded! Gym is so crowded! Function rooms always fully booked and have to wait for booking at 12 mid-night (just like BBQ pits)! Don't think the interest will worn off if 1+ years still cannot wear off?

Has nothing to do with near HDB or not. Usually the new condos everyone very gian go try every facility and ask friends to visit as everyone move in at the same time. Its common knowledge that new developments facilities r more heavily used. Ang moh also like to hang around swimming pool every weekend. But if u visit some of the older developments, the novelty of the facilities would have worn off and most facilities will be grossly under utilized.

[rattydrama]

Condo with less than 100 units could be too costly for maintenance and might not get willing buyers to buy over if there are too few transactions recorded. 100 plus units to 200 plus units (not MMs) would be just nice for stay. Even when you put up for sale, there is less competition yet still able to invite potential buyers to commit. Usually this type of 200+ unit project has sales every month or every other month and not once a while.

Teddybear, thanks for sharing. What you said is exactly what I see when I went for house viewing of 200++ units. Residents are sparingly scattered, some are jogging round the estates, few are swimming (expatriates) and kids are playing @ play ground or in front of their units. There is no rush to book function rooms (the booking form pasted outside the club house) and facilities there are surprising well kept even though it is more than 10 years.

With >=120 family-size units (not MM units), there will already be reasonable land area for communal facilities, don't need 400. In the past, >200 units is already considered too big! Nowsadays, >400 units is the norm.
With >=120 family-size units and land area of >= 60k and if can build up to plot ratio of 2.8 means there will still be sufficient land for a 30m x 6m swimming pool, gym, function room, tennis court, vehicles pickup & drop off area at the main entrance, children playground and land all around for landscaping + extra place for kids to cycle around + underground car park (ample of it, don't have to fight for lots). What more do you need? In fact, it is the more facilities you have that you need to pay more in maintenance! The more units there are, the faster the wear-off and lift gets breakdown more easily and the more you need in maintenance! As such, too many units (especially MM units) also end up paying high maintenance (for maintaining the facilities!). Also, the more visitors to the estate to use the facilities (e.g. those heartland condos), the higher the wear-out rate and hence end up owners have to pay much much more in maintenance than necessary! So my conclusion is that any condo <= 200 units and with above-mentioned facilities is much much better than those >400 units!

[DC33_2008]

Some card access system enables user to tap the card on a panel in the lift which allows them to that particular floor. They cannot go to any other floors as the internal staircase has fire-escape doors which allow people to access it and not out of it until one reaches the ground floor. I thought this is quite a good system.

no he was referring to the card entry access before the lift lobby - most condos have a gate with hydraulic spring that closes the gate (with electromagnet) so no TMD can get to the life so easily...unless they climb over the gate

[devilplate]

Some card access system enables user to tap the card on a panel in the lift which allows them to that particular floor. They cannot go to any other floors as the internal staircase has fire-escape doors which allow people to access it and not out of it until one reaches the ground floor. I thought this is quite a good system.

eg: the shelford

but smtimes security too tight aso cause some inconvenience

[teddybear]

Yes I believe so too.
Major problem with too many units is that the facilities and equipment (e.g. gym equipment, lifts, etc) wears out much faster than the MA can get them repaired (arranging for repairmen to come to troubleshoot and repair takes time). As such, the estate will be in bad state unless the MA is super efficient and you pay vendors/repairmen for express service (which means you need to pay much more to the MA, vendors/repairmen & hence higher maintenance fees!). This will be even more obvious as the estate starts to age (after the newness wears off).

Condo with less than 100 units could be too costly for maintenance and might not get willing buyers to buy over if there are too few transactions recorded. 100 plus units to 200 plus units (not MMs) would be just nice for stay. Even when you put up for sale, there is less competition yet still able to invite potential buyers to commit. Usually this type of 200+ unit project has sales every month or every other month and not once a while.

Teddybear, thanks for sharing. What you said is exactly what I see when I went for house viewing of 200++ units. Residents are sparingly scattered, some are jogging round the estates, few are swimming (expatriates) and kids are playing @ play ground or in front of their units. There is no rush to book function rooms (the booking form pasted outside the club house) and facilities there are surprising well kept even though it is more than 10 years.

[teddybear]

Not nice because if I have siblings / relatives /friends living in different floor, I have to go to ground floor, exit the gated lobby, press their door bell, then wait for them to allow us to enable the lift to access their level?
It is sort of over-done. A gated and sheltered lift lobby but with free lift access to any floor is probably better for communal living (residents who are family members and friends and good neighbours can visit each other more easily). Such over-done security system probably more for those condo with too many units! (For 100+ units, no need for these). Also, lift system with those security-access features are also much more expensive to maintain (more maintenance fees!).

Some card access system enables user to tap the card on a panel in the lift which allows them to that particular floor. They cannot go to any other floors as the internal staircase has fire-escape doors which allow people to access it and not out of it until one reaches the ground floor. I thought this is quite a good system.

[stalingrad]

some lift security is so confusing and may kill people. I once went to visit someone at hillington green. after we entered the unit, my wife asked me to go down to the car to pick up something. my friend explained in detail how to get in the lift, where to stop, and how to get out, and how to get back up. The instructions were so convoluted, by the time I entered the lift, everything was already out of the "window." to make the long story short, not only did I fail to fetch the thing my wife asked me to fetch, I couldn't even go back up, and had to stand in the rain for a long time, and got totally soaked. I could have gotten pneumonia.