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Thread: Couples with 1.5 millions complain that they are low income

  1. #1
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    Default Couples with 1.5 millions complain that they are low income

    My wife and I are a low income grad couple. We have two children in secondary schools. We are both 49 years old and only earning $160k pa in total. Our paid up condo is in the OCR and is valued at only $900k. We drive a small non continental car.

    Our net worth (including our condo and car) is only $1.5m in total. This is very low when we compare with our friends and relatives.

    Life is not so easy. We worry about our finances. Do we have to work till we are in our 70s? What can we do to prepare for retirement?

    This couple is considered LOW INCOME? :O #Shocking

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    LOL. Where u got this article?
    Quote Originally Posted by irisng View Post
    My wife and I are a low income grad couple. We have two children in secondary schools. We are both 49 years old and only earning $160k pa in total. Our paid up condo is in the OCR and is valued at only $900k. We drive a small non continental car.

    Our net worth (including our condo and car) is only $1.5m in total. This is very low when we compare with our friends and relatives.

    Life is not so easy. We worry about our finances. Do we have to work till we are in our 70s? What can we do to prepare for retirement?

    This couple is considered LOW INCOME? :O #Shocking

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    Quote Originally Posted by irisng View Post
    My wife and I are a low income grad couple. We have two children in secondary schools. We are both 49 years old and only earning $160k pa in total. Our paid up condo is in the OCR and is valued at only $900k. We drive a small non continental car.

    Our net worth (including our condo and car) is only $1.5m in total. This is very low when we compare with our friends and relatives.

    Life is not so easy. We worry about our finances. Do we have to work till we are in our 70s? What can we do to prepare for retirement?

    This couple is considered LOW INCOME? :O #Shocking
    They are not wrong.

    Our paid up condo is in the OCR - this is a liability and not an asset, every month need to pay maintenance and yearly property Tax.

    We drive a small non continental car. - This is another liability.

    We have two children in secondary schools. - still a long way to go.

    Don't understand why people like to paid up. ???????????

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    They are waiting for the private property price to drop another 12 to 32% to increase their asset purchases I think.

    They are aiming for another full cash and CPF settlement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    They are not wrong.

    Our paid up condo is in the OCR - this is a liability and not an asset, every month need to pay maintenance and yearly property Tax.

    We drive a small non continental car. - This is another liability.

    We have two children in secondary schools. - still a long way to go.

    Don't understand why people like to paid up. ???????????
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

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    Quote Originally Posted by star View Post
    LOL. Where u got this article?
    Someone posted on the facebook. I was trying to locate the source but couldn't find it now, will try again when I'm free to see whether I can find it or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by irisng View Post
    Someone posted on the facebook. I was trying to locate the source but couldn't find it now, will try again when I'm free to see whether I can find it or not.
    Oh, I found it, is from "True Singaporeans - All Singapore Stuff"

    http://www.allsingaporestuff.com/art...w-income-spore

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    Quote Originally Posted by irisng View Post
    Oh, I found it, is from "True Singaporeans - All Singapore Stuff"

    http://www.allsingaporestuff.com/art...w-income-spore
    900K OCR Condo. 100K car.

    500K Cash, equities (and other liquid instruments) and CPF.

    Low income???
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

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    May I ask, what's the amount consider low, mid & high annual income?

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    Quote Originally Posted by irisng View Post
    My wife and I are a low income grad couple. We have two children in secondary schools. We are both 49 years old and only earning $160k pa in total. Our paid up condo is in the OCR and is valued at only $900k. We drive a small non continental car.

    Our net worth (including our condo and car) is only $1.5m in total. This is very low when we compare with our friends and relatives.

    Life is not so easy. We worry about our finances. Do we have to work till we are in our 70s? What can we do to prepare for retirement?

    This couple is considered LOW INCOME? :O #Shocking

    What is the matter with the poor is Poverty; what is the matter with the rich is Uselessness.

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    It all in the mind.

    http://www.idealistrevolution.org/a-...what-happened/

    One day a very wealthy father took his son on a trip to the country for the sole purpose of showing his son how it was to be poor. They spent a few days and nights on the farm of what would be considered a very poor family.

    After their return from the trip, the father asked his son how he liked the trip. “It was great, Dad,” the son replied. “Did you see how poor people can be?” the father asked. “Oh Yeah,” said the son.

    “So what did you learn from the trip?” asked the father. The son answered, “I saw that we have one dog and they had four. We have a pool that reaches to the middle of our garden and they have a creek that has no end. We have imported lanterns in our garden and they have the stars at night. Our patio reaches to the front yard and they have the whole horizon.

    We have a small piece of land to live on and they have fields that go beyond our sight. We have servants who serve us, but they serve others.

    We buy our food, but they grow theirs. We have walls around our property to protect us, they have friends to protect them.” The boy’s father was speechless. Then his son added, “It showed me how poor we are.”

    Too many times we forget what we have and concentrate on what we don’t have. What is one person’s worthless object is another’s prize possession. It is all based on one’s perspective.

    I’m thankful for what I have, not jealous for what I don’t. The more I understand about where I am, and understand what it is I want and need for my family and my children, the better I am able to make good decisions as a Husband and a Parent. When I’m aware of how my decisions affect others, I’m better able to make ones that are not only good for me and my family, but good for my community, my region, my country, and even our planet. Sometimes it takes the perspective of a child to remind us what’s important.

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    Quote Originally Posted by irisng View Post
    Oh, I found it, is from "True Singaporeans - All Singapore Stuff"

    http://www.allsingaporestuff.com/art...w-income-spore
    No Iris, the above was only posted yesterday. The real origin is this :

    http://forums.salary.sg/income-jobs/...html#post73847

    that is a thread full of BS and fake posts. This is all rubbish. You can even find ppl who claim they earn 500k pa and yet asking "are we doing ok" kind of posts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amk View Post
    No Iris, the above was only posted yesterday. The real origin is this :

    http://forums.salary.sg/income-jobs/...html#post73847

    that is a thread full of BS and fake posts. This is all rubbish. You can even find ppl who claim they earn 500k pa and yet asking "are we doing ok" kind of posts.
    Maybe someone picked up this topic and posted on "All Singapore Stuff". Not sure about the salary.sg forum but it looks that just like this forum, there are people who asked and people who help to give suggestion and advice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    It all in the mind.

    http://www.idealistrevolution.org/a-...what-happened/

    One day a very wealthy father took his son on a trip to the country for the sole purpose of showing his son how it was to be poor. They spent a few days and nights on the farm of what would be considered a very poor family.

    After their return from the trip, the father asked his son how he liked the trip. “It was great, Dad,” the son replied. “Did you see how poor people can be?” the father asked. “Oh Yeah,” said the son.

    “So what did you learn from the trip?” asked the father. The son answered, “I saw that we have one dog and they had four. We have a pool that reaches to the middle of our garden and they have a creek that has no end. We have imported lanterns in our garden and they have the stars at night. Our patio reaches to the front yard and they have the whole horizon.

    We have a small piece of land to live on and they have fields that go beyond our sight. We have servants who serve us, but they serve others.

    We buy our food, but they grow theirs. We have walls around our property to protect us, they have friends to protect them.” The boy’s father was speechless. Then his son added, “It showed me how poor we are.”

    Too many times we forget what we have and concentrate on what we don’t have. What is one person’s worthless object is another’s prize possession. It is all based on one’s perspective.

    I’m thankful for what I have, not jealous for what I don’t. The more I understand about where I am, and understand what it is I want and need for my family and my children, the better I am able to make good decisions as a Husband and a Parent. When I’m aware of how my decisions affect others, I’m better able to make ones that are not only good for me and my family, but good for my community, my region, my country, and even our planet. Sometimes it takes the perspective of a child to remind us what’s important.
    Just to share another of the story. The mother wanted to let her young son knew that food was very precious, so she brought him to China and stayed in a village. What her son learned was never waste any single food as he saw how people went hunger over there. Now he has grown up and is working, in deed till now he never waste any food but become spendthrift. Bought branded watch, still need her mother to help her pay half of the cost, like to go to Starbucks and drink coffee etc. They are not from a rich family, his mother is a office cleaner and his father is a taxi driver. So IMHO, young children are naive but when they grow up, their thinking will change with the influence of his friends and environment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    They are not wrong.

    Our paid up condo is in the OCR - this is a liability and not an asset, every month need to pay maintenance and yearly property Tax.

    We drive a small non continental car. - This is another liability.

    We have two children in secondary schools. - still a long way to go.

    Don't understand why people like to paid up. ???????????

    Should just leverage responsibly and then invest the rest of the income and then buy insurance to hedge the risk.
    “Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
    ― Martin Luther King, Jr.

    OUT WITH THE SHIT TRASH

    https://www.facebook.com/shutdowntrs

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    their 1.5mil includes their condo , car etc ..

    which means cash in hand is probably 400 to 500k...

    there are many 'average' family with cash $1mil and over ...EXCLUDING their condos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by minority View Post
    Should just leverage responsibly and then invest the rest of the income and then buy insurance to hedge the risk.
    Lot of people still think leverage is a dirty word including me before Jun 2006.

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    Lol.
    Seems like everyone thinks he is poor.

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    Rich or Poor, all in the mind.

    A person with a 5 room HDB(rented), 2 Bedroom PC(rented) and stay in 3 Bedroom PH with 1.8 million debt, is the person Rich or Poor.
    Last edited by Arcachon; 25-10-15 at 22:47.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    Rich or Poor, all in the mind.

    A person with a 5 room HDB(rented), 2 Bedroom PC(rented) and stay in 3 Bedroom PH with 1.8 million debt, is the person Rich or Poor.
    In other peoples' eyes, he is rich because they see the "physical" but to him, he is poor because he owns the bank so much money. He can be rich if he sell away all his properties but he chooses not to because he consider these as investment. So agree with your sentence, Rich or Poor, all in the mind.

    Another thing is, depends on your surrounding friends, if all your friends have more than what you have, you will consider yourself poor though you have lots of properties but if your friends do not have what you have, even if you are staying in a condo without any other property, your friends will consider you very rich.

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    Cancel post.
    Last edited by Leeds; 26-10-15 at 10:35.

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    Cancel post.

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    1.8million debt out of 2.5million equity is appx LTV = 70%.
    So if property equity do drop by 30% value next 1-2yrs still ok mah.
    Debt = Equity value. Why need to Top Up? Not underwater mah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eric3417 View Post
    1.8million debt out of 2.5million equity is appx LTV = 70%.
    So if property equity do drop by 30% value next 1-2yrs still ok mah.
    Debt = Equity value. Why need to Top Up? Not underwater mah.
    He is "luckier" than most of us based on current valuations, might end up even luckier or less lucky 5 years down the road? My current LTV based on current valuation only reached 62%. But given the average propensity for risk between my spouse and myself, I think this is good enough. The rest of the funds can use as backup or to renew car COE / buy new car.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eric3417 View Post
    1.8million debt out of 2.5million equity is appx LTV = 70%.
    So if property equity do drop by 30% value next 1-2yrs still ok mah.
    Debt = Equity value. Why need to Top Up? Not underwater mah.
    A small correction.

    5 room valuation 640k.
    2 bedroom valuation 1.5 million
    3 bedroom PH brought from developer 1,305,800.

    He still feel poor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    A small correction.

    5 room valuation 640k.
    2 bedroom valuation 1.5 million
    3 bedroom PH brought from developer 1,305,800.

    He still feel poor.
    Also age dependent. I believe the older one gets, the lower the LTV will be due generally to inability to loan as one approaches 65 years old. Any loans beyond that age is likely to be based on existing equity accumulated. Your LTV is now about 52%. By any means you are already in excellent shape.
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

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    Time and Space, before all the Control measure my colleague father 75 years old was given a loan of 25 years for his condo purchase.

    My colleague don't believe in leverage, he took 40 years to amass his collection of property.

    When he found out I did it in 4 years, he shout not fair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    A small correction.

    5 room valuation 640k.
    2 bedroom valuation 1.5 million
    3 bedroom PH brought from developer 1,305,800.

    He still feel poor.

    His nett worth is about $1m ($2.8m - $1.8m) not considering his HDB flat. He should be enjoying cash positive with the combined rental income after paying his loan.

    He should not feel rich because if property price decline by 30% over the next few years, his nett worth is worth only $160K ($2.8m x 0.7 less $1.8m). The bank may need him to top up cash to meet the 70% LTV which mean he may has to cough out cash of about $500K. He may have to forced sell his PC to raise the cash. If he continues to hold on to both his PC, he should not feel rich because he can only hope that property prices will not fall too much. With this worry, he will never feel rich.

    However, if he will to unlock the value of his asset by off loading one of his profitable PC and invest in a more diversified portfolio like bond, he will still be cash positive and not worrying about falling property prices. With this worry behind him, he will feel richer.

    If property price indeed fall further, he could sell off his bond and buy into a cheaper asset if he still believe property gives him better protection.

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    Good idea, I also have the same thought. But whenever I go into share, the share market crash, very scary.

    Bond is also another assets that is control by big fish.

    The rate of money printing, I lost hope on most assets expect property.

    My game plan is very simple, I paid SGD 108,000 which have since return to me by rental income. If the market crash to zero, my lost is still zero.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    Good idea, I also have the same thought. But whenever I go into share, the share market crash, very scary.

    Bond is also another assets that is control by big fish.

    The rate of money printing, I lost hope on most assets expect property.

    My game plan is very simple, I paid SGD 108,000 which have since return to me by rental income. If the market crash to zero, my lost is still zero.
    You need a lot of luck when you put all your eggs in one basket.

    You may end up loosing both your PC and back to just your HDB flat and you are still fine. This is not investment, this is gambling even though you are gambling with other people's money.

    The fortunate thing for you is that you bought your properties cheaply hence even if force sell, you could buffer. For those who are like you but bought their properties during the high, I am sure, they not only do not feel rich, they could not even sleep well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeds View Post
    You need a lot of luck when you put all your eggs in one basket.

    You may end up loosing both your PC and back to just your HDB flat and you are still fine. This is not investment, this is gambling even though you are gambling with other people's money.

    The fortunate thing for you is that you bought your properties cheaply hence even if force sell, you could buffer. For those who are like you but bought their properties during the high, I am sure, they not only do not feel rich, they could not even sleep well.
    I think those who thought they sold at the peak also could not sleep well, especially if it was their only housing.

    That kind of drop (>30%) has only occurred once in our not-so-recent history, from 2Q96 to 4Q98.

    http://www.reflectionskeppel.com/sin...ice-index.html

    The graph looks a bit not aligned to the axes so let's just use the numbers indicated.

    Even the Lehman-started housing crash the drop was about 25% at max, followed by a massive growth.

    Bearing in mind the success of the TDSR since 2013 has prematurely cut short the growth phase in prices... Bearing in mind income growth... Bearing in mind continued easing in almost every large country we know of.

    When young can take more risks with investments. Which investment does not have gambling elements? Which investment is not about getting more money from others into your pockets?
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

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