Couples with 1.5 millions complain that they are low income

[Kelonguni]

Oh yes another bear... Bear in mind that if you trust the property index, prices have already dropped 9% or so to current prices in discussion. So how likely is it to see another 30% drop to make the total drop 39%? Also bear in mind based on the property index in the past that sharp rises always follow sharp falls, with the most stable period being 2000 to 2006, where the rise and fall is within 10%.

Last bear, promise. Bear in mind that if world housing prices continue to rise while SG prices continue to drop (total more than 15%), we will end up with a situation where foreign buyers pay lesser even after 15% ABSD as compared to SG before the CM and also in comparison to other countries worldwide. And that means our properties will reach the stage where it will start to be snapped up by foreigners if local buyers still could not afford.

That might have been the reason why ABSD is set at 15% and not 20% or more for foreign buyers. If my conjecture is right, there is a max of 5-6 % to fall unless more CMs come in.

[Leeds]

I think those who thought they sold at the peak also could not sleep well, especially if it was their only housing.

That kind of drop (>30%) has only occurred once in our not-so-recent history, from 2Q96 to 4Q98.

http://www.reflectionskeppel.com/sin...ice-index.html

The graph looks a bit not aligned to the axes so let's just use the numbers indicated.

Even the Lehman-started housing crash the drop was about 25% at max, followed by a massive growth.

Bearing in mind the success of the TDSR since 2013 has prematurely cut short the growth phase in prices... Bearing in mind income growth... Bearing in mind continued easing in almost every large country we know of.

When young can take more risks with investments. Which investment does not have gambling elements? Which investment is not about getting more money from others into your pockets?

The different between investment and gambling is that gambling depends on luck while investment (good investment) does not depend on luck. Good investment will ride through both good time and bad time while a gambler will only survive during good time.

Risk taking has nothing to do with age. Age only determines the period of loan one can take with a bank. Good investment does not depend on age though experience is critical in determining the success of your investment. A bad investment can make you go burst regardless of age.

[Citizen]

The different between investment and gambling is that gambling depends on luck while investment (good investment) does not depend on luck. Good investment will ride through both good time and bad time while a gambler will only survive during good time.

Risk taking has nothing to do with age. Age only determines the period of loan one can take with a bank. Good investment does not depend on age though experience is critical in determining the success of your investment. A bad investment can make you go burst regardless of age.

When good investment turn bad , then we said it has gambling elements in it? When bad gambling turn profitable we said we have foresight. Funny all are aftermath consultants or experts

[Citizen]

I bought olam bond when they are attacked by muddy water, even my rm said it is a suicidal investment. But it turn out profitable.

[Leeds]

When good investment turn bad , then we said it has gambling elements in it? When bad gambling turn profitable we said we have foresight. Funny all are aftermath consultants or experts

That was not what I had said. This is what you interpret. A good investment is one that can ride through both good time and more so during bad time.

[Citizen]

If one can ride thru, property investment 100 % profitable , do need to argue.

[Citizen]

Can name one of the good investment beside property that can ride thru good times and bad times. I guess you can't. If one can affords to hold for indefinite time, of course there are plentiful.

[Kelonguni]

Can name one of the good investment beside property that can ride thru good times and bad times. I guess you can't. If one can affords to hold for indefinite time, of course there are plentiful.

Friend, have. Education. For yourself and for children.

[Citizen]

Education is fundamental and basic. It is an offence if u dun sent your kids for basic education. But is it an offence if u dun invest?

[Citizen]

I have seem people with U degree and not getting that kind of pay. And some even worst rather stay jobless and relay on parents.

[Kelonguni]

I have seem people with U degree and not getting that kind of pay. And some even worst rather stay jobless and relay on parents.

Yah but education is more than about degree. Learning about humanity. Helping people. All are education.

Learning from different sources such as Arcachon is a kind of lesson, but there are many other different sources as well.

[Citizen]

Yeah forgotten hor , get lessons from those scam gold and land investments. Enlightenments from those Pastors and venerables also can considered education.

[Citizen]

Grow older doesn't necessary mean mature and wiser.

[Kelonguni]

Yeah forgotten hor , get lessons from those scam gold and land investments. Enlightenments from those Pastors and venerables also can considered education.

Those are also important lessons, but better if you get them for free through observations and reflections. A world of materials accessible through Internet. Boundless things to learn.

The tough thing is how to provide and tailormake the right kind of education for the next generation.

[Leeds]

Can name one of the good investment beside property that can ride thru good times and bad times. I guess you can't. If one can affords to hold for indefinite time, of course there are plentiful.

A good and sound investment does not refer to a particular investment product. It is about how you structure your investment and the product mix. For example, in real estate, you can go for max leverage if your entry price is low. It would be unwise if you go with max leverage when your entry price is at the peak. You will not be able to ride through the down time if you are not able to hold on to your properties.

[irisng]

Yah but education is more than about degree. Learning about humanity. Helping people. All are education.

Learning from different sources such as Arcachon is a kind of lesson, but there are many other different sources as well.

Pardon me. Education gives us knowledge but not necessary know about humanity. Come across a few cases like those highly educated people "ignore" their parents more than those with lower education. Eg someone complains to me that her son, a lawyer, didn't even give them (parent) a single cent allowance, reason: he needs to pay for his car, houses, children education, so no money for his parents. Some children, they say they have no money to give their parents allowance but they have money to go for holidays, go to restaurants with his wife and children to enjoy their food etc. All these cases, seems to come from highly educated people.

[Citizen]

A good and sound investment does not refer to a particular investment product. It is about how you structure your investment and the product mix. For example, in real estate, you can go for max leverage if your entry price is low. It would be unwise if you go with max leverage when your entry price is at the peak. You will not be able to ride through the down time if you are not able to hold on to your properties.

If it is that simple there won't be poor man around. When do a person know entry price is low or high. If you have a lot of cash everything seem low to you.

[Citizen]

If master Arcachon knew that the price he bought were low. He will go all out even to prostitute himself to buy more rather than just max leverage. Talk is cheap , but I still salute him at least he had done his best

[Leeds]

If it is that simple there won't be poor man around. When do a person know entry price is low or high. If you have a lot of cash everything seem low to you.

Investment is not that simple of course. For the common folks, at the very least you must know your limit and how much you should leverage because you do not quite know how low is low and how high is high since most people are blinded by greed.

Making good and sound investment decision need experience and wisdom. Why did Li Ka Shing start selling off his China's investment in 2011 while many others were still trying to get in?

Most of us are not Li, hence, we must be prudence and learn from successful or rich people. However, we are often our own worst enemy when come to investment. Greed kills!

[Kelonguni]

Pardon me. Education gives us knowledge but not necessary know about humanity. Come across a few cases like those highly educated people "ignore" their parents more than those with lower education. Eg someone complains to me that her son, a lawyer, didn't even give them (parent) a single cent allowance, reason: he needs to pay for his car, houses, children education, so no money for his parents. Some children, they say they have no money to give their parents allowance but they have money to go for holidays, go to restaurants with his wife and children to enjoy their food etc. All these cases, seems to come from highly educated people.

This area not sure if others will agree with me.

All of my overseas holidays, my parents and in laws were with me. There was even once we brought both sides' parents. It will be too late when the day comes when their health do not permit them to travel.

Another "investment" is to invest in family. Not necessarily money, but also any time that you can spare.

Learning about humanity means really going down to serve people who need it.

For most Singaporeans with family, life can be very simple if they so choose.

[Kelonguni]

Investment is not that simple of course. For the common folks, at the very least you must know your limit and how much you should leverage because you do not quite know how low is low and how high is high since most people are blinded by greed.

Making good and sound investment decision need experience and wisdom. Why did Li Ka Shing start selling off his China's investment in 2011 while many others were still trying to get in?

Most of us are not Li, hence, we must be prudence and learn from successful or rich people. However, we are often our own worst enemy when come to investment. Greed kills!

The period Li technically sold was in 2013 to 2014 as far as I am aware.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonch...-china-assets/

People who are buying now are unlikely to be greedy and looking at huge gains. Most are bopian after deferring their purchases for half a decade to close to a decade.

[Kelonguni]

The Li Ka Shing Advice:

http://singaporebusinessmedia.com.sg...entrepreneurs/

"Life can be designed. Career can be planned. Happiness can be prepared. You should start planning now. When you are poor, spend less time at home and more time outside. When you are rich, stay at home more and less outside. This is the art of living. When you are poor, spend money on others. When you’re rich, spend money on yourself. Many people are doing the opposite." Li Ka Shing.

I guess Arcachon is staying at home now.

[Leeds]

The period Li technically sold was in 2013 to 2014 as far as I am aware.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonch...-china-assets/

People who are buying now are unlikely to be greedy and looking at huge gains. Most are bopian after deferring their purchases for half a decade to close to a decade.

Li was quietly planning to sell off his assets including forming REITS since late 2011. It takes time to sell off such huge amount of assets.

Why are people still chasing after small gain (if any at all) with huge risk? It is not "bopian" but it is their lack of information, knowledge and wisdom. No sound investor will go for low gain high risk assets or securities.

[Arcachon]

Still working in France since Mar 2007, going back for good 26 Nov 2015.

Miss the smell of Haze in Singapore.

[hopeful]

Pardon me. Education gives us knowledge but not necessary know about humanity. Come across a few cases like those highly educated people "ignore" their parents more than those with lower education. Eg someone complains to me that her son, a lawyer, didn't even give them (parent) a single cent allowance, reason: he needs to pay for his car, houses, children education, so no money for his parents. Some children, they say they have no money to give their parents allowance but they have money to go for holidays, go to restaurants with his wife and children to enjoy their food etc. All these cases, seems to come from highly educated people.

What kind of person is that "someone"? Not a good grandparent/parent i'll bet.
what kind of grandparent would take money from their grandchildren?
what kind of parent would take money from their children?

sigh....they don't make parent and grandparent like they used to, the kind that sacrificed their lives and happiness for their children and grandchildren.
But there is still hope for Singapore, the lawyer knows the meaning of sacrifice. Sacrifice the past for the future.

[Kelonguni]

Li was quietly planning to sell off his assets including forming REITS since late 2011. It takes time to sell off such huge amount of assets.

Why are people still chasing after small gain (if any at all) with huge risk? It is not "bopian" but it is their lack of information, knowledge and wisdom. No sound investor will go for low gain high risk assets or securities.

He took 1 year to sell off billions from 2013 to 2014. Nowadays very nimble movement can take place in weeks to months. So Li Ka Shing took his money out in 2014 and will plan till 2016 to buy? Definitely not so long... He has already moved significant amounts to Europe and UK. My friend who worked in China told me that house prices in the major cities are even higher than in SG, widely touted previously as amongst the most expensive place to work for expats - how sustainable can that be on a global scale?

http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/A.../Price-History

The situation now is low risk low gain. How to have high risk after a 8-9% discount?

If TDSR did not come in and property continued to run ahead of income for two more years from 2013-2016, then we are in a higher risk situation now because all the properties will be in the hands of those who are very cash rich to begin with, buying for their children and grandchildren etc. The risk will be that much higher because each individual holds several sellable properties which they might not be able to sustain, or those very expensive and luxurious properties.

Many now buy to stay or upgrade and only very few can buy to invest now with the measures still in place. Speculators have mostly exited although some will continue to offload their spare properties. But very few will chase the prices all the way down except maybe expatriates who bought and plan to exit SG. But very few expats buy to begin with as far as I am aware, especially since ABSD was targeted at them.

[Kelonguni]

What kind of person is that "someone"? Not a good grandparent/parent i'll bet.
what kind of grandparent would take money from their grandchildren?
what kind of parent would take money from their children?

sigh....they don't make parent and grandparent like they used to, the kind that sacrificed their lives and happiness for their children and grandchildren.
But there is still hope for Singapore, the lawyer knows the meaning of sacrifice. Sacrifice the past for the future.

We know someone from this forum who asked his parents and in laws to sell their HDBs and cramp into his Mt Sinai property because of the proximity to Henry Park Primary School and the landed environment. Classic case of sacrificing the past for the future.

[minority]

I have 5 properties and likely will get another if the ABSD is removed. I also feel I am poor. How?

[Kelonguni]

I have 5 properties and likely will get another if the ABSD is removed. I also feel I am poor. How?

Just for you, can be certain ABSD will not be removed soon. At best reduce the %. But we are at least 2 quarters or more away after a full 10% dip in the index.

[yowetan]

I am still hopeful to get a 2nd property with limited budget of 300k.