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Thread: HDB Resale Prices Taken a Worse Hit This Time Round ???

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    Default HDB Resale Prices Taken a Worse Hit This Time Round ???

    The HDB resale market, being an open market for buying and selling public housing flats, has always been perceived to be a resilient and stable one with minimal downside risks compared to the private residential counterpart.

    According to figures published by the Housing Development Board (HDB) and the Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA), even during the height of the Global Financial Crisis, the public housing resale price index only lost 0.8 per cent in a single quarter before the upward momentum was restored, as compared to a 24.9 per cent drop in private residential prices over four consecutive quarters. Similarly, during the Asian Financial Crisis back in the 1990s, private residential prices plummeted by 44.9 per cent, while HDB resale prices only dropped by a much slighter 28.0 per cent.

    price indices

    However, following the introduction of various rounds of cooling measures, the table seems to be turned around. Flash estimates published by the two government agencies on 1st Oct 2014 indicates that HDB resale prices and private homes prices have softened from their last year’s peaks by 6.8 per cent and 3.8 per cent respectively. Surprisingly, the HDB resale prices have been weighed down more than the private home prices this time round. Besides the large number of Build-to-Order (BTO) flats pulling demand away from the resale market, there are two other primary reasons behind such an abnormal trend.

    Exclusive Demand Curbs in the HDB Resale Market

    Firstly, the set of measures targeting the HDB resale market is harsher than those on the private side.

    In the private residential market, the Additional Buyers’ Stamp Duty is meant to curb excess demand from foreign buyers. However, there is no additional taxation payable by first-time local buyers. Moreover, the duty itself only adds on additional purchasing costs but does not put an absolute bar on buying. Given some discounts offered by developers to offset such additional cash outlay, buyers with real demand are not much worse off compared to before.

    In the HDB resale market, however, new permanent resident (PR) couples are pushed onto the waiting list for up to three years with no choices. In fact, before the rule change, approximately 20 per cent of resale flats were sold to PRs, of which about half are new PR families. Effectively, with the drop-outs of new PR families, the overall demand for resale public housing flats was cut by about 10 per cent. So 3 years later the demand increase by 10%

    Varied Holding Powers

    On the supply side, those HDB upgraders who opted for a new Built-to-Order (BTO) flat, need to sell off their previous flat within six months from the day which they collect keys to their new flats. The Ministry of National Development (MND) expected about 6,000 such “have-to-sell” flats to hit the resale market in each year from now to 2016, up from 2,800 cases in 2013. This is equivalent to the amount of resale transactions for 4.4 months, based on the total number of 8,170 resale transactions that took place in the first half of this year. The demand from PR should fit in for resale increase.

    With a disposal deadline to meet, flats sellers have to let go at an increasingly lower price, especially in a market with shrinking buyer pool(How can shrinking when demand is increasing). Worse still, buyers’ affordability has been further limited by the revised Mortgage Servicing Ratio (MSR) framework, which requires buyers to use only up to 30 per cent of their monthly household income to purchase a HDB flat. This spiral of factors has consequently caused the HDB resale prices to take a fast dive.

    On the private resale side, the cooling measures have deeper impact on transaction volume rather than prices. Although the Total Debt Servicing Ratio (TDSR) has reduced buyers’ mortgage limits, sellers’ holding powers are still strong in a sustained low-interest environment, and they are not forced to sell within a certain timeframe like what we see in the HDB resale market. While potential private home buyers shop around and wait for further price reductions, the gap between buyers’ expectations and asking prices widens further. In such a tug of price negotiations, transaction volume has fallen to a trough. On a year-on-year basis, private residential resale transaction volume has been on a downtrend for 6 consecutive quarters, while prices remained stagnant.

    Fast Price Drops in HDB Resale Market Not Necessarily Bad

    A simple conclusion so far is that government interventions have more descent impact on public housing prices, while the private home prices are not easily shaken by factors other than the economic fundamentals. From a positive angle, a faster fall in HDB resale prices may also trigger a sooner relaxation of cooling measures than for that to happen in the private residential market.



    I chose to tell you what I want you to know, look at the graph anything wrong.
    Last edited by Arcachon; 15-10-14 at 22:56.

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    http://www.ezproperty.sg/singapore-p...oling-measures

    For more details, please have a look at the official press releases regarding the property cooling measures:
    Round 1 (14 September 2009)
    Round 2 (20 February 2010)
    Round 3 (30 August 2010)
    Round 4 (14 January 2011)
    Round 5 (7 December 2011)
    Round 6 (5 October 2012)
    Round 7 (11 January 2013)
    Round 8 (28 June 2013)

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    Interactive charts: Impact of Singapore's property cooling measures on sales and prices - See more at: http://www.straitstimes.com/news/bus....lymdrkQb.dpuf

    http://www.straitstimes.com/news/bus...y-cooling-meas

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    Not true HDB cooling measures more harsh than private lah, because by right HDB flats should be reserved only for Singapore Citizens only (because the land HDB flats sit on had been acquired cheaply from Citizens!), just that in the past the HDB rules have been too lax like:
    1) allowing foreigners to buy HDB flats etc!
    2) Buyers of HDB flats can loan up to 90% (i.e. their LTV is 90%)!
    3) Buyers of HDB flats can drag for >35 years!
    4) Buyers of HDB flats can drag their HDB flats' loan tenure for very long until like pay interest only (very little capital payment)...


    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    The HDB resale market, being an open market for buying and selling public housing flats, has always been perceived to be a resilient and stable one with minimal downside risks compared to the private residential counterpart.

    According to figures published by the Housing Development Board (HDB) and the Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA), even during the height of the Global Financial Crisis, the public housing resale price index only lost 0.8 per cent in a single quarter before the upward momentum was restored, as compared to a 24.9 per cent drop in private residential prices over four consecutive quarters. Similarly, during the Asian Financial Crisis back in the 1990s, private residential prices plummeted by 44.9 per cent, while HDB resale prices only dropped by a much slighter 28.0 per cent.

    price indices

    However, following the introduction of various rounds of cooling measures, the table seems to be turned around. Flash estimates published by the two government agencies on 1st Oct 2014 indicates that HDB resale prices and private homes prices have softened from their last year’s peaks by 6.8 per cent and 3.8 per cent respectively. Surprisingly, the HDB resale prices have been weighed down more than the private home prices this time round. Besides the large number of Build-to-Order (BTO) flats pulling demand away from the resale market, there are two other primary reasons behind such an abnormal trend.

    Exclusive Demand Curbs in the HDB Resale Market

    Firstly, the set of measures targeting the HDB resale market is harsher than those on the private side.

    In the private residential market, the Additional Buyers’ Stamp Duty is meant to curb excess demand from foreign buyers. However, there is no additional taxation payable by first-time local buyers. Moreover, the duty itself only adds on additional purchasing costs but does not put an absolute bar on buying. Given some discounts offered by developers to offset such additional cash outlay, buyers with real demand are not much worse off compared to before.

    In the HDB resale market, however, new permanent resident (PR) couples are pushed onto the waiting list for up to three years with no choices. In fact, before the rule change, approximately 20 per cent of resale flats were sold to PRs, of which about half are new PR families. Effectively, with the drop-outs of new PR families, the overall demand for resale public housing flats was cut by about 10 per cent. So 3 years later the demand increase by 10%

    Varied Holding Powers

    On the supply side, those HDB upgraders who opted for a new Built-to-Order (BTO) flat, need to sell off their previous flat within six months from the day which they collect keys to their new flats. The Ministry of National Development (MND) expected about 6,000 such “have-to-sell” flats to hit the resale market in each year from now to 2016, up from 2,800 cases in 2013. This is equivalent to the amount of resale transactions for 4.4 months, based on the total number of 8,170 resale transactions that took place in the first half of this year. The demand from PR should fit in for resale increase.

    With a disposal deadline to meet, flats sellers have to let go at an increasingly lower price, especially in a market with shrinking buyer pool(How can shrinking when demand is increasing). Worse still, buyers’ affordability has been further limited by the revised Mortgage Servicing Ratio (MSR) framework, which requires buyers to use only up to 30 per cent of their monthly household income to purchase a HDB flat. This spiral of factors has consequently caused the HDB resale prices to take a fast dive.

    On the private resale side, the cooling measures have deeper impact on transaction volume rather than prices. Although the Total Debt Servicing Ratio (TDSR) has reduced buyers’ mortgage limits, sellers’ holding powers are still strong in a sustained low-interest environment, and they are not forced to sell within a certain timeframe like what we see in the HDB resale market. While potential private home buyers shop around and wait for further price reductions, the gap between buyers’ expectations and asking prices widens further. In such a tug of price negotiations, transaction volume has fallen to a trough. On a year-on-year basis, private residential resale transaction volume has been on a downtrend for 6 consecutive quarters, while prices remained stagnant.

    Fast Price Drops in HDB Resale Market Not Necessarily Bad

    A simple conclusion so far is that government interventions have more descent impact on public housing prices, while the private home prices are not easily shaken by factors other than the economic fundamentals. From a positive angle, a faster fall in HDB resale prices may also trigger a sooner relaxation of cooling measures than for that to happen in the private residential market.



    I chose to tell you what I want you to know, look at the graph anything wrong.

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    Agree with teddy. HDB is meant for the peasants and should have been cheaper and more affordable. Want a better life for retirement go private!

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    Agree, that why I buy Terrasse, look like a retirement village.


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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    Not true HDB cooling measures more harsh than private lah, because by right HDB flats should be reserved only for Singapore Citizens only (because the land HDB flats sit on had been acquired cheaply from Citizens!), just that in the past the HDB rules have been too lax like:
    1) allowing foreigners to buy HDB flats etc!
    2) Buyers of HDB flats can loan up to 90% (i.e. their LTV is 90%)!
    3) Buyers of HDB flats can drag for >35 years!
    4) Buyers of HDB flats can drag their HDB flats' loan tenure for very long until like pay interest only (very little capital payment)...
    1) allowing foreigners to buy HDB flats etc! (only PR not any Tom, Dick or Harry)

    2) Buyers of HDB flats can loan up to 90% (i.e. their LTV is 90%)! (only Marbo Tan Time) My Time iron rice bowl don't need deposit.

    3) Buyers of HDB flats can drag for >35 years! (Marbo Tan price HDB link to market value, raise so high that he need to give 35 years loan) My Time max 25 years only.

    4) Buyers of HDB flats can drag their HDB flats' loan tenure for very long until like pay interest only (very little capital payment) Loan tenure now is no more long........

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    My uncle's 5 room hdb flat at yishun (next to Khoo tech puat hospital) just got rented out yesterday after almost 6 months of vacancy. Rental has dropped to $1800/mth instead of his last rental income of $2800/mth. This will have impact on those new condos in yishun.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    1) allowing foreigners to buy HDB flats etc! (only PR not any Tom, Dick or Harry)

    2) Buyers of HDB flats can loan up to 90% (i.e. their LTV is 90%)! (only Marbo Tan Time) My Time iron rice bowl don't need deposit.

    3) Buyers of HDB flats can drag for >35 years! (Marbo Tan price HDB link to market value, raise so high that he need to give 35 years loan) My Time max 25 years only.

    4) Buyers of HDB flats can drag their HDB flats' loan tenure for very long until like pay interest only (very little capital payment) Loan tenure now is no more long........

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    It will become worse. My friend sold his unit at Buangkok for 630k. Now, a unit sold at 470k. 4 floors lower than his only but difference almost coming to 200k. But should continue to drop more. HDB is public housing, not for profit.

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    PRs are also FOREIGNERS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    They don't carry Singapore's passports......
    They don't serve in Singapore's National Service (ARMY)...........
    They have NO OBLIGATION to Singapore, and can always go back to their own country !!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    1) allowing foreigners to buy HDB flats etc! (only PR not any Tom, Dick or Harry)

    2) Buyers of HDB flats can loan up to 90% (i.e. their LTV is 90%)! (only Marbo Tan Time) My Time iron rice bowl don't need deposit.

    3) Buyers of HDB flats can drag for >35 years! (Marbo Tan price HDB link to market value, raise so high that he need to give 35 years loan) My Time max 25 years only.

    4) Buyers of HDB flats can drag their HDB flats' loan tenure for very long until like pay interest only (very little capital payment) Loan tenure now is no more long........

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    now Hdb loan or bank loan for Hdb also 25yrs max

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    Because the COW delink the price of BTO to the resale market. Put in place MSR to prevent people from using HDB as a saving plan for retirement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    Because the COW delink the price of BTO to the resale market. Put in place MSR to prevent people from using HDB as a saving plan for retirement.
    whatever itzi, market is real bad. rental 2.2k for 614sqft condo.
    making people losing confident.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    Because the COW delink the price of BTO to the resale market. Put in place MSR to prevent people from using HDB as a saving plan for retirement.
    It is interesting to note that he didn't do that early on...but choose to market to overheat and than slamming the brakes drastically.

    With all the intel from the varied sources etc, he knows all along he should have done it early.

    But purposely wait and then time these to coincidence with the interest hike so that it would look as if he was the only minister capable to bring down the sky high prices...so as to win votes.

    Very scheming indeed.

    Who suffer in the end?

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    PRs are also FOREIGNERS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    They don't carry Singapore's passports......
    They don't serve in Singapore's National Service (ARMY)...........
    They have NO OBLIGATION to Singapore, and can always go back to their own country !!!!
    Lets say if don sell to PRs and foreigners...is the local hdb market big enough to sustain?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwong71 View Post
    whatever itzi, market is real bad. rental 2.2k for 614sqft condo.
    making people losing confident.
    That is good, isn't this is what most Singaporean is looking forward to. Low rental, Low resale price, Low BTO, Low new launch.

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    Sustain what?
    BTOs means got demand then build, no demand don't build, simple right?
    Then there are those SERS, supply will be reduced, so sustainable right?

    Cannot sell HDB flats to PRs is a right step to take if the govt is genuinely concerned about the welfare of the old folks and to allow old folks to be able to rent out their HDB flats for income for retirement....... the way they are doing now is to pump up the prices and then implement policies to crash the prices is to make many of these old folks suffer!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki View Post
    Lets say if don sell to PRs and foreigners...is the local hdb market big enough to sustain?

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    PR or no PR, so long as they contribute to Singapore we should welcome them to buy HDB.

    Only a few bad apples make the PR look bad.

    The present policy is good enough, 3 years than can buy, buy then cannot rent out, make or lost money depends on when they end and exit HDB.

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    If they really contribute a lot of Singapore, they will be earning high salary, why would they need to buy HDB?
    Unless these are people have low income, come to compete for jobs with the layman Singapore citizens, and depressing their low wages, so cannot afford private and can only afford HDB flats?
    All the more we and the govt need to ensure that PRs cannot buy HDB flats so that companies have no choice but to bring in only GENUINE foreign talents (and not "fake" foreign talents)!

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    PR or no PR, so long as they contribute to Singapore we should welcome them to buy HDB.

    Only a few bad apples make the PR look bad.

    The present policy is good enough, 3 years than can buy, buy then cannot rent out, make or lost money depends on when they end and exit HDB.

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    PRs should not be allowed to own an HDB flat indefinitely without converting to Singapore citizenship. In fact, it is already a flaw in the govt's policy to allow foreigners to own public housing. PRs should be be paying 20% higher than market valuation for any resale flat so that they do not compete on a level playing field with Singaporeans in the open market.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    PR or no PR, so long as they contribute to Singapore we should welcome them to buy HDB.

    Only a few bad apples make the PR look bad.

    The present policy is good enough, 3 years than can buy, buy then cannot rent out, make or lost money depends on when they end and exit HDB.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    If they really contribute a lot of Singapore, they will be earning high salary, why would they need to buy HDB?
    Unless these are people have low income, come to compete for jobs with the layman Singapore citizens, and depressing their low wages, so cannot afford private and can only afford HDB flats?
    All the more we and the govt need to ensure that PRs cannot buy HDB flats so that companies have no choice but to bring in only GENUINE foreign talents (and not "fake" foreign talents)!

    Well on the other hand you don't want all the high paying jobs only going to foreigners do you? There is no ratio quota for hiring foreigners who are here on employment pass. There is also no need for a company to prove that the job cannot be carried out by a local before they hire a foreigner.

    It's only in the recent year that the government is saying they are issuing lesser employment passes a year.

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    Isn't it the case that many highest paying jobs in Singapore are going to foreigners?
    Who is DBS CEO? Is he a Singapore citizen?
    Who is Standard Chartered Singapore CEO? Is he a Singapore citizen?
    Who is Citibank Singapore CEO? Is he a Singapore citizen?
    Who is Shell Singapore CEO? Is he a Singapore citizen?

    All the above are proofs that nobody, not even the govt, can prevent highest paying jobs from going to foreigners.
    However, they can prevent mid- and low-paying jobs from going to Foreigners, by making sure that low-paying foreigners have no access to cheap housing (e.g. HDB flats, dormitories etc) and hence companies won't be able to get them to work in Singapore!


    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    Well on the other hand you don't want all the high paying jobs only going to foreigners do you? There is no ratio quota for hiring foreigners who are here on employment pass. There is also no need for a company to prove that the job cannot be carried out by a local before they hire a foreigner.

    It's only in the recent year that the government is saying they are issuing lesser employment passes a year.

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    Zzz... Do u know that the income base for EP holder is SGD4500 and above a month? I said high not highest. So reality is the foreigners are taking many mid to high level jobs which can often be fulfilled by locals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    PR or no PR, so long as they contribute to Singapore we should welcome them to buy HDB.

    Only a few bad apples make the PR look bad.

    The present policy is good enough, 3 years than can buy, buy then cannot rent out, make or lost money depends on when they end and exit HDB.
    Ya agree. Dun see a problem of them buying since they are buying only resale and also with the newer rules put in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcachon View Post
    PR or no PR, so long as they contribute to Singapore we should welcome them to buy HDB.

    Only a few bad apples make the PR look bad.

    The present policy is good enough, 3 years than can buy, buy then cannot rent out, make or lost money depends on when they end and exit HDB.
    Define 'contribute'.

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    Long long time ago, there was this small little island.

    The people was happy living in the island but don't like to give birth to baby thus their population start to decrease.

    They start to get people to stay in their island.

    One of them say only the doctor, lawyer, teacher, musician, etc which can contribute to the island can come and stay.

    Guess what happen when you have an island with lots of professional and no general worker.

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    They should only allow 2 kind of foreigners to work in Singapore:
    1) domestic workers & construction workers
    2) all other foreigners doing other jobs must earn >$20k per month otherwise EP not approved!

    EP holder income must be >$4500 pm, but this is rather low if company start adding medical benefits, other bonuses and OT etc and take the gross monthly pay!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    Zzz... Do u know that the income base for EP holder is SGD4500 and above a month? I said high not highest. So reality is the foreigners are taking many mid to high level jobs which can often be fulfilled by locals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    They should only allow 2 kind of foreigners to work in Singapore:
    1) domestic workers & construction workers
    2) all other foreigners doing other jobs must earn >$20k per month otherwise EP not approved!

    EP holder income must be >$4500 pm, but this is rather low if company start adding medical benefits, other bonuses and OT etc and take the gross monthly pay!

    I could be wrong but I understand $4500 is minimum base pay for EP holders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    I could be wrong but I understand $4500 is minimum base pay for EP holders.
    Is $3300.
    I know, it is laughable.

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