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Thread: The Clift (D1, 99 years, Far East Org)

  1. #31
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    As much as I love TS, I think Citylights offers the highest rental yield. Rental at TS sucks but is improving a lot over the past 6 months.



    Quote Originally Posted by Blue
    If for own stay, certainly should look elsewhere. If for invest / rent, The Clift is definitely one gd choice.

  2. #32
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    your highest still no match for hdb or Maytower in KL (9%+Rental yield)
    Quote Originally Posted by thomastansb
    As much as I love TS, I think Citylights offers the highest rental yield. Rental at TS sucks but is improving a lot over the past 6 months.

  3. #33
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    Agree. Citylights might be having the highest rental yield in Singapore now, nothing beats HDB.

    But....

    HDB - lose out 8 years of opportunity costs
    KL - That country is a joke.. No stability and most importantly, that country is a joke. Indonesia 50% rental yield but you dare to venture or not?



    Quote Originally Posted by Regulators
    your highest still no match for hdb or Maytower in KL (9%+Rental yield)

  4. #34
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    For HDB, 8 years apply to new flats, not resale. Moreover, nothing to stop owners from drafting room rental agreements even if whole unit is leased out.

    For Malaysia, safest to invest in KLCC freehold properties in the heart of the capital. May have to contend with short term rental to get 9% rental yield, but have also heard of people renting long term for this kind of yield.

    For Indo, I won't even think of parking any money there. Money is usually made from plantation ownership in indo and that pie has already been taken.


    Quote Originally Posted by Squall8888
    Agree. Citylights might be having the highest rental yield in Singapore now, nothing beats HDB.

    But....

    HDB - lose out 8 years of opportunity costs
    KL - That country is a joke.. No stability and most importantly, that country is a joke. Indonesia 50% rental yield but you dare to venture or not?

  5. #35
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    For resale, then rental yield won't be 9% already.

    Let's take pouggol for instance. One of the cheapest HDB. 5 rooms cost about 450k. Rental only 1.8k on average. That gave 4.8% yield. Better park my money in private properties. Unless you want those 'birds don't lay eggs' location. Maybe 5 rooms cost 350k. Cheapest in Singapore already. Rental maybe 1700. Only 5.8% yield. Still private better. Still got faster capital appreciation.

    The only exception is you buy first hand. Those who bought sengkang in the early days are getting 30-40% yield.




    Quote Originally Posted by Regulators
    For HDB, 8 years apply to new flats, not resale. Moreover, nothing to stop owners from drafting room rental agreements even if whole unit is leased out.

    For Malaysia, safest to invest in KLCC freehold properties in the heart of the capital. May have to contend with short term rental to get 9% rental yield, but have also heard of people renting long term for this kind of yield.

    For Indo, I won't even think of parking any money there. Money is usually made from plantation ownership in indo and that pie has already been taken.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squall8888
    For resale, then rental yield won't be 9% already.

    Let's take pouggol for instance. One of the cheapest HDB. 5 rooms cost about 450k. Rental only 1.8k on average. That gave 4.8% yield. Better park my money in private properties. Unless you want those 'birds don't lay eggs' location. Maybe 5 rooms cost 350k. Cheapest in Singapore already. Rental maybe 1700. Only 5.8% yield. Still private better. Still got faster capital appreciation.

    The only exception is you buy first hand. Those who bought sengkang in the early days are getting 30-40% yield.
    Quote Originally Posted by Regulator
    For HDB, 8 years apply to new flats, not resale. Moreover, nothing to stop owners from drafting room rental agreements even if whole unit is leased out.

    For Malaysia, safest to invest in KLCC freehold properties in the heart of the capital. May have to contend with short term rental to get 9% rental yield, but have also heard of people renting long term for this kind of yield.

    For Indo, I won't even think of parking any money there. Money is usually made from plantation ownership in indo and that pie has already been taken.
    I believe comparing condo's rental with HDB's isn't a good comparison.

    Opportunity Cost
    Can you rent out your resale HDB flat within the first 2 years?
    Your condo generates income immediately.

    Limited Income
    Can you buy more than 1 HDB resale flats or a multi-million flat to get higher income?
    You can buy more than 1 condo or a more costly condo to get higher income.

  7. #37
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    dont think u knw the hdb market very well. A 4rm flat in Bt Batok for example cost around 350k and the asking rental in that area for 4rm is 2k for flats near the mrt. That works out to 6.8%rental yield in current market. For 3rm flats in the same area, rental yield is even higher at 7.7% (3rm flats in Bt Batok costing around 250k to 260k and rental is 1.6k for units near mrt). Find me a condo that can achieve that in current mkt. A Maytower KLCC condo cost rm230k and rental is rm2.2k which works out to in fact 11.4% rental yield not 9%.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squall8888
    For resale, then rental yield won't be 9% already.

    Let's take pouggol for instance. One of the cheapest HDB. 5 rooms cost about 450k. Rental only 1.8k on average. That gave 4.8% yield. Better park my money in private properties. Unless you want those 'birds don't lay eggs' location. Maybe 5 rooms cost 350k. Cheapest in Singapore already. Rental maybe 1700. Only 5.8% yield. Still private better. Still got faster capital appreciation.

    The only exception is you buy first hand. Those who bought sengkang in the early days are getting 30-40% yield.

  8. #38
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    Are you sure 4 room can get 2k? Somemore in such ulu location. Even bukit merah directly opp. metropolitan, 1 min to MRT only around 2.1k for 5 room flats.



    Quote Originally Posted by Regulators
    dont think u knw the hdb market very well. A 4rm flat in Bt Batok for example cost around 350k and the asking rental in that area for 4rm is 2k for flats near the mrt. That works out to 6.8%rental yield in current market. For 3rm flats in the same area, rental yield is even higher at 7.7% (3rm flats in Bt Batok costing around 250k to 260k and rental is 1.6k for units near mrt). Find me a condo that can achieve that in current mkt. A Maytower KLCC condo cost rm230k and rental is rm2.2k which works out to in fact 11.4% rental yield not 9%.
    Last edited by thomastansb; 28-12-09 at 02:42.

  9. #39
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    It is insane to buy HDB now. Look at the resale prices. I rather buy private. With 8k income ceiling, who can afford? And needless to say, all those regulations and red tapes.

    Punggol 450k to 500k. 30 years loan. One month $1.8 to 2k. CPF just nice if couple income is 7k+

    If buy mature estate with 8k income ceiling, how to afford without coming out cash?

    Then again, one man's meat is another man poison. Some might argue private also need to come out cash. So it's hard to make comparison. The Sail is still the best IMO.




    Quote Originally Posted by Reporter
    I believe comparing condo's rental with HDB's isn't a good comparison.

    Opportunity Cost
    Can you rent out your resale HDB flat within the first 2 years?
    Your condo generates income immediately.

    Limited Income
    Can you buy more than 1 HDB resale flats or a multi-million flat to get higher income?
    You can buy more than 1 condo or a more costly condo to get higher income.

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    Record I heard for 4rm in bukit batok is 2.2k. It is a norm to rent out a 4rm near mrt in bukit batok for between 1.8k to 2.1k. I have friends living in that area who told me that. They told me that supply for rental flats in bukit batok near the mrt is very low which explains the high rental in that area. Bt Batok is also one of the most desirable estates to live in with a very good mix of greenery and urban lifestyle (can stroll to Bukit Timah hil and nature reserve and yet it is close to a mall, all banks, eateries etc etc. and easy access to PIE/AYE and bukit timah area.

    Quote Originally Posted by thomastansb
    Are you sure 4 room can get 2k? Somemore in such ulu location. Even bukit merah directly opp. metropolitan, 1 min to MRT only around 2.1k for 5 room flats.

  11. #41
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    You mean best in terms of rental yield? are you joking? for the price you paid for the sail, you will probably be thinking of capital appreciation more than rental yield I suppose.

    Quote Originally Posted by thomastansb
    The Sail is still the best IMO.

  12. #42
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    Nope. Not about yield or appreciation. TS yield is bad.

    What I meanis quality living. But different people might have different opinions about quality living. Some like HDB, some like older estate, some like new and quiet estate. I like the 2 MRTs, malls, concrete towers, sea, bay, garden etc etc etc.... at your door step.


    Quote Originally Posted by Regulators
    You mean best in terms of rental yield? are you joking? for the price you paid for the sail, you will probably be thinking of capital appreciation more than rental yield I suppose.

  13. #43
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    squall/regulator - No need argue la. I prefer HDB data.

    This is how I derive from HDB data => 2000/mth / 400k = 6% yield.



    From HDB data, only $1800 for 4 rooms. This is also coincidentally the national average as well. So bt. batok is not good, not bad.

    http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10297p.nsf/ImageView/CORPORATE_PR_23012009_ANNEX_E/$file/4Q08RPI+Annex+E.pdf


    And on average, selling price around 400k + - 10% from HDB website. I assume near MRT can get 2k rental. Even at 2.3k a month, still less than 7% yield.

    Bukit Batok 106 01 to 05 107.00
    Model A 1985 $330,000.00 Dec 2009
    Bukit Batok 621 26 to 30 90.00
    Model A 2003 $491,000.00 Dec 2009
    Bukit Batok 106 01 to 05 104.00
    Model A 1985 $385,000.00 Oct 2009
    Bukit Batok 124 01 to 05 98.00
    New Generation 1985 $320,000.00 Oct 2009
    Bukit Batok 625 06 to 10 103.00
    Model A 1997 $415,000.00 Oct 2009




    Quote Originally Posted by Regulators
    Record I heard for 4rm in bukit batok is 2.2k. It is a norm to rent out a 4rm near mrt in bukit batok for between 1.8k to 2.1k. I have friends living in that area who told me that. They told me that supply for rental flats in bukit batok near the mrt is very low which explains the high rental in that area. Bt Batok is also one of the most desirable estates to live in with a very good mix of greenery and urban lifestyle (can stroll to Bukit Timah hil and nature reserve and yet it is close to a mall, all banks, eateries etc etc. and easy access to PIE/AYE and bukit timah area.

  14. #44
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    Is't this thread supposed to talk abt The Clift? Now become TS, HDB vs Pte rental yield liao.

  15. #45
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    Quality of living? Don't really agree TS (The Sail) is best lah because >1110 units. So cramp. Don't think the facilities can cater for so many units. I prefer those condo estate with < 200 units. More exclusive, less cramp, more chance to enjoy the facilities. Furthermore, don't want to live in the central city where you have F1, etc events happening and roads around are closed causing huge traffic jam and inconvenience to residents there and the whole surroundings swamped with aliens (ops, I mean non-residents).

    Quote Originally Posted by thomastansb
    Nope. Not about yield or appreciation. TS yield is bad.

    What I meanis quality living. But different people might have different opinions about quality living. Some like HDB, some like older estate, some like new and quiet estate. I like the 2 MRTs, malls, concrete towers, sea, bay, garden etc etc etc.... at your door step.

  16. #46
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    If buy to stay:

    Better to get somewhere along the fringe of the CBD due to the multiple ERPs you would be paying to get in and out of CBD daily. Plus the extra premium psf you pay for a unit in the CBD versus the fringe areas, you could jolly well get a larger unit (double the size) outside of CBD or buy a Lambo / Ferrari to drive and live in style than to be cramped in a small space surrounded by offices and white collar workers.

    On the contrary, if you like to admire office ladies (OLs) while sitting by your living hall, then city living is for u.

    If buy to invest:

    I think value of The Clift has room to appreciate given its lower psf as compared to the ones in Marina Bay or even Icon / Lumiere.

    Am tempted to get a 2 bedder...now going at approx $1500 psf..

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    I would believe that the Clift will fetch a good yield in view of Icon current rental rates, apparently Icon has the highest rental yield even in last year economical downturn ( I don't think Citylight offers better yield). The Sail's rental is not as high as Icon due to the numerous ongoing constructions in its vicinity, but once the IR and the garden by the bay are completed I'm sure the yield would improve greatly.

    one good thing about the clift is the compact and efficient layout, a 2bedder and a storeroom is about 770 sft, not too small about the same size as a 3room hdb flat. Surrounding projects do not offer 2 bedders of such size. Hence, it is attractive to expats who prefer to have an additional room rather than the view with the same budget.

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    Anyone has a 2brm 775sqft or 818sqft above #20 for sale?

    Have a buyer with budget of 1580psf.

    Please email to [email protected]

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    Altez oredi selling $2000psf...the Clift should worth at least $1800psf now

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    Ask your buyer to see city fringe area?




    Quote Originally Posted by SP specialist
    Anyone has a 2brm 775sqft or 818sqft above #20 for sale?

    Have a buyer with budget of 1580psf.

    Please email to [email protected]

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    with such prices i better buy double bay residence at d18

    Quote Originally Posted by thomastansb
    Ask your buyer to see city fringe area?

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    Ya great. You should buy all the remaining dbr units!

    Quote Originally Posted by tanumy
    with such prices i better buy double bay residence at d18

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    The track noise will be unbearable and insane. Furthermore, no more upside for suburban and prices are at peak or will start dropping soon.




    Quote Originally Posted by tanumy
    with such prices i better buy double bay residence at d18

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    One thing about The Clift that really bothers me is the really DAMN slow construction progress. My office overlooks the construction site, and I can hardly find any worker there and a crane that seems to have stalled many weeks ago. what is FEO doing for this project ? I understand that they have not fully launch the units, and so they waiting for ?I heard that the expected TOP is in end 2012 ! and hell FEO is really taking its own sweet time,wondering if this is part of their strategy....really an eye sore to see the project stopped halfway and progress so slowly..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squall8888
    The track noise will be unbearable and insane. Furthermore, no more upside for suburban and prices are at peak or will start dropping soon.
    This I beg to disagree, in fact there will still be upside to the suburbans given the bigger price differential between the prime districts and the suburbs. This is mainly bec we are talking about Singapore which is a tiny small country and the road infrastructure is very well distributed / connected. Would it make a whole lot of difference between travelling 5 mins to IR versus 15 mins to IR?

    Talkign about popularity of the suburbs, just see the hot sales at The Estuary (Yishun / Khatib)...u be surprised cos I'm really surprised!!!

    Simple mathematics:

    Given an investment sum of say, S$2M, you have the choice to either invest in:

    1) Prime District - 1000 sqft @ $2000 psf = S$2M
    2) Suburbs / City Fringe - 2000 sqft @ S$1000 psf = S$2M

    To make S$200K, you need at least a price hike of S$200psf in the Prime Dist development vs S$100 psf price hike in the Suburbs development. There will be investors who will be keen on the suburbs because of lower risk (due to lower psf paid) and higher or faster gain (due to smaller psf hike to make same return as the prime dist development).

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfire
    One thing about The Clift that really bothers me is the really DAMN slow construction progress. My office overlooks the construction site, and I can hardly find any worker there and a crane that seems to have stalled many weeks ago. what is FEO doing for this project ? I understand that they have not fully launch the units, and so they waiting for ?I heard that the expected TOP is in end 2012 ! and hell FEO is really taking its own sweet time,wondering if this is part of their strategy....really an eye sore to see the project stopped halfway and progress so slowly..
    They are already quite fast le. If you go to visit the site of Hamilton at Scotts Road, practically not much progresses since 2008 till now...

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    Well, then we have different opinions then. No one is wrong, just different perspectives.

    And indeed, at IR, 5 mins to IR and 15 mins to IR do make a lot of difference. I mean just see Orchard vs AMK vs Yishun. 15 mins apart but you know what I mean?


    As for capital appreciation, just take the past 1 year data:-

    MBR trough / peak - 1500 psf / 2980 psf
    Sail trough / peak - 1146 psf / 3205 psf
    One amber trough / peak - Around 800 psf / 1350 psf
    Casa Merah trough / peak - Around 600 psf / 850 psf
    Livia trough / peak - Around 650 psf / 750 psf

    I am ignoring all the facing but it seems the more prime units are having superior appreciation. Take Livia vs MBR. 100% appreciation. How to beat that?


    Quote Originally Posted by Blue
    This I beg to disagree, in fact there will still be upside to the suburbans given the bigger price differential between the prime districts and the suburbs. This is mainly bec we are talking about Singapore which is a tiny small country and the road infrastructure is very well distributed / connected. Would it make a whole lot of difference between travelling 5 mins to IR versus 15 mins to IR?

    Talkign about popularity of the suburbs, just see the hot sales at The Estuary (Yishun / Khatib)...u be surprised cos I'm really surprised!!!

    Simple mathematics:

    Given an investment sum of say, S$2M, you have the choice to either invest in:

    1) Prime District - 1000 sqft @ $2000 psf = S$2M
    2) Suburbs / City Fringe - 2000 sqft @ S$1000 psf = S$2M

    To make S$200K, you need at least a price hike of S$200psf in the Prime Dist development vs S$100 psf price hike in the Suburbs development. There will be investors who will be keen on the suburbs because of lower risk (due to lower psf paid) and higher or faster gain (due to smaller psf hike to make same return as the prime dist development).

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    For 2M in suburbs...i would buy a landed...you must be kidding me...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue
    This I beg to disagree, in fact there will still be upside to the suburbans given the bigger price differential between the prime districts and the suburbs. This is mainly bec we are talking about Singapore which is a tiny small country and the road infrastructure is very well distributed / connected. Would it make a whole lot of difference between travelling 5 mins to IR versus 15 mins to IR?

    Talkign about popularity of the suburbs, just see the hot sales at The Estuary (Yishun / Khatib)...u be surprised cos I'm really surprised!!!

    Simple mathematics:

    Given an investment sum of say, S$2M, you have the choice to either invest in:

    1) Prime District - 1000 sqft @ $2000 psf = S$2M
    2) Suburbs / City Fringe - 2000 sqft @ S$1000 psf = S$2M

    To make S$200K, you need at least a price hike of S$200psf in the Prime Dist development vs S$100 psf price hike in the Suburbs development. There will be investors who will be keen on the suburbs because of lower risk (due to lower psf paid) and higher or faster gain (due to smaller psf hike to make same return as the prime dist development).
    It depends, both represent a 10% increase. Psychologically, it is more appealing to buyer to have $1,500 psf increased to $1,600 rather than a property increased from 600 to 700 psf. Prime dist are easier to rent out as compared to suburbs, so the properties appeals to both investors and owner occupied purchasers, whereas suburbs are mostly for owner occupied. Moreover, for investors who are keen on suburbs, there are many choices/projects they can choose from in the market. hence, not very wise for long term investors to buy suburbs unless they have the intention to move in there, or the unit offers very attractive pricing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfire
    One thing about The Clift that really bothers me is the really DAMN slow construction progress. My office overlooks the construction site, and I can hardly find any worker there and a crane that seems to have stalled many weeks ago. what is FEO doing for this project ? I understand that they have not fully launch the units, and so they waiting for ?I heard that the expected TOP is in end 2012 ! and hell FEO is really taking its own sweet time,wondering if this is part of their strategy....really an eye sore to see the project stopped halfway and progress so slowly..
    I agree that the construction is fairly slow considering the lease began in 2004!

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