Lousy Management Council

[TABee]

Hello

Any comments on how to deal with a lousy Management Council supported by sub standard Managing Agent?

Some will say join the council but when the Chairman is selfish and less than smart, is moving out the best solution?

Any council member here who was involved in a repainting exercise?

Would you paint the floor the ramps leading into and out of the basement car park?

[puffer_fish]

I understand your pains, there are 2 options for you,
1) look at it from another angle, there is someone that is on the ball about where you stay. but the executions of his plans might be half bake but it better than nothing done

2)move out if that really bugs you


one of my estates is currently being painted, the decision process was swift and decisive. as the unit doubles up as my office, the comments from my employees were, the colours chosen looks undated. should be done soon, kudos to the management of River Place.

sometimes just let it be and your life will be more enjoyable . cheers

[TABee]

I understand your pains, there are 2 options for you,
1) look at it from another angle, there is someone that is on the ball about where you stay. but the executions of his plans might be half bake but it better than nothing done

2)move out if that really bugs you


one of my estates is currently being painted, the decision process was swift and decisive. as the unit doubles up as my office, the comments from my employees were, the colours chosen looks undated. should be done soon, kudos to the management of River Place.

sometimes just let it be and your life will be more enjoyable . cheers

Based on current BMSMA, it does seem that unless you are in the committee, so long as the MA and Chairman are supporting each other, there really is little you can do unless you want to gather a few to share the cost of bringing the matter up to STB or mediation which starts from 500 dollars. Add a lawyer, unless you are prepared to fork out at least 5 thousand dollars, just bear with whatever the lousy management does.

[teddybear]

To force changes, unfortunately, you have to be in the committee, and you need to get more fellow independent and impartial owners to join the committee. Then things will be righted because you all can vote on all issues and decisions to be made regarding the running of the estate. The only issue I see will be the Chairman. Still, once you all in the council, there is not much the Chairman can do because the Chairman has only 1 vote, and has no over-riding authority. I heard of cases where Chairman has a bunch of crony council members and also in collusion with the estate manager, such case is more difficult to deal with and you have to get more of you own people in the council than he do to out-vote him. In such case, the first thing to do is to get ride of the estate manager that is in collusion with the Chairman first! (You may have to get ride of the MA company because in the case I know, the MA director is crony of that MCST council Chairman! In this particular case, the MA personnel actually go around spreading rumours about the estate council and no reputable MAs want to take over as MA of the said estate! Luckily 1 fellow council member who is not the Chairman's crony knew somebody from a reputable MA company and invited this company to come in to take over).

You may wonder why the Chairman and his crony go to such extend? Well, they are running the MCST like they own the estate and awarding contracts to their "preferred vendors", which are usually owned by their family members, friends, or business associates and they are awarding contracts to them for future favour and reciprocate from these business associates hoping they will return favor in turn of giving businesses to their companies! And the EM/MA get a cut of some % from these contracts. Whenever you see EM/MA never bother to get more quotes for contracts to be awarded, or you see always the few familiar names and nobody else, and even cases whehter they just get bare min of 3 quotes and all very expensive except their "preferred vendors" except slightly cheaper (yes, only very slightly slightly lower quote), you can suspect something fishy going on............

No need to bring to STB, no point. After bring to STB so what? Would somebody take over and run the place well?

Based on current BMSMA, it does seem that unless you are in the committee, so long as the MA and Chairman are supporting each other, there really is little you can do unless you want to gather a few to share the cost of bringing the matter up to STB or mediation which starts from 500 dollars. Add a lawyer, unless you are prepared to fork out at least 5 thousand dollars, just bear with whatever the lousy management does.

[TABee]

Wah! teddybear sounds so right is experienced.

Very true that MA will give contracts to their own ala 'You rub my back I rub yours' and they rotate cleaners and security round the condos they manage.

If only there was a more professional body looking into the professionalism of the MAs who should have some basic education and be held accountable if found receiving any kickbacks, etc. Some MAs (Grade B lilkely) cannot even write properly.

To force changes, unfortunately, you have to be in the committee, and you need to get more fellow independent and impartial owners to join the committee. Then things will be righted because you all can vote on all issues and decisions to be made regarding the running of the estate. The only issue I see will be the Chairman. Still, once you all in the council, there is not much the Chairman can do because the Chairman has only 1 vote, and has no over-riding authority. I heard of cases where Chairman has a bunch of crony council members and also in collusion with the estate manager, such case is more difficult to deal with and you have to get more of you own people in the council than he do to out-vote him. In such case, the first thing to do is to get ride of the estate manager that is in collusion with the Chairman first! (You may have to get ride of the MA company because in the case I know, the MA director is crony of that MCST council Chairman! In this particular case, the MA personnel actually go around spreading rumours about the estate council and no reputable MAs want to take over as MA of the said estate! Luckily 1 fellow council member who is not the Chairman's crony knew somebody from a reputable MA company and invited this company to come in to take over).

You may wonder why the Chairman and his crony go to such extend? Well, they are running the MCST like they own the estate and awarding contracts to their "preferred vendors", which are usually owned by their family members, friends, or business associates and they are awarding contracts to them for future favour and reciprocate from these business associates hoping they will return favor in turn of giving businesses to their companies! And the EM/MA get a cut of some % from these contracts. Whenever you see EM/MA never bother to get more quotes for contracts to be awarded, or you see always the few familiar names and nobody else, and even cases whehter they just get bare min of 3 quotes and all very expensive except their "preferred vendors" except slightly cheaper (yes, only very slightly slightly lower quote), you can suspect something fishy going on............

No need to bring to STB, no point. After bring to STB so what? Would somebody take over and run the place well?

[bigbertha]

Bro, talk is cheap ... you run for chairman and make things right!

Remember the MC is on volunteer basis - if you want a say or things not right - volunteer and make them right

[stl67]

Bro, talk is cheap ... you run for chairman and make things right!

Remember the MC is on volunteer basis - if you want a say or things not right - volunteer and make them right

yah i still remember in the old condo i stayed. some neighbours complained this and that and when asked them to join the MC, all say "bo eng".. typicall compaint king.. know how to complain but dont want to do work..

[TABee]

Bro, talk is cheap ... you run for chairman and make things right!

Remember the MC is on volunteer basis - if you want a say or things not right - volunteer and make them right

bigbertha... one dirty trick the MA did was date the 1 month before but mailed out SPs received 2 weeks before. Effectively, no AOB could be brought up and people with busy schedule cannot make time to attend the last minute notice.

Another trick was to deny receipt of maintenance funds and then asking for 'proof' which effectively denied the SP the right to vote and be voted.

You do not seem to have been involved in an MC.

[TABee]

yah i still remember in the old condo i stayed. some neighbours complained this and that and when asked them to join the MC, all say "bo eng".. typicall compaint king.. know how to complain but dont want to do work..

st167, what were the complaints? Valid or not? If you say government not doing good job, do you volunteer? If you feel police not doing enough, did you volunteer?

Since the MC has responsibilities, they should take ownership and bear responsibility. Soon, MC will be given an allowance up to 250 dollars a year. Then, SPs will expect even higher standards then 'volunteers' who 'serve for free'.

Were you ever in an MC?

[irisng]

Just to share my experience. My child's friend came to my place to have a swim, he accidentally put his swimming trunk near the heater in the toilet and it caught fire. It burnt part of the wooden walls. We had to pay for it, no insurance coverage by the condo for my case because my chairman said that this was due to our negligent. He got a few quotes for us and the cheapest was $6,000. Later we got our own contractor and it cost us only $900. Few years later I heard that this chairman "eat money" and was asked to step down.

I know MC is very difficult to please everyone but at least they must have the responsibility. Water seeped into my bedroom through the window ledge and spoilt my flooring. I had complained verbally a year back, they only filled up the crack on the ledge outside the window, as for my flooring, they just kept quiet, till now still no action and the person-in-charge had left. Don't know whether can I still complain about this case or not?

[TABee]

Just to share my experience. My child's friend came to my place to have a swim, he accidentally put his swimming trunk near the heater in the toilet and it caught fire. It burnt part of the wooden walls. We had to pay for it, no insurance coverage by the condo for my case because my chairman said that this was due to our negligent. He got a few quotes for us and the cheapest was $6,000. Later we got our own contractor and it cost us only $900. Few years later I heard that this chairman "eat money" and was asked to step down.

I know MC is very difficult to please everyone but at least they must have the responsibility. Water seeped into my bedroom through the window ledge and spoilt my flooring. I had complained verbally a year back, they only filled up the crack on the ledge outside the window, as for my flooring, they just kept quiet, till now still no action and the person-in-charge had left. Don't know whether can I still complain about this case or not?

Chairman eat money should go jail if sufficient proof since it is 'voluntary'

If you have proof of the cause of the damage, why not try bring it up? If repair is cheap then maybe do it at your own cost if the new council people do not entertain.

[teddybear]

Eat money where got so easy for you to bring them to jail because you are unlikely to get hold of all necessary evidences (without the help of their collaborators) unless the police step in?

Chairman eat money should go jail if sufficient proof since it is 'voluntary'

If you have proof of the cause of the damage, why not try bring it up? If repair is cheap then maybe do it at your own cost if the new council people do not entertain.

[irisng]

Chairman eat money should go jail if sufficient proof since it is 'voluntary'

If you have proof of the cause of the damage, why not try bring it up? If repair is cheap then maybe do it at your own cost if the new council people do not entertain.

Too bad, I didn't take any photos during that time. The ex person-in-charge took the photos of the damaged "skirting" twice. Once was during the 1st time I complained but no action taken. 3 months later I complained again and he came and took the photos again, then get the contractor to fill up the crack on the ledge outside my window but no action on my internal "skirting" again. Now he had left, don't know whether are the photos still around.

[TABee]

Too bad, I didn't take any photos during that time. The ex person-in-charge took the photos of the damaged "skirting" twice. Once was during the 1st time I complained but no action taken. 3 months later I complained again and he came and took the photos again, then get the contractor to fill up the crack on the ledge outside my window but no action on my internal "skirting" again. Now he had left, don't know whether are the photos still around.

If the damage is caused by the leak and you can prove it either from records kept by MA/MC or correspondences, no harm trying to ask.

Let us know what the MC/MA response is.

[TABee]

Eat money where got so easy for you to bring them to jail because you are unlikely to get hold of all necessary evidences (without the help of their collaborators) unless the police step in?

Small amount also no point as court time is lengthy and if want to investigate need money which means must get a few SPs to pool funds to investigate and take appropriate action.

Church misuse funds also took many years and lots of money and till now still no clear indication who is the winner/loser.

[irisng]

If the damage is caused by the leak and you can prove it either from records kept by MA/MC or correspondences, no harm trying to ask.

Let us know what the MC/MA response is.

Actually last week I went down to see the MC complaining about another bedroom seepage from the window and at the same time, brought up the previous case, till now also no action yet. Will check with the MC tomorrow again.

[TABee]

Actually last week I went down to see the MC complaining about another bedroom seepage from the window and at the same time, brought up the previous case, till now also no action yet. Will check with the MC tomorrow again.

How much is your maintenance fee per month? MA is paid and MC are volunteers. MC will need tie to discuss. If you stay on high floor, may not be simple task to fix the seepage from the external wall. Sometimes they may wait till repainting when the equipment is available to do the job or they may ask the other SPs to report any seepage and fix all at one shot.

Quality and commitment of MC is important then MA cause MA can change but neighbours and MC not easy to change.

[irisng]

How much is your maintenance fee per month? MA is paid and MC are volunteers. MC will need tie to discuss. If you stay on high floor, may not be simple task to fix the seepage from the external wall. Sometimes they may wait till repainting when the equipment is available to do the job or they may ask the other SPs to report any seepage and fix all at one shot.

Quality and commitment of MC is important then MA cause MA can change but neighbours and MC not easy to change.

Sorry, I think I had spoken to the MA about the seepage.

[TABee]

Ever come across the telecom equipment room being used by the cleaner as a 1 bedder and authorities dragging their feet after report made? The cleaner sleeps in the telecom equipment room with TV, microwave, wardrobe and tables and chairs?

Ever come across the council member allowing the cleaner to come and go as he liked without any official working hours or recording of time in or out of clear job scope?

Cleaner keeps old address on IC but stays in condo telecom equipment room?

[TABee]

www.ura.gov.sg/uol/Surveys/short-term-stay

Please say NO. Past few days several valid NOs on ST Forum.

[Kelonguni]

Would like to say No too. But the feedback is about How?

[TABee]

That's URA and government giving impression they are consultative but will push it to lousy MC and/or MA to manage if this is allowed. Imagine if Chairman is a landlord, what ideas would be implemented? Liquor drinking by the pool, get drunk jump in the pool and a skinny dip, because it is short term stay and private property, you think police will take action? What can guard do at this stage? Report to MC/landlord? Sure subject to abuses.