BEHAVIOURAL ISSUES AT CONDO

[RSG]

Would like fellow Forummers advice on how to handle unreasonable behavioural issues at Condo. Recently one Subsidiary Proprietor (SP) in my condo has some issues with the MA and has been harassing the MA and the staff at the MA office with unreasonable demands so much so that the MA and staff are planning to resign and one staff has already resigned. For example, the SP's bicycle tyre was puncutured and the SP suspects that the MA caused the puncture and demands that the MA and the Security personnel pay for the repair. The condo has experienced other SPs bicycles being punctured in the past but very unreasonable to blame it on the MA. The SP creates a ruckus at the MA Office very often and even chase away the Security when they try to stop her.

[darkseed73]

If that guy dare to raise hand or verbally abuse the MA staff. The staff have the rights to call the police or lodge an official complain to her management.

Just like hospital staff and any other service industry, it's stupid to think that just becos u pay maintenance or taxes all civic service staff is your servant.

Unreasonable behaviour should not be tolaranted.

As neighbours and fellow community members, u should approach his/her family for assistance and try to settle these privately if possible.

[RSG]

If that guy dare to raise hand or verbally abuse the MA staff. The staff have the rights to call the police or lodge an official complain to her management.

Just like hospital staff and any other service industry, it's stupid to think that just becos u pay maintenance or taxes all civic service staff is your servant.

Unreasonable behaviour should not be tolaranted.

As neighbours and fellow community members, u should approach his/her family for assistance and try to settle these privately if possible.

Thanks, darkseed73. Police advice is to settle the issue internally by the MC as it is a private condo unless there is a physical fight etc. The MC members tried and the SP lied low for a few days and started the nonsense again. My feel is that the SP has an ego issue and wants the MA to be replaced and feels that it is his/her right as a SP.

[Cyberknight]

Install CCTV at MC office lor.

As for bicycle issues, if wan also install lor.

Accusation from either sides need evidence.

[teddybear]

Never experience such thing before.

It is MA job to stand firm on what is right and do not sway to unreasonable demands by any SP.

It is council members job to stand firm on what is right and do not sway to unreasonable demands by any SP (hence you can see, being council members are not easy jobs, and there are some who are there whose interest is just to milk the MCST... When they feel they can't milk anymore because they know others are scrutinizing them and their actions, they will resign, same for council Chair and MA).

If SP want MA to do this and that that MA has no authority to, just tell the MA to tell the SP that he/she has no authority to do what she wanted and ask her to write in to put up such request of what she want in AGM for approval, simple right?

If bicycles problem is a concern, install CCTV loh!
If MA can't handle unreasonable SPs, install CCTV (record both video and audio) in MA office loh!

Would like fellow Forummers advice on how to handle unreasonable behavioural issues at Condo. Recently one Subsidiary Proprietor (SP) in my condo has some issues with the MA and has been harassing the MA and the staff at the MA office with unreasonable demands so much so that the MA and staff are planning to resign and one staff has already resigned. For example, the SP's bicycle tyre was puncutured and the SP suspects that the MA caused the puncture and demands that the MA and the Security personnel pay for the repair. The condo has experienced other SPs bicycles being punctured in the past but very unreasonable to blame it on the MA. The SP creates a ruckus at the MA Office very often and even chase away the Security when they try to stop her.

[stalingrad]

Would like fellow Forummers advice on how to handle unreasonable behavioural issues at Condo. Recently one Subsidiary Proprietor (SP) in my condo has some issues with the MA and has been harassing the MA and the staff at the MA office with unreasonable demands so much so that the MA and staff are planning to resign and one staff has already resigned. For example, the SP's bicycle tyre was puncutured and the SP suspects that the MA caused the puncture and demands that the MA and the Security personnel pay for the repair. The condo has experienced other SPs bicycles being punctured in the past but very unreasonable to blame it on the MA. The SP creates a ruckus at the MA Office very often and even chase away the Security when they try to stop her.

What the heck is a subsidiary proprietor? From your description of what has transpired at your condo, the SP seems to be just a resident. What is wrong with using the term resident?

There are people who can distinguish between legal and colloquial terms. It is pain to deal with such people. I reviewed a few manuscripts submitted to academic journals written by authors from Taiwan. They use the term "legal persons" to described what is commonly known as firms. It is really pain to read such papers. I rejected them all just for that. It is just garbage written by those who learn English by memorizing the Chinese-English dictionary. You can memorize or even swallow the whole dictionary, but you still can't engage in a meaningful conversation with someone who speaks English as the mother tongue, or write a simple ad to sell a widget.

[teddybear]

You are kum gong lah!
"resident" may not be owner. You think MA need to care about "resident"? "resident" has no voting right to do anything to the MA!
"subsidary proprietor" is the legal term used in Singapore Strata Title law to refer to the "owner" of a unit in strata titled estate.
So simple you also don't know?!

What the heck is a subsidiary proprietor? From your description of what has transpired at your condo, the SP seems to be just a resident. What is wrong with using the term resident?

There are people who can distinguish between legal and colloquial terms. It is pain to deal with such people. I reviewed a few manuscripts submitted to academic journals written by authors from Taiwan. They use the term "legal persons" to described what is commonly known as firms. It is really pain to read such papers. I rejected them all just for that. It is just garbage written by those who learn English by memorizing the Chinese-English dictionary. You can memorize or even swallow the whole dictionary, but you still can't engage in a meaningful conversation with someone who speaks English as the mother tongue, or write a simple ad to sell a widget.

[teddybear]

deleted [duplicated post]

[RSG]

You are kum gong lah!
"resident" may not be owner. You think MA need to care about "resident"? "resident" has no voting right to do anything to the MA!
"subsidary proprietor" is the legal term used in Singapore Strata Title law to refer to the "owner" of a unit in strata titled estate.
So simple you also don't know?!

Thanks to all Forummers for your views and adv. Teddybear is right in his clarification of the use of SP instead of resident. This is why I used SP as.

[bargain hunter]

is there any condo which doesn't use the term SP?

Thanks to all Forummers for your views and adv. Teddybear is right in his clarification of the use of SP instead of resident. This is why I used SP as.

[RSG]

is there any condo which doesn't use the term SP?

SP is a term used in the Building Maintenance and Strata Management Act to decribe an owner of the property. It applies to all condos in Singapore.

[bargain hunter]

yup, that's what i thought. so i think it is quite the common language.

SP is a term used in the Building Maintenance and Strata Management Act to decribe an owner of the property. It applies to all condos in Singapore.

[stalingrad]

You are kum gong lah!
"resident" may not be owner. You think MA need to care about "resident"? "resident" has no voting right to do anything to the MA!
"subsidary proprietor" is the legal term used in Singapore Strata Title law to refer to the "owner" of a unit in strata titled estate.
So simple you also don't know?!

Then just use the term owner, if you want to quibble.

[stalingrad]

yup, that's what i thought. so i think it is quite the common language.

If you think SP is common, then please use the term "homo sapiens" when you refer to people.

It is definitely not a common term. It is not common even legally in any part of the world. It is a Singapore invention, part of Singlish. No where else would you find such a term used.

[bargain hunter]

yes, it is common in singapore.

i was just asking the other bros, if someone owns a condominium, wouldn't he have come across this term?

If you think SP is common, then please use the term "homo sapiens" when you refer to people.

It is definitely not a common term. It is not common even legally in any part of the world. It is a Singapore invention, part of Singlish. No where else would you find such a term used.

[martialsin]

yes, it is common in singapore.

i was just asking the other bros, if someone owns a condominium, wouldn't he have come across this term?

Subsidiary proprietor is the right term. A tenant can also be a resident but has no voting rights in the management of the condo. Only a subsidiary proprietor can vote and stand for election. This is provide in the Building Maintenance & Strata Management Act and is certainly not Singlish. The Act and its previous acts were based on the Torrens system, an Australian Provision. Nobody refers to residents or owners in the general meetings of the condos. It has always been subsidiary proprietor.

[stalingrad]

Subsidiary proprietor is the right term. A tenant can also be a resident but has no voting rights in the management of the condo. Only a subsidiary proprietor can vote and stand for election. This is provide in the Building Maintenance & Strata Management Act and is certainly not Singlish. The Act and its previous acts were based on the Torrens system, an Australian Provision. Nobody refers to residents or owners in the general meetings of the condos. It has always been subsidiary proprietor.

It doesn't surprise that the term comes from down under. Nowhere else have I heard the term. That said, I still think that using the term sub. proprietor in a forum like this is an overkill, akin to killing a fly with a nuclear device. The term owner would suffice, and connote the same as SP.

[amk]

It doesn't surprise that the term comes from down under. Nowhere else have I heard the term. That said, I still think that using the term sub. proprietor in a forum like this is an overkill, akin to killing a fly with a nuclear device. The term owner would suffice, and connote the same as SP.

Hey ppl explain to you what it means, you should say "thank you" and "sorry I did not know it is not singlish".

And btw in many legal docs, a "person" is a corporation, while a "natural person" is, a , "person"

[stalingrad]

Hey ppl explain to you what it means, you should say "thank you" and "sorry I did not know it is not singlish".

And btw in many legal docs, a "person" is a corporation, while a "natural person" is, a , "person"

Is this forum a legal doc? It it is, I would say "thank you" and apologize. My point is this is not a legal doc or legal forum, why make things so complicated and hard to understand. Do we call each other a homo sapien? Do we refer to tigers as "Panthera tigris". You guys should apologize to me for using silly terms to describe the owner of a condo.

[teddybear]

In this forum, forumers are trying educate some people who don't know the definition of "subsidary proprietor" because this phrase is used in the BMSMA which although is a legal doc needs to be understood by all strata title property owners. Given that you are ignorant of this and still insisting on your stand, you might as well tell Singapore Govt to apologize to you for using this phrase in BMSMA?

And by the way, "owners" is also not the right words to use in BMSMA. The exactly and specific word(s) to use that can only be "correct" is still "subsidary proprietor"!

Is this forum a legal doc? It it is, I would say "thank you" and apologize. My point is this is not a legal doc or legal forum, why make things so complicated and hard to understand. Do we call each other a homo sapien? Do we refer to tigers as "Panthera tigris". You guys should apologize to me for using silly terms to describe the owner of a condo.

[august]

we have an arrogant ignoramus in this thread lol.

[stalingrad]

we have an arrogant ignoramus in this thread lol.

Thank you for admitting that you are arrogant and you are ignorant. The first step toward healing to admit you've got a problem.

Joke aside, I would defy any of you to find a page on the internet not from Singapore that uses the term "subsidiary proprietor" to describe owners of condos. It is just a term from Singapore and only you Singaporeans understand. That is very good example of Singlish, isn't it? I am sure that ris low would use it regularly in her conversation with her fellow SPs.

[Laguna]

sharing a few interesting SP stories here.

1. one woman shouting at MA for 1.5 hours as MA could not agree to her request to send the technician to her unit to fix her electrical problem. The entire drama was captured and played back.
2. one SP set deadline to MA, insisting on her rights to borrow and use the property owns by the estate.
3. one SP wanted to register all his 10 company cars (perhaps some are his relatives') FOC, reason is he does not know which car he will use on which day.

there are too many unreasonable SP / residents around, thinking of they are paying maintenance and thus have the rights to abuse.

[heehee]

Heard of proxy abuse during AGM as well, just like The Sail, where a owner goes around asking other owners to appoint him as their proxy to vote for their "own good"! - like real! These are just people with personal agenda &/or an axe to grind because the MA &/or council did not accede to his demands!
Thus, it is very important that the BMSMA to be amended quickly after public consultation in Oct 2013 - in it new law will restrict any individual cannot be proxy for more than 2% of units in the estate.

sharing a few interesting SP stories here.

1. one woman shouting at MA for 1.5 hours as MA could not agree to her request to send the technician to her unit to fix her electrical problem. The entire drama was captured and played back.
2. one SP set deadline to MA, insisting on her rights to borrow and use the property owns by the estate.
3. one SP wanted to register all his 10 company cars (perhaps some are his relatives') FOC, reason is he does not know which car he will use on which day.

there are too many unreasonable SP / residents around, thinking of they are paying maintenance and thus have the rights to abuse.

[EBD]

Thank you for admitting that you are arrogant and you are ignorant. The first step toward healing to admit you've got a problem.

Joke aside, I would defy any of you to find a page on the internet not from Singapore that uses the term "subsidiary proprietor" to describe owners of condos. It is just a term from Singapore and only you Singaporeans understand. That is very good example of Singlish, isn't it? I am sure that ris low would use it regularly in her conversation with her fellow SPs.

Stalingrad, just to ask the obvious but what it the name of this website?

Is it condocanada, or condofrance ?

[teddybear]

Ha ha ha! epic kum gong - stupid!
Nah, Malaysia also use "subsidiary proprietor", see this webpage:

And Malaysia High Court legal document referring to "subsidiary proprietor":
http://www.highcourt.sabah.sarawak.g....php?id=355262

http://www.gmssolutions.com.my/blog/...uncil-meeting/

Can you now admit that you are just 1 big ignorant fool and stupid idiot trying to act superior and smart?

Thank you for admitting that you are arrogant and you are ignorant. The first step toward healing to admit you've got a problem.

Joke aside, I would defy any of you to find a page on the internet not from Singapore that uses the term "subsidiary proprietor" to describe owners of condos. It is just a term from Singapore and only you Singaporeans understand. That is very good example of Singlish, isn't it? I am sure that ris low would use it regularly in her conversation with her fellow SPs.

[stalingrad]

Ha ha ha! epic kum gong - stupid!
Nah, Malaysia also use "subsidiary proprietor", see this webpage:

And Malaysia High Court legal document referring to "subsidiary proprietor":
http://www.highcourt.sabah.sarawak.g....php?id=355262

http://www.gmssolutions.com.my/blog/...uncil-meeting/

Can you now admit that you are just 1 big ignorant fool and stupid idiot trying to act superior and smart?

If I were you, Teddy, I would not be using Malaysia as my shield. Malaysia has even more language problems than Singapore. One Malaysian minister vowed to give "unqualified support" to international investigation of the downing over Ukraine. The two countries should learn from the outside, instead of from each other.

[Warren49]

If I were you, Teddy, I would not be using Malaysia as my shield. Malaysia has even more language problems than Singapore. One Malaysian minister vowed to give "unqualified support" to international investigation of the downing over Ukraine. The two countries should learn from the outside, instead of from each other.

What's wrong with the term "unqualified support"? I don't see any issue at all. Please explain.

[darkseed73]

I am not sure why this forum has degraded in to such.

Can we focus on the how to handle people with "BEHAVIOURAL ISSUES" instead of arguing legal terms?

We go to court, perhaps u can ask a lawyer for the answer.

For now, lets stick to the topic.

Thank you.