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    Will it work?

    More questions than answers about how effective the federal bailout plan will be.
    CNNMoney.com senior writer
    Last Updated: September 19, 2008: 2:41 PM EDT

    NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Experts are cautiously optimistic that the massive federal bailout of the nation's financial sector will solve the credit crisis that hit Wall Street this week.

    But questions remain about whether it will prevent more failures of banks and Wall Street firms and many doubt this will lead to a quick turnaround for the battered housing market.

    The broad outlines of the plan call for the federal government to buy hundreds of billions of dollars' worth of mortgage assets held by banks, Wall Street firms and other financial institutions.

    Those securities were backed by home loans, many made to buyers with bad credit or without proof of income. As housing values fell and foreclosures shot to record levels in the past two years, the value of those securities plunged. That in turn caused massive losses in the financial sector.

    This week it reached a crisis situation. Banks and investment firms stopped making the loans to each other as they hoarded cash to protect against any sudden liquidity crunch as well from unknown problems on their partners' balance sheets.

    Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke won support for the bailout plan from Congressional leaders in a meeting Thursday night.

    Friday morning, Paulson said he'll be working through the weekend with those on Capitol Hill to hammer out legislation that could go for a vote as soon as next week.

    "I am convinced that this bold approach will cost American families far less than the alternative -- a continuing series of financial institution failures and frozen credit markets unable to fund economic expansion," Paulson said Friday. "I believe many members of Congress share my conviction."

    Word of the plan first leaked Thursday afternoon, causing a massive rally in stocks at the end of the day that carried over into Friday. Several economists also praised the move.

    "I'm confident this will work," said Mark Zandi, chief economist with Moody's Economy.com. "The federal government is committed to backstopping the nation's financial system and will do whatever is necessary to make sure the system does not unravel. The details are important but secondary."

    The plan also won support from presidential candidates John McCain and Barack Obama. Zandi is an informal economic advisor to the McCain campaign.

    Other experts said that while there are obviously big risks to taxpayers, the federal government has little choice but to provide the assurance to financial markets.

    "If this doesn't work, we're in trouble, because there's not much more the government can do," said Jaret Seiberg, a financial services analyst at the Stanford Group. "They've left very few arrows in the quiver."

    More losses, failures expected
    But Seiberg added that the bailout won't completely end the recent turmoil on Wall Street, a crisis that began with the Treasury's seizure of mortgage finance giants Fannie Mae (FNM, Fortune 500) and Freddie Mac (FRE, Fortune 500) earlier this month and escalated this week with the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers (LEH, Fortune 500) and the $85 billion loan to American International Group (AIG, Fortune 500), the world's largest insurer, by the Federal Reserve.

    "What the government is doing now is not suddenly going to make institutions profitable," he said. "What we're talking about is trying to make them stable. That means removing the risk from their balance sheet and putting it on the taxpayer. The government has a much better ability to hold onto that risk for an extended period of time."


    Still, Seiberg is optimistic that the bailout will help home prices finally start to recover since it should lead to lower mortgage rates and improve consumer confidence.

    But others say that there are still enough fundamental problems in housing, including a huge glut of homes for sale and the likelihood of more foreclosures in the pipeline.

    "It should help housing prices find a bottom but I still think it will be about a year from now -- and after prices decline another 10%," said Stuart Hoffman, chief economist for PNC Financial Services Group.

    Nonetheless, even if home prices don't stabilize soon, one expert said the bailout could be a success if it allows bank to stop hoarding cash and once again begin lending to each other, consumers and businesses.

    "The one thing you don't want is to have the economy grind to a halt because people can't get credit," said Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research.

    Baker predicts home prices will fall another 20% even with the bailout but said the decline could become even more severe without passage of the rescue plan.

    "Housing prices were a bubble and you can't stop them from deflating," Baker said. "But [the bailout] might stop an uncontrolled plunge."

    Will Congress pass the bailout?
    Despite the support being voiced by Democrats and Republicans for the plan on Friday, Seiberg said its chance of passage is by no means certain.

    "The odds of this passing are probably around 80% - and those are pretty good odds for Washington," he said. "But it's not a slam dunk."

    Sen. Richard Shelby, the ranking Republican on the Senate Banking Committee, questioned the plan Friday morning, telling CNNMoney.com that he doubts it will be the last federal bailout in the sector that will be needed.

    "Secretary Paulson and Chairman Bernanke have not said ...this is going to contain everything," he said. "They're hoping it is. What they're doing is jumping from crisis to crisis. I haven't seen a comprehensive plan yet."

    He wouldn't commit to supporting the measure.

    "This is too big to just accept without knowing what it does, who pays for it and is this the end of it," he said. "It's true that there's stress in the financial markets. But should we bail out everybody? We know it's important to the financial system, but at what price?"

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    Default montview condo

    Virtual tour,photos,floor plan,elevation.....all in http://www.virtualhomes.sg/montview

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    How is this development doing now? Rental? Selling price? Don't seem to see many units for sale on the market.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moneyspinner
    How is this development doing now? Rental? Selling price? Don't seem to see many units for sale on the market.
    One owner asking for 1184psf just last weekend. Layout of the apartments there are not good, next to a major construction now (Trizone). Rather shock with sellers' expectations for that location, compareed vis-a-vis with developments like Rivergate, Cosmopolitan...etc potentially also asking for similar 1180-1250psf pricing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dun bullshit us lah
    10-15 mins is when there is no traffic.

    with rush hour traffic is about an hour.
    Wah lao eh, nonsense lah.. i used to stay in clementi, driving to orchard is less than 10 mins. During peak hours, at most 20 mins.

    1 hour? Tsk tsk tsk..


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    Quote Originally Posted by nusnam
    Wah lao eh, nonsense lah.. i used to stay in clementi, driving to orchard is less than 10 mins. During peak hours, at most 20 mins.

    1 hour? Tsk tsk tsk..

    agree ...

    i stay in pasir panjang .. going via the south buona vista winding road ..to holland road to orchard also less than 25 mins ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    agree ...

    i stay in pasir panjang .. going via the south buona vista winding road ..to holland road to orchard also less than 25 mins ...
    Yes, people living in the west coast/Pasir Panjang area have always wondered why there is a such a large gap in condo prices between our area and D10. From our area, the CBD is only 10 to 20 minutes away, including orchard road and suntec. But property prices for our area are one half the level for properties in D10. It therefore is a no brainer to live in the west coast. We are blessed with low population density, but high rent income thanks to NUS, and Science parks. We are also blessed with AYE, and west coast highway, which bring us to all corners of Singapore within half an hour.

    Yesterday, me, my wife and kids went to visit Verdure on holland road. The development is right on holland road. the noise and pollution levels are about the same as those at the infiniti. which means awful. the agent told me that most units are only 50 meters away from the hustle and bustle of holland road. Then, why would anyone be crazy enough to pay 1,400 psf to live there than to live in D5 and paying only 600 psf.

    It is just no brainer to me. the only explanation I can think of is herd mentality. If the rich and famous live in D10, we want the same. well, some of us smart people don't want to pollution and noise of d10. We are happy where we are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stalingrad
    Yes, people living in the west coast/Pasir Panjang area have always wondered why there is a such a large gap in condo prices between our area and D10. From our area, the CBD is only 10 to 20 minutes away, including orchard road and suntec. But property prices for our area are one half the level for properties in D10. It therefore is a no brainer to live in the west coast. We are blessed with low population density, but high rent income thanks to NUS, and Science parks. We are also blessed with AYE, and west coast highway, which bring us to all corners of Singapore within half an hour.

    Yesterday, me, my wife and kids went to visit Verdure on holland road. The development is right on holland road. the noise and pollution levels are about the same as those at the infiniti. which means awful. the agent told me that most units are only 50 meters away from the hustle and bustle of holland road. Then, why would anyone be crazy enough to pay 1,400 psf to live there than to live in D5 and paying only 600 psf.

    It is just no brainer to me. the only explanation I can think of is herd mentality. If the rich and famous live in D10, we want the same. well, some of us smart people don't want to pollution and noise of d10. We are happy where we are.
    hahaha thanks for the support D5-ian

    yes Vendure location is not bad ..but sadly ..it will be the same as Botannika .. nice view on one side ..but noisy on the the side ...

    my friend rented a 3 bedroom in botannika for 7.5k ... ahahaha while a 4 bedder in west side can fetch a rent of 6.5-7.5k but the quantum is half of D10 ...

    go buy the latest FORM magazine ...a huge unit at Pepys hill ..renovated ..so so nice inside and the view is fantastic .. and read what the write about living in the west ...

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    Talk of pollution and noise, the West Coast & Pasir Panjang area is one of the worst. We have all the transportation lorries running along West Coast every day and night from the ports nearby, releasing free lots of free "perfumes" by the way. We have the refineries and chemical plants releasing free "perfumes" nearby. From West Coast to Orchard is not too far by distance but traffic is usually so heavy that it takes 30 mins or even much more during peak hours. Of course, when things are cheap, there usually is for some reason (otherwise price will have corrected to sensible equilibrium after so long). Nevertheless, for anybody who aspires to own a private condo but mindful of budget, having one is better than having none.

    Quote Originally Posted by stalingrad
    Yes, people living in the west coast/Pasir Panjang area have always wondered why there is a such a large gap in condo prices between our area and D10. From our area, the CBD is only 10 to 20 minutes away, including orchard road and suntec. But property prices for our area are one half the level for properties in D10. It therefore is a no brainer to live in the west coast. We are blessed with low population density, but high rent income thanks to NUS, and Science parks. We are also blessed with AYE, and west coast highway, which bring us to all corners of Singapore within half an hour.

    Yesterday, me, my wife and kids went to visit Verdure on holland road. The development is right on holland road. the noise and pollution levels are about the same as those at the infiniti. which means awful. the agent told me that most units are only 50 meters away from the hustle and bustle of holland road. Then, why would anyone be crazy enough to pay 1,400 psf to live there than to live in D5 and paying only 600 psf.

    It is just no brainer to me. the only explanation I can think of is herd mentality. If the rich and famous live in D10, we want the same. well, some of us smart people don't want to pollution and noise of d10. We are happy where we are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    Talk of pollution and noise, the West Coast & Pasir Panjang area is one of the worst. We have all the transportation lorries running along West Coast every day and night from the ports nearby, releasing free lots of free "perfumes" by the way. We have the refineries and chemical plants releasing free "perfumes" nearby. From West Coast to Orchard is not too far by distance but traffic is usually so heavy that it takes 30 mins or even much more during peak hours. Of course, when things are cheap, there usually is for some reason (otherwise price will have corrected to sensible equilibrium after so long). Nevertheless, for anybody who aspires to own a private condo but mindful of budget, having one is better than having none.
    correct ..thats why people pay 1700 psf for pigeon hole in devonshire area, and alexis in alexandra area .. cos they CANT afford anything too high above 1 mio ...

    whats the point of staying in PRIME area when you can only afford a 400 sqft ?

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    You may be right in a way but I suppose that is a matter of personal preference. These people buying the 400 sqft house may be either singles or childless couples (and don't intend to have kids anyway - know many of such people), old people living alone etc who may want to live within walking distance to Orchard Road for large varieties of shop & dine & drink etc. There may also be investors buying to rent out to such expatriates without kids who don't need a big house or company don't cater for anyway. As such, there is no reason to judge that just because they buy a small private property means they can't afford anything above $1m.

    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    correct ..thats why people pay 1700 psf for pigeon hole in devonshire area, and alexis in alexandra area .. cos they CANT afford anything too high above 1 mio ...

    whats the point of staying in PRIME area when you can only afford a 400 sqft ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    You may be right in a way but I suppose that is a matter of personal preference. These people buying the 400 sqft house may be either singles or childless couples (and don't intend to have kids anyway - know many of such people), old people living alone etc who may want to live within walking distance to Orchard Road for large varieties of shop & dine & drink etc. There may also be investors buying to rent out to such expatriates without kids who don't need a big house or company don't cater for anyway. As such, there is no reason to judge that just because they buy a small private property means they can't afford anything above $1m.
    so you think that those billion dollar condos along orchard road and along Holland road are not getting their daily doses of free perfume? Haha, you must be living in a barn. I just gave you a description of Verdure. Couldn't you read?

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    Are You trying to tell me that there are refineries and chemical plants within 1-2km of Orchard & Holland Road? These are the ones that produce the most "free perfumes". Obviously, some people may like it and it is a matter of personal preference. On the other hand, to say that Orchard Rd & Holland Rd has as much "free perfumes" as West Coast where these plants are located nearby may be twisting the fact too far. Anyway, we know there are such people around everywhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by stalingrad
    so you think that those billion dollar condos along orchard road and along Holland road are not getting their daily doses of free perfume? Haha, you must be living in a barn. I just gave you a description of Verdure. Couldn't you read?

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    Are You trying to tell me that there are refineries and chemical plants within 1-2km of Orchard & Holland Road? These are the ones that produce the most "free perfumes". Obviously, some people may like it and it is a matter of personal preference. On the other hand, to say that Orchard Rd & Holland Rd has as much "free perfumes" as West Coast where these plants are located nearby may be twisting the fact too far. Anyway, we know there are such people around everywhere.
    I am trying to tell you that with the high volume of traffic on hollard and orchard road, the air there is as foul as that at west coast, if not more so. Yes, we are close to the refineries, but so are orchard road and hollard road. We are 3 miles away, and orchard road and hollad road are 5 miles away. that is very little difference. if there is mass poisoning, you will be not be spared.

    that is what I am trying to tell you.

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    Good to have such 'Ah Q' spirit though, just like what I had over-heard some Malaysians laughing at the Singaporeans for paying for much for their properties in Jurong West whereas they lived in Malaysia near 2nd Causeway and come to work in Singapore everyday and the distance between the 2 properties are not even more than 1 mile away. They said: "Why pay more than $1m for a semi-D in Jurong West when it costs only $150k in Malaysia near 2nd Causeway?"

    Quote Originally Posted by stalingrad
    I am trying to tell you that with the high volume of traffic on hollard and orchard road, the air there is as foul as that at west coast, if not more so. Yes, we are close to the refineries, but so are orchard road and hollard road. We are 3 miles away, and orchard road and hollad road are 5 miles away. that is very little difference. if there is mass poisoning, you will be not be spared.

    that is what I am trying to tell you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    Good to have such 'Ah Q' spirit though, just like what I had over-heard some Malaysians laughing at the Singaporeans for paying for much for their properties in Jurong West whereas they lived in Malaysia near 2nd Causeway and come to work in Singapore everyday and the distance between the 2 properties are not even more than 1 mile away. They said: "Why pay more than $1m for a semi-D in Jurong West when it costs only $150k in Malaysia near 2nd Causeway?"
    actually makes sense ...

    i know of singaporeans .. workingat woodlands ...actually DONT own any property in singapore ..but in JB .. he drives into spore and back to JB EVERYDAY ...its been over 30 yrs that theyve been doing that ...

    if i work in NORTH NORTH spore i would consider that ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    Good to have such 'Ah Q' spirit though, just like what I had over-heard some Malaysians laughing at the Singaporeans for paying for much for their properties in Jurong West whereas they lived in Malaysia near 2nd Causeway and come to work in Singapore everyday and the distance between the 2 properties are not even more than 1 mile away. They said: "Why pay more than $1m for a semi-D in Jurong West when it costs only $150k in Malaysia near 2nd Causeway?"
    The malaysians would have a point if malaysia is as safe as singapore, as race blind as singapore, and as developed as singapore. You point is not relevant. you have to do better.

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    I've many Malaysia friends. Many has studied & worked in Singapore for ages. They've planted their roots here. Some bought HDB, some bought condo. These are white collars professionals. I'm not referring to blue collars working in Singapore. Some has even become Singapore Citizen.
    They want their children to enjoy the english based education system, the equality, etc. Something which they don't enjoy in their homeland.

    Some even told me how lucky Singaporen are having such good living environment, good transports, etc. Try spend some time talking to your Malaysian friends, you'll be surprised that they have plans to migrate to mainly ANZ or SG.

    For most Malaysian blue collars working here, they'll prefer to travel between Singapore & JB daily or rent a HDB room. These are the group that can't afford the properties in Singapore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PN
    I've many Malaysia friends. Many has studied & worked in Singapore for ages. They've planted their roots here. Some bought HDB, some bought condo. These are white collars professionals. I'm not referring to blue collars working in Singapore. Some has even become Singapore Citizen.
    They want their children to enjoy the english based education system, the equality, etc. Something which they don't enjoy in their homeland.

    Some even told me how lucky Singaporen are having such good living environment, good transports, etc. Try spend some time talking to your Malaysian friends, you'll be surprised that they have plans to migrate to mainly ANZ or SG.

    For most Malaysian blue collars working here, they'll prefer to travel between Singapore & JB daily or rent a HDB room. These are the group that can't afford the properties in Singapore.
    wrong

    that friend of mine has business here in spore ... they have money ...

    anyway there will be those who choose to 'live' equal standard 'within the house' (not environment) ...

    there will be those who choose to tighten belt to live like 'royals' ... (i know of people who live in pigeon hole, drives sports car, best credit card customers, never pay bill in full lah .. living luxuriously in credits)

    so no right or wrong ...

    i also know malaysians who are now spore PR .. and even australian CITIZEN ... holding 3 passports ... and working here ... make money here .. family live and kids study in australia ... and will retire there ... and all these 10 yrs in spore also never ever own a property here ... and WHITE collar executives ... who knows a better standard of living in australia then to settle here in spore ...

    at every level, there are people of every mentalities ..

    so buy whatever you can afford, and happy, inside the house, good enough

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    we are lucky to be able to stay within Singapore and pay reasonable prices for our condos, unlikely those in D10.

    But the point I was making is still valid. that is, there is no reason for the gap in condo prices between D10 and D5. At least, no economic reasons. If people still flock to D10 for whatever reason, rational or not rational, let them. We are happy to be where we are, waiting for the price convergence to occur in the future. it will occur soon or later. It has occurred to a certain extent. While condo prices for CBD have dropped 30% or more, those for CBD have barely moved.

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    Thanks for your support. This is precisely what I am trying to convey. These Malaysians are exhibiting the "Ah Q" spirit. Just because they can't effort to live in Singapore, they are saying no reason to live in Singapore paying so much vs living in Malaysia paying so little for a similar property. Similarly, somebody here is saying that D5 should be no difference from Holland Rd & Orchard Rd despite the former having extra heavy dose of "free perfumes" from all these petrol and chemical refineries nearby and the latter having the advantage of being near to a vast varieties of shops & eateries & amenities & also the enjoyment of walking along the beautifully decorated & lighted Orchard Rd in the evening (Govt just spent $40m to beautify the place & Botanic Garden nearby by the way). Considering that people pay so much for D9 & D10 properties and so little for D5, he is expecting that one day his D5 property price will be almost the same as D9 & D10 since they are only miles apart right?
    Unfortunately, this has not happened for the past donkey decade years and don't think will ever happen in the next donkey decade years (unless a nuclear bomb drop in Singapore). As the song goes "DREAM DREAM DREAM... DREAM DREAM DREAM...". It's good to DREAM ON but by the way better don't halucinate the dream to appear like reality because IMH is waiting for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by stalingrad
    The malaysians would have a point if malaysia is as safe as singapore, as race blind as singapore, and as developed as singapore. You point is not relevant. you have to do better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    Thanks for your support. This is precisely what I am trying to convey. These Malaysians are exhibiting the "Ah Q" spirit. Just because they can't effort to live in Singapore, they are saying no reason to live in Singapore paying so much vs living in Malaysia paying so little for a similar property. Similarly, somebody here is saying that D5 should be no difference from Holland Rd & Orchard Rd despite the former having extra heavy dose of "free perfumes" from all these petrol and chemical refineries nearby and the latter having the advantage of being near to a vast varieties of shops & eateries & amenities & also the enjoyment of walking along the beautifully decorated & lighted Orchard Rd in the evening (Botanic Garden nearby by the way). Considering that people pay so much for D9 & D10 properties and so little for D5, he is expecting that one day his D5 property price will be almost the same as D9 & D10 since they are only miles apart right?
    Unfortunately, this has not happened for the past donkey decade years and don't think will ever happen in the next donkey decade years (unless a nuclear bomb drop in Singapore). As the song goes "DREAM DREAM DREAM... DREAM DREAM DREAM...". It's good to DREAM ON but by the way better don't halucinate the dream to appear like reality because IMH is waiting for you.
    what Stalligrad also said was ...

    D10 price fell some 40 pct from the high ... while D5 fell only 20 pct ..

    so taking Ardmore II as example ... high 2600 psf ...fell to last 1600 psf .. thats a wopping 1.8 mio ... can buy a PH in D5 , FH , easily ...

    so they can afford to lose it .. sure .. rich but not very intelligent

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    You are right, D10 fell 40% from high while D5 fell much less. Does this mean the people who buy D10 are rich but stupid? I wonder how they get so rich by the way if they are stupid? In comparison, the so-called "intelligent" ones living in D5 are so much poorer by the way - don't know why the D5 dwellers' intelligence didn't make them much more money by the way?

    As far as I know, the really rich who have so much money and don't need to slough on work are the ones supporting & buying D9 & D10 properties rather than buying somewhere else (such as D5) although those are much cheaper. May be they as a bunch are so stupid when it comes to buying property as some suggested? (for that I don't know although there is no denying that they are definitely very smart to get so rich in the first place).

    Oh by the way, the size of each Ardmore II condo is as big as many of the PHs in D5. While many of these Ardmore II condo is not a PH, they rather buy a non-PH in D10 than a PH in D5.

    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    what Stalligrad also said was ...

    D10 price fell some 40 pct from the high ... while D5 fell only 20 pct ..

    so taking Ardmore II as example ... high 2600 psf ...fell to last 1600 psf .. thats a wopping 1.8 mio ... can buy a PH in D5 , FH , easily ...

    so they can afford to lose it .. sure .. rich but not very intelligent

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    Most buyers of condos in prime areas are foreigners, namely chinese and indonesians. Why do they park money in Singapore, and where and how did they get the money? That is another issue that is better left to an political forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stalingrad
    Most buyers of condos in prime areas are foreigners, namely chinese and indonesians. Why do they park money in Singapore, and where and how did they get the money? That is another issue that is better left to an political forum.
    also dist 9 ... so many projects rented to 'club girls '... hahaha

    also alot of rich people are old wealth ... their ancestors lucky to have bought land there ..

    look at watten area ..last time swamp land ..if not for the canal ..it would still be swamp ..

    these old rich people donated land to build schools etc etc ... you think that area will still be 'expensive' if not for the canal and the school ?

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    anyway i own 2 properties in D5 ... both rented out at very good yield ..

    and i am relocating soon .. so just collect rent lor ...

    i wont be contributing to this forum as often as now ..but definitely will be keeping an eye on the development of those 1000-2500 psf projects in D9/10/11 from far far away Manhattan ...

    good luck

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    Can afford high-priced manhattan properties? You must be rich man. Manhattan condo prices are much higher, at 2,000 or 3,000 psf. unless you get a chicken coop unit. haha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stalingrad
    Can afford high-priced manhattan properties? You must be rich man. Manhattan condo prices are much higher, at 2,000 or 3,000 psf. unless you get a chicken coop unit. haha.
    yes it is expensive there ,,.. BUT the 2 bedrooms can range from 900 - 1800 sqft .. EXCLUDING any balcony or terrace ..can you beat that ??

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    Aiyah, it's not about D10 being rich people and D5 being poor. I know afew associates, one of them CEO, staying in Kembangan but earning millions each year. So what if they are rich, it's their choice if they wanna splurge on expensive units.

    wow.. proud owner, which part of manhattan?

  30. #90
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,419

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    Quote Originally Posted by proud owner
    yes it is expensive there ,,.. BUT the 2 bedrooms can range from 900 - 1800 sqft .. EXCLUDING any balcony or terrace ..can you beat that ??
    cannot beat that. but given that price correction has not come to an end in the US, you better wait a bit before buying. don't want you to be like teddybear and others and buy at market peaks.

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