CPF board raises its minimum sum to $155k

[teddybear]

CPF min sum $200k still not enough means min wage also way too low?

Think they should peg CPF min sum increase to min wage increase to be more consistent in their policy???????????????????

Actually, if you exclude housing and you don't need to support anybody else except yourself, $1000 per month for food and basic necessity is actually enough. It is not enough because of GST (which is expect to keep increasing and hence $1000 per month that is enough now become grossly insufficient 20 years down the road)?

Actually, in Sg, with inflation and if no children and no savings, may not be enough.

[hopeful]

http://www.condosingapore.com/forums...ad.php?t=17656
May last year also cpf increase.

http://www.condosingapore.com/forums...7&postcount=71
My view on working versus non-working age.

I find this govt is chicken, dont want to have difficult conversation with the citizens, I prefer straight talk 1st gen pap govt.

I read this somewhere and I agree.
Cpf is a ponzi. But a bigger myth is you can retire for years without any economic output.
You can save money.
But u cannot save goods, u cannot save energy, you cannot save services now so thar u can spend later.

Last time, in agricultural society, u can retire only if ur children can support. If children cannot support, u either continue to work or die.

Nowadays, peopls want to retire early and use their pension/cpf to exchange their paper money for real goods, real energy and real services.
this can work for a while if population is increasing.
but the current demographics (ferility 1.2) will ensure th sooner rather later, there will be more non-productive retirees than productive young.

Using farming again, last time, 2 adults can grow enough rice to feed themselves, 2 aged and 2 kids.
with declining fertility and aging sociery, the same 2 adults are supposed to grow enough rice to feed 4 aged peopel and 1 kid.

When theere is no surplus rice, the 2 working adults will tell the 4 old people, there is not enough to feed you, your money/cpf is not good. Either the 4 retirees work to grow rice (end of retirement) or they died,

The real problem facing singapore is the demographics, the declining birth rate and aging society. We singaporeans are sowing the seeds of our own destruction.

Unless you can store electricity, food, services now so that u can consume later, u need to depend on the working people to provide electricity, food, services in the future.

When resouces are scarce, less young, more old, you can safely bet ur cpf money is not evr going to be enough, you continue to work or u die.,
ur claims to cpf are simply not good.

[hopeful]

You can save money.
but u cannot live on money.
u need to convert these money for goods and services.

Govt is printing infinite money, but they cannot print goods snd services.

So when there is not enough young to provide goods and services for themselves, not to mention the retirees. The young will tell the elderly, your money is no good.
Gtow ur own food
what will u exchanges with me for this sack of tice.

People live longer. Demand for goods and services are higher.
less young, supplier of goods and services are lesser.

What haapens when demand > supply?
Price up.

Ageing society is one reason why ur cpf min sum is being raised.

Woman, do ur NS duty. 2 kids in 2 years

One more thing, last people take care of own parent retirees.
using cpf as a collective pension scheme, the decreasing number of youth is expected to take care of OTHER peoples' s parents????

[phantom_opera]

u can hedge future energy price hike

u can go to Malaysia buy some oil palm lands ... no need to do anything just outsource to someone to manage

if in the future oil price is 10x of now, your oil palm land / production will huat 20x

I guess this is what Jim Roger is talking about ... in the future bankers will work for farmers (resource owners)

back to the min sum, the amount (155k) is so small to the upper middle class & the rich that it is not worth talking about .. in fact some happily do voluntary contribution to get some tax rebate, treating it like a 20y bond

Japan GPIF return only 2% ... but inflation is zero ...

[minority]

frankly transfering 75K from Ordinary and 45K in Special acct to a retirement acct and get paid for life is a good deal.

sine the 1st 75K most people pledge their HDB home as collateral.

If the payment $1200 pm from CPF life then 8 yrs take back. after that are all upside. ok what?

For those who never plan mis plan this will be a life save. for those who did this is a extra pocket $.

[richwang]

if I remember correctly 50% of min sum can be pledge with property. so effectively ordinary acct only need 75K.

Be careful!
If you have S$155K in your CPF OA+SA, ALL of them will be locked up when you reach 55. (OK, you can withdraw S$5k.)

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/cpf_trans/ssl...l/wdl_cal2.asp

If you have less than S$155K, your property will be locked up as well (CPF Board will have the first claim.)

Thanks,
Richard

[richwang]

You need to have more than S$155K + S$$43.5K = S$198.5K
in order to withdraw cash.

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/cpf_trans/ssl...assumption.asp

[Patrickstar]

singaporeans paying for pty using cpf is the most stupid thing. I don't think they know that the accrued interest works against them coz they are effectively paying their own interest n the govt can save money.

[Kelonguni]

singaporeans paying for pty using cpf is the most stupid thing. I don't think they know that the accrued interest works against them coz they are effectively paying their own interest n the govt can save money.

Just asking. If you never sell the property, how would the accrued interest affect you?

[mummy]

Fact and figure please, lot of believe everywhere don't be one of them.

Do you believe Bank create money.

Someone in HWZ quoted Dr Toh Chin Chye as saying the CPF is basically a loan to our govt. Another had a source from govt website as saying GIC liabilities to CPF. So I believe the abnormal high rate of increase of minimum sum exceeding the inflation rate is to compensate for the billions in losses by GIC.

[smallant]

Each of us $200k struck im cpf.. tat a lot lot of $$ for swf to lose. Thinky grandmother or monkeys can manage those funds better. Disappointed tat not a single mp make noise on rationale n inflation claims etc. . Sigh....

[mummy]

Each of us $200k struck im cpf.. tat a lot lot of $$ for swf to lose. Thinky grandmother or monkeys can manage those funds better. Disappointed tat not a single mp make noise on rationale n inflation claims etc. . Sigh....

And is the CPF Life payout even guaranteed. Some say it is not...thank God I do not have CPF contributions now...better to depend on ourselve for our retirement...

I have 2 MP friends, one is Janil, my senior when I did Paeds and the other Sim Ann , my GEP classmate and supposedly one of the brains behind operation open FT floodgate. But with the PAP whip, how to ask them to raise it up?

[chestnut]

1. Does employer contribute to CPF???
2. Does it mean additional amount to you???
3. Can you encash it out through rental??? - if you scared... Hahaha
4. At the same time you scared you lose out on interest
5. Can you use the amount to pay for properties???
6. Can you use the amount for shares investment??

[NorthernStar]

Someone in HWZ quoted Dr Toh Chin Chye as saying the CPF is basically a loan to our govt. Another had a source from govt website as saying GIC liabilities to CPF. So I believe the abnormal high rate of increase of minimum sum exceeding the inflation rate is to compensate for the billions in losses by GIC.

quite surprise that ppl actually don know the cpf increase was planed since 2003 and will last till 2015.


http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/Members/CPFS...mSumScheme.htm

[minority]

Be careful!
If you have S$155K in your CPF OA+SA, ALL of them will be locked up when you reach 55. (OK, you can withdraw S$5k.)

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/cpf_trans/ssl...l/wdl_cal2.asp

If you have less than S$155K, your property will be locked up as well (CPF Board will have the first claim.)

Thanks,
Richard

well 75K in OA acct and 75K pledge from own prop which is my roof which have no intention to sell and 45K from SA acct. so infact is 75K + 45K right? and with a drawn down of 1200pm. 8yrs is all it takes to take back and the rest of the years are upside.

[mummy]

quite surprise that ppl actually don know the cpf increase was planed since 2003 and will last till 2015.


http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/Members/CPFS...mSumScheme.htm

But if you look carefully at the figures, there was a sharp increment to 11k from about 5k in 2009 and to about 8k after 2009. I do not believe it is totally an inflation adjustment only.

The drawdown age is also increasing and dunno what it will be by my age and I am sure after 2015 the minimum sum will only increase and prob by more now with CPF Life. The payout is also not guaranteed but depends on the boards's undisclosed calculation methods right?

The CPF has slow lost many people's trust like what Dr Toh Chin Chye said. Even my own family members losing their trust though used to be staunch PAP supporters.

Even Lim Swee Say was quoted as saying CPF if still around in one of his speeches.

Essentially, it is a 20% " tax" on yr income this system which is used to partly to fund yrs and others retirement.

[ming sin]

i think if you take the 75k pledge amount out then the drawn down 1200pm will also be reduced accordingly. I am not too sure how it works but I did enquire at cpf earlier.

[smallant]

SA is very hardworking.. been visiting her ward every now n then trying to feel the ground etc.. hope she will be more like lily neo or tancb instead of following the line.
during the mtp session, one of my friend went to see her with some problems. Was told she tried but followed up was rather lacking.... so.. no comments. ... ;-)

[mummy]

i think if you take the 75k pledge amount out then the drawn down 1200pm will also be reduced accordingly. I am not too sure how it works but I did enquire at cpf earlier.

This is an important point to note.

Many will also not be able to meet the minimum sum at this rate. Even a friend of mine is lamenting that she has difficulty even without buying any property.

CPF Life is a carrot by PAP as elections are coming....with the way they introduce changes yearly at a mind boggling rate that it is difficult even for me to keep up what more the elderly...we must really think carefully who we vote. After WP is given more seats, there have been positive changes. I believe too much money is at stake.

[mummy]

SA is very hardworking.. been visiting her ward every now n then trying to feel the ground etc.. hope she will be more like lily neo or tancb instead of following the line.
during the mtp session, one of my friend went to see her with some problems. Was told she tried but followed up was rather lacking.... so.. no comments. ... ;-)

She is a President Scholar. When we were young, we used to joke she will be a future PM if Singapore and now she is rising fast.

[Kelonguni]

https://sg.finance.yahoo.com/news/ev...160000190.html

[amk]

Coming from finance / banking industry, I must say CPF is one of the best systems designed. I can see many laymen not understanding the benefits of it, but I find it hard to comprehend so many well educated ppl in this forum disputing the merits of it.

Think CPF contribution as a tax but in the form of a loan to gov. And you can borrow against this loan to fund your property and even stocks investment (when you "use your CPF money" you are just doing this). Your CPF fund is a bit like perp bond issued to gov where gov is obliged to deliver you a 2.5% or 4% return.

Minimum sum and etc is inevitable and will raise every year , especially to suit CPF Life, where your loan to gov truly become perp bond. Gov is buying the whole population an annuity plan, much much better than individual insurance companies cheating individuals with their annuity offerings. Gov is taking on this liability for you.

I dun wish to sound like a PAP "fan". Strictly from commercial perspective, this CPF system is the best system we can get from PAP, it ranks higher than HDB in my opinion. The other flip side of this system is that the gov has a stable and cheap funding ( yes cheap funding) from all of us. This actually ensures the gov can have a healthy operating fiscal environment, that does not subject to mkt risk. This is very important for a city state. All we have is a trust from the market. S$ is worth this much because market believe we dun have a deficit problem.

[amk]

And structurally speaking, how to take care of retirement, our CPF system is much better than others. Western world is basically doing borrowing more and more now to balloon the current budget, and therefore increase future liabilities. That is now proven to be not sustainable. Ours is not perfect, but it is a better approach. At least it is self running. It ensures the majority of the ppl (I.e., who has a decent job over his life) can have a decent retirement. And it instills the concept that you are still responsible for your own retirement.

Many say "I can do it better myself". Sure, but you are obliged to help others by pooling your 20%. This is what this SG passport means. That also means it will not get as high as return as you would do it yourself, but you help to make this country to have a better deal on the population , and the fiscal position, which in turn ensures your password and S$ worth something.

Many poor old folks just hate the idea "I can't take CPF after x yrs". but I know many of them who take the money, and splurge on KTV chinameimeis. To them, this is LIFE for them, for once to indulge. Whatever after, "who cares, somehow gov will take care of me"

[minority]

Agree with AMK view

[minority]

But if you look carefully at the figures, there was a sharp increment to 11k from about 5k in 2009 and to about 8k after 2009. I do not believe it is totally an inflation adjustment only.

The drawdown age is also increasing and dunno what it will be by my age and I am sure after 2015 the minimum sum will only increase and prob by more now with CPF Life. The payout is also not guaranteed but depends on the boards's undisclosed calculation methods right?

The CPF has slow lost many people's trust like what Dr Toh Chin Chye said. Even my own family members losing their trust though used to be staunch PAP supporters.

Even Lim Swee Say was quoted as saying CPF if still around in one of his speeches.

Essentially, it is a 20% " tax" on yr income this system which is used to partly to fund yrs and others retirement.

the other option is pay a flat 45% tax to fund other people retirement too. and I think there are many speculation on where the $ go or increase. but to be fair people expectation on retirement will only continue to grow.

[irisng]

if I remember correctly 50% of min sum can be pledge with property. so effectively ordinary acct only need 75K.

I have received a letter from the CPF Board. Min sum set aside is $148k, to be transferred to RA. It never pledge with my property leh, how to pledge it?

[irisng]

The amount that allowed me to withdraw is so little that is just enough for my family's tour.

[minority]

I have received a letter from the CPF Board. Min sum set aside is $148k, to be transferred to RA. It never pledge with my property leh, how to pledge it?

give them a call...

http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/NR/rdonlyres...ertyPledge.pdf

[irisng]

$1200 pm is already more than the min wage and without kids to feed and raise!
So why still need to raise min sum?
Or are they telling us that min wage of $1000 pm is grossly insufficient to survive in Singapore?

If I remember correctly, was it mentioned earlier that a person with $1000 income can afford to buy a HDB flat?

[irisng]

give them a call...

http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/NR/rdonlyres...ertyPledge.pdf

Thanks, as it mentioned, it will pledge automatically but why mine is not pledged, funny leh.