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Thread: Why condo units are shrinking

  1. #1
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    Default Why condo units are shrinking

    Why condo units are shrinking
    Published on May 7, 2014 1:13 AM 7 10 0 0PRINT EMAIL
    PRIVATE developers are only meeting the growing demand for smaller condominium units ("Condo units shrinking: Report"; April 28).

    I know of people who are holding on to their HDB flats and buying small private condo units either to rent out, or to live in while renting out their HDB units, hence turning the subsidised flats into "long-term cash cows".

    As they are not selling their flats, they cannot pay a large quantum for the condo units, which leads to growing demand for "downsized" apartments.

    Letting HDB flat owners rent out their units for profit, when they can afford private property, goes against the HDB's mission of providing affordable homes for the masses.

    A subsidised flat that is being used to generate long-term profits is not really a home.

    The HDB should relook its policies in this regard.

    A flat owner who buys private property should be subjected to an income assessment.

    If his income is above a certain cap set by the HDB, he should be made to sell his flat on the open market within a certain period of taking possession of the private property.

    When owners have to dispose of their HDB flats upon upgrading to private property, they will have more cash and Central Provident Fund savings to purchase larger condo units, which in turn encourages developers to build them.

    Another way would be to limit the timeframe that an HDB flat can be rented out, if the owner has a private property under his name and does not have a valid reason, such as being stationed overseas, for renting out the unit.

    Current rules forbid a private property owner from purchasing even a resale HDB flat. The same rule should apply to HDB flat owners looking to buy private property.

    This is a loophole many are exploiting, resulting in fewer resale HDB flats on the market. This deprives people who genuinely need public housing from owning such units, and encourages developers to build smaller condo units for HDB flat owners who want the best of both worlds.

    Chan Suan Yen (Ms)
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

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    wow...this lady really wants to crash the property market. Hope she knows what she's wishing for, Cheers!
    "How to make a fool useful for your properties? Let him continue to blow up Jurong prices and all other areas will keep up"

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    I think the implications will be:

    1. Taking a further huge chunk of demand out of current condo units. The fall will likely be very swift.

    2. Some degree of forced selling of HDB. Based on supply and demand conditions, the price will also drop.

    This is likely to be the crash / GSS that MTBs have been waiting for!
    The three laws of Kelonguni:

    Where there is kelong, there is guni.
    No kelong no guni.
    More kelong = more guni.

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    This writer is someone who is probably young, with or without a hbd but cannot afford a PC.
    When you have eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth

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    simple minded and selfish.

    what about those people i.e. retirees who depends on renting out their rooms for retirement income for daily usage.


    also what make them think that if the HDB seller have more cash the developer will build bigger units! and not raise the PSF for the PC.?

    simpleminded.
    “Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
    ― Martin Luther King, Jr.

    OUT WITH THE SHIT TRASH

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke65 View Post
    wow...this lady really wants to crash the property market. Hope she knows what she's wishing for, Cheers!
    I support her view. I have said long ago HDB is public housing and should never be allowed to be monetised.

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    Quote Originally Posted by minority View Post
    simple minded and selfish.

    what about those people i.e. retirees who depends on renting out their rooms for retirement income for daily usage.


    also what make them think that if the HDB seller have more cash the developer will build bigger units! and not raise the PSF for the PC.?

    simpleminded.
    These retirees dont have CPF? How come CPF not enough for retirement?
    They only got themselves to blame, no crutch mentality, ya?

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    Quote Originally Posted by august View Post
    I support her view. I have said long ago HDB is public housing and should never be allowed to be monetised.
    I don't understand your logic. How does the current policies allow monetising of the HDB flat? Are u suggesting that HDB flat owners not be allowed to invest in properties?

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    where is this published in? SPH is known to troll by publishing such letters from time to time.

    at the end of the day, it is just a very narrow view that doesnt gel with how the regulators, govt, stakeholders look at property, and will never get any currency.

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    The writer raised a very important point. The shrinking size of today's apartment is largely due to HDB upgraders keeping their flats instead of selling them. By not selling their HDB flats, most upgraders would not have the financial means to buy a bigger private apartment. Hence, they chose to buy small private apartments instead.

    These sizable group of HDB upgraders can have the option of living in a smaller private apartment and rent out their HDB flats or continue to live in their more spacious HDB flats and rent out their smaller private apartments. They indirectly influence the demand for small private apartments and so developers continue to build them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by august View Post
    I support her view. I have said long ago HDB is public housing and should never be allowed to be monetised.
    Agree that HDB should be kept affordable. But if price plunge becomes lesser than outstanding loan amount, banks can call the difference. This will be a good time to exploit the market, but many people will suffer. Wish all the overleveraged buyers well
    "How to make a fool useful for your properties? Let him continue to blow up Jurong prices and all other areas will keep up"

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    Quote Originally Posted by august View Post
    These retirees dont have CPF? How come CPF not enough for retirement?
    They only got themselves to blame, no crutch mentality, ya?
    Why the retirees cannot get more $ from rental to complement their CPF ? different folks different needs. some squander all their CPF liao who's fault? renting out at least give them another avenue to get income.

    Or I guess u rather wish all the retirees go wipe table?
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    The appreciation and "cash cow" concept of HDB was changed in the 90s. As the older generations do not have much cash or CPF and Singapore transitioning from 3rd to 1st world, the only thing these old and poor elderly can rely on is the HDB.

    So the Government allowed rental and also speed up the price appreciation process. So majority of Singaporeans (80%) can benefit from it.

    So now, some jealous people are thinking otherwise. Let the old people die. Let their parents rot. Why our parents can buy 30k and sell 700k and not us?

    Well, you have your wish soon No more 700k

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amber Woods View Post
    The writer raised a very important point. The shrinking size of today's apartment is largely due to HDB upgraders keeping their flats instead of selling them. By not selling their HDB flats, most upgraders would not have the financial means to buy a bigger private apartment. Hence, they chose to buy small private apartments instead.

    These sizable group of HDB upgraders can have the option of living in a smaller private apartment and rent out their HDB flats or continue to live in their more spacious HDB flats and rent out their smaller private apartments. They indirectly influence the demand for small private apartments and so developers continue to build them.
    well its their personal choice. maybe they don't want a bigger unit? they could have sold their HDB but choose not to. its their personal choice.

    Thinking that selling their hbd would equal to a bigger unit not logical. if want bigger unit must will just stay put or buy a old 5 bed room HDB.
    “Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
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    Remember the concept by oppositions? They tell you low HDB price and no foreigners. Of course

    Low HDB price - so retirees cannot retire
    Less foreigners - so these old people can come out to wipe tables because they cannot retire






    Quote Originally Posted by minority View Post
    Why the retirees cannot get more $ from rental to complement their CPF ? different folks different needs. some squander all their CPF liao who's fault? renting out at least give them another avenue to get income.

    Or I guess u rather wish all the retirees go wipe table?

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    Quote Originally Posted by triple70 View Post
    I don't understand your logic. How does the current policies allow monetising of the HDB flat? Are u suggesting that HDB flat owners not be allowed to invest in properties?
    The same logic as why when one buys a HDB one will need to dispose of one's private property.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke65 View Post
    Agree that HDB should be kept affordable. But if price plunge becomes lesser than outstanding loan amount, banks can call the difference. This will be a good time to exploit the market, but many people will suffer. Wish all the overleveraged buyers well
    Too bad. "Capitalism without failure is like religion without sin. It doesn't work."

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    Quote Originally Posted by minority View Post
    Why the retirees cannot get more $ from rental to complement their CPF ? different folks different needs. some squander all their CPF liao who's fault? renting out at least give them another avenue to get income.

    Or I guess u rather wish all the retirees go wipe table?
    "We should not breed a crutch mentality."
    I am sure u know this saying well, u disagree with our PAP leaders?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thomastansb View Post
    Remember the concept by oppositions? They tell you low HDB price and no foreigners. Of course

    Low HDB price - so retirees cannot retire
    Less foreigners - so these old people can come out to wipe tables because they cannot retire
    low hdb price = less cpf money tied up in hdb = more money in cpf = can retire.
    less foreigners = salary higher = more money in cpf = can retire.

    compare and contrast.
    in the 80s, hdb price low, less foreigners, you can see many retirees relaxing in void decks.
    in the 10's, hdb price high, more foreigners, you can see many retirees working in food courts.
    Last edited by hopeful; 07-05-14 at 13:48.

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    Many retirees? How you define? You went to count?

    High HDB Price = More money when you downgrade = More money to retire
    Less foreigners = Weaker economy = Lesser money = Cannot retire


    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful View Post
    low hdb price = less cpf money tied up in hdb = more money in cpf = can retire.
    less foreigners = salary higher = more money in cpf = can retire.


    as proof of concept.
    in the 80s, hdb price low, you can see many retirees relaxing in void decks.
    in the 10's, hdb price high, you can see many retirees working in food courts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thomastansb View Post
    Many retirees? How you define? You went to count?

    High HDB Price = More money when you downgrade = More money to retire
    Less foreigners = Weaker economy = Lesser money = Cannot retire
    whats your own observation in the 80s and now?

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    3rd to 1st world. I don't count retirees because that is grossly inaccurate and inconclusive.



    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful View Post
    whats your own observation in the 80s and now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thomastansb View Post
    3rd to 1st world. I don't count retirees because that is grossly inaccurate and inconclusive.
    wah biang, earlier post u mention about cannot retire,
    Quote Originally Posted by thomastansb View Post
    .....
    Low HDB price - so retirees cannot retire
    Less foreigners - so these old people can come out to wipe tables because they cannot retire
    now i talk about observing retirees, old folks, between the 2 eras. you say u dont count retirees.

    so whats ur observation in the 80's and 10's. no need for theories. just tell me what you observed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by minority View Post
    well its their personal choice. maybe they don't want a bigger unit? they could have sold their HDB but choose not to. its their personal choice.

    Thinking that selling their hbd would equal to a bigger unit not logical. if want bigger unit must will just stay put or buy a old 5 bed room HDB.
    The logic is if people have the incentive to sell their HDB flats, they would have bought a bigger private apartment as a form of upgrade or investment. Since rental yield for HDB flat is higher, there is no incentive to sell their HDB flats. By keeping their HDB flats, there is just so much money left that they could afford to buy private properties; hence small unit apartments is in demand, not by choice but by circumstances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sherlock View Post
    This writer is someone who is probably young, with or without a hbd but cannot afford a PC.
    She is definitely looking for a PC... that is why she never include why HDB units are also shrinking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by triple70 View Post
    I don't understand your logic. How does the current policies allow monetising of the HDB flat? Are u suggesting that HDB flat owners not be allowed to invest in properties?
    You missed the point. HDB owners can invest in private properties but not allowed to make these property their home and convert their public subsidized housing into their money-making investment instead.

    Same goes for HDB owning retirees who can afford to buy additional private properties, should only be allowed to rent out those investment instead of their flats.

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    My parents retired. My auntie retired. They sell off their HDB and downgrade.



    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful View Post
    wah biang, earlier post u mention about cannot retire,


    now i talk about observing retirees, old folks, between the 2 eras. you say u dont count retirees.

    so whats ur observation in the 80's and 10's. no need for theories. just tell me what you observed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SG Life View Post
    She is definitely looking for a PC... that is why she never include why HDB units are also shrinking.
    Exactly.

    Hdb flats also shrunk a lot! !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki View Post
    Exactly.

    Hdb flats also shrunk a lot! !
    Then how about the rents for hdb so affordable that made the hdb prices go up n shrunk the hdb units due to demand.

    Then we force people who can afford a pc to buy or rent pc instead of resale?

    Can also argue in the same vein.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amber Woods View Post
    The writer raised a very important point. The shrinking size of today's apartment is largely due to HDB upgraders keeping their flats instead of selling them.

    and the smart alec ask you NOT to sell your HDB is.........

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