How Condos have evolved over the past 5 years

[Yuki]

This is what I have observed:

1) smaller units
2) shorter ceiling height
3) laminates no timber
4) tiles no marble
5) very thin kitchen tops

What else have you observed?

[hyenergix]

This is what I have observed:

1) smaller units
2) shorter ceiling height
3) laminates no timber
4) tiles no marble
5) very thin kitchen tops

What else have you observed?

• Huge air-con ledges
• Dry wall instead of brick wall
• Less carpark lots
• High unit density
• No intercomm (direct to telephone)
• No free whitegoods
• Expensive maintenance fee
• and many more

[gn108]

Demand and Supply.

Collectively we did ourselves in (investors).

We "asked" for

- smaller built-in (easier maintenance) then pay higher PSF.
- longer financing. So 30 years + also available. So willing to pay higher.
- ETC ETC

In short, we asked for it, and developers/bankers gave it to us.

[wt_know]

not we ask for it ... govt ask for it
govt control the supply (land) and population (demand)
supply stagnant and demand spike exponentially
that's what we got today
lastly, developer maximize the profit
hence, what we have is smaller, thinner, lesser, etc

for years, many shouted don't want like HK ... 1000sqft is considered luxury apartment and we are heading to HK style ... just slowly

5 years ago ... 1000sqft is standard ... 10 years ago 1000sqft is basic

Demand and Supply.

Collectively we did ourselves in (investors).

We "asked" for

- smaller built-in (easier maintenance) then pay higher PSF.
- longer financing. So 30 years + also available. So willing to pay higher.
- ETC ETC

In short, we asked for it, and developers/bankers gave it to us.

[august]

poorer and poorer quality control.
workmanship at all time low.

[Amber Woods]

Not fair to blame the government.

Even when developer said it was inhuman to build shoe box units, people sill bought even more because they were affordable. The buyers never think of liveability or the high psf price that came with the purchases. These buyers simply buy believing or hoping that they could achieve higher yield with smaller units.

As for developers, since there is demand for small units and they can make more profit selling small units, why build large units with less profit.

As more people buy small units, land price increases and hence quality suffers to maintain profitability and affordability.

So, it is the people who continue to buy small units that is contributing to today's problems. Then again you may ask, if don't buy small unit buy what? The answer is we ask for it.

[azeoprop]

poorer and poorer quality control.
workmanship at all time low.

This is so true even for so called luxurious projects.

[Yuki]

This is so true even for so called luxurious projects.

Humm.. Think it's a combination of contributing factors..

In the end genuine home owners suffer.

[august]

This is so true even for so called luxurious projects.

and this is at brand new TOP stage.
wonder what will happen several years after that.

[Kelonguni]

Not fair to blame the government.

Even when developer said it was inhuman to build shoe box units, people sill bought even more because they were affordable. The buyers never think of liveability or the high psf price that came with the purchases. These buyers simply buy believing or hoping that they could achieve higher yield with smaller units.

As for developers, since there is demand for small units and they can make more profit selling small units, why build large units with less profit.

As more people buy small units, land price increases and hence quality suffers to maintain profitability and affordability.

So, it is the people who continue to buy small units that is contributing to today's problems. Then again you may ask, if don't buy small unit buy what? The answer is we ask for it.

Small units are excellent for most people such as singles and retirees (which are amongst the fastest growing groups), and especially modern / future living without huge TVs and TV consoles of the past, altars and cumbersome furnitures.

Small is great. Most important is functional design and durable workmanship, which are perhaps compromised with the rush to complete projects and maximise profits, as well as the lack of skilled workmen to deliver the necessary.

[teddybear]

Govt can legislate minimum built-in space required for each type of BR unit (eg 1BR min 500 sqft, 2BR min 800 sqft, 3BR min 1000 sqft), and each Masterbedroom min must have how much in sqft and each normal bedroom min must be how much in sqft etc!
Can't rely on developers right?

Not fair to blame the government.

Even when developer said it was inhuman to build shoe box units, people sill bought even more because they were affordable. The buyers never think of liveability or the high psf price that came with the purchases. These buyers simply buy believing or hoping that they could achieve higher yield with smaller units.

As for developers, since there is demand for small units and they can make more profit selling small units, why build large units with less profit.

As more people buy small units, land price increases and hence quality suffers to maintain profitability and affordability.

So, it is the people who continue to buy small units that is contributing to today's problems. Then again you may ask, if don't buy small unit buy what? The answer is we ask for it.

[minority]

Not fair to blame the government.

Even when developer said it was inhuman to build shoe box units, people sill bought even more because they were affordable. The buyers never think of liveability or the high psf price that came with the purchases. These buyers simply buy believing or hoping that they could achieve higher yield with smaller units.

As for developers, since there is demand for small units and they can make more profit selling small units, why build large units with less profit.

As more people buy small units, land price increases and hence quality suffers to maintain profitability and affordability.

So, it is the people who continue to buy small units that is contributing to today's problems. Then again you may ask, if don't buy small unit buy what? The answer is we ask for it.

supply demand. Cheap $ fuelling everyone land lording dreams. All the small units are bought with the intent to invest.

[Kelonguni]

Govt can legislate minimum built-in space required for each type of BR unit (eg 1BR min 500 sqft, 2BR min 800 sqft, 3BR min 1000 sqft), and each Masterbedroom min must have how much in sqft and each normal bedroom min must be how much in sqft etc!
Can't rely on developers right?

That is too artificial. The moment the Govt sets this, the next moment there will be people petitioning against this, as it supports the prices at certain points.

What if developers fall below that figure? Award fines? Who to check and monitor?

Sizes are based on free will and demand-driven. No need to regulate this at all - you can find some people living in 90 sqft space in crowded cities. Not an issue at all for them (who are likely to be larger size than most Asians).

The issue here is if quality and workmanship declines.

[minority]

Govt can legislate minimum built-in space required for each type of BR unit (eg 1BR min 500 sqft, 2BR min 800 sqft, 3BR min 1000 sqft), and each Masterbedroom min must have how much in sqft and each normal bedroom min must be how much in sqft etc!
Can't rely on developers right?

u never read meh? already cap the no. of under 500sqf units to be build. Everything must ah kong limit? If Singaporean so unhappy with small units they can exercise their consumer rights not to purchase. the developers will not build if there is no demand.

government restrict the size then some jokers like u will cry foul say they like small units coz they single easy to clean why cannot allow them have smaller units!

[Kelonguni]

supply demand. Cheap $ fuelling everyone land lording dreams. All the small units are bought with the intent to invest.

Not totally true. Some plan to retire in one, and many singles buy to live in them (avoid paying rent).

[hopeful]

Not fair to blame the government.

Even when developer said it was inhuman to build shoe box units, people sill bought even more because they were affordable. The buyers never think of liveability or the high psf price that came with the purchases. These buyers simply buy believing or hoping that they could achieve higher yield with smaller units.

As for developers, since there is demand for small units and they can make more profit selling small units, why build large units with less profit.

As more people buy small units, land price increases and hence quality suffers to maintain profitability and affordability.

So, it is the people who continue to buy small units that is contributing to today's problems. Then again you may ask, if don't buy small unit buy what? The answer is we ask for it.

so it is market demand? i believe there is market demand for drugs, why govt banned it har. govt reduced supply until it is only available in black market, which drive prices high.
if drugs not banned, why prices of drugs would fall and people would need not resort to crimes to feed their habit.
do singaporeans commit crimes to buy a pack of cigarettes?

[teddybear]

Govt also allow developers to put in un-usable space to sell like bay-windows and planter areas, big big air-con ledges, no wonder nowadays 1200 sqft actual usable space is <1000 sqft of old units......................
So, even 1000 sqft min size is already rather small!

u never read meh? already cap the no. of under 500sqf units to be build. Everything must ah kong limit? If Singaporean so unhappy with small units they can exercise their consumer rights not to purchase. the developers will not build if there is no demand.

government restrict the size then some jokers like u will cry foul say they like small units coz they single easy to clean why cannot allow them have smaller units!

[Yuki]

To conclude property landscape in terms of quality sizes value of money is worsening in just a matter of half a decade.

But yet we are supposedly to be better off when our country progresses.

[teddybear]

May be some people are very very much better off, so you really have to break down the categories like:
Very rich people
Middle-class people
low-income people
politicians
retirees
...(etc)...

E.g., low-skilled workers like cleaners and security guards are so much worst off that the govt have to lend a helping hand with the min wages (ops, it is "progressive wages" (to be politically correct)..............)

To conclude property landscape in terms of quality sizes value of money is worsening in just a matter of half a decade.

But yet we are supposedly to be better off when our country progresses.

[Amber Woods]

so it is market demand? i believe there is market demand for drugs, why govt banned it har. govt reduced supply until it is only available in black market, which drive prices high.
if drugs not banned, why prices of drugs would fall and people would need not resort to crimes to feed their habit.
do singaporeans commit crimes to buy a pack of cigarettes?

In housing, you cannot confidently say it is market demand because housing is scare resource and hence can be easily exploited by developers. As such, government's intervention is necessary from time to time when the bigger forces are exploiting or benefiting from the situation at the expense of consumers. This is more of the case that is happening in Singapore's housing market right now.

[Kelonguni]

To conclude property landscape in terms of quality sizes value of money is worsening in just a matter of half a decade.

But yet we are supposedly to be better off when our country progresses.

If size is your only concern, my suggestion is to go for HDBs. Great location, low psf, minimum quality guarantee, low maintenance fees.

[Komo]

In housing, you cannot confidently say it is market demand because housing is scare resource and hence can be easily exploited by developers. As such, government's intervention is necessary from time to time when the bigger forces are exploiting or benefiting from the situation at the expense of consumers. This is more of the case that is happening in Singapore's housing market right now.

well said ... but I can't help to feel that everyone is exploiting and maximizing selfish gain. there is only one loser, the consumer

[minority]

Not totally true. Some plan to retire in one, and many singles buy to live in them (avoid paying rent).

yes thats true but a large % are with investment in mind. Some singles I know buy with investment in mind abut later see the unit the think too much hassle to manage rental they decide to stay a few years use it 1st then later rent out.

[minority]

Govt also allow developers to put in un-usable space to sell like bay-windows and planter areas, big big air-con ledges, no wonder nowadays 1200 sqft actual usable space is <1000 sqft of old units......................
So, even 1000 sqft min size is already rather small!

Well then buyers can reject buying units like this. No one force them to buy. if buyers reject buying the developers will have to change the design. willing buyer willing seller. blame who?

u like that say. u must will say ah kong must dictate all units be min 3000sqf a unit. So that more people can stay in 1 unit mulit tenant it.

only pole people like u everyday KPKB hoping people buy have to force sell then u can go pick durian.

[boonlaysg]

some more upside down development for new SG condos:

1. balcony bigger than living room. thanks to 10% bonus balcony ruling.
2. smaller units command better facing than bigger units in the same block. notice a few projects whereby smaller units have nice pool view compared to 3 bedders.
3. kitchens are not for cooking, for show nia.
4. kitchens and dining are the first things to be seen when one enters the house. a very big no no in terms of fengshui. also kitchen cabinets that are supposed to be used for plates, utensils etc are being used for washing machine. very bad FS indeed. water and fire lagi chiong.
5. space so small, samma open concept kitchen.
6. main doors are very close to neighbour's.
7. rubbish chute all outside the unit
8. bathrooms are very small. everything feel very claustrophobic even for a
'3 bedder'.

i think developer should stop blaming the cooling measures for the lackluster sales. Gone are the days whereby buyers will buy almost anything developers are selling. Developers should refocus instead on the fundamentals -giving buyers value for money units in terms of space, functionality and price, sales should go up again.

Stop selling TOY houses and start selling REAL houses.

[smellyfish]

the three Bs - bomb shelter, balcony and baywindows.

[Amber Woods]

some more upside down development for new SG condos:

1. balcony bigger than living room. thanks to 10% bonus balcony ruling.
2. smaller units command better facing than bigger units in the same block. notice a few projects whereby smaller units have nice pool view compared to 3 bedders.
3. kitchens are not for cooking, for show nia.
4. kitchens and dining are the first things to be seen when one enters the house. a very big no no in terms of fengshui. also kitchen cabinets that are supposed to be used for plates, utensils etc are being used for washing machine. very bad FS indeed. water and fire lagi chiong.
5. space so small, samma open concept kitchen.
6. main doors are very close to neighbour's.
7. rubbish chute all outside the unit
8. bathrooms are very small. everything feel very claustrophobic even for a
'3 bedder'.

i think developer should stop blaming the cooling measures for the lackluster sales. Gone are the days whereby buyers will buy almost anything developers are selling. Developers should refocus instead on the fundamentals -giving buyers value for money units in terms of space, functionality and price, sales should go up again.

Stop selling TOY houses and start selling REAL houses.

Developers will only start building bigger unit or less compact unit when prices drop low enough such that for the same price, one can now buy some decent homes instead of compact units.

Whether the day will come very much depends on we the consumers. Hopefully, potential buyers can take this opportunity (with TDSR still in force) to come to sense with what is happening in the market and stop being exploited by developers.

[teddybear]

The problem is not absolute size!
The problem is with super big balconies and air-con ledges and bay-windows and planter areas!

If developers get banned from building super useless to near useless / unimportant areas (or can't sell as SALEABLE SPACE to buyers), even a 1000 sqft 3Bedder condos (like the old ones) is still liveable!

Developers will only start building bigger unit or less compact unit when prices drop low enough such that for the same price, one can now buy some decent homes instead of compact units.

Whether the day will come very much depends on we the consumers. Hopefully, potential buyers can take this opportunity (with TDSR still in force) to come to sense with what is happening in the market and stop being exploited by developers.

[minority]

The problem is not absolute size!
The problem is with super big balconies and air-con ledges and bay-windows and planter areas!

If developers get banned from building super useless to near useless / unimportant areas (or can't sell as SALEABLE SPACE to buyers), even a 1000 sqft 3Bedder condos (like the old ones) is still liveable!

why stop at absolute size? why don't ask for absolute price also? Since you are asking.

[Kelonguni]

The problem is not absolute size!
The problem is with super big balconies and air-con ledges and bay-windows and planter areas!

If developers get banned from building super useless to near useless / unimportant areas (or can't sell as SALEABLE SPACE to buyers), even a 1000 sqft 3Bedder condos (like the old ones) is still liveable!

Developers take on their risks which are of quite a different nature.

We have the following options:

1. Look away from properties. There are at least a dozen other investment types available that is highly liquid and stable.

2. Opt for overseas properties where land / labour and materials are much more affordable to build huge and cheap properties.

3. Opt for already built or older properties that satisfies your requirements. You can inspect and ensure that the A/C ledge and bay windows do not exceed your tolerance level. If the price is higher, rightfully so, since much more psf is usable. Boycott the local developments that do not meet your criteria.

It is a willing-buyer-willing-seller market. Not everything should be regulated.