Mass market and mid-tier private apartments expected to do well this year

[Unregistered]

I trust Warren Buffett more. If you have taken Jim's cue in the last few months you would bought into commodities thinking they are only one third of the way into a ten year bull run. I took it with a heap of salt. Look what happen to oil and ag commodities in the last 2 weeks. I also disagree with his view on GIC and Temasek making direct investments into UBS, Merill and Citi. Jim is too much of a short term trader for me. Think Tony Tan and Tharman, MM are way ahead of the curve. Tell will tell.

Agreed. Jim Rogers is a bit of a speculator. He says he will short the US financial stocks and see what happened, the financial stocks bounced back a last couple of days (I agree it is going to be volitate for a while). I remembered him saying that Citibank is worthed only US$8, now it is at US$23 (lowest at US$19). Look at commodities, wasn't him very bullish a few weeks ago and try to promote his commodities funds. Gold, oil and the rest of the commodities dropped close to 10% from its peak. So, nobody really can read 100% of the market, only time will tell.

[Unregistered]

I saw lots of buyers showing up at my condo last week and this week. Think they are fed up of waiting for prices to fall. It is not happening. Think they are smart to strike a deal now as sellers more reasonable now with cloud of uncertainties in the US. If US manage to soft land their economy and avert a total collapse in their banking system and wider economy, the market will start to cheong again.

CHEONG UR HEAD........
DUN MISLEAD PPL BY UR TREAD
U MUST BE AN AGENT TO SAY THESE...........

[Unregistered]

I trust Warren Buffett more. If you have taken Jim's cue in the last few months you would bought into commodities thinking they are only one third of the way into a ten year bull run. I took it with a heap of salt. Look what happen to oil and ag commodities in the last 2 weeks. I also disagree with his view on GIC and Temasek making direct investments into UBS, Merill and Citi. Jim is too much of a short term trader for me. Think Tony Tan and Tharman, MM are way ahead of the curve. Tell will tell.

MM Lee's message last month:

MINISTER Mentor Lee Kuan Yew last night urged Singaporeans not to over-stretch themselves financially in a period of boom, so that in the event of bad times, they would be better able to ride out the cycle.

Describing the effect of the property cycle, he warned that property prices go in cycles and will not keep going up all the time.

"They go up, then they go down," he said. "So when they go up, don't believe that it's going to go up further and further, and you start buying bigger and bigger, and mortgage for bigger and bigger amounts. Because the day it starts to fall, the cycle goes around, you will find yourself with a negative value asset."

Me no expert here, but think MM Lee will not happy happy speak out of nothing.

[Unregistered]

I think the mad bulls (suffering from Mad Bull Disease) have a problem. They claim to have a good overview of things but are in fact one track.

In buying a property, it is always a question of affordability, not do as the Joneses do. Even if there are 80,000 immigrants every year, they have to be earning salaries that can afford, current salary for current prices, and not some projected future salary because IR etc.

And if prudence dictates, then it's about 5x annual salary for properties. Out of the net influx of foreign talent, I expect only a few hundred will earn more than $500k per year, and a smaller fraction who would buy properties at $2.5m or higher. And if it's mid-tier that we are discussing, then we count those who earn above $200k per year.

As for foreign investors, they are here to make money too. They may prop up the prices for a while, but they can all go at the drop of a hat.

[Unregistered]

MM Lee's message last month:

MINISTER Mentor Lee Kuan Yew last night urged Singaporeans not to over-stretch themselves financially in a period of boom, so that in the event of bad times, they would be better able to ride out the cycle.

Describing the effect of the property cycle, he warned that property prices go in cycles and will not keep going up all the time.

"They go up, then they go down," he said. "So when they go up, don't believe that it's going to go up further and further, and you start buying bigger and bigger, and mortgage for bigger and bigger amounts. Because the day it starts to fall, the cycle goes around, you will find yourself with a negative value asset."

Me no expert here, but think MM Lee will not happy happy speak out of nothing.

The message is do not over-stretch, buy within your mean.
Still a buy, but do your sum right.
MM famous quote is next 10-15 years are golden age of spore, we are going to transform & we are going to succeed.
Even US catch cold this time, asia will not catch flu with China & India will lead asia to grow during this period.
Spore is at the center of world fastest growing region.

[Unregistered]

Agreed. Jim Rogers is a bit of a speculator. He says he will short the US financial stocks and see what happened, the financial stocks bounced back a last couple of days (I agree it is going to be volitate for a while). I remembered him saying that Citibank is worthed only US$8, now it is at US$23 (lowest at US$19). Look at commodities, wasn't him very bullish a few weeks ago and try to promote his commodities funds. Gold, oil and the rest of the commodities dropped close to 10% from its peak. So, nobody really can read 100% of the market, only time will tell.

Jim Rogers just call to buy DOW & equity, he said with the support of global central bank, equity is unlikely to fall.
Anyway, we have just seen a big reversal in commodity price, gold, silver, oil, sugar, coffee....all plunge last week from 10-20%, more to come.
In next 2 weeks, we will see US$ & DOW reverse the trend, moving up strongly. All the fund & liquidity, waiting at sideline, will start to buy strongly in global equity market. STI will rebound strongly, what will happen to property market then? with subprime & financial issues suddenly disappear, those who act fast will get some good buy. Those who wait, think, kiasi & kiasu will iss the boat again. You will hear them said, 'aiya actually I wanted to buy this & that, but....'
So hold on to your property, rent them out, they worth much more.

[Unregistered]

nothing will drop nowdays..

petrol increase

hawker food also increase!!!

Even maggie noodle also increase!!!

Please tell me what is cheap nowdays???

SO property prices will drop?

U think for yourself..........

[Unregistered]

nothing will drop nowdays..

petrol increase

hawker food also increase!!!

Even maggie noodle also increase!!!

Please tell me what is cheap nowdays???

SO property prices will drop?

U think for yourself..........

I know what dropped.
The price per MB of computer data storage dropped. Ha ha ha!

[Unregistered]

I think the mad bulls (suffering from Mad Bull Disease) have a problem. They claim to have a good overview of things but are in fact one track.

In buying a property, it is always a question of affordability, not do as the Joneses do. Even if there are 80,000 immigrants every year, they have to be earning salaries that can afford, current salary for current prices, and not some projected future salary because IR etc.

And if prudence dictates, then it's about 5x annual salary for properties. Out of the net influx of foreign talent, I expect only a few hundred will earn more than $500k per year, and a smaller fraction who would buy properties at $2.5m or higher. And if it's mid-tier that we are discussing, then we count those who earn above $200k per year.

As for foreign investors, they are here to make money too. They may prop up the prices for a while, but they can all go at the drop of a hat.

I think it's the sour grapes (suffering from Sour Grape Disease) who have a problem. They claim to have a good overview of things but are in fact one track.

Read this morning (24 Mar 2008) Business Times news:

Business Times - 24 Mar 2008


Singapore draws $3b of manufacturing investments

Latest batch of projects promise sunrise era, queen bee buzz

By RONNIE LIM

(SINGAPORE) Despite current global economic jitters, investment inflows here remain strong.

In the first few months of 2008, Singapore has already attracted more than S$3 billion of manufacturing investments.

More importantly, many of the investments represent a new wave of activities which will help the manufacturing sector here weather industry downcycles, keep ahead of the competition and stay relevant amidst rapid global technological advances.

This is one top of the "record S$16.1 billion (US$11.2 billion) in manufacturing commitments from investors in 2007, almost double that of the previous year, the government said on Monday." (ChannelNewsAsia 21 January 2008).

The S$3 billion investments so far this year was committed between 1 Jan 2008 and 5 Mar 2008 (just 2.17 months) if we extrapolate that to a full year, that's going to be another record $16.5 billion.

Last time Singapore used to target about $8 billion to $9 billion per year of investments. Now it is getting twice that amount.

Also note that these investments are new types of investments like "Aerospace Composites", "Solar Research" that requires expertise not necessarily available in Singapore.

This means more foreign talents to come here to rent properties.

Some may settle down, like this German guy below who appeared in Sunday Times (23 Mar 2008).



One thing about Singapore I wish I'd known before I came here...

'I wish someone had told me that Singapore is like home, a truly cosmopolitan city. I would have come here sooner.'

[Unregistered]

I think the mad bulls (suffering from Mad Bull Disease) have a problem. They claim to have a good overview of things but are in fact one track.

In buying a property, it is always a question of affordability, not do as the Joneses do. Even if there are 80,000 immigrants every year, they have to be earning salaries that can afford, current salary for current prices, and not some projected future salary because IR etc.

And if prudence dictates, then it's about 5x annual salary for properties. Out of the net influx of foreign talent, I expect only a few hundred will earn more than $500k per year, and a smaller fraction who would buy properties at $2.5m or higher. And if it's mid-tier that we are discussing, then we count those who earn above $200k per year.

As for foreign investors, they are here to make money too. They may prop up the prices for a while, but they can all go at the drop of a hat.

I think it's the sour grapes (suffering from Sour Grape Disease) who have a problem. They claim to have a good overview of things but are in fact one track.

Read this morning (24 Mar 2008) Business Times news:

Business Times - 24 Mar 2008


Singapore draws $3b of manufacturing investments

Latest batch of projects promise sunrise era, queen bee buzz

By RONNIE LIM

(SINGAPORE) Despite current global economic jitters, investment inflows here remain strong.

In the first few months of 2008, Singapore has already attracted more than S$3 billion of manufacturing investments.

More importantly, many of the investments represent a new wave of activities which will help the manufacturing sector here weather industry downcycles, keep ahead of the competition and stay relevant amidst rapid global technological advances.

This is one top of the "record S$16.1 billion (US$11.2 billion) in manufacturing commitments from investors in 2007, almost double that of the previous year, the government said on Monday." (ChannelNewsAsia 21 January 2008).

The S$3 billion investments so far this year was committed between 1 Jan 2008 and 5 Mar 2008 (just 2.17 months) if we extrapolate that to a full year, that's going to be another record $16.5 billion.

Last time Singapore used to target about $8 billion to $9 billion per year of investments. Now it is getting twice that amount.

Also note that these investments are new types of investments like "Aerospace Composites", "Solar Research" that requires expertise not necessarily available in Singapore.

This means more foreign talents to come here to rent properties.

Some may settle down, like this German guy below who appeared in Sunday Times (23 Mar 2008).



One thing about Singapore I wish I'd known before I came here...

'I wish someone had told me that Singapore is like home, a truly cosmopolitan city. I would have come here sooner.'

Wah lau! This one also dropped leh.
The roof of his Eos dropped down lah.
Ha ha ha!

[Unregistered]

Jim Rogers just call to buy DOW & equity, he said with the support of global central bank, equity is unlikely to fall.
Anyway, we have just seen a big reversal in commodity price, gold, silver, oil, sugar, coffee....all plunge last week from 10-20%, more to come.
In next 2 weeks, we will see US$ & DOW reverse the trend, moving up strongly. All the fund & liquidity, waiting at sideline, will start to buy strongly in global equity market. STI will rebound strongly, what will happen to property market then? with subprime & financial issues suddenly disappear, those who act fast will get some good buy. Those who wait, think, kiasi & kiasu will iss the boat again. You will hear them said, 'aiya actually I wanted to buy this & that, but....'
So hold on to your property, rent them out, they worth much more.

I totally agreed. Why do I need to sell my properties to those sour grapes (hoping to buy cheap, wait long long) when the market is soft? I can rent it out for NET 3%+ and refinance my properties for less than 2% interest (SIBOR is dropping to mid 1% and is expected to drop further (see today's ST article), my rental income is more than enough to cover my monthly repayment to bank. My tenants even pay for my principle sum to the bank. I am secured for the next 2 years. 2 years' later, if mkt rebounce nicely, I will consider selling. If not, I can rent it out again.

For those who wish for a major collapse, I think you have a better chance if our country will sink in this financial mess or some disaster (like SARS) strike us. Then again, you could have lost your job and even we "lei long" and sell to you, you could not afford it then.

[Unregistered]

Jim Rogers just call to buy DOW & equity, he said with the support of global central bank, equity is unlikely to fall.
Anyway, we have just seen a big reversal in commodity price, gold, silver, oil, sugar, coffee....all plunge last week from 10-20%, more to come.
In next 2 weeks, we will see US$ & DOW reverse the trend, moving up strongly. All the fund & liquidity, waiting at sideline, will start to buy strongly in global equity market. STI will rebound strongly, what will happen to property market then? with subprime & financial issues suddenly disappear, those who act fast will get some good buy. Those who wait, think, kiasi & kiasu will iss the boat again. You will hear them said, 'aiya actually I wanted to buy this & that, but....'
So hold on to your property, rent them out, they worth much more.

A classic of Chinese saying " See where the direction of the wind blows and turn your sail accordingly". No wonder he is a guru, at least he is smart to see the direction of the wind. No like the sour grapes, still chewing the sour grapes and refuse to let go.

Note: What he thinks/says a few weeks ago, no longer apply. Now, he says otherwise. SMART!

[Unregistered]

Jim Rogers just call to buy DOW & equity, he said with the support of global central bank, equity is unlikely to fall.
Anyway, we have just seen a big reversal in commodity price, gold, silver, oil, sugar, coffee....all plunge last week from 10-20%, more to come.
In next 2 weeks, we will see US$ & DOW reverse the trend, moving up strongly. All the fund & liquidity, waiting at sideline, will start to buy strongly in global equity market. STI will rebound strongly, what will happen to property market then? with subprime & financial issues suddenly disappear, those who act fast will get some good buy. Those who wait, think, kiasi & kiasu will iss the boat again. You will hear them said, 'aiya actually I wanted to buy this & that, but....'
So hold on to your property, rent them out, they worth much more.

A classic of Chinese saying " See where the direction of the wind blows and turn your sail accordingly". No wonder he is a guru, at least he is smart to see the direction of the wind. No like the sour grapes, still chewing the sour grapes and refuse to let go.

Note: What he thinks/says a few weeks ago, no longer apply. Now, he says otherwise. SMART!

Wah lau!
I wish I can change as fast as him.

[Unregistered]

Wah lau!
I wish I can change as fast as him.

That's why he is so rich. Cantonese sayings " Those who walk the fastest, the best luck waiting for you".

In other words, the best luck go to the fastest person, the slow ones will not get any.

[Unregistered]

A classic of Chinese saying " See where the direction of the wind blows and turn your sail accordingly". No wonder he is a guru, at least he is smart to see the direction of the wind. No like the sour grapes, still chewing the sour grapes and refuse to let go.

Note: What he thinks/says a few weeks ago, no longer apply. Now, he says otherwise. SMART!

He bought big time into Taiwan last week betting on Mr. Ma winning the election. Sour grapes still grappling with what to dot next. In the meanwhile, they will write to the press, complain to their MP, whine and whine.

[Unregistered]

Good to see such an informative exchange, I am quite confident the mass market and mid tier private market will at worst hold its prices for the next two quarters and start appreciating again closer year end as interest rates plunge and people realise its better to buy and enjoy the good yield,however it might happen sooner than that and for those who missed it the first time, will do so again if they put it off too late, its all about sustainability

[Unregistered]

Let me share my story to all the HDB owners.

I had stayed in 5-room HDB at Woodlands for the past 12 yrs. It was rented out last month for $2.1k per month after upgrading to a 3 bedder condo at Woodlands for 518k. My monthly instalment for this new home with bank is $1850, and was revised down to $1720 recently.
Now, My family got:
1. better life style.
2. free parking & facility.
3. surplus $380 ($2100-1720) monthly (i.e. 4.5k yearly)

Of course, i forked out deposit & stamp duty of 114k. (use to be fix-deposited for 2.8%, i.e 3k interest yearly, which well compensated by the month surplus from item #3).

As long as the mass market/mortgage interest/rental hold (which is highly possible), i will continue to enjoy positive return.

OK, the morale of the story:
Upgrade to mass market condo and rent out your HDB.

My advice:
Do your calculation. If return is positive, buy now, don't wait.....

[Unregistered]

Let me share my story to all the HDB owners.

I had stayed in 5-room HDB at Woodlands for the past 12 yrs. It was rented out last month for $2.1k per month after upgrading to a 3 bedder condo at Woodlands for 518k. My monthly instalment for this new home with bank is $1850, and was revised down to $1720 recently.
Now, My family got:
1. better life style.
2. free parking & facility.
3. surplus $380 ($2100-1720) monthly (i.e. 4.5k yearly)

Of course, i forked out deposit & stamp duty of 114k. (use to be fix-deposited for 2.8%, i.e 3k interest yearly, which well compensated by the month surplus from item #3).

As long as the mass market/mortgage interest/rental hold (which is highly possible), i will continue to enjoy positive return.

OK, the morale of the story:
Upgrade to mass market condo and rent out your HDB.

My advice:
Do your calculation. If return is positive, buy now, don't wait.....

well done! good for you & your family.
Enjoy a comfort & better lifestyle.

[Unregistered]

well done! good for you & your family.
Enjoy a comfort & better lifestyle.

Thanks.
You may get higher return if age younger.
Me already old, that's why monthly instalment is high.
Cheer,
Woodlander.

[Unregistered]

Let me share my story to all the HDB owners.

I had stayed in 5-room HDB at Woodlands for the past 12 yrs. It was rented out last month for $2.1k per month after upgrading to a 3 bedder condo at Woodlands for 518k. My monthly instalment for this new home with bank is $1850, and was revised down to $1720 recently.
Now, My family got:
1. better life style.
2. free parking & facility.
3. surplus $380 ($2100-1720) monthly (i.e. 4.5k yearly)

Of course, i forked out deposit & stamp duty of 114k. (use to be fix-deposited for 2.8%, i.e 3k interest yearly, which well compensated by the month surplus from item #3).

As long as the mass market/mortgage interest/rental hold (which is highly possible), i will continue to enjoy positive return.

OK, the morale of the story:
Upgrade to mass market condo and rent out your HDB.

My advice:
Do your calculation. If return is positive, buy now, don't wait.....

I intend to do the opposite from what you've done. When my condo gets TOP this coming November, I'm going to rent it out while I continue to stay in my HDB flat.

My condo was bought from developer 3 years ago also for around $500k. Now market value is around $900 k. TOP is November 2008.

Old condos around that area of similar size are being rented out for around $3 k. Hence my one completely new should be able to command more.

My monthly installment is around $1800. So I am going to have net surplus of $1200 per month. That's a net surplus of $14,400 per year.

Furthermore, out of the $1800 per month interest repayment, around $900 is for principal repayment and the other $900 for interest. Hence the interest alone is actually $900.

If you match rental to interest, that's $3000 vs $900 per month, or net surplus of $2100 per month. That's actually $25,200 per year.

I think you forgot to take that into consideration. Your net surplus should be higher than what you've calculated.

[Unregistered]

I intend to do the opposite from what you've done. When my condo gets TOP this coming November, I'm going to rent it out while I continue to stay in my HDB flat.

My condo was bought from developer 3 years ago also for around $500k. Now market value is around $900 k. TOP is November 2008.

Old condos around that area of similar size are being rented out for around $3 k. Hence my one completely new should be able to command more.

My monthly installment is around $1800. So I am going to have net surplus of $1200 per month. That's a net surplus of $14,400 per year.

Furthermore, out of the $1800 per month interest repayment, around $900 is for principal repayment and the other $900 for interest. Hence the interest alone is actually $900.

If you match rental to interest, that's $3000 vs $900 per month, or net surplus of $2100 per month. That's actually $25,200 per year.

I think you forgot to take that into consideration. Your net surplus should be higher than what you've calculated.

... but you have no condo lifestyle ...

[Unregistered]

3,000 apply for Boon Keng's condo-like flats, but only 460 sold

By Fiona Chan, Property Reporter


THOUSANDS of applications poured in for a condo-like Housing Board project in January - but as of last week, less than two-thirds of the flats had been taken up.

About 250 of the 714 units in City View @ Boon Keng remain unsold, said HSR Property Group, which is marketing the project.

These flats will be offered to the public, probably via a walk-in selection.

The leftover homes came as a surprise to market watchers, given that 3,500 applicants had vied for them.

This works out to five would-be buyers for each flat at City View, the second public housing project to be built by a private developer.

It boasts condo-like features such as timber floors, built-in wardrobes and air-conditioning.

All the applicants were given a chance to book the flats they wanted, said HSR project director Kellie Liew.

The selection process stretched over 20 days and ended last Thursday, with more than 3,000 potential deals falling through.

Developer Hoi Hup Sunway sold about 460 units, including six of the top-priced five-room units at $727,000 each, said Ms Liew.

But she added that some buyers backed out of their purchases due to the weakening property market, while others did not meet the required criteria to buy the flats.

[Unregistered]

3,000 apply for Boon Keng's condo-like flats, but only 460 sold

By Fiona Chan, Property Reporter


THOUSANDS of applications poured in for a condo-like Housing Board project in January - but as of last week, less than two-thirds of the flats had been taken up.

About 250 of the 714 units in City View @ Boon Keng remain unsold, said HSR Property Group, which is marketing the project.

These flats will be offered to the public, probably via a walk-in selection.

The leftover homes came as a surprise to market watchers, given that 3,500 applicants had vied for them.

This works out to five would-be buyers for each flat at City View, the second public housing project to be built by a private developer.

It boasts condo-like features such as timber floors, built-in wardrobes and air-conditioning.

All the applicants were given a chance to book the flats they wanted, said HSR project director Kellie Liew.

The selection process stretched over 20 days and ended last Thursday, with more than 3,000 potential deals falling through.

Developer Hoi Hup Sunway sold about 460 units, including six of the top-priced five-room units at $727,000 each, said Ms Liew.

But she added that some buyers backed out of their purchases due to the weakening property market, while others did not meet the required criteria to buy the flats.

some did not meet the required criteria, how many?
Wait for STI to hit 3300 in 1-2 months time, people will start to camp outside HDB to grab those leftover units, real opportunists.

[Unregistered]

some did not meet the required criteria, how many?
Wait for STI to hit 3300 in 1-2 months time, people will start to camp outside HDB to grab those leftover units, real opportunists.

Oh my God no takers for cheap condos too....whats going on? As predicted its dead. Speculators gasping for breath but no oxygen available. Sure dead ones.

[Unregistered]

Oh my God no takers for cheap condos too....whats going on? As predicted its dead. Speculators gasping for breath but no oxygen available. Sure dead ones.

Prices still going up. OK lah.

[Unregistered]

Prices still going up. OK lah.

Yes price going up negative. That good too.

[Unregistered]

some did not meet the required criteria, how many?
Wait for STI to hit 3300 in 1-2 months time, people will start to camp outside HDB to grab those leftover units, real opportunists.

Are you talking from experience?

[Unregistered]

Are you talking from experience?

For me yes. Failed to buy HDB flats and ECs a few times years ago. Finally quitted job for 2 months to buy an EC. After moving in, both changed jobs and combined income was around $25-30k.

So yes. Looking back. Very frustrating during those applications.

[Unregistered]

For me yes. Failed to buy HDB flats and ECs a few times years ago. Finally quitted job for 2 months to buy an EC. After moving in, both changed jobs and combined income was around $25-30k.

So yes. Looking back. Very frustrating during those applications.

Did you quit your job again? Seems you are online on this forum 24 hrs.

[Unregistered]

Did you quit your job again? Seems you are online on this forum 24 hrs.

24 hours? You must have skipped your mathematics class right?
I only logged in at 11pm. How to clocked 24 hours?