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Thread: Silversea (D15, 99 years Leasehold, Far East Organization)

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Douk
    Hmm. Can the developer survives with so many units on hand
    I wont feel sorry for some developers who go bust if they insists on pricing themselves out of the market due to greed. And I'm sure a lot of people will feel likewise. That's why there will be some projects which I will never buy from Have seen many friends and relatives suffer from lousy quality of the projects as well as significantly lower prices than launched units later for unsold units by using inferior materials in the unsold units. And some of these units are not `lousy' or worse off than the initial launched units becasue usually its the lousy facing and low floors that were launched initially.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Farnie
    I wont feel sorry for some developers who go bust if they insists on pricing themselves out of the market due to greed. And I'm sure a lot of people will feel likewise. That's why there will be some projects which I will never buy from Have seen many friends and relatives suffer from lousy quality of the projects as well as significantly lower prices than launched units later for unsold units by using inferior materials in the unsold units. And some of these units are not `lousy' or worse off than the initial launched units becasue usually its the lousy facing and low floors that were launched initially.
    True.

    Vice versa.
    We should also not expect developers to sell below their cost and go bust just so that some lazy individuals can have a free ride.
    Nor should they sell a project in a "more-costly" district at a lower price than one in a "less-costly" district.

    Quote Originally Posted by URA
    Private Residential Units Sold in the Month of October 2008

    Project Name . Locality . Units Sold In Month . Highest $psf . Median $psf . Lowest $psf
    Hillvista ........... OCR ........ 2 ............................... 1,050 ............. 1,047 ............ 1,043

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reporter
    True.

    Vice versa.
    We should also not expect developers to sell below their cost and go bust just so that some lazy individuals can have a free ride.
    Nor should they sell a project in a "more-costly" district at a lower price than one in a "less-costly" district.
    I agree with your first point provided these developers didnt chase the price due to greed, ie over-bidding for a piece of land or over-paying for an enbloc site.

    As for the 2nd point, if 1 or 2 individuals bought at a high price for a less costly district, neither will I feel sorry for these individuals for not doing their home work to source for cheaper units (usually resale and recently completed TOP projects, which to me is as good as buying brand new). So these individual transactions do not represent the true market value and thus I will expect developer to reduce price accordingly.

    Now, I am assuming those transactions are `real' buyers. However, letz not kid ourselves. There are many developers who will `buy' a few of these units to `show' that there is indeed a demand. Well, for listed companies, at least we can see it being reported, sometimes as related-party transactions. However for the non-listed co/ developer, it is not so transparent. Thus, I usually discount when agents tell me there are transactions supporting a price.

    If you are in the market for awhile, you will know which developers even other developers and suppliers (main-Con/ Sub-con/ Mkt Agency) dislike working with.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farnie
    I agree with your first point provided these developers didnt chase the price due to greed, ie over-bidding for a piece of land or over-paying for an enbloc site.

    As for the 2nd point, if 1 or 2 individuals bought at a high price for a less costly district, neither will I feel sorry for these individuals for not doing their home work to source for cheaper units (usually resale and recently completed TOP projects, which to me is as good as buying brand new). So these individual transactions do not represent the true market value and thus I will expect developer to reduce price accordingly.

    Now, I am assuming those transactions are `real' buyers. However, letz not kid ourselves. There are many developers who will `buy' a few of these units to `show' that there is indeed a demand. Well, for listed companies, at least we can see it being reported, sometimes as related-party transactions. However for the non-listed co/ developer, it is not so transparent. Thus, I usually discount when agents tell me there are transactions supporting a price.

    If you are in the market for awhile, you will know which developers even other developers and suppliers (main-Con/ Sub-con/ Mkt Agency) dislike working with.
    OK. As per what you said, the prices have been manipulated.

    Therefore, we should ignore the ultra-high and the ultra-low of the prices. These have been manipulated.

    Let's all ignore these ultra-high and ultra-low.

    Does that mean you will ignore the ultra-low in the market, e.g. the ultra-low in PI, The Sail, etc.?

    Or you would prefer to ignore the ultra-high but use the ultra-low as the benchmark for the market?


    Seriously, I would prefer to use the ultra-low in the market as a benchmark. If I could buy myself a nice property by just asking the developer to lower the price and not having to work hard, why not?

    Beside property, I am also hoping the same thing can happen to the car market and maybe the tourism market too.

    Oh! I am being nice! I never ask for them to be given free!

    Quote Originally Posted by mr funny
    http://www.straitstimes.com/Money/St...ry_303557.html

    November 18, 2008 Tuesday

    ....................

    There were a few quirks in the figures. For instance, a mass market condo, Lakeshore in Jurong West, sold for a relatively high $1,038 psf, said Savills Singapore's director of marketing and business development, Mr Ku Swee Yong.

    Two posh 99-year leasehold bungalows at Sandy Island at Sentosa Cove were sold for a high $2,033 psf and a possible record price of $2,169 psf, or above $13 million each.

    CBRE Research executive director Li Hiaw Ho said such deals last month seemed to show prices have remained fairly stable in the past two months.

    ....................

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    C'mon people, do you really think developers will go bust or lose money if they sell at breakeven prices or cost?

    Just look at all the new developments that have come up the last 5 years. They all look bloated because of the bay windows, balconies, AC ledge and planters. While balconies costs 10% extra in terms of DC, all the others are not in the GFA(Gross Floor Area). Meaning bay windows, AC ledge and planters are free space to the developer.

    Just look at the plans for LUMA, the 4 items I mentioned make up for almost 30% of the chargeable strata area. Meaning, if they are selling at $1,550psf, essentially you are paying $2,215psf for actual useable liveable space.

    The buyers should open their eyes properly when viewing showflats. A 1,500sqft apt now looks like a 1,200sqft apt from 10 years ago! Typically current URA regulations allow developers to get away with this, and that is why URA decided to rid of the bay windows and planters from 01 October 2008 but deferred this to 01 Dec 2008.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reporter
    OK. As per what you said, the prices have been manipulated.

    Therefore, we should ignore the ultra-high and the ultra-low of the prices. These have been manipulated.

    Let's all ignore these ultra-high and ultra-low.

    Does that mean you will ignore the ultra-low in the market, e.g. the ultra-low in PI, The Sail, etc.?

    Or you would prefer to ignore the ultra-high but use the ultra-low as the benchmark for the market?


    Seriously, I would prefer to use the ultra-low in the market as a benchmark. If I could buy myself a nice property by just asking the developer to lower the price and not having to work hard, why not?

    Beside property, I am also hoping the same thing can happen to the car market and maybe the tourism market too.

    Oh! I am being nice! I never ask for them to be given free!
    I think so far I have not come across a developer who trumpet that they are benchmarking their px to ultra-low px, so I'm not given the opportunity to even `ignore' the prices.

    BUT, there are many posts, I think its by you incidentally, all over the forum, about how high the px in lakeshore is, and so by common sense, other more prime location should be higher.

    Honestly, I really dun care whether the transaction is real or not. It could be real for all I care but it doesnt change the fact that prices in many prime areas has started to drop and just last week alone, I have viewed 2 units in Novena/ Newton area where the owners are asking $1.1k. Mind you, they are not lousy units but mid-floor, good condition and tenanted as well.

    Like I said, the transaction in some out-lying condo could be real, the buyer maybe wants to stay near their parents and works around that area and the children goes to nearby school. Or it could be that the buyer got a free waiver of mgmt fee for 10 yrs, stamp fee absorption etc other goodies to bring down the effective purchase px. I dunno.

    But, the majority of investors in properties do not care about this particular buyer. So yes, I will ignore this kind of ultra high transaction becoz i can pay $1.1k and get a free-hold Newton/ Novena property. And if I want to, I could even pay below $1k psf for D15 free-hold properties.

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Real Estate Pundit
    C'mon people, do you really think developers will go bust or lose money if they sell at breakeven prices or cost?

    Just look at all the new developments that have come up the last 5 years. They all look bloated because of the bay windows, balconies, AC ledge and planters. While balconies costs 10% extra in terms of DC, all the others are not in the GFA(Gross Floor Area). Meaning bay windows, AC ledge and planters are free space to the developer.

    Just look at the plans for LUMA, the 4 items I mentioned make up for almost 30% of the chargeable strata area. Meaning, if they are selling at $1,550psf, essentially you are paying $2,215psf for actual useable liveable space.

    The buyers should open their eyes properly when viewing showflats. A 1,500sqft apt now looks like a 1,200sqft apt from 10 years ago! Typically current URA regulations allow developers to get away with this, and that is why URA decided to rid of the bay windows and planters from 01 October 2008 but deferred this to 01 Dec 2008.
    Certainly agree with you and not to mention some developer are also building more loft units, which, while they are nice, but to charge these `air space' at current high px is just plain greedy imo.

    Today, they even have the cheek to ask for the ban on DPS to be lifted. Guess developers are feeling the heat too Shameless and greedy beyond hope. Which is why I will never feel sorry if they go burst because when the prices were sky-high, they have never felt sorry for buyers. Why should they? They are not a social not-for-profit organisation. So i will also consider my relationship with developers as business transaction and thus squeeze as much from them as possible, even if they were to go bust. I dun take care of myself, who will? The developer?

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    The problem is most buyers are still not savvy enough when it comes to looking at floor plans.

    I am sure a lot of buyers will go, 'My current 15-yr old apt is 1,200sqft...so the new one at 1,500sqft will be very big'. Little do they know that they are actually downgrading in terms of space. And that is how developers get away with it.

    Has anyone used the phrase 'The Incredible Shrinking Apartment phenomena' yet? I think this will be most apt for projects that came up in the last 5 years and the next 3 to 4 years from now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Real Estate Pundit
    The problem is most buyers are still not savvy enough when it comes to looking at floor plans.

    I am sure a lot of buyers will go, 'My current 15-yr old apt is 1,200sqft...so the new one at 1,500sqft will be very big'. Little do they know that they are actually downgrading in terms of space. And that is how developers get away with it.

    Has anyone used the phrase 'The Incredible Shrinking Apartment phenomena' yet? I think this will be most apt for projects that came up in the last 5 years and the next 3 to 4 years from now.
    At Last , we start to see expertise discussion about GFA and projects
    that is priced way out of line in present market conditions.
    Pls keep coming with your views !!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sea
    Silvesea is still under Private Preview Now..

    Interested buyers may email me at

    [email protected] for a private viewing

    Prices can be discuss for keen buyers

    Please email me for more details

    God Bless

    Have a nice day
    Cheaper than Park Infinia in D11?

    Quote Originally Posted by URA
    Private Residential Units Sold in the Month of October 2008

    Project Name ................ Locality . Units Sold In Month . Highest $psf . Median $psf . Lowest $psf
    Park Infinia at Wee Nam .. CCR ........ 1 ............................... 1,640 ............. 1,640 ............ 1,640

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    Can any agent lists out the good points of about Silversea which worth any buyer paying $1,700psf and above for 11th floor and above (in order to have seaview)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonlcl
    Can any agent lists out the good points of about Silversea which worth any buyer paying $1,700psf and above for 11th floor and above (in order to have seaview)?
    People who brought Silversea have a different lifestyle

    from others , They brought it because they like it...

    offering unblocked Seaview.

    Just like ppl who dun mind spending 100 bucks for a grand dinner

    in a 5 star hotel , others will ask why so expensive , just go

    eat at hawker centre will do lar

    It is all about Taste ......

    If you are rich and have too much cash to spare,

    Will you drive a Honda or a Jaguar or Porsche..?

    It is all about Status..

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    Quote Originally Posted by buy
    People who brought Silversea have a different lifestyle

    from others , They brought it because they like it...

    offering unblocked Seaview.

    Just like ppl who dun mind spending 100 bucks for a grand dinner

    in a 5 star hotel , others will ask why so expensive , just go

    eat at hawker centre will do lar

    It is all about Taste ......

    If you are rich and have too much cash to spare,

    Will you drive a Honda or a Jaguar or Porsche..?

    It is all about Status..
    Get real! Nobody likes losing money. The rich didn't get rich by losing money.

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    Yup..the rich get richer by spending wisely and will not pay the price of Porsche for a Jaguar..

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    oic, so only poor people buy porsche n jaguar???

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    Default Silversea Development Delayed?

    Hey heard rumours Silversea Development is delayed and the developer actually returned the deposit to buyers. Guess $1400psf is really too exp for leasehold. Can anyone verify that? Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by topace
    Hey heard rumours Silversea Development is delayed and the developer actually returned the deposit to buyers. Guess $1400psf is really too exp for leasehold. Can anyone verify that? Thanks.
    Really wonder who can be so dxxx to pay 1400 for silversea when some prime district is now at 1000...

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    Quote Originally Posted by topace
    Hey heard rumours Silversea Development is delayed and the developer actually returned the deposit to buyers. Guess $1400psf is really too exp for leasehold. Can anyone verify that? Thanks.
    If what you say is true... That can only mean one thing.... FEO is going to slash the price down very soon... and does not want to spoil it's reputation on the early buyers.... Wonder what is the re-price?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hayata1972
    If what you say is true... That can only mean one thing.... FEO is going to slash the price down very soon... and does not want to spoil it's reputation on the early buyers.... Wonder what is the re-price?
    About time I guess. It's a pretty decent location, and the place looks good from the signs that I see along the ECP. Far East could still achieve a sell out project with good pricing. The east has it's own charm luh, somehow that itself would sell the units. Look some fellas even paid insane sums of 1400psf!

    Gosh!

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    Quote Originally Posted by lbb
    About time I guess. It's a pretty decent location, and the place looks good from the signs that I see along the ECP. Far East could still achieve a sell out project with good pricing. The east has it's own charm luh, somehow that itself would sell the units. Look some fellas even paid insane sums of 1400psf!

    Gosh!
    $800psf onwards may be a good indicative price for non sea facing units.

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    I won't count on the price coming down too drastically though just yet. FEO had over the recent times released many projects(Waterwave, Jardin, Silversea etc..), perhaps they, like many others, banked on "IR profiteering" before we were aware of the crisis.

    I think they will have to microscope deeper into the potential for each of these projects, not just Silversea, and to decide what pricing to place them, perhaps even releasing them unsold for the rental market.

    Im sure they are also very careful not to appear too desperate to the public.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hayata1972
    $800psf onwards may be a good indicative price for non sea facing units.
    Cmon get real buddy, no way you will see 800 psf

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    Quote Originally Posted by condoinvestor
    Cmon get real buddy, no way you will see 800 psf
    One amber, the esta are already hitting the 7XXpsf region. They are freehold or 999. Silversea is 99 leasehold.

    800psf for Silversea non-sea facing units is already a very positive indicative price.

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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by hayata1972
    One amber, the esta are already hitting the 7XXpsf region. They are freehold or 999. Silversea is 99 leasehold.

    800psf for Silversea non-sea facing units is already a very positive indicative price.
    Hayata are well know to look for cheapskate stuff

    Teh boss is far richer then u leh , i think u worry about yourself first leh

    your house also must be cheapskate also right?

    next time u sell your house, please sell it real cheapskate

    many people will sure buy one Hahahah

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    Quote Originally Posted by buy
    Hayata are well know to look for cheapskate stuff

    Teh boss is far richer then u leh , i think u worry about yourself first leh

    your house also must be cheapskate also right?

    next time u sell your house, please sell it real cheapskate

    many people will sure buy one Hahahah
    Wow, such a immature comment coming from you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hayata1972
    One amber, the esta are already hitting the 7XXpsf region. They are freehold or 999. Silversea is 99 leasehold.

    800psf for Silversea non-sea facing units is already a very positive indicative price.
    These are reasonable quotes in my opinion, however to be more specific with the numbers, the lower psf units are of larger area, the quantum is still quite significant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hayata1972
    One amber, the esta are already hitting the 7XXpsf region. They are freehold or 999. Silversea is 99 leasehold.

    800psf for Silversea non-sea facing units is already a very positive indicative price.
    my dear friend, ps take this as my personal opinion only, comparisons should be between apple to apple or orange to orange, so a good comparison to silversea is cote d azur, same tenure, same road, land parcels next to each other

    Low floor for good units at cda go for abt 900 psf while higher floor seaview units can go for 1000-1200 psf, so I reckon fair price for silversea since it will be new is abt 20% premium over this prices, a far cry from 800 psf, anyway FEO launched at abt 50% premium over cda prices in a poor market, not surprising they could not sell

    FEO is no small developer and has about 3 other parcels of land in the same vicinity, so they hv a lot at stake and my guess is they will not reduce prices drastically

    Cheers and Merry Xmas

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    Quote Originally Posted by condoinvestor
    my dear friend, ps take this as my personal opinion only, comparisons should be between apple to apple or orange to orange, so a good comparison to silversea is cote d azur, same tenure, same road, land parcels next to each other

    Low floor for good units at cda go for abt 900 psf while higher floor seaview units can go for 1000-1200 psf, so I reckon fair price for silversea since it will be new is abt 20% premium over this prices, a far cry from 800 psf, anyway FEO launched at abt 50% premium over cda prices in a poor market, not surprising they could not sell

    FEO is no small developer and has about 3 other parcels of land in the same vicinity, so they hv a lot at stake and my guess is they will not reduce prices drastically

    Cheers and Merry Xmas
    Im wandering when will FEO launch the Silversea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by C.X
    Im wandering when will FEO launch the Silversea.
    You mean re launch...... was already launched in Oct, I went over on the second day, prices for gnd floor to 10th flr 1300 psf upwards, above 10th floor onwards from 1800 psf upward, if I remember correctly, look at history of this forum, there must be some figures posted.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by condoinvestor
    Just held VIP preview today with pretty good sales, do not know the exact number though

    1300 psf upwards to the 10th floor, 1700 psf uwards from 11th floor onwards

    Cote D Azur owners......Congratulations
    Hi CX,
    Apologies, Silversea was launced in Sep, this was my posting to the forum after I visited them, cheers

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