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Thread: Kuwait fund pulls out of bulk purchase of high-end homes

  1. #91
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Kuwait fund pulls out of bulk purchase of high-end homes

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    You are wrong. I am not a property agent.

    I don't think you deal much with property agents, that's why you have this misconception.

    A property agent does not care whether the market goes up or comes down. The agent is only interested in closing deals.

    When the market goes up, they will go around scaring the buyers "if you don't buy today, tomorrow the price will be even higher". When the market goes down, they will go around scaring the sellers "if you don't sell today, tomorrow the price will be even lower".

    Their job is to 见人说人话,见鬼说鬼话. (Translated: see a human speak like a human, see a ghost speak like a ghost).

    To the agent, the most important thing is market activity. Doesn't matter whether price up or price down. Hence this period when buyers and sellers are deadlocked and the market is very quiet, I suppose, is a difficult time for agents.

    In fact, if the market starts crashing down and sellers panic, with many many deals closed per month, agency commissions will in fact be very high.

    This is yet another example of the ignorance of sour grapes.

    The first is one who confused "The Bayshore" with "Bayshore Park".
    The second is one who does not realise that bulk property purchases are usually discounted.
    The third is one who does not know that a bank's job is to lend money and not to speculate in properties.
    Now this is a fourth one.

    I wonder if they are all the same person. Or are all sour grapes so ignorant?
    If someone who isn't ignorant how to become a sour grape?

    Sour grape is like butterfly which goes thru metamorphosis process. It started from an ignorant, and then turns into a naive and eventually to become a sour grape.

  2. #92
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Kuwait fund pulls out of bulk purchase of high-end homes

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    This is not projection - it's real economics. That's how cities like London and New York have been running. You should wake up from your dream.
    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    Is that true? How come I don't hv such problem? I and most of my colleage agree that we are more than afford to buy a house in Singapore. In fact, we see the current ppty prices are still too cheap compared to our earning power. It's peanut, man.
    Aiyoh ... my goodness, I can foresee what sort of response your post is going to get from the sour grapes.

    I don't think he will believe you, because he probably lives in a world surrounded by people within the same social class.

    The problem here, I believe, is that there are two classes of people talking to each other. That's why sometimes it turns out 牛头不对马嘴 (Crosstalk).

    Let me post below some information from IRAS Annual Report 2006 (the latest available). I shall ignore those who earn less than $200,000 per year.

    $200,001 to $300,000 per year: 23,092 taxpayers.
    $300,001 to $400,000 per year: 9,257 taxpayers.
    $400,001 to $500,000 per year: 4,259 taxpayers.
    $500,001 to $1,000,000 per year: 5,759 taxpayers.
    $1,000,001 and above per year: 2,121 taxpayers.

    Total number of taxpayers earning more than $200,000 per year: 44,488.

    There are 44,488 people in Singapore earning more than $200,000 per year.

    What do we do with all these money? That is one problem. Keep in the bank? The interest is really, I repeat, really miserable.

    Buy cars? It's a depreciating asset, and you only need one to get around.

    Buy planes? That's for tycoons.

    Finally, you know what we buy.

    Every few years, when the money in the bank grows to a certain amount, there is an urge to use it.

    The first thing that comes to mind is properties. It's like a hobby.

  3. #93
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Kuwait fund pulls out of bulk purchase of high-end homes

    Originally Posted by Unregistered
    But if you are not holding the end product, you should not be buying a hot potato because you will be paying the inflated construction costs and also someone's profit.

    So the moral is: If you own something, hold on. If you don't own something, don't buy a hot potato.
    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    Hot potato? ha ha ha .......

    You should better check out the headline in "Business Times" today. It reported that HK had surged by more than 25% for the last 3 months. This is due to the panic buyers who saw by the high inflation coupled with the constant upward rental pressure. Ppl rushed in to buy their own home to hedge against the inflation.

    I believe the situation mirror very closely here in Singapore. Ppl should not be distracted too much by the credit crunch in US and missed the big picture. Singapore ppty are going to surge up by at least 30% very soon.
    I believe the article you are referring to is the one below ...

    I've highlighted certain interesting facts in bold red.

    p.s. The following article is REAL.

    Unlike the sour grapes, I don't say things without supporting facts.

    Business Times

    17 Mar 2008

    HK houses going for HK$300m

    Supply squeeze on luxury homes seen driving up prices by 25% this year

    By JANE MOIR
    IN HONG KONG

    HOUSES at The Peak are fetching close to HK$300 million (S$53 million), and are still rising. This epitomises Hong Kong's very hot luxury property market, which is facing a tight supply squeeze. As a result, prices for top-tier homes are expected to skyrocket by 25 per cent this year alone.

    In what is likely the most supply-challenged year since 1997, fewer than 200 units are expected to become available in ultra-high-end residential areas such as The Peak and the South Side, where prices for standalone houses are going for nearly HK$300 million.

    In the last quarter of 2007 alone, luxury residential prices at The Peak rose by 11.8 per cent, according to data from property group Colliers International (Hong Kong).

    The property firm anticipates growth of 25 per cent in the luxury sector this year. Moreover, supply is unlikely to become better next year and in 2010, it notes.

    According to Ricky Poon, executive director of sales at Colliers in Hong Kong, prices at the top end of the market are already outstripping those seen during the previous property market highs of 1997.

    'In the super-luxury home area (where properties fetch HK$100 million and above), the prices are transcending the overall luxury market price,' he noted. This would include houses that are in scarce supply in areas such as The Peak - in October, for example, one house there sold for HK$296 million.

    'There is limited land supply . . . all the developers are hungry for the prestigious locations,' Mr Poon added.

    Some developers have tried to trigger land sales by putting in applications for plots with the government, but the requests have been rejected.
    'The government has a high expectation for these types of locations,' Mr Poon explained. 'They expect more money for it.'

    He said that the situation is unlikely to improve in the next three years, leading to a situation where stock will fall to as much as 59 per cent below historical averages.


    On The Peak, for example, Colliers expects just 18 new houses to become available this year. On the South Side, it expects 11 new units to be completed during the year, while the Mid-Levels is likely to see 165 units become available.

    The real estate firm estimates that just under 1,000 units in the residential sector will be completed in 2008, the majority being in the Residence Bel Air complex near the Cyberport development.

    According to Mr Poon, among the top buyers of the super-luxurious homes are mainland Chinese. 'I would say 50 to 60 per cent are mainland Chinese, and the rest are mainly second-generation wealthy or celebrities, with a few expatriates,' he said.

    Hong Kong's property market has seen a significant upswing on the heels of buoyant stock market activity and the Fed's series of interest rate cuts.
    And as inflation in the city increases and rents are pushed upwards
    , people are opting to buy into the residential sector.

    In November, the number of sale and purchase agreements for residential units rose to 15,759, the biggest number of transactions in a single month since July 1997.

    In the luxury sector, the number of sale transactions exceeding HK$10 million saw growth of 40 per cent between September and November compared with the year-ago period.

    Copyright © 2007 Singapore Press Holdings Ltd. All rights reserved.

  4. #94
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Kuwait fund pulls out of bulk purchase of high-end homes

    Today newspaper just revealed that Kuwait is in trouble. The ministers in Kuwait's Cabinet submitted their resignation en masse yesterday, in the latest political crisis to hit the Gulf emirate.

    That could be the main reason for them to pull out the purchase.

  5. #95
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Kuwait fund pulls out of bulk purchase of high-end homes

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    Follow HK? Their budget is so much better than us without the GST. I don't even dare to mention their infrastructure.
    What is their infrastructure compared to ours going on? Our potential is huge.

  6. #96
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Kuwait fund pulls out of bulk purchase of high-end homes

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    Recession would bring a slump in prices. No demand would add to the slump. Credit crunch would further bring down the exhorbitant prices by about 40%. Prices would come down for sure.
    That is US.

    We are in Asia and this forum is for ppty investment in Singapore.

  7. #97
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Kuwait fund pulls out of bulk purchase of high-end homes

    My argument is this.

    If I wait at the sideline for the prices to be corrected - say 10% to 20% - I believe the price will rebound back very fast, as there are massive demand and thousands of buyers in the waiting.

    And once the prices find it base, guess what, it's going to escalate up even more rapidly as the investor strengtening their holding power and as time passes the global economy has also recovered strongly.

    As such, I believe waiting in the sideline is going to be a losing strategy. It's better to jump in now than later, before other buyers start lining up like ppl ballot to get a HDB.

  8. #98
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Kuwait fund pulls out of bulk purchase of high-end homes

    I think a good percentage of these are foreign expatriates who will butterfly to other countries or return home once their contract ends.

    They will not want to buy a house in Singapore other than for speculative or at best short-term investment purpose.

    I agree that buying properties are good investments compared to bank deposits. But timing is of utmost importance. You buy at the peak, you will be stuck for decades and suffer heartburn for prolonged period. This applies regardless of which income bracket you belong.


    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    Aiyoh ... my goodness, I can foresee what sort of response your post is going to get from the sour grapes.

    I don't think he will believe you, because he probably lives in a world surrounded by people within the same social class.

    The problem here, I believe, is that there are two classes of people talking to each other. That's why sometimes it turns out 牛头不对马嘴 (Crosstalk).

    Let me post below some information from IRAS Annual Report 2006 (the latest available). I shall ignore those who earn less than $200,000 per year.

    $200,001 to $300,000 per year: 23,092 taxpayers.
    $300,001 to $400,000 per year: 9,257 taxpayers.
    $400,001 to $500,000 per year: 4,259 taxpayers.
    $500,001 to $1,000,000 per year: 5,759 taxpayers.
    $1,000,001 and above per year: 2,121 taxpayers.

    Total number of taxpayers earning more than $200,000 per year: 44,488.

    There are 44,488 people in Singapore earning more than $200,000 per year.

    What do we do with all these money? That is one problem. Keep in the bank? The interest is really, I repeat, really miserable.

    Buy cars? It's a depreciating asset, and you only need one to get around.

    Buy planes? That's for tycoons.

    Finally, you know what we buy.

    Every few years, when the money in the bank grows to a certain amount, there is an urge to use it.

    The first thing that comes to mind is properties. It's like a hobby.

  9. #99
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Kuwait fund pulls out of bulk purchase of high-end homes

    If you are really bullish on the economy, there are 101 things which you can presently buy at great discounts. Property counters, REITS, etc. They are all trading at 20% - 50% discount to NTAs.

    They probably offer better value than actual properties. Besides, share prices have dropped so much that, if indeed there will be a quick recovery of the economy like what you are dreaming of, the speed and magnitude of gain is likely to dwarf that of the property market.

    Property market typically trail the stock market by one year. In my honest opinion, it is currently trailing the decline.


    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    My argument is this.

    If I wait at the sideline for the prices to be corrected - say 10% to 20% - I believe the price will rebound back very fast, as there are massive demand and thousands of buyers in the waiting.

    And once the prices find it base, guess what, it's going to escalate up even more rapidly as the investor strengtening their holding power and as time passes the global economy has also recovered strongly.

    As such, I believe waiting in the sideline is going to be a losing strategy. It's better to jump in now than later, before other buyers start lining up like ppl ballot to get a HDB.

  10. #100
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Kuwait fund pulls out of bulk purchase of high-end homes

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    If you are really bullish on the economy, there are 101 things which you can presently buy at great discounts. Property counters, REITS, etc. They are all trading at 20% - 50% discount to NTAs.

    They probably offer better value than actual properties. Besides, share prices have dropped so much that, if indeed there will be a quick recovery of the economy like what you are dreaming of, the speed and magnitude of gain is likely to dwarf that of the property market.

    Property market typically trail the stock market by one year. In my honest opinion, it is currently trailing the decline.


    don't be naive, physical property is different from property counters in stock market.
    Property stock has come down since last year, but property is still moving upwards.
    Especially those small & medium size property counters, also Reits, if you do not know the company well, avoid them. Many stock can just disappear from stock market or down to few cents for a long time.
    For physical property if you can hold sure make money in long run regardless the location or size. Rental yield is also better as there is no guarantee you will get dividend.

  11. #101
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Kuwait fund pulls out of bulk purchase of high-end homes

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    If you are really bullish on the economy, there are 101 things which you can presently buy at great discounts. Property counters, REITS, etc. They are all trading at 20% - 50% discount to NTAs.

    They probably offer better value than actual properties. Besides, share prices have dropped so much that, if indeed there will be a quick recovery of the economy like what you are dreaming of, the speed and magnitude of gain is likely to dwarf that of the property market.

    Property market typically trail the stock market by one year. In my honest opinion, it is currently trailing the decline.
    You are right that the property market typically trails the stock market by one year. This is because the property market is sluggish and has great inertia, whereas the stock market is nimble and reacts quickly to news.

    Hence if you analyse the two market trends, you will notice that the property market hasn't even trailed the stock market's upward explosion from 3000 points in Jan 2007 to 3905 in Oct 2007, so how can the property market even start trailing the stock market's decline yet?

    The property market's upward explosion for the past two years, i.e. 2006 and 2007 is actually trailing the stock market's upward explosion in 2005 and 2006, respectively.

    From Jan 2005 to Dec 2006, the Straits Times Industrial Index (STI) went up from 2000 points to 3000 points, an increase of 50%. This is approximately equal to the percentage increase in the property market for the last two years 2006 and 2007.

    As for the STI's overshot to 3905 all-time high in Oct 2007, the property market hasn't even have time to react to that yet, since property trails stocks by about one year.

    Hence today, as the stock market falls back down to around 2825 points, the property market should be at fair value.

    However, if the STI had stayed around 3905 for one year, then one year later (i.e. 2009) the property market will probably reach a super redhot level where you see Orchard Road properties being transacted at $7000 psf (instead of $4000 to $5000 psf), and mass market condos at $1,100 psf instead of ($800 psf), and HDB flats in popular areas crossing the $1 million mark.

    But that will not happen now because the STI has come down. So I think if the STI hovers around this level, the property market will also hover around this level.

    Unless, of course, the STI crashes to below 2000 points, then that's a different story altogether.

  12. #102
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Kuwait fund pulls out of bulk purchase of high-end homes

    It is an illusion to think that property is moving upwards when there are so few buyers. This stand-off has to be resolve somehow in a game of who-blinks-first.

    Even those who argue about good rental yields are plastering over the fact that speculators have bought into new developments with 20% under DPS and are obviously receiving no returns for these stagnant funds. They will have to convince banks to lend them funds when TOP comes around. Would the banks believe their stories about rental then?

  13. #103
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Kuwait fund pulls out of bulk purchase of high-end homes

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    It is an illusion to think that property is moving upwards when there are so few buyers. This stand-off has to be resolve somehow in a game of who-blinks-first.

    Even those who argue about good rental yields are plastering over the fact that speculators have bought into new developments with 20% under DPS and are obviously receiving no returns for these stagnant funds. They will have to convince banks to lend them funds when TOP comes around. Would the banks believe their stories about rental then?
    You assume too much about speculators.

    Who do you think are speculators?

    The engineer who earns $4000 a month? Or the computer programmer who earns $3000 a month?

    These are the people who write to forums in Straits Times complaining about HDB flats being too expensive. Not people who plonk down 20% for a multi million-dollar property.

    Of course there may be the odd ones out who are so bold, but they are the very very minority. Otherwise Singapore will be flooded with entrepreneurs and not sour grapes.

    With the exception of a few, most "speculators" have fairly deep pockets.

    I have a "speculative" property for which I placed a 20% TOP (you are worried about no returns? If I put the money in the bank, the interest is also about 0%).

    The TOP is coming but I am still holding to it because it has appreciated about 100% since I bought in 2005.

    Even if it is not rented out (I don't know how you have this idea that it cannot be rented out) but assuming so, I have already secured the bank financing just by showing the bank my IRAS statement and they are very convinced. So I don't see why they need to know about the rental yield.

    Coming to the last part (the rental yield), even if I ask for a rent equal to that commanded by HDB flats in that area, I can still earn a yield enough to pay the interest to the bank.

    You must understand that the market has moved up rapidly over the past 3 years. Not only the capital value but rental as well.

    The projects coming TOP soon are those that are bought around 2005 and we are sitting on very huge paper profits. The rental during this period has gone crazy, including the HDB flats.

    Perhaps you can help us "worry" about those projects that are bought in 2007 and going to TOP in 2010, assuming the US sub-prime problem drags on until then.

  14. #104
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Kuwait fund pulls out of bulk purchase of high-end homes

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    You assume too much about speculators.

    Who do you think are speculators?

    The engineer who earns $4000 a month? Or the computer programmer who earns $3000 a month?

    These are the people who write to forums in Straits Times complaining about HDB flats being too expensive. Not people who plonk down 20% for a multi million-dollar property.

    Of course there may be the odd ones out who are so bold, but they are the very very minority. Otherwise Singapore will be flooded with entrepreneurs and not sour grapes.

    With the exception of a few, most "speculators" have fairly deep pockets.

    I have a "speculative" property for which I placed a 20% TOP (you are worried about no returns? If I put the money in the bank, the interest is also about 0%).

    The TOP is coming but I am still holding to it because it has appreciated about 100% since I bought in 2005.

    Even if it is not rented out (I don't know how you have this idea that it cannot be rented out) but assuming so, I have already secured the bank financing just by showing the bank my IRAS statement and they are very convinced. So I don't see why they need to know about the rental yield.

    Coming to the last part (the rental yield), even if I ask for a rent equal to that commanded by HDB flats in that area, I can still earn a yield enough to pay the interest to the bank.

    You must understand that the market has moved up rapidly over the past 3 years. Not only the capital value but rental as well.

    The projects coming TOP soon are those that are bought around 2005 and we are sitting on very huge paper profits. The rental during this period has gone crazy, including the HDB flats.

    Perhaps you can help us "worry" about those projects that are bought in 2007 and going to TOP in 2010, assuming the US sub-prime problem drags on until then.
    Great post. Very well written and captures the essence of the debate. This is Reality versus Myth.

  15. #105
    BayshorePark-Enbloc Guest

    Default Re: Kuwait fund pulls out of bulk purchase of high-end homes

    experts any ideas when this beautiful place will be enblocked and better apartments than existing can be built . I hope they keep landscaping on high prioprity whenever this place is rebuilt. Landscaping is the one thing which attracts locals as well as foreigners to this place.

  16. #106
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Kuwait fund pulls out of bulk purchase of high-end homes

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    Shakespeare's famous quotation "some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them."

    Here in this forum we see "Some are born poor, some achieve poorness and some have poorness thrust upon them."

    They've got nothing better to do than hoping that the property market collapses, or hallucinating about placing 1% deposits.

    Sori to interrupt.

    These people did not achieve poorness or have poorness thrust upon them; they are merely GAMBLERS, gambling with the market.

    And we need them, plenty of them whether in the property market, in the stock market or on the casino tables, otherwise Singapore won't be building the IRs!

  17. #107
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Kuwait fund pulls out of bulk purchase of high-end homes

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    My brother who works in the property industry told me that construction cost has risen to around $450 psf.

    This is primarily due to the contnuous increase in steel price and labour costs, plus one off cement price hike due to Indonesia's sand ban.

    China's voracious appetite for raw materials and minerals caused asset inflation throughout the world and a relentless rise in the Australian dollar due to its huge mineral resources.

    At the same time, our construction of the two Integrated Resorts and MRT lines sucked away a lot of construction resources. Nowdays contractors are very busy and even crane operators are earning $8000 per month with overtime.

    Can you imagine just the construction cost alone today is equal to the price of entire mass market condo a few years' back. That's not including land costs and developers' margins.

    That's why developers are now being squeezed and their share price has fallen a lot.

    But if you are holding the end product, i.e. a completed condo unit, then that means you are hedged against further raw material cost inflation.

    And if the developers hold back or cancel launches, that means the supply will be even less.

    Add to that the 80,000 new citizens and PRs coming in every year, I forsee a potentially explosive situation in the rental market.

    The property market has been holding back recently due to the sub-prime issue, like an arrow on bow with a stretched string. Once the sub-prime blows over, the price is going to shoot through the sky.
    Sorry, your brother works in the property industry (meaning housing developer or housing agents), but I am a building contractor and I can vouch for your brother only in the high end developments selling above $2,500 psf., definitely not for the mass market developments.

    Before the Indonesian sand fiasco, construction cost was only in the region of $180 to $220 psf (depending on quality of finish, height, foundation, etc.), but after the big hoo haa and the inflation on steel and concrete, construction costs are now in the region of $250 - $280, definitely not doubled to $450!

    To verify my statement above, just look at last Monday's ST on the money page whereby the West Coast Cresecent plot was sold for $305 psf, and the article projected that the final sale price would be $750 to $800 psf. If the construction cost is indeed $450 psf or thereabouts, then add this to the land acquisition cost of $305, the primary costs, excluding marketing and financiing costs, professional and govt fees, developer's profit, etc., would have been more than the $750 psf sale price.

  18. #108
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Kuwait fund pulls out of bulk purchase of high-end homes

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    It is an illusion to think that property is moving upwards when there are so few buyers. This stand-off has to be resolve somehow in a game of who-blinks-first.

    Even those who argue about good rental yields are plastering over the fact that speculators have bought into new developments with 20% under DPS and are obviously receiving no returns for these stagnant funds. They will have to convince banks to lend them funds when TOP comes around. Would the banks believe their stories about rental then?

    Perhaps the Kuwait fund fiasco can be explained by the marathon race if we can compare the property market with the marathon.

    At one point, usually the start, you see all the runners dashing with explosive energy -- looks like the property market in June 2007, doesn't it?

    Somewhere 5 km down the track, you don't see so many runners because they need to take slow down to refill their lungs, for some, others continue their surge, like the current property market.

    That is why the prices remains relatively firm and, in fact, some even broke records set during the June - Nov 2007 period.

    If you position yourself at the finishing line or somewhere in the last lap of the race, you can see another surge and plenty of runners forcing themselves to the finishing line.

    In between the race, at different stages, you can always see some runners slowing down, while others surging ahead.

    Look at last Tuesday's ST's Money Page report on the West Coast Cresecent plot where the 99-year State land plot was invaded by a WHOPPING 12 bids, whereas a week earlier (or so?), the Westwood Avenue site was deserted like a cemetry and the sale had to be withdrawn.

    Unfortunately, the property market is not a marathon so we won't know where's the starting line and where's the finish. Just use our sixth sense and try our luck.

    On the brighter side, I would like to have more foreign funds like the Kuwait, to speculate in our property market. Why, you would ask?

    At first glance, it is bad because they have more money and therefore push up prices.

    But if Edward de Bono has his way, the other view, like the Kuwait fund, is to help our developers balance their books so that the same property, after forfeiting the deposit, can be resold to locals at lower prices -- lateral thinking, that is.

    Have a nice weekend tossing your coin.

  19. #109
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Kuwait fund pulls out of bulk purchase of high-end homes

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    Sorry, your brother works in the property industry (meaning housing developer or housing agents), but I am a building contractor and I can vouch for your brother only in the high end developments selling above $2,500 psf., definitely not for the mass market developments.

    Before the Indonesian sand fiasco, construction cost was only in the region of $180 to $220 psf (depending on quality of finish, height, foundation, etc.), but after the big hoo haa and the inflation on steel and concrete, construction costs are now in the region of $250 - $280, definitely not doubled to $450!

    To verify my statement above, just look at last Monday's ST on the money page whereby the West Coast Cresecent plot was sold for $305 psf, and the article projected that the final sale price would be $750 to $800 psf. If the construction cost is indeed $450 psf or thereabouts, then add this to the land acquisition cost of $305, the primary costs, excluding marketing and financiing costs, professional and govt fees, developer's profit, etc., would have been more than the $750 psf sale price.
    sorry your info is incorrect. current construction cost for entry level condo is $380-420 psf and climbing. please don't mislead readers here. ST article clearly quote breakeven price of $680-720 with possible selling price of $750-800.

  20. #110
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Kuwait fund pulls out of bulk purchase of high-end homes

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    Sorry, your brother works in the property industry (meaning housing developer or housing agents), but I am a building contractor and I can vouch for your brother only in the high end developments selling above $2,500 psf., definitely not for the mass market developments.

    Before the Indonesian sand fiasco, construction cost was only in the region of $180 to $220 psf (depending on quality of finish, height, foundation, etc.), but after the big hoo haa and the inflation on steel and concrete, construction costs are now in the region of $250 - $280, definitely not doubled to $450!

    To verify my statement above, just look at last Monday's ST on the money page whereby the West Coast Cresecent plot was sold for $305 psf, and the article projected that the final sale price would be $750 to $800 psf. If the construction cost is indeed $450 psf or thereabouts, then add this to the land acquisition cost of $305, the primary costs, excluding marketing and financiing costs, professional and govt fees, developer's profit, etc., would have been more than the $750 psf sale price.
    You can go bid for MacRitchie car park project since your cost is $150-200 below market price. Who are you trying to con here.

  21. #111
    Unregistered Guest

    Wink Re: Kuwait fund pulls out of bulk purchase of high-end homes

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    Sorry, your brother works in the property industry (meaning housing developer or housing agents), but I am a building contractor and I can vouch for your brother only in the high end developments selling above $2,500 psf., definitely not for the mass market developments.

    Before the Indonesian sand fiasco, construction cost was only in the region of $180 to $220 psf (depending on quality of finish, height, foundation, etc.), but after the big hoo haa and the inflation on steel and concrete, construction costs are now in the region of $250 - $280, definitely not doubled to $450!

    To verify my statement above, just look at last Monday's ST on the money page whereby the West Coast Cresecent plot was sold for $305 psf, and the article projected that the final sale price would be $750 to $800 psf. If the construction cost is indeed $450 psf or thereabouts, then add this to the land acquisition cost of $305, the primary costs, excluding marketing and financiing costs, professional and govt fees, developer's profit, etc., would have been more than the $750 psf sale price.
    I agree with you, I am in the construction industries too. that fellow bullshit in Condosingapore.com too.

  22. #112
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Kuwait fund pulls out of bulk purchase of high-end homes

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    You assume too much about speculators.

    Who do you think are speculators?

    The engineer who earns $4000 a month? Or the computer programmer who earns $3000 a month?

    These are the people who write to forums in Straits Times complaining about HDB flats being too expensive. Not people who plonk down 20% for a multi million-dollar property.

    Of course there may be the odd ones out who are so bold, but they are the very very minority. Otherwise Singapore will be flooded with entrepreneurs and not sour grapes.

    With the exception of a few, most "speculators" have fairly deep pockets.

    I have a "speculative" property for which I placed a 20% TOP (you are worried about no returns? If I put the money in the bank, the interest is also about 0%).

    The TOP is coming but I am still holding to it because it has appreciated about 100% since I bought in 2005.

    Even if it is not rented out (I don't know how you have this idea that it cannot be rented out) but assuming so, I have already secured the bank financing just by showing the bank my IRAS statement and they are very convinced. So I don't see why they need to know about the rental yield.

    Coming to the last part (the rental yield), even if I ask for a rent equal to that commanded by HDB flats in that area, I can still earn a yield enough to pay the interest to the bank.

    You must understand that the market has moved up rapidly over the past 3 years. Not only the capital value but rental as well.

    The projects coming TOP soon are those that are bought around 2005 and we are sitting on very huge paper profits. The rental during this period has gone crazy, including the HDB flats.

    Perhaps you can help us "worry" about those projects that are bought in 2007 and going to TOP in 2010, assuming the US sub-prime problem drags on until then.
    Aiya .. can't even understand simple logic. Not yet TOP how to get rental? So money is sitting with developer right? No returns yet right?

    As for 100% gain, that is your claim. Who knows? And who cares? No worries mate. Go and make your money.

    But some will get burnt - maybe you, maybe not you. Just a faceless speculator to us. We are just discussing whether prices go up or down, not who makes the money.

  23. #113
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Kuwait fund pulls out of bulk purchase of high-end homes

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    I agree with you, I am in the construction industries too. that fellow bullshit in Condosingapore.com too.
    Isn't this website Condosingapore.com?

  24. #114
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Kuwait fund pulls out of bulk purchase of high-end homes

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    I agree with you, I am in the construction industries too. that fellow bullshit in Condosingapore.com too.
    You are in the construction industry then you should be happy that construction costs increase and property market rises.

    Construction boom means more business for you.

    Why you side with the "sour grapes"?

  25. #115
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Kuwait fund pulls out of bulk purchase of high-end homes

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    You are in the construction industry then you should be happy that construction costs increase and property market rises.

    Construction boom means more business for you.

    Why you side with the "sour grapes"?
    Good one. When all the bad news are not able to send prices down to the level that they expect. The sour grapes get frustrated and start spining lies to distort construction cost.

  26. #116
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Kuwait fund pulls out of bulk purchase of high-end homes

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    Good one. When all the bad news are not able to send prices down to the level that they expect. The sour grapes get frustrated and start spining lies to distort construction cost.

    I think you are more frustrated with sour grapes and that made you even more sour.

  27. #117
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Kuwait fund pulls out of bulk purchase of high-end homes

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    Aiya .. can't even understand simple logic. Not yet TOP how to get rental? So money is sitting with developer right? No returns yet right?

    As for 100% gain, that is your claim. Who knows? And who cares? No worries mate. Go and make your money.

    But some will get burnt - maybe you, maybe not you. Just a faceless speculator to us. We are just discussing whether prices go up or down, not who makes the money.
    Can, probably getting some rentals from those construction workers.

  28. #118
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Kuwait fund pulls out of bulk purchase of high-end homes

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    You are in the construction industry then you should be happy that construction costs increase and property market rises.

    Construction boom means more business for you.

    Why you side with the "sour grapes"?
    If construction cost is $450psf currently and inflation is getting higher at this rate, contraxtors will close down by year end. Then can wait longer for TOP. Also can resell the unit at higher price.

  29. #119
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Kuwait fund pulls out of bulk purchase of high-end homes

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    If construction cost is $450psf currently and inflation is getting higher at this rate, contraxtors will close down by year end. Then can wait longer for TOP. Also can resell the unit at higher price.

    few ways,
    building cost keep going up, delay completion date, less units TOP, limit supply in next 5 years.
    completed per schedule, increased price.
    no launching, no new supply OR launch at high price like HDB.
    HDB will be selling at market price, if they are going to subsidise, then all sporean should entitle to the same subsidiesd $ in their bank account. That is fair & equal.
    If want to subsidise, account book must be clear to publish out & transparent.

  30. #120
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: Kuwait fund pulls out of bulk purchase of high-end homes

    Heard Kuwaiti fund is still in the process of finalising deal with Guocoland. I think a fair price will be around $2600psf instead of $3200psf. Let's see

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