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Thread: 400 cheques collected for Hillford

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    Default 400 cheques collected for Hillford

    http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/prem...urdle-20140107

    Hillford's 60-year lease may pose financing hurdle
    But project may be seen as affordable way to buy into Bukit Timah address

    [SINGAPORE] While The Hillford could offer potential buyers a chance to buy into the highly desired Bukit Timah address cheaply, demand could be limited by its 60-year leasehold.
    Marketed as the first retirement resort in Singapore - albeit with no age limit placed on potential buyers - the 281-unit project offers a mix of one-, two- and two-bedroom dual-key units which are equipped with built-in elder-friendly features.
    Both young and old thronged the showflat when it opened on Saturday; according to a market watcher, of the more than 400 cheques that have since been collected, the majority were from younger investors.
    Key pull factors for the project include its attractive quantum and location.
    Indicative prices for units start from $980 per square foot (psf), which translates into about $388,000 for a one-bedroom unit, $498,000 for a two-bedroom unit and $648,000 for a two-bedroom dual-key unit.
    "It is like a legitimate shoebox development in a very attractive RCR (Rest of Central Region) location," said a market watcher.
    Given that there are no restrictions on either ownership or tenant mix, it is not surprising that the project attracts younger investors, said Christine Li, head of research at OrangeTee.
    "The indicative price is still on the high side, but given that there are fewer such small developments around the area, it probably will not deter people from buying," she said, noting that the latest launch in the area, Creek@Bukit, achieved a median price of $1,637 psf when it was launched last November.
    Ms Li expects The Hillford to attract a mixed group of buyers spanning singles, downgraders in their 50s and 60s, and even investors who might have previously been priced out of the market because of the Total Debt Servicing Ratio (TDSR) and other cooling measures.
    But given the 60-year leasehold cap, investors might find it harder to finance the property since it may be harder to get bank loans for a shorter lease, said Nicholas Mak, head of research at SLP International.
    Unloading the property in the resale market might prove a challenge, too. After five years, for instance (assuming the buyer holds the property for five years to avoid paying Seller's Stamp Duty), the development would have a remaining lease of 55 years. Based on the remaining tenure, a 30-year-old buyer can only withdraw up to 55 per cent of the value left in his or her Central Provident Fund. This assumes that the above sum is up to 55 per cent of the lower of the purchase price or the value of the property.
    Another factor that could potentially limit the scope of buyers is the design of the project, said Desmond Sim, associate director at CBRE Research.
    According to the developer World Class Land, the project was designed to be "significantly different" from that of a typical condominium, given its specially tailored facilities, elder- friendly features, and provision of services such as a 24-hour concierge service and dedicated Resort Manager.
    "Is this the cheapest way to get a condo in the Bukit Timah area? Yes. But at the end of the day, it is marketed and designed for the elderly so you may not get the amenities and features of a lifestyle home," said Mr Sim.
    Consultants agree that the project will likely do well, regardless of its buyer profile.
    Indeed, more such sites could potentially be offered, said Donald Han, managing director at Chesterton Singapore.
    "(The introduction of The Hillford) creates an interesting variety of products that is available on the market ... If we don't create such spaces, a lot of demand might filter into other countries," he said.
    CBRE's Mr Sim agreed: "This is a pilot project. When it does well, it will spark off other projects. Maybe in the suburbs, where costs can be further managed ... I think if the government feels they have succeeded in reducing the cost of home ownership for the elderly, they may roll out one or two more sites in different locations."
    But perhaps instead of the closed-envelope system currently employed, the government should consider a point system where every developer submits two prices - a land price and a product launch price, suggested SLP's Mr Mak.
    "Higher land price, higher points; lower launch price, higher points," said Mr Mak. "In this way, they will be able to award the land to the most efficient developer."

  2. #2
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    400 idiots! What can we say?

    Quote Originally Posted by princess_morbucks View Post
    http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/prem...urdle-20140107

    Hillford's 60-year lease may pose financing hurdle
    But project may be seen as affordable way to buy into Bukit Timah address

    [SINGAPORE] While The Hillford could offer potential buyers a chance to buy into the highly desired Bukit Timah address cheaply, demand could be limited by its 60-year leasehold.
    Marketed as the first retirement resort in Singapore - albeit with no age limit placed on potential buyers - the 281-unit project offers a mix of one-, two- and two-bedroom dual-key units which are equipped with built-in elder-friendly features.
    Both young and old thronged the showflat when it opened on Saturday; according to a market watcher, of the more than 400 cheques that have since been collected, the majority were from younger investors.
    Key pull factors for the project include its attractive quantum and location.
    Indicative prices for units start from $980 per square foot (psf), which translates into about $388,000 for a one-bedroom unit, $498,000 for a two-bedroom unit and $648,000 for a two-bedroom dual-key unit.
    "It is like a legitimate shoebox development in a very attractive RCR (Rest of Central Region) location," said a market watcher.
    Given that there are no restrictions on either ownership or tenant mix, it is not surprising that the project attracts younger investors, said Christine Li, head of research at OrangeTee.
    "The indicative price is still on the high side, but given that there are fewer such small developments around the area, it probably will not deter people from buying," she said, noting that the latest launch in the area, Creek@Bukit, achieved a median price of $1,637 psf when it was launched last November.
    Ms Li expects The Hillford to attract a mixed group of buyers spanning singles, downgraders in their 50s and 60s, and even investors who might have previously been priced out of the market because of the Total Debt Servicing Ratio (TDSR) and other cooling measures.
    But given the 60-year leasehold cap, investors might find it harder to finance the property since it may be harder to get bank loans for a shorter lease, said Nicholas Mak, head of research at SLP International.
    Unloading the property in the resale market might prove a challenge, too. After five years, for instance (assuming the buyer holds the property for five years to avoid paying Seller's Stamp Duty), the development would have a remaining lease of 55 years. Based on the remaining tenure, a 30-year-old buyer can only withdraw up to 55 per cent of the value left in his or her Central Provident Fund. This assumes that the above sum is up to 55 per cent of the lower of the purchase price or the value of the property.
    Another factor that could potentially limit the scope of buyers is the design of the project, said Desmond Sim, associate director at CBRE Research.
    According to the developer World Class Land, the project was designed to be "significantly different" from that of a typical condominium, given its specially tailored facilities, elder- friendly features, and provision of services such as a 24-hour concierge service and dedicated Resort Manager.
    "Is this the cheapest way to get a condo in the Bukit Timah area? Yes. But at the end of the day, it is marketed and designed for the elderly so you may not get the amenities and features of a lifestyle home," said Mr Sim.
    Consultants agree that the project will likely do well, regardless of its buyer profile.
    Indeed, more such sites could potentially be offered, said Donald Han, managing director at Chesterton Singapore.
    "(The introduction of The Hillford) creates an interesting variety of products that is available on the market ... If we don't create such spaces, a lot of demand might filter into other countries," he said.
    CBRE's Mr Sim agreed: "This is a pilot project. When it does well, it will spark off other projects. Maybe in the suburbs, where costs can be further managed ... I think if the government feels they have succeeded in reducing the cost of home ownership for the elderly, they may roll out one or two more sites in different locations."
    But perhaps instead of the closed-envelope system currently employed, the government should consider a point system where every developer submits two prices - a land price and a product launch price, suggested SLP's Mr Mak.
    "Higher land price, higher points; lower launch price, higher points," said Mr Mak. "In this way, they will be able to award the land to the most efficient developer."

  3. #3
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    everyone cheonging the one bedder?

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    400 idiots! What can we say?
    once the price is out and confirmed, it maybe reduce to 200 only.

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    Why do young investors buy? Hoping to lease out to retirees? Will retirees pay high rental for this place? Seems like a place for well heeled retirees....

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    Quote Originally Posted by mummy View Post
    Why do young investors buy? Hoping to lease out to retirees? Will retirees pay high rental for this place? Seems like a place for well heeled retirees....
    pure MM play. Whatever "retirement blah blah" is just a gimmick.

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    Problem is... rent out to retirees, after they migrate to heaven in the unit, people still dare to rent?

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    its all in the mind.. perhaps if WCL market as non retirement resort, we will probably see 500 checks . Retirement no retirement, condo is still a condo. The only difference is the tenant class probably a larger group are elderly pple (after receeing the pple who visit the showrm) or some who aspires to live in condo and in upper bukit timah district can use this as a jump pad. There are also some old condos in SG here also have a significant larger groups of older gen pple.

    We will probably see how the market adapts to the 60yr LH story although this is not new in other countries and I'm sure kenobi-wan is watching this closely... there is a slight chance to have more 60yr LH in future if the market can accept shorter tenure in exchange for lower quantum in order make condos more affordable. I see this as a gd option to deleverage and cash out on your larger quantum unit for retirees and hoot a larger 2rm.

    Investment wise still remains to be seem due to the fear of quick depreciation but I personally see there is still some potential upside given the low overall quantum having seen MM Alexis FH 400k to 800k, 99LH parc rosewood from 400k to 610K. This one at 390k for a MM with a nearby 441sqft FH MM selling at 7XXk. Worse case just collect rental.. the quantum is low enuff to remain competitive to rent a gd 1.3-1.5k/pm.
    Based on av of 1k for masterroom, I rather pay a few hundred bucks more to have my own private MM condo: http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/singa...itude=&submit=

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    Quote Originally Posted by mummy View Post
    Why do young investors buy? Hoping to lease out to retirees? Will retirees pay high rental for this place? Seems like a place for well heeled retirees....
    Btw how much is a retirement home cost in sg ah? Hearsay also not cheap. I wonder what is the "all-inclusive" package. If total including home loan can match a standard retirement home rate then probably might be attractive enuff as a more artas alternative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mummy View Post
    Why do young investors buy? Hoping to lease out to retirees? Will retirees pay high rental for this place? Seems like a place for well heeled retirees....
    can they also rent to working class, say the 2 bedders, or does the project have a written rule only retirees qualify to live in it?

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    one thing for sure the ads for this project cannot use chiobu in bikini at the pool ...

    need for images of of ah ma doing taichi and ah gong playing chess ... lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    400 idiots! What can we say?
    idiots? I dont think so.

    Better grab first before government change their policy and impose restriction.
    "Never argue with an idiot, or he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."

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    teddybear is offline Global recession is coming....
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    Do you sincerely think that we are so stupid to to believe that an idiot will call himself and his gang idiot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo33 View Post
    idiots? I dont think so.

    Better grab first before government change their policy and impose restriction.
    Originally Posted by teddybear View Post
    400 idiots! What can we say?

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    i dont understand what is meant by concierge services?

    let says a condo currently have no concierge services, can the owners passed a motion to have concierge services in the condo, they are willing to pay more?

    similarly, can the owners of Hillford passed a motion to remove the concierge services to reduce their maintenance fee?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful View Post
    i dont understand what is meant by concierge services?

    let says a condo currently have no concierge services, can the owners passed a motion to have concierge services in the condo, they are willing to pay more?

    similarly, can the owners of Hillford passed a motion to remove the concierge services to reduce their maintenance fee?
    Of course they can pass the motion after MCST. Just that the counter area will be wasted. Anyway, this concierge service is probably the only 'elderly' facility that differentiates this project from other projects. All other facilities are basically common facilities in other condos too. From what I understand, concierge service is a 24 hour service that renders assistance to anybody (assumed old folks staying alone) to get ambulance, doctors or to help with luggage, etc.

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    rent to elderly...if they default rent, can u drive them out? will they come out w sob stories? will u be deemed cruel to drive them out from ur house?

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    Saw an article in today's Sunday Times :



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    The reporter for the above article is Radha Basu.
    By any chance related to our forummer bro radha08 ?

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    a retirement resort with no age limit/criteria
    might as well just said it's a test bed development for 60 years LH mickey mouse / shoebox project

    the two R&R ... Retirement (simi retirement strategy) & Resort (simi resort bells and whistles)

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    fully sold?

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    Well dont like it? dont buy lor... no 1 force to buy at gun point. if there are no demand the developer will change. as long someone see value then developers will build. thats the real target of the developers.

    Can call it retirement village, call it LH66 village , can all it low quantum village wat ever. whos cares?
    “Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
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    OUT WITH THE SHIT TRASH

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    Quote Originally Posted by ysyap View Post
    Of course they can pass the motion after MCST. Just that the counter area will be wasted. Anyway, this concierge service is probably the only 'elderly' facility that differentiates this project from other projects. All other facilities are basically common facilities in other condos too. From what I understand, concierge service is a 24 hour service that renders assistance to anybody (assumed old folks staying alone) to get ambulance, doctors or to help with luggage, etc.
    24 hour concierge service, like hotel or like 7-eleven? That means mtce fees will be high too. If target at the elderly tenants, I think the demand won't be high. Will the retiree without income willing to rent a few thousand dollar condo just to enjoy the so-called "elderly facility", unless their children are willing to pay for them.

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    Let The ILLUMINATED tells you what is going on.

    First for the cash loaded retired in Bukit Timah area, buying this retirement village is just like buying a car, or even cheaper than the cars they bought. If you do not understand what I mean, just drive to Bukit Timah and see the number of old high cost maintenance bungalows there ( at least S$6000 a month to maintain: utilites = S$1200 gardening= S$500 swimming pool= S$800 maids= S$3000 repairs minor =S$1000 ) . The retirement village provided an avenue for them to unload their bungalows and convert into cash for reinvestment. In this case, there will be no loan.

    When enough converted, they will free up the land banks in that area for condos.


    Secondly, for the youngsters, they buy to rent out. The rental returns from this 60 years leasehold far exceeded the 30 years leasehold commercial if you compare square foot for square foot and year for year and of course location for location.

    And even with loans; the much longer tenure still effectively iron out the costs of borrowing for young people.

    Now you get it? Dun cheong hor after hearing what I said. It is still better to follow me and cheong Handy Road CCR studios INSTEAD.

    Sometimes, I am really amazed at what the so called property experts can say about this project or their analysis. No wonder work so many years liao they STILL cannot be a billionaire like me. SIGH...

    Good Luck.

    玄天神龙古人
    UNCLE BLACKJACK21TRADER
    ( Read my nick carefully again )
    Last edited by blackjack21trader; 13-01-14 at 07:42.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dleedoner View Post
    fully sold?
    Don't know yet.

    12/01/2014: Last day for showflat viewing & expression of interest before balloting/booking day on 17/01/2013.

    http://thehillford.sg/

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackjack21trader View Post
    Let The ILLUMINATED tells you what is going on.
    .........
    Now you get it? Dun cheong hor after hearing what I said. It is still better to follow me and cheong Handy Road CCR studios INSTEAD.

    Sometimes, I am really amazed at what the so called property experts can say about this project or their analysis. No wonder work so many years liao they STILL cannot be a billionaire like me. SIGH...

    Good Luck.

    玄天神龙古人
    UNCLE BLACKJACK21TRADER
    ( Read my nick carefully again )
    Why better to follow uncle and cheong Handy Road CCR studios? Because later uncle got many stories to tell to PERK UP THIS LOCATION ( Remember Robertson Quay and West Coast? ).

    Just be patience.
    Last edited by blackjack21trader; 13-01-14 at 07:50.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackjack21trader View Post
    Let The ILLUMINATED tells you what is going on.
    ...........
    Sometimes, I am really amazed at what the so called property experts can say about this project or their analysis. No wonder work so many years liao they STILL cannot be a billionaire like me. SIGH...

    Good Luck.

    玄天神龙古人
    UNCLE BLACKJACK21TRADER
    ( Read my nick carefully again )
    "And of course if 60 years leasehold can cheong, 99 years will rise, 999 years will fly and FREEHOLD WILL ROCKET."- wise words by Very Handsome Uncle Blackjack21Trader.

    60 years leasehold provided a support level for the rest of the property segments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackjack21trader View Post
    Why better to follow uncle and cheong Handy Road CCR studios? Because later uncle got many stories to tell to PERK UP THIS LOCATION ( Remember Robertson Quay and West Coast? ).

    Just be patience.
    paiseh, in Chinese Cantonese it should be termed not "perk up" but "fry up".

    Good Luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackjack21trader View Post
    60 years leasehold provided a support level for the rest of the property segments.
    oh, I tink differently fm uncle.
    if 60lh cheong, will benefit 99lh, no favourable impact to fh wor ...

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    No question about rental return. How about the potential upside in rental and capital appreciation in an area full of larger FH units during downturn?
    Quote Originally Posted by blackjack21trader View Post
    Let The ILLUMINATED tells you what is going on.

    First for the cash loaded retired in Bukit Timah area, buying this retirement village is just like buying a car, or even cheaper than the cars they bought. If you do not understand what I mean, just drive to Bukit Timah and see the number of old high cost maintenance bungalows there ( at least S$6000 a month to maintain: utilites = S$1200 gardening= S$500 swimming pool= S$800 maids= S$3000 repairs minor =S$1000 ) . The retirement village provided an avenue for them to unload their bungalows and convert into cash for reinvestment. In this case, there will be no loan.

    When enough converted, they will free up the land banks in that area for condos.


    Secondly, for the youngsters, they buy to rent out. The rental returns from this 60 years leasehold far exceeded the 30 years leasehold commercial if you compare square foot for square foot and year for year and of course location for location.

    And even with loans; the much longer tenure still effectively iron out the costs of borrowing for young people.

    Now you get it? Dun cheong hor after hearing what I said. It is still better to follow me and cheong Handy Road CCR studios INSTEAD.

    Sometimes, I am really amazed at what the so called property experts can say about this project or their analysis. No wonder work so many years liao they STILL cannot be a billionaire like me. SIGH...

    Good Luck.

    玄天神龙古人
    UNCLE BLACKJACK21TRADER ( Read my nick carefully again )

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    Quote Originally Posted by DC33_2008 View Post
    No question about rental return. How about the potential upside in rental and capital appreciation in an area full of larger FH units during downturn?
    Master BJ's agenda is quite clear- "frying up" the properties, especially those at Handy road. Of course, he is kind to not mind giving some spillover effect to other areas.

    You still ask him?

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