Martin Place Residences (D9, Freehold, Frasers Centrepoint)

[devilplate]

During tough times, if CCR good location landlords willing to lower rental, I'm sure demand will still be there

Nid to compare in terms of yield? U willing to lower down to wat kind of yield since ccr now only 3%

[Condo Kaiser]

Nid to compare in terms of yield? U willing to lower down to wat kind of yield since ccr now only 3%

It's dog eat dog world... If economy not doing well, CCR lower to 2% yield... What will happen to OCR yield?

Assuming survivor of the fittest, CCR properties are definitely the strongest... We have to ignore the strength of the owner. Equally likely that owner of properties all over the island to be over committed.

Martin place studios probably can rent for 4k at least at this market. 1 year later.. assume economy still very weak.. can only command 2k... owner still can still hold on to it.. every month top up little bit...

but for OCR studios... now can rent 3k.... if economy still in shits.. how many people able to rent it out for 1.5k next time if robertson area only renting for 2k....

it's all about relative value... not just abt yield...

[DC33_2008]

Older CCR which is fully paid up and bought many years ago will still enjoy good yield even lower rental. It is the new CCRs that will suffer. It also boils down to owners' pocket.

It's dog eat dog world... If economy not doing well, CCR lower to 2% yield... What will happen to OCR yield?

Assuming survivor of the fittest, CCR properties are definitely the strongest... We have to ignore the strength of the owner. Equally likely that owner of properties all over the island to be over committed.

Martin place studios probably can rent for 4k at least at this market. 1 year later.. assume economy still very weak.. can only command 2k... owner still can still hold on to it.. every month top up little bit...

but for OCR studios... now can rent 3k.... if economy still in shits.. how many people able to rent it out for 1.5k next time if robertson area only renting for 2k....

it's all about relative value... not just abt yield...

[Jonathan0503]

Nid to compare in terms of yield? U willing to lower down to wat kind of yield since ccr now only 3%

Yes, holding power is also important. Size and quantum of property also play a part.

[devilplate]

It's dog eat dog world... If economy not doing well, CCR lower to 2% yield... What will happen to OCR yield?

Assuming survivor of the fittest, CCR properties are definitely the strongest... We have to ignore the strength of the owner. Equally likely that owner of properties all over the island to be over committed.

Martin place studios probably can rent for 4k at least at this market. 1 year later.. assume economy still very weak.. can only command 2k... owner still can still hold on to it.. every month top up little bit...

but for OCR studios... now can rent 3k.... if economy still in shits.. how many people able to rent it out for 1.5k next time if robertson area only renting for 2k....

it's all about relative value... not just abt yield...

Its about yield la no matter how u argue.....rental and quantum comes tgt....so only make sense to tok abt yield

A 550k ocr 1bdr nid to fetch how much to get 3% yield?

Tink about it

[rattydrama]

Dear brother, it is not a matter of MRT or not. In 2000, one old 1200sqft apartment here at $700K can be exchanged for a good condition 2000sqft terrace house in good location in D15.

Today in 2011, the asking price of a lousy landed in the outer fringe of D15 is asking S$1200psf to S$1700psf : example here : http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listi...errace-telok-k

Tell me, should MARTIN PLACE and ALL condos here CHIONG to S$3000psf come 2012 OR NOT ?

will have more martin's brothers and sisters and less landed coming 2012-14.

[Wild Falcon]

OCR yields have always exceeded CCR yields.

Rental yields = (rental-maintenance)/Capital Value

OCR yields is approx 3.5 - 5%. CCR yields has been hovering between 2.5% thereabouts. Even if CCR yields drop to 1%, OCR yields would still be higher than that.

Remember, u must look at how much you invest, i.e. your capital vs your returns. Surely if I put in $2 million, I would expect greater absolute returns that had I only invested $500k? Or better still, if I could split the $500k over 4 properties OCR which will clearly give better yields?

Of course rental yields is not everything. But in a market where capital values is very near the peak (except for areas with new developments or new transport links which might still hv capital upside), its about time people look at real fundamentals and sustainable cash flows and not depend on speculative demand from foreigners.

It's dog eat dog world... If economy not doing well, CCR lower to 2% yield... What will happen to OCR yield?

Assuming survivor of the fittest, CCR properties are definitely the strongest... We have to ignore the strength of the owner. Equally likely that owner of properties all over the island to be over committed.

Martin place studios probably can rent for 4k at least at this market. 1 year later.. assume economy still very weak.. can only command 2k... owner still can still hold on to it.. every month top up little bit...

but for OCR studios... now can rent 3k.... if economy still in shits.. how many people able to rent it out for 1.5k next time if robertson area only renting for 2k....

it's all about relative value... not just abt yield...

[lifeline]

OCR yields have always exceeded CCR yields.

Rental yields = (rental-maintenance)/Capital Value

OCR yields is approx 3.5 - 5%. CCR yields has been hovering between 2.5% thereabouts. Even if CCR yields drop to 1%, OCR yields would still be higher than that.

Remember, u must look at how much you invest, i.e. your capital vs your returns. Surely if I put in $2 million, I would expect greater absolute returns that had I only invested $500k? Or better still, if I could split the $500k over 4 properties OCR which will clearly give better yields?

Of course rental yields is not everything. But in a market where capital values is very near the peak (except for areas with new developments or new transport links which might still hv capital upside), its about time people look at real fundamentals and sustainable cash flows and not depend on speculative demand from foreigners.

also depends on how you calculate the yields based on the property purchase price then, or transacted price now.

for my friend's in this project, his yield based on :
a. purchase price then = 3.9%
b. cash-on-cash returns = 13.0% (excl interest, etc) cos LTV 70% then
c. latest transacted price = 3.4%

is this considered good?

[devilplate]

also depends on how you calculate the yields based on the property purchase price then, or transacted price now.

for my friend's in this project, his yield based on :
a. purchase price then = 3.9%
b. cash-on-cash returns = 13.0% (excl interest, etc) cos LTV 70% then
c. latest transacted price = 3.4%

is this considered good?

if its CCR, FH and non-MM, den consider so-so....

if its MM, den its no-no

[lifeline]

if its CCR, FH and non-MM, den consider so-so....

if its MM, den its no-no

wah devilplate, so free like me...
anyway my friend is satisfied.
thanks

[amk]

OCR yields have always exceeded CCR yields.

yield cannot be considered only by itself in isolation.

in Asian context, the main wealth generated from property are from capital appreciation, not from yield !

GCBs had one of the poorest yields here. But ppl made the most out of it.

Also, comparing the yield of a 500k pty against a 5M pty is simply not equitable. One does not invest in 10 500k OCRs if he wants to invest 5M in pty.

You can continue singing OCR yield is better and such. Sure it is. But when your size gets bigger, you will start to realize you have other factors to consider. Yield is just one factor, not the only factor

[devilplate]

yield cannot be considered only by itself in isolation.

in Asian context, the main wealth generated from property are from capital appreciation, not from yield !

GCBs had one of the poorest yields here. But ppl made the most out of it.

Also, comparing the yield of a 500k pty against a 5M pty is simply not equitable. One does not invest in 10 500k OCRs if he wants to invest 5M in pty.

You can continue singing OCR yield is better and such. Sure it is. But when your size gets bigger, you will start to realize you have other factors to consider. Yield is just one factor, not the only factor

Out of point oredi.....refer to original discussion

[hopeful]

Out of point oredi.....refer to original discussion

confused, what is the original discussion again??

[flxcat]

I didnt think much about the fittings, but if compared to my current place at the sail, my layman's feel like that its far better. just commissioned a design firm

and no i am not a gal!

Nice pics u have.
After looking at the pics, can't help to find resemble with Soleil. But of course better location, FH, miele vs taka for the appliances.
Nice nice

[teddybear]

Wah back to same old topic and grandma story all over again? Didn't I mention before that there was once that RCR Hillview area rental can get S$1200 pm for a 3 Bedders already laughing because many other got nobody to rent? Low yield is better than ZERO yield (or negative yield because rent out lose more money after deducting taxes & maintenance)! When rental is the same, for sure CCR got fill up first, then RCR, then OCR. Ops! Landlords buying OCR looking for rental sure faint if RCR already no takers!
Many are just too young to know what had happened before. Many acting "heros" or singing "this time will be different" will ultimately find that there is no different, just like Wall Street and stock market has been the same for past >100 years. Same thing will repeat again again, except over longer or shorter duration but many will soon commit the same mistake all over again and lose their trousers chasing after that hot "fades" & cheap stocks (cheap bcause they are cheap in absolute price)!. Look at that Netflix! Ops! 1 day drops >35% !!! Mind you, it is a S&P500 stock with a market cap of >US$6b even after dropping 35% !!!

OCR yields have always exceeded CCR yields.

Rental yields = (rental-maintenance)/Capital Value

OCR yields is approx 3.5 - 5%. CCR yields has been hovering between 2.5% thereabouts. Even if CCR yields drop to 1%, OCR yields would still be higher than that.

Remember, u must look at how much you invest, i.e. your capital vs your returns. Surely if I put in $2 million, I would expect greater absolute returns that had I only invested $500k? Or better still, if I could split the $500k over 4 properties OCR which will clearly give better yields?

Of course rental yields is not everything. But in a market where capital values is very near the peak (except for areas with new developments or new transport links which might still hv capital upside), its about time people look at real fundamentals and sustainable cash flows and not depend on speculative demand from foreigners.

[devilplate]

Wah back to same old topic and grandma story all over again? Didn't I mention before that there was once that RCR Hillview area rental can get S$1200 pm for a 3 Bedders already laughing because many other got nobody to rent? Low yield is better than ZERO yield (or negative yield because rent out lose more money after deducting taxes & maintenance)! When rental is the same, for sure CCR got fill up first, then RCR, then OCR. Ops! Landlords buying OCR looking for rental sure faint if RCR already no takers!
Many are just too young to know what had happened before. Many acting "heros" or singing "this time will be different" will ultimately find that there is no difficult, just like Wall Street and stock market has been the same for past >100 years. Same thing will repeat again again, except over longer or shorter duration but many will soon commit the same mistake all over again and lose their trousers chasing after that hot "fades". Look at that Netflix! Ops! 1 day drops >35% !!!

East side ocr rental always there....those near to changiz biz park

During worse time 2003-2005, 2bdr there still can fetch 1.5k

[DaytonaSS]

Visited this new development today. Many agent on the lobby area. I must say this is a quality development. Visited a 10th floor unit. Nice layout, great facing also.

Good Choice master 3rd eye BJ21T

[Wild Falcon]

You are completely out of point. Nobody says yield is the only consideration.

But in an increasing mature market where capital upside is limited, yields become increasingly important.

And also many of us here are investors - so we look at yields and potential capital upside and we diversify. I believe a few of you here are still looking at primary residence - as can be seen by the need to near good schools and make wife and children happy and be seen as "prestigious" location. Some of us are investors which I hv tried to explain many times.

Nobody is denying weath is created from capital values in the past. But we are talking about the future. Do you think at today's entry price, so much value can be created from capital values?

yield cannot be considered only by itself in isolation.

in Asian context, the main wealth generated from property are from capital appreciation, not from yield !

GCBs had one of the poorest yields here. But ppl made the most out of it.

Also, comparing the yield of a 500k pty against a 5M pty is simply not equitable. One does not invest in 10 500k OCRs if he wants to invest 5M in pty.

You can continue singing OCR yield is better and such. Sure it is. But when your size gets bigger, you will start to realize you have other factors to consider. Yield is just one factor, not the only factor

[amk]

You are the one that's completely wrong.

When ppl are buying primarily for residence, and hence prefer CCR and close to town and school, for both capital preservation and convenience, you blast them with " what's big deal about near town and good school" etc.

When ppl are buying primarily for investment, and also prefer CCR for long term capital appreciation even though the yield might be lower at times, but is a quality asset which has a floor at down market, you blast them again with " OCR yields better" and "you are only buying for primary residence".

Do you know your second argument already indirectly rebuts your first argument ?

You do not want to admit, but it's clear your only criteria in pty investment is yield. So if you have 5m equity, you will do 10 OCRs is that correct ?

In my last post I tried to be polite and just implied that most ppl here do not have the capacity to play with 5m, so it's impossible to engage in a meaningful discussion on investment in CCR. You went further and start labeling ppl investing in CCR as "primary residences only" ? You are incredibly narrow minded. There are quite a few ppl here with multiple investments in both CCR , RCR and quality OCRs (like D15 trying to profit from all the NRIs) etc.

[devilplate]

Most part of d15 is rcr

Yield vy impt to me so as capital appreciation

Yield must b above 4% and got gd capital appreciation den BUY

[DC33_2008]

Have used rental yield to pay up substantial amount of the property loan to redeem title deeds in the past. Now, rental yield is much lower. Capital appreciation is the main return of investment. Rental yield is to help to service loan but not so much for capital repayment.

[amk]

Yield must b above 4% and got gd capital appreciation den BUY

Yea sure , every one will come and buy, case closed

The fact is, you can only observe the yield at time of entry, you cannot observe capital appreciation. You can only guess. This is the most difficult aspect when picking ur investment pty. It's so easy to be blinded by the fantastic yield at market up time (like now), while ignoring the fundamentals, which will come into picture when market is down. And continue singing th high yield song. Best example is HDB. Thanks to policy mismanagement of the past, HDB rental yield is very high now. But this does not make it a long term appreciating asset to be kept. All these 700k or 800k HDBs have very little upside going forward.

In pty investment, capital gain is the key.

[devilplate]

Yea sure , every one will come and buy, case closed

The fact is, you can only observe the yield at time of entry, you cannot observe capital appreciation. You can only guess. This is the most difficult aspect when picking ur investment pty. It's so easy to be blinded by the fantastic yield at market up time (like now), while ignoring the fundamentals, which will come into picture when market is down. And continue singing th high yield song. Best example is HDB. Thanks to policy mismanagement of the past, HDB rental yield is very high now. But this does not make it a long term appreciating asset to be kept. All these 700k or 800k HDBs have very little upside going forward.

In pty investment, capital gain is the key.

Shdnt bring hdb into the pic

Anyway if yield is low...it can also means the px is overvalued.....

So die die must b above 4% yield and den tok abt potential cap gain

Can tell me plenty of stories blah blah but current yield only 3%, no tks

[sh]

Shdnt bring hdb into the pic

Anyway if yield is low...it can also means the px is overvalued.....

So die die must b above 4% yield and den tok abt potential cap gain

Can tell me plenty of stories blah blah but current yield only 3%, no tks

I agree. Yield is my 1st test of whether a property is overpriced....

but I have additional requirement of it being FH.

LH running out of time will give excellent yield.

Yield is here and now.... capital appreciation is faraway.

[dtrax]

Yup, yield is the first test.

Sample property question:

Which properties are overpriced?



Ans: everything all overpriced

[sh]

agreed... it's getting harder to find

[newbie11]

I still like icon and city lights. In fact icon recently sold at 1350psf for
2nd flr

[devilplate]

I still like icon and city lights. In fact icon recently sold at 1350psf for
2nd flr

WAH!!! serious??!?!?!

which size is tat?? how come i din noe about it?!?! i will gladly pay 1400psf if its a 1bdr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

recent tx a low flr 2bdr at 1371psf(who is tat lucky fellow)

[dtrax]

#02 -17 - 84sqm

[devilplate]

#02 -17 - 84sqm

how u guys know when its not even caveated

anyway the market so bad ar....1350psf for 2nd flr 2bdr is like recession firesale

i tink basic is correct!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!