Junior
Originally Posted by teddybear
Punggol Waterfront also backed by govt isn't it?
Yes it was backed by the government
But why it has not progress as planned you have to ask the relevant authority cos I do not have the answer
As for JLD, you can see the progress and development being made
If you care to be objective
do some research and you will know what I mean
Newbie
Frankly, I don't understand what's the debate about ... hah.
I agree with Teddy that you need growth story to minimize resistance and move the price. As mentioned by him, it is well known that smart money will flow in, churn, and then flow out to elsewhere.
I agree with Simi that defensive 'quality' projects will be harder to beat down.
If the strategy works for you and you feel comfortable with it, it's a good strategy. Don't really need to be affected by other's perspective ie friends, relatives, media etc etc.
But having an open mind will let you see and learn more.
Junior
Hi PC08Frankly, I don't understand what's the debate about ... hah.
I agree with Teddy that you need growth story to minimize resistance and move the price. As mentioned by him, it is well known that smart money will flow in, churn, and then flow out to elsewhere.
I agree with Simi that defensive 'quality' projects will be harder to beat down.
If the strategy works for you and you feel comfortable with it, it's a good strategy. Don't really need to be affected by other's perspective ie friends, relatives, media etc etc.
But having an open mind will let you see and learn more.
The case in point is JLD whether her potential had been factored in
with the recent sell out of J Gateway
There are 2 ways of looking at it
1st Point : The recent debate in the other thread was that it had been sold well ahead of its curve at 15xxpsf to 17xxpsf therefore all the growth stories had been priced in. (Growth Potential)
2nd Point : Yes, I do agreed to certain extend on that(1st Pt) but what I saw will be the Impact when these projects are completed. Having the potential is one thing and the Impact is going to bring after that is another because then the value will definitely be higher than the 1st Pt.
With the Government plan to transform JLD and J Gateway into the 2nd biggest Commercial District outside of CBD is a great potential.
If this is realised then this potential will alleviate the area onto the next level.
So far can see all these happening slowly and surely according to Government Masterplan. (2nd Pt)
CFheers
Senior
CCR property is over price, thats why prices are coming down and rental yield sucks. unfortunately, there is nothing much in CCR.Stocks like Bluemont, Asiaons etc, at one time even rise to multi-billions $ market cap, but still penny stock! Penny stocks or not has to do with quality vs price and not just price alone! People who don't understand this principle will never make BIG money!
Talk of high dividends and growth stories, at one time the S-Chips has the best growth stories of >20% per year, and some give dividends up to the tune of >8% yield per year! So, this means they are not penny stocks? Fact is, they can't stand up to scrutiny, and many of these had bit the dusts, and some more may go the same way in next few years!
For a stocks to rise, there is no such thing as premium, or branded, it all boils down to market potential and their growth stories.
If you want to compare property to stocks, then I will tell you that Singapore as country is Bluechip, so please dont waste time trying to talk about s-chip penny stocks etc.
Last edited by Ringo33; 07-11-13 at 05:29.
"Never argue with an idiot, or he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."
Junior
Yes yes, that is the point it doesn't really matter which and what properties you are buying as long as they make money FULL STOP. There is no such thing as buy CCR will sure make money and buy OCR will sure lose money. Cheers!Ok, in this case, according to your definition, I am "kam gong" but doesn't matter as long as I had made good money. My feeling is people who are "kam gong" to you made much more money than you do based on your standard... I am super long-term once I lock-in...
Newbie
Bro, if i am u, I will take next 2 yrs to save up more and then once yr 1st kid got into a primary school, buy a property that is right next to the school. The time saved from fetching them everyday will be worth it. Then u can rent out yr Jurong place for rental income. No point over stretch yrself now and then make yr life more stressful. Dun think with jus a savings of $100k and 450k debt and 2 kids is a comfortable place to be in when ressession hits. Unless both of u r working as civil servants which is pretty recession proof. Jus my thoughts.
Global recession is coming....
Yap, you are right, at least we know there is ZERO heavy industry plant in CCR! What is roses to you is poison to us!
You might as well say in Singapore, everyone is a millionaire and there is no poor people around just like there is no penny stocks!
Senior
57% of PM2.5 pollution in Singapore comes from road transport and this include cars, taxi, bus, motorcycle truck etc. And we all know the traffic condition around CCR area are busiest, 7 days a week, even Saturday, LTA need to implement ERP to contain traffic congestion.Yap, you are right, at least we know there is ZERO heavy industry plant in CCR! What is roses to you is poison to us!
You might as well say in Singapore, everyone is a millionaire and there is no poor people around just like there is no penny stocks!
So you tell me, are you not afraid?
"Never argue with an idiot, or he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."
Global recession is coming....
How about all those toxic gases coming out of heavy industry plants in Jurong 24 hours a day, 365 days a year? Think that is worse than the PM2.5!
And mind you, that PM2.5 mostly come from heavy vehicles using diesels, most of them passing through Jurong to Jurong Island and Tuas to transport raw materials into the heavy industry plants and end products out! Don't need a PHD to guess which place are the most polluted in Singapore!
Senior
How about those toxic gases coming from shipping liners spread all over Singapore southern coast, I think the distant from the southern coast line to CCR ranges from ZERO to around 15km. So like you said, if you are within say 5km radius, you get hit most. And this include the entire D15. Dont believe? Trust you dont need a PhD to know where are all the shipping vessel located.How about all those toxic gases coming out of heavy industry plants in Jurong 24 hours a day, 365 days a year? Think that is worse than the PM2.5!
And mind you, that PM2.5 mostly come from heavy vehicles using diesels, most of them passing through Jurong to Jurong Island and Tuas to transport raw materials into the heavy industry plants and end products out! Don't need a PHD to guess which place are the most polluted in Singapore!
"Never argue with an idiot, or he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."
Senior
How about all those toxic gases coming out of heavy industry plants in Jurong 24 hours a day, 365 days a year? Think that is worse than the PM2.5!
And mind you, that PM2.5 mostly come from heavy vehicles using diesels, most of them passing through Jurong to Jurong Island and Tuas to transport raw materials into the heavy industry plants and end products out! Don't need a PHD to guess which place are the most polluted in Singapore!
Actually chemical plants and refinery do have their yearly maintenance shut down, so you are wrong to say they run 24 hours 365 days a week. This only goes to show to expose your limited knowledge about the chemical industry
The highest concentration of car emission is actually in CBD. What you eat, drink, wear and buy in CBD, are all delivered from warehouses and cold rooms from all over Singapore into CBD buy trucks, not BMW or Merc
And this exclude the number of diesel taxi, buses and goes in and out of CBD 365 day a week, heavy on saturday and sunday.
"Never argue with an idiot, or he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."
Newbie
According to NEA's probes' data, North has the highest concentration of PM2.5 and West has the lowest concentration of PM2.5. I know there are only abt 11 probes installed in Singapore, so the data may not be well represented.Actually chemical plants and refinery do have their yearly maintenance shut down, so you are wrong to say they run 24 hours 365 days a week. This only goes to show to expose your limited knowledge about the chemical industry
The highest concentration of car emission is actually in CBD. What you eat, drink, wear and buy in CBD, are all delivered from warehouses and cold rooms from all over Singapore into CBD buy trucks, not BMW or Merc
And this exclude the number of diesel taxi, buses and goes in and out of CBD 365 day a week, heavy on saturday and sunday.
Global recession is coming....
Good to hear more information on this PM2.5 sensors because the data do not correlate with real facts, which is that the West is an heavy industry town and it has lowest PM2.5 concentration of all places in Singapore? Probably they place the probes in a dome in the middle of Jurong Lake?
Senior
Good to hear more information on this PM2.5 sensors because the data do not correlate with real facts, which is that the West is an heavy industry town and it has lowest PM2.5 concentration of all places in Singapore? Probably they place the probes in a dome in the middle of Jurong Lake?
Maybe the chimney are so.high that it got blown to other part of Singapore?
So now nea is wrong. Can you do.us a favour. Please write to them.
"Never argue with an idiot, or he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."
Junior
Good to hear more information on this PM2.5 sensors because the data do not correlate with real facts, which is that the West is an heavy industry town and it has lowest PM2.5 concentration of all places in Singapore? Probably they place the probes in a dome in the middle of Jurong Lake?
Hi Teddy
like your good sense of humour
Junior
wah, pollution talk is polluting the rest of the threads.Good to hear more information on this PM2.5 sensors because the data do not correlate with real facts, which is that the West is an heavy industry town and it has lowest PM2.5 concentration of all places in Singapore? Probably they place the probes in a dome in the middle of Jurong Lake?
teddy, u said it yourself, west is heavy industry town. heavy industries produce heavy particles, whereas light industries produce light particles.
hence it is not strange that West has lower PM 2.5, because these are the lightest particulates.
now it is not strange if the west has higher PM10, because these are heavier particles, caused by heavy industries.
Newbie
Hah!Good to hear more information on this PM2.5 sensors because the data do not correlate with real facts, which is that the West is an heavy industry town and it has lowest PM2.5 concentration of all places in Singapore? Probably they place the probes in a dome in the middle of Jurong Lake?
The western probe should be at NTU.
Anyway, try not to mix up PM2.5, SOX, NOX and VOCs. They are different .. I reckon there could be higher SOX, NOX and VOCs in the west.
Newbie
The stacks are high and depending on the wind direction, you could be at the receiving end of the pollution! Imagine, the pollutants exit the stack or what you termed chimney, and follows a Gaussian distribution path, and carried to your home by the monsoon wind!Maybe the chimney are so.high that it got blown to other part of Singapore?
So now nea is wrong. Can you do.us a favour. Please write to them.
Senior
perhaps all the talk of trying to differentiate air quality within singapore island is just a waste of time because in the east, there have shipping liners along the coast line. airport in at Changi, and refinery at Pasir Gudang.
"Never argue with an idiot, or he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."
Newbie
Yes, it is. It's too small to have significant concentration difference. But if you are physically in one of the chemical plants, you should be able to smell the VOCs. Let's stop at that, its not really meaningful to compare pollution concentration within a tiny island.
Junior
http://aqicn.org/city/singapore/central/
All the info u need
Global recession is coming....
The data is a joke, because it just doesn't correlate with the ground facts.
Now, after knowing that there are only 11 sensors all over Singapore, it is obvious that the data is very dependent on the exact location of the sensors. We can see that the West sensors seem to be placed in some North-West area in the "Western Water Catchment" area in Lim Chu Kang! Is that location representative of the West area & Jurong? So far, I believe only the deads are living there! Few people and vehicles go there!
Even then, the data can't explain how the "Central" sensors, which seem to be marked as located in the middle of "Upper Pierce Reservoir", has higher PM2.5, PM10, NO2, SO2 then the "West"! Anybody and any vehicle can swim and live in the middle of "Upper Pierce Reservoir" to produce higher pollution than the West?!
When things don't tally with the real facts on the ground, we know there is something wrong!
Last edited by teddybear; 07-11-13 at 23:13.
Junior
Junior
YalorThe data is a joke, because it just doesn't correlate with the ground facts.
Now, after knowing that there are only 11 sensors all over Singapore, it is obvious that the data is very dependent on the exact location of the sensors. We can see that the West sensors seem to be placed in some North-West area in the "Western Water Catchment" area in Lim Chu Kang! Is that location representative of the West area & Jurong? So far, I believe only the deads are living there! Few people and vehicles go there!
Even then, the data can't explain how the "Central" sensors, which seem to be marked as located in the middle of "Upper Pierce Reservoir", has higher PM2.5, PM10, NO2, SO2 then the "West"! Anybody and any vehicle can swim and live in the middle of "Upper Pierce Reservoir" to produce higher pollution than the West?!
When things don't tally with the real facts on the ground, we know there is something wrong!
the guy who did the research probably had bought some units at J Gateway
Bias and so ambiguous
Junior
Good job to giving us all the factual links : )
Junior
anything that don't tally with your thinking is wrong! Ha ha ha ha ha ha haThe data is a joke, because it just doesn't correlate with the ground facts.
Now, after knowing that there are only 11 sensors all over Singapore, it is obvious that the data is very dependent on the exact location of the sensors. We can see that the West sensors seem to be placed in some North-West area in the "Western Water Catchment" area in Lim Chu Kang! Is that location representative of the West area & Jurong? So far, I believe only the deads are living there! Few people and vehicles go there!
Even then, the data can't explain how the "Central" sensors, which seem to be marked as located in the middle of "Upper Pierce Reservoir", has higher PM2.5, PM10, NO2, SO2 then the "West"! Anybody and any vehicle can swim and live in the middle of "Upper Pierce Reservoir" to produce higher pollution than the West?!
When things don't tally with the real facts on the ground, we know there is something wrong!
Newbie
By the way, these data are meant as a guide for NEA, not meant to let you compare pollution levels among different regions. You all are barking up the wrong tree. Those who want to make us believe that the West has best quality air by pointing us to such data are just nuts!
You all need to consider these data in the right context & don't use blindly. NEA should just include fineprint / caveats!
The data is a joke, because it just doesn't correlate with the ground facts.
Now, after knowing that there are only 11 sensors all over Singapore, it is obvious that the data is very dependent on the exact location of the sensors. We can see that the West sensors seem to be placed in some North-West area in the "Western Water Catchment" area in Lim Chu Kang! Is that location representative of the West area & Jurong? So far, I believe only the deads are living there! Few people and vehicles go there!
Even then, the data can't explain how the "Central" sensors, which seem to be marked as located in the middle of "Upper Pierce Reservoir", has higher PM2.5, PM10, NO2, SO2 then the "West"! Anybody and any vehicle can swim and live in the middle of "Upper Pierce Reservoir" to produce higher pollution than the West?!
When things don't tally with the real facts on the ground, we know there is something wrong!
Junior
Junior
Ultimate Underdog
I think it's quite clear that West has generally higher level of pollutants (in 2011) based on the NEA website link from Chestnut. But the difference will not be as significant as the levels in certain countries described as cancer-causing. It should still be within very safe ranges as the human body has the capacity to deal with a certain level of pollution.
PM2.5 levels could also possibly be lower in the West. It all depends on how the survey is done, what industries or activities produce them, wind directions, seasonal changes etc etc...
It is pointless arguing over specific locations and projects. Rental demand and prices are determined by a multitude of factors. For each his own. Each believe in his or her own area (even abroad) will do. No point condemning others for their choices.
The three laws of Kelonguni:
Where there is kelong, there is guni.
No kelong no guni.
More kelong = more guni.
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