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Thread: A less than perfect new home- article in the Sunday Times 29 September 2013

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    Default A less than perfect new home- article in the Sunday Times 29 September 2013

    Saw this article in today's Sunday Times and found it useful.






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    The last one too small to read, so I post again :




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    Thanks for the news. So if he developer didn't complete painting the external walls of the building and yet still issue TOP, can we sue them. I have checked with them, they said they were unable to paint the walls for certain reason, so have to leave it as it is. The building look awful without the paint.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lav123 View Post
    Thanks for the news. So if he developer didn't complete painting the external walls of the building and yet still issue TOP, can we sue them. I have checked with them, they said they were unable to paint the walls for certain reason, so have to leave it as it is. The building look awful without the paint.
    Which project is this? The developer will ultimately paint the walls, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lav123 View Post
    Thanks for the news. So if he developer didn't complete painting the external walls of the building and yet still issue TOP, can we sue them. I have checked with them, they said they were unable to paint the walls for certain reason, so have to leave it as it is. The building look awful without the paint.
    you dont sue the developer, u sue govt agency (BCA) for issuing TOP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beebot View Post
    Which project is this? The developer will ultimately paint the walls, right?
    Not very sure, because our building is in between the 2 landed. The person-in-charge said that they can't get the approval from the landed owners to use their pte space to paint our 2 side walls, so they can't do anything, have to leave it as it is.

    Suing need lots of money right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lav123 View Post
    Not very sure, because our building is in between the 2 landed. The person-in-charge said that they can't get the approval from the landed owners to use their pte space to paint our 2 side walls, so they can't do anything, have to leave it as it is.

    Suing need lots of money right?
    The walls, is it concrete, or bricks?
    the constructor need to assemble formwork to pour concrete in, to make the pillars and floor slabs. And if concrete external walls, more formwork needed.

    If brick wall, that means it is only plaster inside. Do u see it plaster outside? If plaster outside, how is it possible they can plaster but cannot paint?
    If only plaster inside, may not be good waterproofing.

    Imo, the developer is conning u. Havent they heard of telescoping pole?

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    The developer has to paint the external by hook or by crook.
    I am sure that there is a way to paint it without needing to use the private space of the landed owners.
    Anyway BCA requires the building to be painted at intervals, so the building definitely has to be painted in future as well.
    Since the permit was issued for the development to be built, there has to be a way to paint it, and at this moment, the onus is on the developer to paint it.

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    how BCA issue TOP if walls not painted?

    anyway, check the S&P agreement. Did it mentioned external walls have to be painted.

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    Default A less than perfect new home

    http://www.straitstimes.com/archive/...-home-20130929

    A less than perfect new home

    When defects show up, fixing them can be a headache – who is liable, and who pays?

    Published on Sep 29, 2013

    By Melissa Tan


    Address the problem as soon as possible

    Fixing defects in private condominiums seems a simple procedure at first glance but it can be a frustrating process that leaves owners feeling like they are banging their heads against a brick wall.

    Tricky issues surface, like mould on a damp wall: Who is to blame, who pays, when do legal safeguards kick in and when do they lapse?

    Recently at The Sail in Marina Bay, an underground water pipe burst and in the past week, three glass panels shattered. The development was completed in 2008.

    At Sentosa, the three-year-old condominium The Coast had reports of flooded staircases and a rotting timber pool deck.

    These are not isolated cases. Previous incidents include a leaking basement carpark at the eight-year-old Emery Point in Tanjong Katong, and cracks in the plaster at the 15-year-old Seasons Park in Yio Chu Kang Road.

    More defects nowadays?

    Defects, which can range from water leaks to electricity problems and termite infestations, can often leave developers, residents and the estate's Management Corporation Strata Title (MCST) at loggerheads over who is liable for the defect.

    This is especially so if it is not immediately obvious whether the problems are caused by poor workmanship, routine wear and tear, neglect or other factors.

    Experts say the growing number of condominium projects built by possibly untrained foreign workers has likely led to more building defects arising. However, the Building and Construction Authority told The Sunday Times that there "doesn't seem to be an increase in the number of complaints" about building defects this year compared with previous years.

    Liabilities and warranties

    Developers are legally responsible for fixing any defects found in individual units and common property for 12 months after the unit is handed over. After that point, its liability expires.

    The Real Estate Developers Association of Singapore (Redas) said developers usually provide warranties for different components of a project. For instance, external painting works usually have a warranty of five years.

    These warranties are usually managed by a project's MCST.

    Regardless of the warranties, defects that show up after 12 months can land in a grey area, said Mr Jimmie Ling, chief executive of the Association of Management Corporations in Singapore.

    "Why should the MCST cover the cost of fixing a defect if it's found to be due to the developer?" he asked, noting that it could take up to five or six years for latent building defects to surface.

    "For some aspects such as kitchen appliances and flooring, under normal usage you should be able to see any defects within one year.

    "But there could be material defects that the naked eye can't see. The MCST can't do much about maintaining embedded pipes, for example."

    Mr Ling also said that the later a defect is found, the harder it usually becomes for residents or MCSTs to get developers to fix it as they claim "fair wear and tear".

    Building experts pointed out that the root cause of a building defect may not be immediately obvious. A water leak, for instance, could be due to an unsuitable building design, shoddy construction or insufficient maintenance.

    "Some designs are imported from Mediterranean countries, for example, and may not be suitable here. They may have short roof eaves and bay windows protruding... which can lead to water seepage problems," said Mr Chin Cheong, managing director of building quality surveyor Building Appraisal.

    Another building surveyor said he has seen water leaks caused by clogged drains, which could have been prevented by regular maintenance.

    "A lot of complaints could have been avoided if the place had been better maintained. MCSTs are reluctant to arrange planned preventive maintenance," added the surveyor, who declined to be named because he is acting for parties involved in a court dispute over building defects.

    In general, the more complicated a project, the higher the chance that something will go awry at some point during the construction, experts said.

    "Developers have little control over the construction process. Construction takes months and there are so many permutations of what could go wrong," Mr Chin said.

    Going to court

    A statute of limitations states that developers cannot be sued 15 years after a building is completed.

    Lawyers said that if there are defects in the unit or common property, homeowners or MCSTs typically have six years to sue developers beginning from the project's completion date.

    WongPartnership lawyer Christopher Chuah said that if homeowners want to sue after the first six years over a "latent defect which could not have been discovered at the date of completion by reasonable inspection", they still have three years from the earliest date that they could have "reasonably" found out about the defect.

    But he pointed out that there is an "overriding" maximum period of 15 years after the completion of the development to sue developers.

    Homeowners who find defects in individual units cannot sue MCSTs as these bodies are responsible only for maintaining and repairing common property.

    Another issue, lawyers said, is that homeowners who bought the unit on resale have no right to sue the developer for breach of contract.

    "As the sale and purchase agreement is concluded between only the developer and the direct purchaser, only the direct purchaser can sue the developer for breach of contract," Mr Chuah said.

    Someone who bought a unit on resale would have to sue under tort for breach of duty instead.

    [email protected]

    Additional reporting by Walter Sim


    WHAT TO DO IF YOU FIND A BUILDING DEFECT

    If a defect is detected within one year of completion:

    Ask the developer to fix it.

    If a defect is found after one year but within six years after completion:

    Check if the defect is covered by warranties provided by the developer.
    Determine whether the defect is due to the developer. This can involve calling in a building expert.
    If it is the developer's fault, ask the firm to fix it.
    If the developer refuses, homeowners may consider suing the developer for breach of contract.
    If the unit was bought on resale, the owner cannot sue for breach of contract but may be able to sue the developer on tort, which is breach of duty of care.

    Suing the developer for breach of contract is seen as an easier option, as suits under tort allow the developer to offer the defence of having hired an independent contractor, for instance.

    If a defect is found between the sixth and 15th year:

    Homeowners may be able to sue the developer within three years after the date that they could have reasonably found out about the defect.
    Building and legal experts may have to be called in to determine what is a reasonable date.

    If a defect is found after 15 years:

    Homeowners can no longer sue developers to fix defects and may have to work with the Management Corporation Strata Title to resolve the problem or fix it themselves.

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    The specification stated:-
    1) Wall (External)
    Common clay bricks and/or reinforced concrete.

    2) Finishes - Walls (Common Areas)
    External Wall - cement and sand plaster with weather shield paint

    I have checked with the lawyer whom handled my unit and asked her why the external walls not painted and yet can still issue TOP. My estimated TOP is supposed to be in Yr 2015. She told me that if I want, she can write to the developer to enquire the unpainted walls but so far I didn't receive any news or cc copy from my lawyer yet, she said I can also check with the developer when collecting the key, but I'm sure he will give me the same answer because he is the one whom I asked previously. I wonder how about the other residents, did they notice it and bring it up also.
    Last edited by Lav123; 30-09-13 at 15:53.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful View Post
    The walls, is it concrete, or bricks?
    the constructor need to assemble formwork to pour concrete in, to make the pillars and floor slabs. And if concrete external walls, more formwork needed.

    If brick wall, that means it is only plaster inside. Do u see it plaster outside? If plaster outside, how is it possible they can plaster but cannot paint?
    If only plaster inside, may not be good waterproofing.

    Imo, the developer is conning u. Havent they heard of telescoping pole?
    Sorry, what is telescoping pole?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lav123 View Post
    The specification stated:-
    1) Wall (External)
    Common clay bricks and/or reinforced concrete.

    2) Finishes - Walls (Common Areas)
    External Wall - cement and sand plaster with weather shield paint
    .....
    you know it is unpainted, is it plastered?
    if you can cement/plaster, means you can paint.

    if only raw brick walls, then your waterproofing may not be good. you only rely on internal paint to keep water away.

    publicise your case.
    1) write letter to REDAS, write letter to ST, write letter to STOMP
    2) write letter to government body BCA, they are the ones responsible for issueing TOP. if they respond to you, put up their letter in your FB page.
    3) take photos of unpainted walls, the S&P agreement, put on your FB page.
    all these no need to engage ur lawyer.

    in this kind of situation, the best situation for developer if buyers place nice & keep quiet. Once in public spotlight, developer will be forced to respond.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful View Post
    you know it is unpainted, is it plastered?
    if you can cement/plaster, means you can paint.

    if only raw brick walls, then your waterproofing may not be good. you only rely on internal paint to keep water away.

    publicise your case.
    1) write letter to REDAS, write letter to ST, write letter to STOMP
    2) write letter to government body BCA, they are the ones responsible for issueing TOP. if they respond to you, put up their letter in your FB page.
    3) take photos of unpainted walls, the S&P agreement, put on your FB page.
    all these no need to engage ur lawyer.

    in this kind of situation, the best situation for developer if buyers place nice & keep quiet. Once in public spotlight, developer will be forced to respond.
    i doubt TOP will be issued if the building has raw bricks exposed to the elements of weather, since structural integrity will be eroded away

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    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful View Post
    you know it is unpainted, is it plastered?
    if you can cement/plaster, means you can paint.

    if only raw brick walls, then your waterproofing may not be good. you only rely on internal paint to keep water away.

    publicise your case.
    1) write letter to REDAS, write letter to ST, write letter to STOMP
    2) write letter to government body BCA, they are the ones responsible for issueing TOP. if they respond to you, put up their letter in your FB page.
    3) take photos of unpainted walls, the S&P agreement, put on your FB page.
    all these no need to engage ur lawyer.

    in this kind of situation, the best situation for developer if buyers place nice & keep quiet. Once in public spotlight, developer will be forced to respond.
    I think it is cement, don't look like raw brick wall.

    If publicise this case, I'm afraid that it might affect my ppty price.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lav123 View Post
    I think it is cement, don't look like raw brick wall.

    If publicise this case, I'm afraid that it might affect my ppty price.
    please........buyers got eyes to see eh. when they stroll around the compound, i'm sure they will spot it unless they are blind

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    Quote Originally Posted by eng81157 View Post
    please........buyers got eyes to see eh. when they stroll around the compound, i'm sure they will spot it unless they are blind
    Ya, only the buyers will know but not the whole Singapore know lor. Otherwise even though those who are not interested will also start spreading the news which will make the situation worst, if possible, solve it internally unless really no choice. Anyway, my unit will not be affected as mine is in the centre but when come to repairing, the fund will be affected lor.

    I just wonder whether do the residents realise that and make noise to the developer about the unpainted walls.
    Last edited by Lav123; 01-10-13 at 16:07.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lav123 View Post
    I think it is cement, don't look like raw brick wall.

    If publicise this case, I'm afraid that it might affect my ppty price.
    if can cement/plaster outside, means can paint already, if not how they cement outside?
    if concrete wall, formworks also take up space. after concrete has set, how to remove formwork from inside, they have to remove formwork from outside.

    you can ask the contact person how they put cement/plaster on the wall?
    also ask how they remove formwork for concrete?

    perhaps they have already painted and the paint used is cement colour?
    quite a lot of houses in my area used grey paint (Aquaproof) for external walls, when their neighbour houses have not been built yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful View Post
    if can cement/plaster outside, means can paint already, if not how they cement outside?
    if concrete wall, formworks also take up space. after concrete has set, how to remove formwork from inside, they have to remove formwork from outside.

    you can ask the contact person how they put cement/plaster on the wall?
    also ask how they remove formwork for concrete?

    perhaps they have already painted and the paint used is cement colour?
    wah piang.....paint cement colour?! obiang!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by eng81157 View Post
    wah piang.....paint cement colour?! obiang!!
    Aquaproof is grey colour le, looks like cement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful View Post
    Aquaproof is grey colour le, looks like cement.
    but doing that on the facade of an entire development is yucks! looks worse than HDB or JTC

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    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful View Post
    if can cement/plaster outside, means can paint already, if not how they cement outside?
    if concrete wall, formworks also take up space. after concrete has set, how to remove formwork from inside, they have to remove formwork from outside.

    you can ask the contact person how they put cement/plaster on the wall?
    also ask how they remove formwork for concrete?

    perhaps they have already painted and the paint used is cement colour?
    quite a lot of houses in my area used grey paint (Aquaproof) for external walls, when their neighbour houses have not been built yet.
    I also hope that's the case but when I checked with the person-in-charge, he said cannot paint already, have to leave it as it is, because can't get the approval from the landed owners I guessed they have the intention to paint initially because the walls have patches of white paint all over the place. But I just wonder since they can cement it, why can't they paint it, funny leh.

    I hope that there will be more and more residents reporting so as to put pressure on the developer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eng81157 View Post
    but doing that on the facade of an entire development is yucks! looks worse than HDB or JTC
    i think the guy means the side walls with the neighbouring landed houses only are "unpainted". the front is still nice and beautiful.

    but strange also, landed like 2-3 storey, his project should be 4-5 storey. how come his co-owners didnt notice the side walls not "painted".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lav123 View Post
    I also hope that's the case but when I checked with the person-in-charge, he said cannot paint already, have to leave it as it is, because can't get the approval from the landed owners I guessed they have the intention to paint initially because the walls have patches of white paint all over the place. But I just wonder since they can cement it, why can't they paint it, funny leh.

    I hope that there will be more and more residents reporting so as to put pressure on the developer.
    u can attach pictures of the wall?
    what is the gap between ur project and ur neighbouring landed?

    if not enough space for scaffolding, then can use rope access specialist to paint the external walls.
    an eg.
    http://www.ropeaccessnetwork.com/ima...cial-big14.jpg
    http://www.ropeaccessnetwork.com/ima...rcial-big8.jpg
    for more images, http://www.ropeaccessnetwork.com/gallery.php
    but their services are not cheap.
    Last edited by hopeful; 01-10-13 at 16:29.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful View Post
    i think the guy means the side walls with the neighbouring landed houses only are "unpainted". the front is still nice and beautiful.

    but strange also, landed like 2-3 storey, his project should be 4-5 storey. how come his co-owners didnt notice the side walls not "painted".
    but it's even uglier......ma chiam half-cooked turkey..........

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    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful View Post
    u can attach pictures of the wall?
    what is the gap between ur project and ur neighbouring landed?

    if not enough space for scaffolding, then can use rope access specialist to paint the external walls.
    an eg.
    http://www.ropeaccessnetwork.com/ima...cial-big14.jpg
    http://www.ropeaccessnetwork.com/ima...rcial-big8.jpg
    for more images, http://www.ropeaccessnetwork.com/gallery.php
    but their services are not cheap.
    I doubt the developer want to spend that extra money.

    Looks like there is no gap at all, is attached to the neighbours' landed. I think the landed owners might be afraid that the paint will drip on their rooftop but can cover with the plastic sheet while painting mah.

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    i am really interested in how developer managed to built up to the landed wall without trespassing the airspace of the neighbour.

    can you ask the contractor how they managed that feat of engineering?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful View Post
    i am really interested in how developer managed to built up to the landed wall without trespassing the airspace of the neighbour.

    can you ask the contractor how they managed that feat of engineering?
    technically impossible. u need to have the basic scaffolding in place to build upwards.

    but coming back to the topic of wall paint, i still can't believe no buyer complained or MSM didn't pick the story up

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