What a property investor shouldn't do in today's market condition.

[Regulators]

Depends a lot on one's objective. If u hv 4-5 ptys that gv u $$15-20k positive cash flow per month, why would you want to sell away any unit? I am currently sitting on very comfortable rental income n considered retiring soon, giving up any pty would mean losing my consistent retirement fund. Buying another one to replace means forking out ridiculous absd.

Yes.

And I would offer a humble advice to those sitting on lots of paper profits to keep in touch with the pulse of the resale market.

Forget about the frenzy you are seeing, for example, in J Gateway.

Every three or six months or so, just keep your housing agents busy by putting a sale ad on, and gauge the responses. You could be surprised by how slow it could be?

Cheers!

[Secretariat]

Thanks for the useful info and advice.

have been reading all the old threads and discussions.

Interestingly, similar suggestions/discussions have been made by some to keep cash since 2011, and those who have been sitting on cash must have been unhappy to see prices still climbing since 2011 when some experts said investment risk too high.

Is it bec of the new CMs that u think ppty price increases have or will finally come to a halt or could this be a consolidating phase for the next climb and those keeping cash will miss the boat again?

Let's try to frame the context when we speak of cash on the sideline, specifically cash generating a risk-less returns by sitting in a savings/FD account.

When one deploys this cash, from the account, to other instruments such as bond, stock, property etc., the returns would be in relation to carrying risk of the particular instrument. Therefore, bond would get a lower return, stock should get a higher than bond etc.

So, it is risk level versus returns.

It is incredible, for me, when someone would imply that keeping cash is stupid, dumb or whatever, than putting it into property, as if property is risk-less.

Now, it is the nature of a bull market, almost any bull market you name in history, that the initial participants are the insiders, the big-money, because only them would have the capacity to make the market. In making a market, the whole purpose is to generate public awareness that a bull market is in progress. The public gets to know of it in an uneven manner, the people closer to the big-money would get in first, and then the next closer group and so on it goes.

So, a bull market is a process, taking place over time. During this time, there would be skeptics that would refuse to participate along the way, and they saw the gains of the early participants, and then they joined. The last people who join, we call this phenomenom "buyers capitulation", which would signal the climax of the bull market.

Regarding CMs, my 2-cents thought is that it has created a "trap". This is not a normal bull market, because a secondary market doesnt exist for new launches freely. This is like, the stock exchange stipulating that, this is the IPO of a stock, you could subscribe to it, but after getting your allotment, you would be taxed X% when you sell it the first year, Y% the second year and so on. Would you subscribe to the stock's IPO? Would there even be any buyer when the stock is trading on ready-basis?

So, that this is a risk-less property bull market is not true.

Cheers!

[Santro]

All the CM introduce more panic and buying in the past few years. The employed class is worried about job security, borrowing limits, ABSDs, retirement fear etc. The self-employed already has an option to leverage on their own venture. 5 years back, prices were so low and borrowing money from bank was much easier but how many on the employed class actually looked at property as an investment instrument.
When we talk about stocks, bonds - there is a learning curve and needs to be actively managed. The views show different personalities of our forum contributors. All in the right spirit

[walkthetiger]

All the CM introduce more panic and buying in the past few years.....The employed class is worried about job security, borrowing limits, ABSDs, retirement fear etc.

Worry about job, then buy more..

[Santro]

That's what I have seen. No job cannot take loan, so lock down something generating passive rental income. Age factor reduce loan borrowing tenure. There will be slowness in property like what Bro Chestnut and others mentioned. But I don't think it will drop drastically in near future. Investors looking for capital gains will cut down but those looking for rental income will still continue the play.

Worry about job, then buy more..

[狮子王]

That's what I have seen. No job cannot take loan, so lock down something generating passive rental income. Age factor reduce loan borrowing tenure. There will be slowness in property like what Bro Chestnut and others mentioned. But I don't think it will drop drastically in near future. Investors looking for capital gains will cut down but those looking for rental income will still continue the play.

Got job also must be careful taking loans!

I don't know about how you guys managed your investment risks/leverage factor. For myself and several family relatives, we have personally experienced it twice in the past cycles. Two of them went bankrupt in 1997 financial crisis. I was lucky to make a huge come back in 2008 when the market rebounded. I was left on a lifeline of only several months before the bank would call me. The reason how I survived 2008 was that I was managing my risk/leverage factor much better than my uncles. But markets are as usual very forgetful.

Again, like brother chestnut and some others here pointed out, there may not be any crash. A few pointed out because this bull run was artificially managed and hence we should keep our rental yielding assets which is properties.

For me, frankly, I don't care about what investment theory or philosophy. I ONLY RECOGNISE INTEREST RATES when I invest in properties. Maybe due to seeing how my uncles one by one collapsed in 1997 financial crisis. ( Some would say is it due to old age ? ). I feel I am a borderline over-leverager, hence my decision to convert a portion of my portfolio into cash to hedge the interest rates risks.

People here are very confident the rental yield will stay at the current rate? For me, I see that the rental yield is high due to the displaced demand and sudden influx of foreigners into a market with short supply back in 2008.

With so many new completion and NOW even MMs in Jurong, I am not so sure that this rental demand could still be there. It is very obvious the developers have been targeting HDB or middle class buyers who are buying the properties for investment rental yields rather than capital gains.


Good Luck,.

Your Still Very handsome uncle,
Blackjack21Trader

[wirehtc]

Got job also must be careful taking loans!

I don't know about how you guys managed your investment risks/leverage factor. For myself and several family relatives, we have personally experienced it twice in the past cycles. Two of them went bankrupt in 1997 financial crisis. I was lucky to make a huge come back in 2008 when the market rebounded. I was left on a lifeline of only several months before the bank would call me. The reason how I survived 2008 was that I was managing my risk/leverage factor much better than my uncles. But markets are as usual very forgetful.

Again, like brother chestnut and some others here pointed out, there may not be any crash. A few pointed out because this bull run was artificially managed and hence we should keep our rental yielding assets which is properties.

For me, frankly, I don't care about what investment theory or philosophy. I ONLY RECOGNISE INTEREST RATES when I invest in properties. Maybe due to seeing how my uncles one by one collapsed in 1997 financial crisis. ( Some would say is it due to old age ? ). I feel I am a borderline over-leverager, hence my decision to convert a portion of my portfolio into cash to hedge the interest rates risks.

People here are very confident the rental yield will stay at the current rate? For me, I see that the rental yield is high due to the displaced demand and sudden influx of foreigners into a market with short supply back in 2008.

With so many new completion and NOW even MMs in Jurong, I am not so sure that this rental demand could still be there. It is very obvious the developers have been targeting HDB or middle class buyers who are buying the properties for investment rental yields rather than capital gains.


Good Luck,.

Your Still Very handsome uncle,
Blackjack21Trader

Any change to your figures, in view of latest MAS measure?

Expect Singapore property :

1) Resale HDB : 3 to 5%
2) Newly completed HDB : 1 to 3%
3) Private property OCR : 3 to 5%
4) Private property CCR : 7 to 10%
5) Landed property OCR : -10% (negative )
6) Landed property in general: -10% (negative )

[chestnut]

Brudder lion, u made the rite decision to offload... For me, it is better to have peace of mind than worry.... Peaceful sleep is important....

I don't see recession in Singapore so soon. The CMs have curtailed the steep growth in pricing for properties... So far, I am very lucky with my analysis and entering of the market (after my 1997 experience - hahahahahaha). But always be fearful of the black swan.... That's why I always keep cash by my side.... Cash is an asset.... Cash will help u in black swan events. Under such events, cash will help you do the following :
1. Buy rights issue
2. Buy cheap stocks
3. Buy cheap assets

So remember, cash is an asset.... Remember to keep some hor....

[chestnut]

Any change to your figures, in view of latest MAS measure?

Expect Singapore property :

1) Resale HDB : 3 to 5%
2) Newly completed HDB : 1 to 3%
3) Private property OCR : 3 to 5%
4) Private property CCR : 7 to 10%
5) Landed property OCR : -10% (negative )
6) Landed property in general: -10% (negative )

Brudder, MAS measure is not the biggest fear.... It is the population growth (or the lack of it) that property investors need to be concerned.

If population growth is still on uptrend, swee.... Your property will go up because rental will go up. Hahahahahaha

If population stall, and number of properties increase, what will happen????

I am waiting for the stats leh... Up to now, not released leh... This is the key to the revelation.... Hahahahahaha

This will decide my next move in the property market....

Swee hor...

[狮子王]

Brudder, MAS measure is not the biggest fear.... It is the population growth (or the lack of it) that property investors need to be concerned.

If population growth is still on uptrend, swee.... Your property will go up because rental will go up. Hahahahahaha

If population stall, and number of properties increase, what will happen????

I am waiting for the stats leh... Up to now, not released leh... This is the key to the revelation.... Hahahahahaha

This will decide my next move in the property market....

Swee hor...

Yes brother, that is good logic. I have not thought of it this way

[狮子王]

Any change to your figures, in view of latest MAS measure?

Expect Singapore property :

1) Resale HDB : 3 to 5%
2) Newly completed HDB : 1 to 3%
3) Private property OCR : 3 to 5%
4) Private property CCR : 7 to 10%
5) Landed property OCR : -10% (negative )
6) Landed property in general: -10% (negative )

We are at the late bull's stage in my humble view, so the figures should be around there give and take 1-2%. Maybe even more negative for landed.

[chestnut]

Yes brother, that is good logic. I have not thought of it this way

Brudder, what caused the runaway prices from 2005/6 onwards???? Look at the population increase .....

This is the main key....

Look at
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/singapore/interest-rate

Key in 1990 to 1997. See interest rate then and explain to me why property prices shot up during that period....

Brudder, don't always rely on your 3rd eye....

You need ESP.... Hahahahahahaha

I share so much Liao... Now you will see me going hibernation again.... I need to dig some more info and do deep analysis... Hahahahahaha

Chao.....

[wirehtc]

Brudder, MAS measure is not the biggest fear.... It is the population growth (or the lack of it) that property investors need to be concerned.

If population growth is still on uptrend, swee.... Your property will go up because rental will go up. Hahahahahaha

If population stall, and number of properties increase, what will happen????

I am waiting for the stats leh... Up to now, not released leh... This is the key to the revelation.... Hahahahahaha

This will decide my next move in the property market....

Swee hor...

The figures are from Bro Lion's website. He probably has to revise downwards for this year.

From JTC's website, the main growth action (due to recent industrial land sales and new plans) will be in the west for the next few years. Re-sale and rental demand will be there. http://www.jtc.gov.sg/News/Press-Rel...s/default.aspx

It is difficult for population to stall now. There are more marriages and babies, so we can expect citizen population growth to climb. If the government maintains the immigration number, it will be caught off guard by the upgraders who need more space for their children in the next few years when the children grow up.

I'm expecting the immigration numbers to increase in the next 1-2 years because Singapore is moving rapidly into new manfacturing and service areas that the local universities and polytechnics are not producing fast enough, and the graduates may not have accumulated sufficient experience.

[chestnut]

Brudder, expect and getting the facts are 2 different things....

With facts come reality.... I also expect but waiting for fact to prove my theory... Hahahahahaha

As for last leg of the bull run.... Again, I damn confused...

We were in the worst recession until even mm say it is long lasting.... Remember??????

Let me ask you 1 simple question mr lion.... Has the STI reached its previous peak???? Do u expect it to supercede the previous peak and by how much??? When u think it will just surpass the previous peak????

Brudders, I may be wrong hor.... You all can contradict me leh... Remember, there is this thing called the black swan which I love.... Black swan provides opportunities hor... We must love to embrace black swan events... But to properly embrace it, we need to hold $$$$$$. Hahahahahaha

The figures are from Bro Lion's website. He probably has to revise downwards for this year.

From JTC's website, the main growth action (due to recent industrial land sales and new plans) will be in the west for the next few years. Re-sale and rental demand will be there.

It is difficult for population to stall now. There are more marriages and babies, so we can expect citizen population growth to climb. If the government maintains the immigration number, it will be caught off guard by the upgraders who need more space for their children in the next few years when the children grow up.

I'm expecting the immigration numbers to increase in the next 1-2 years because Singapore is moving rapidly into new manfacturing and service areas that the local universities and polytechnics are not producing fast enough, and the graduates may not have accumulated sufficient experience.

[wirehtc]

Brudder, expect and getting the facts are 2 different things....

With facts come reality.... I also expect but waiting for fact to prove my theory... Hahahahahaha

As for last leg of the bull run.... Again, I damn confused...

We were in the worst recession until even mm say it is long lasting.... Remember??????

Let me ask you 1 simple question mr lion.... Has the STI reached its previous peak???? Do u expect it to supercede the previous peak and by how much??? When u think it will just surpass the previous peak????

Brudders, I may be wrong hor.... You all can contradict me leh... Remember, there is this thing called the black swan which I love.... Black swan provides opportunities hor... We must love to embrace black swan events... But to properly embrace it, we need to hold $$$$$$. Hahahahahaha

I agree on the holding $ part, but to me, it is more as a buffer. The only black swan event that can possibly happen to Singapore is likely to be in 2016.

[chestnut]

I agree on the holding $ part, but to me, it is more as a buffer. The only black swan event that can possibly happen to Singapore is likely to be in 2016.

Brudder, black swan is when u don't expect and it hits u... Example

1997, 2008

Unexpected events with major buying opportunities....

With so much liquidity all over, asset prices will go up....

How many expect STI to hit its previous peak?????

We suffered 1997,2000,2003.... The property prices just surpassed 1996 previous peak and people expect price drop so soon.... I

For me, prices of properties are not going up because of CM... Hahahahahaha

Anyways, I just tcss... If I really can predict so well, I already buy 100 properties leh.... Hahahahahaha

[wirehtc]

Brudder, black swan is when u don't expect and it hits u... Example

1997, 2008

Unexpected events with major buying opportunities....

With so much liquidity all over, asset prices will go up....

How many expect STI to hit its previous peak?????

We suffered 1997,2000,2003.... The property prices just surpassed 1996 previous peak and people expect price drop so soon.... I

For me, prices of properties are not going up because of CM... Hahahahahaha

Anyways, I just tcss... If I really can predict so well, I already buy 100 properties leh.... Hahahahahaha

If your blackswan means big discount in property prices, then I have misunderstood you. I meant probably political in 2016 and some further shift in policies thereafter.

[Secretariat]

Brudder, MAS measure is not the biggest fear.... It is the population growth (or the lack of it) that property investors need to be concerned.

If population growth is still on uptrend, swee.... Your property will go up because rental will go up. Hahahahahaha

If population stall, and number of properties increase, what will happen????

I am waiting for the stats leh... Up to now, not released leh... This is the key to the revelation.... Hahahahahaha

This will decide my next move in the property market....

Swee hor...

Every bull market started with strong fundamentals. In our case, there existed (may still exist) a supply shortfall as per MBT legacy. The demand has been unleashed with the supply of liquidity as per FED policy. At the later stage, participants would ignore the fundamental, whether it still exists.

In other words, without the QEs it is doubtful that the demand was as strong as it was initially.

So, a bull market is always a bull market of liquidity supply. In our case, property is the instrument where this liquidity supply is being channeled. The signal of a dwindling liquidity supply is of course the increasing Interest rate. An increasing interest rate may not necessary stop a bull run, provided that the participants continued to get good returns when entering the market.

Cheers!

[chestnut]

Every bull market started with strong fundamentals. In our case, there existed (may still exist) a supply shortfall as per MBT legacy. The demand has been unleashed with the supply of liquidity as per FED policy. At the later stage, participants would ignore the fundamental, whether it still exists.

In other words, without the QEs it is doubtful that the demand was as strong as it was initially.

So, a bull market is always a bull market of liquidity supply. In our case, property is the instrument where this liquidity supply is being channeled. The signal of a dwindling liquidity supply is of course the increasing Interest rate. An increasing interest rate may not necessary stop a bull run, provided that the participants continued to get good returns when entering the market.

Cheers!

Brudder, u damn analytical leh... Wat I am saying is the bull run is now turning to a snail crawl. Hahahahaha

I mentioned this in previous post leh.... I am out of props and now I to other investments leh.... I did not encourage buying of props leh.

I just wondering why people think there will be a recession? When sti has not hit previous peak?

Interest rates were damn high in prior to 1996 peak. What caused the bull run up then when interest rate was high? Hahaha

Hold cash for unforeseen circumstance I fully agree... Not investing now I also blur? But different strokes for different people rite. So long as can sleep well at nite, that is the best strategy.... Hahahaha.

Cheers

[狮子王]

If your blackswan means big discount in property prices, then I have misunderstood you. I meant probably political in 2016 and some further shift in policies thereafter.

Politically wise if can make the middle class/HDB dwellers happy and tide over a blackswan, then we should still be very stable beyond 2016 with the current PAP in power. If between now and 2016 anything happens like a blackswan, then I cannot say for sure liao.

Brother chestnut reference to the interest rate chart @ http://www.tradingeconomics.com/singapore/interest-rate has woke up my THIRD EYE.

If you zoomed into 1980,1997 particularly the interest rates shot up to 20% ( Believe is Oil Crisis 1980) and 10% twice in 1997( Financial Crisis Thailand and Hong Kong ).

A short span of time like several months, but long enough to reset the wealth of many and sent a few up lorry.

Good Luck, that is all I can reveal. I am still working on my Celestial 2014 Prediction, so I cannot really conclude at this point of time.

[Secretariat]

Got job also must be careful taking loans!

I don't know about how you guys managed your investment risks/leverage factor. For myself and several family relatives, we have personally experienced it twice in the past cycles. Two of them went bankrupt in 1997 financial crisis. I was lucky to make a huge come back in 2008 when the market rebounded. I was left on a lifeline of only several months before the bank would call me. The reason how I survived 2008 was that I was managing my risk/leverage factor much better than my uncles. But markets are as usual very forgetful.

.................

Good Luck,.

Your Still Very handsome uncle,
Blackjack21Trader

You brought up, in my view, the most important risk factor in property investment - the leverage.

People who are familiar with other investment instruments would know that you couldn't really invest in bond, stock with the kind of 4-to-1 leverage you could get in property. And yet, 4-to-1 is still the leverage available to people wanting to buy a property, when they don't have an outstanding mortage. It is ironic that, when the median prices have grown some 65% since the lows in 2009, the highest leverage ratio is being offered to those who are buying their first properties.

Cheers!

[狮子王]

You brought up, in my view, the most important risk factor in property investment - the leverage.

People who are familiar with other investment instruments would know that you couldn't really invest in bond, stock with the kind of 4-to-1 leverage you could get in property. And yet, 4-to-1 is still the leverage available to people wanting to buy a property, when they don't have an outstanding mortage. It is ironic that, when the median prices have grown some 65% since the lows in 2009, the highest leverage ratio is being offered to those who are buying their first properties.

Cheers!

You are a very clever person. I think I know what is in your mind but you do not wish to reveal FULLY your thoughts. That is correct.

But let me put it in less offensive form so that it will be acceptable for the general to read:

Brother, you are right. The whole concept is LEVERAGE. You see how high interest comes before RECESSION ( NOT AFTER !) and that is why LEVERAGE and RISK is the most important factors in my mind. What causes a recession is a high interest rates SPIKES that wiped out many businesses and my uncles. ( cool, interest rates took a blame for my uncles's perils, WOAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH)

[chestnut]

Brudder, 1997... Many biz were doing borrowing in sing dollar and when crisis happened, their in country currency weakened which resulted in jialat situation.

So there is some reference for your future.... Hahahaha... U are smart and should be able to read what I am telling u hor.... This one is my little gift to you... Figure out what happen to this indo biz who borrowed in sing dollar to take advantage of our lower interest rate. Just an example.

Hahahahahaha

Politically wise if can make the middle class/HDB dwellers happy and tide over a blackswan, then we should still be very stable beyond 2016 with the current PAP in power. If between now and 2016 anything happens like a blackswan, then I cannot say for sure liao.

Brother chestnut reference to the interest rate chart @ http://www.tradingeconomics.com/singapore/interest-rate has woke up my THIRD EYE.

If you zoomed into 1980,1997 particularly the interest rates shot up to 20% ( Believe is Oil Crisis 1980) and 10% twice in 1997( Financial Crisis Thailand and Hong Kong ).

A short span of time like several months, but long enough to reset the wealth of many and sent a few up lorry.

Good Luck, that is all I can reveal. I am still working on my Celestial 2014 Prediction, so I cannot really conclude at this point of time.

[狮子王]

Brudder, 1997... Many biz were doing borrowing in sing dollar and when crisis happened, their in country currency weakened which resulted in jialat situation.

So there is some reference for your future.... Hahahaha... U are smart and should be able to read what I am telling u hor.... This one is my little gift to you... Figure out what happen to this indo biz who borrowed in sing dollar to take advantage of our lower interest rate. Just an example.

Hahahahahaha

Thanks in advance, good brother But brother Secretariat is smarter but ACT BLURR like you leh..WOAAHAHHHEHEHEHEH

[chestnut]

Brudder, the new CM dictates 40 or 50% downpayment... For investor... Rite??

So what is the impact should interest rate go up???

Do u foresee Sibor to shoot from 0.35 to 1% or even 3%....?????

The key now is negotiate for fixed rate on interest when your loan is due... So u can sleep peacefully. Hahahahahaha

You are a very clever person. I think I know what is in your mind but you do not wish to reveal FULLY your thoughts. That is correct.

But let me put it in less offensive form so that it will be acceptable for the general to read:

Brother, you are right. The whole concept is LEVERAGE. You see how high interest comes before RECESSION ( NOT AFTER !) and that is why LEVERAGE and RISK is the most important factors in my mind. What causes a recession is a high interest rates SPIKES that wiped out many businesses and my uncles. ( cool, interest rates took a blame for my uncles's perils, WOAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH)

[Secretariat]

Brudder, u damn analytical leh... Wat I am saying is the bull run is now turning to a snail crawl. Hahahahaha

I mentioned this in previous post leh.... I am out of props and now I to other investments leh.... I did not encourage buying of props leh.

I just wondering why people think there will be a recession? When sti has not hit previous peak?

Interest rates were damn high in prior to 1996 peak. What caused the bull run up then when interest rate was high? Hahaha

Hold cash for unforeseen circumstance I fully agree... Not investing now I also blur? But different strokes for different people rite. So long as can sleep well at nite, that is the best strategy.... Hahahaha.

Cheers

Lol, I didn't say there would be a recession, or a property market crash la...

What is a investment? Making an investment is really just moving the money from the bank account, park it in an instrument that in one's judgement that at the end when moving it back to the bank account, one would get far more money.

It is all judgement.

What would motivate one to move the money from the bank account? Normally, when the outlook is inflationary, then it would be better to park the money in an instrument with returns that beats the inflation rate. When the outlook is deflationary, then it should be better to keep the money in the bank account, even when the bank provides close to zero interest rate.

Cheers!

[chestnut]

Thanks in advance, good brother But brother Secretariat is smarter but ACT BLURR like you leh..WOAAHAHHHEHEHEHEH

Brudder, everyone here is smarter than me... I tell u honestly, I am a blur sotong, and old foggy, and only know how to tcss... Don't believe everything I say hor...

I very free now adays.... Dksg is office boy. Me, I swatting mosquito one...

Hahahahahaha

[狮子王]

Brudder, the new CM dictates 40 or 50% downpayment... For investor... Rite??

So what is the impact should interest rate go up???

Do u foresee Sibor to shoot from 0.35 to 1% or even 3%....?????

The key now is negotiate for fixed rate on interest when your loan is due... So u can sleep peacefully. Hahahahahaha

Now I see MAS's FULL rationale for putting all the CMs in place liao. Wahhh...this Tharman really very smart hor.....

[chestnut]

Bro, u mistaken Liao...

I didn't say u leh... There are people who say recession coming... I just blur

I seriously think CASH is an asset.... Without CASH, how to buy properties when down turn????



May your dreams come true.... Because if it does, I will be there... Hahahahahaha

Lol, I didn't say there would be a recession, or a property market crash la...

What is a investment? Making an investment is really just moving the money from the bank account, park it in an instrument that in one's judgement that at the end when moving it back to the bank account, one would get far more money.

It is all judgement.

What would motivate one to move the money from the bank account? Normally, when the outlook is inflationary, then it would be better to park the money in an instrument with returns that beats the inflation rate. When the outlook is deflationary, then it should be better to keep the money in the bank account, even when the bank provides close to zero interest rate.

Cheers!

[狮子王]

Brudder, everyone here is smarter than me... I tell u honestly, I am a blur sotong, and old foggy, and only know how to tcss... Don't believe everything I say hor...

I very free now adays.... Dksg is office boy. Me, I swatting mosquito one...

Hahahahahaha

Now I also see why there could only be a soft landing and not a collapse if a Blackswan comes along. Wahhhh...this Ah Khaw also very smart hor.... Wonder if Tharman and Ah Khaw retire next time got people of same calibre to take over bo har ? They can really take on the US of A...SWEE !