What a property investor shouldn't do in today's market condition.

[yowetan]

There is some truth in your logic because over the past 6 years, the capital gains is around S$50,000 per year on the average for a private CCR property How I know, dun ask . WOAHAHAHHAHHEHEHEHHEHEHEH

I wouldn't bother so much today for I have already own one in Mt Sinai. In the past, I would be very eager to know why though.

However, I have great beliefs in my judgement that Mt Sinai will be a very interesting place.

[radha08]

Bro secretariat, here comes my honest view :

Property market has lost its acceleration power.... The booster has been used quite a lot of times Liao until finished.....

The days of big gains are over..... Every investment instrument has its cycle.... Cheers

i DONT agree with you 100%

...1 AGREE with you 101%

[狮子王]

I wouldn't bother so much today for I have already own one in Mt Sinai. In the past, I would be very eager to know why though.

However, I have great beliefs in my judgement that Mt Sinai will be a very interesting place.

Share leh...you must know something we don't as I have always suspected.

[radha08]

I wouldn't bother so much today for I have already own one in Mt Sinai. In the past, I would be very eager to know why though.

However, I have great beliefs in my judgement that Mt Sinai will be a very interesting place.

to Mt sinai

[chestnut]

i DONT agree with you 100%

...1 AGREE with you 101%

Brudder, the days of say 2006 to 2011 doubling effect over 5 years is over.... Now capital gain is slow and steady because of CM....

The sad part is, not many can participate in 2nd property because of absd.... Even more cannot participate in 3 or more because of hire absd.

I must emphasize : I did not unload... I downsized and bought additional during CM... & hahahaha

I actually wonder why some unloaded????

So far, I made more money in one of my downsizing to waterview from Botannia.

I really don't expect a recession so soon after 2009 recession in Singapore. It is only 4 years or so since the last recession. Can some one share when they expect the next recession????

Hey lion head, why u sell har???? Damn cheem....

With all this CMs, I am expecting prices not to cheong like last time... I am not expecting prices to drop leh.....

Look at tampines gls, it is 35% more than qbay leh.....

So I tell all of you honestly, I damn blur by all this collecting ammo and waiting for crash

You guys/gals know something I don't know leh... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

But ok lar... Keep it to yourself hor...

For me, up/down... No difference... Please don't ask me why... Hahahahahaha

Cheers

[Zile]

You should be glad to access a system that provides you an appreciating SGD, a reserve quantum by the garmen that is not known to the world. And near to 1% loan rates..

What unnecessary risk are we talking about when you can borrow at less than 2%, access e market with many options of investing of up to 5% yield. Whilst your neighbors earthlings are paying 5% in Malaysia, 8% in Indonesia for housing loans.. And for the majority of us, we are working individuals and have to rely on debt more than savings to buy our first house,

You should be blessed that the funds are lapping our shores instead of moving elsewhere.

Ha ha ok ok my humble apologies!

A matter of perspectives lah.... Whether you owe bank money or the bank owes you money! (Ah... How a few short years can make one's head very big)

From my humble experience: Not an excel sheet but "cash" when that ONE opportunity presented itself...

[chestnut]

My opinion on what a property investor shouldn't do -

If the investor has a second property (investment unit). Better don't sell.... Unless this investor is damn savvy with other financial instruments...

At lease with 2nd unit, u still getting rental yield.... Say nett 2.5%. Yield after leverage of 5 times(20% down payment)

ROI is 2.5%x5 = 12.5%

If 40% downpayment utilized,

ROI is 2.5 x 100/40 = 6.25%

If u can get rent to cover mortgage throughout your loan tenure, your housing loan amount is fully paid by your tenant.... You only paid deposit for your house. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... Such simple logic....

Did I regret buying 1 unit at the peak of 1996???? No!!!!!! Why??????
I would never have learnt this valuable lesson.... Right now, my unit is higher than when I bot in 1996. Bot for 1.4 mil in 1996, today worth about 2 mil. All time low, 800k.... I always believe lessons must be learnt... And I really appreciate the lessons and price I paid in properties, stocks, forex, etc.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

But remember this, don't anyhow believe any forummers and do what he says... You decide your own destiny.... Only u know if you can tahan or not. Only you know your earning power. No 2 cases are the same. Cheers





Today good mood... So mood for sharing.... Hahahahahha

[Allthepies]

Property investment was good in the last few years, greater than 50% ROI per year... but moving forward, I view the ROI from property with leverage probably cannot beat stocks without leverage...

my expected minimum ROI from stocks is 10% per year long term...many people will doubt this is possible. However this is really achievable because my investable amount is small, less than 1mil. When your investment size is small, it is much easier to get high rates of return.

This summarise why small investor like me has decided to exit the property market.

[lajia]

Bro, if u are not affected by CMs, cash out 1 and buy another cheaper one for rental is correct... , 100% agreeable. But if not, then the ABSD could cost u 2-3yrs of rental... if u are confident of substantial capital increase within the next 2-3 yrs, this approach is still ok...

Otherwise, here's my take for next 3 yrs. this is how I see...

1) while interest might be low, but due to the CMs, and slowing mkt with substantial increase in supply, u should be able to afford waiting for 1 yr. rather than pay ABSD and wasted your rental...as your rental would be offset by ABSD.

2) while many analysts shouting for interest rate increase, I still think we should be safe till 2015 or even beyond. We are into era that we have never experience before for the globe. >>>slow economic growth with prolong high unemployment in Europe & US. China will definitely be slowing as well but with ASEAN increasing number of middle class and spending, we should be cushioned...

3) if by 2014 mid and garmen still have not lift the ABSD, please consider to plunge into the mkt....
the effect of AEC in 2015 could be overwhelming the supply. By then, it maybe another cheong time that those MTB will continue to be on the sideline. Why? Many should hv accumulate enough ammo during the last 3-4yrs and cannoth wait any longer while the next factor comes from liberalizing of trade, service & HR...
4) 4key locations would benefits.....

Just my opinion....

To be continue...

Brudder, the days of say 2006 to 2011 doubling effect over 5 years is over.... Now capital gain is slow and steady because of CM....

The sad part is, not many can participate in 2nd property because of absd.... Even more cannot participate in 3 or more because of hire absd.

I must emphasize : I did not unload... I downsized and bought additional during CM... & hahahaha

I actually wonder why some unloaded????

So far, I made more money in one of my downsizing to waterview from Botannia.

I really don't expect a recession so soon after 2009 recession in Singapore. It is only 4 years or so since the last recession. Can some one share when they expect the next recession????

Hey lion head, why u sell har???? Damn cheem....

With all this CMs, I am expecting prices not to cheong like last time... I am not expecting prices to drop leh.....

Look at tampines gls, it is 35% more than qbay leh.....

So I tell all of you honestly, I damn blur by all this collecting ammo and waiting for crash

You guys/gals know something I don't know leh... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

But ok lar... Keep it to yourself hor...

For me, up/down... No difference... Please don't ask me why... Hahahahahaha

Cheers

[leonglp]

My opinion on what a property investor shouldn't do -

If the investor has a second property (investment unit). Better don't sell.... Unless this investor is damn savvy with other financial instruments...

At lease with 2nd unit, u still getting rental yield.... Say nett 2.5%. Yield after leverage of 5 times(20% down payment)

ROI is 2.5%x5 = 12.5%

If 40% downpayment utilized,

ROI is 2.5 x 100/40 = 6.25%

If u can get rent to cover mortgage throughout your loan tenure, your housing loan amount is fully paid by your tenant.... You only paid deposit for your house. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... Such simple logic....

Did I regret buying 1 unit at the peak of 1996???? No!!!!!! Why??????
I would never have learnt this valuable lesson.... Right now, my unit is higher than when I bot in 1996. Bot for 1.4 mil in 1996, today worth about 2 mil. All time low, 800k.... I always believe lessons must be learnt... And I really appreciate the lessons and price I paid in properties, stocks, forex, etc.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

But remember this, don't anyhow believe any forummers and do what he says... You decide your own destiny.... Only u know if you can tahan or not. Only you know your earning power. No 2 cases are the same. Cheers





Today good mood... So mood for sharing.... Hahahahahha

Fully agreed.

However, I would also propose someone intend to buy a second unit now should only buy those resale units with tenancy. Buy new means paying future 'uptrend' price with no rental income....

[狮子王]

Brudder, the days of say 2006 to 2011 doubling effect over 5 years is over.... Now capital gain is slow and steady because of CM....
....
Hey lion head, why u sell har???? Damn cheem....
....
Cheers

well brother chestnut must have misunderstood me. I did not say I am waiting for any crash.

I sold also not because I am waiting to pick some cheap durians. I share a major portion of your logic But with one major difference. I am more concerned about my leverage and risk position rather than gains from instrument. Well, maybe you are the 95% reported in the media that are not highly leveraged and I am the 5% which MAS is concerned about.

I respect MAS's latest banking guideline, because I have high regards for Minister Tharman. I believe he must have seen something I could not see or understand because I reminded myself about his more superior position in IMF than myself as a businessman. If he spoke as a Finance Minister of Singapore that interest rates may edge up, I would ignore him. Because he has a position in IMF,so he is definately more knowledgeble and wise than me. Although I cannot confirm he has a THIRD EYE like your handsome brother.

Here is what I feel personally after Minister Khaw and Minister Tharman warned about the possibility of a rate increase. Very obviously, from my deduction, and the way they said it, the increase might not be gradual. This is my personal opinion and you might read their messages differently from me.

That said. That is the reason why I decided to unwind my position to a more comfortable position. I am still vested though.

Good Luck.

Your Handsome Brother,
Blackjack21Trader

[Secretariat]

Why people would exit this market?

I couldn't speak for others, moreover everyone has his/her unique circumstance, a different entry price, a different investment timeframe.

For me, it is the buying that was difficult; the selling was always easy, because it was just a reaching of a goal.

In buying, various scenarios were runned through, buffer for further downsides was set aside, the goal was set.

When people are buying up J gateway without a care today, I could assure you that to pull the buy trigger was not an easy decision in end 2009.

I was anticipating the goal (as set) to be reached in early 2014 or so. But it was reached recently, so we called in the cash.

Cheers!

[狮子王]

Why people would exit this market?

I couldn't speak for others, moreover everyone has his/her unique circumstance, a different entry price, a different investment timeframe.

For me, it is the buying that was difficult; the selling was always easy, because it was just a reaching of a goal.

In buying, various scenarios were runned through, buffer for further downsides was set aside, the goal was set.

When people are buying up J gateway without a care today, I could assure you that to pull the buy trigger was not an easy decision in end 2009.

I was anticipating the goal (as set) to be reached in early 2014 or so. But it was reached recently, so we called in the cash.

Cheers!

You spoke my mind in your last sentence. The recent dash gave me the creep if you know what I mean. But I could be wrong, just my gut feeling only.

[chestnut]

Thank u brudder lion for your sharing....

Now at least I got better pix from u.

Now today I good mood, so will share Somemore...

1. If over leverage, better unwind in any sign of danger... So mr lion, great move....

2. All the CMs were created to prevent an exponential rise in property prices.... If there were no CMs, today I will be off loading a few units. Hahahahahaha....

3. The CMs are to allow an equal platform for 1st timers.... Remember, private forms 20% of housing population and there must be aspirations that can be achieved to allow our top 20% to reach the goal of owning a private.

4. Many parents were buying for the kids, and this needs to be stopped.... This again, would allow aspirations to be achieved by the future top 20% or rather top 10% to enter into this "inner circle".

With future investment property having downpayment of 40% or more, can this group weather future storm??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Everybody is screaming inflation, what does this mean for the prices of properties (if there were no CMs). So CM is CORRECT!!!!!!

I stress... I am not for nor against properties... I am just sharing my views... All of you should have your own view and act according to your financial standing and your goals.... Different strokes for different people. For me, I am retiring next year leh.... Hahahahahaha

well brother chestnut must have misunderstood me. I did not say I am waiting for any crash.

I sold also not because I am waiting to pick some cheap durians. I share a major portion of your logic But with one major difference. I am more concerned about my leverage and risk position rather than gains from instrument. Well, maybe you are the 95% reported in the media that are not highly leveraged and I am the 5% which MAS is concerned about.

I respect MAS's latest banking guideline, because I have high regards for Minister Tharman. I believe he must have seen something I could not see or understand because I reminded myself about his more superior position in IMF than myself as a businessman. If he spoke as a Finance Minister of Singapore that interest rates may edge up, I would ignore him. Because he has a position in IMF,so he is definately more knowledgeble and wise than me. Although I cannot confirm he has a THIRD EYE like your handsome brother.

Here is what I feel personally after Minister Khaw and Minister Tharman warned about the possibility of a rate increase. Very obviously, from my deduction, and the way they said it, the increase might not be gradual. This is my personal opinion and you might read their messages differently from me.

That said. That is the reason why I decided to unwind my position to a more comfortable position. I am still vested though.

Good Luck.

Your Handsome Brother,
Blackjack21Trader

[Cyberknight]

Ha ha ok ok my humble apologies!

A matter of perspectives lah.... Whether you owe bank money or the bank owes you money! (Ah... How a few short years can make one's head very big)

From my humble experience: Not an excel sheet but "cash" when that ONE opportunity presented itself...

Agree lah. some trends you just cannot go against.

as for excel, it is just a tool to gather what you know and you have. calculate the possibilities and explore the not so possible. it has shown me insights into things that seemed impossible at first calculation but became possible.

[chestnut]

Brudder, when u sold, did u go into other financial instruments???

The issue is, not many are savvy with financial instruments... Herein lies the problem...

When u retire, how to get passive income???? Herein lies the problem for many.... I don't see this to be an issue for you leh

Brudder, your topic will indeed stir a lot of thinking here and this is great!!!!

Men must be flexible to change with the tide and ride different waves....

Cheers bro

Why people would exit this market?

I couldn't speak for others, moreover everyone has his/her unique circumstance, a different entry price, a different investment timeframe.

For me, it is the buying that was difficult; the selling was always easy, because it was just a reaching of a goal.

In buying, various scenarios were runned through, buffer for further downsides was set aside, the goal was set.

When people are buying up J gateway without a care today, I could assure you that to pull the buy trigger was not an easy decision in end 2009.

I was anticipating the goal (as set) to be reached in early 2014 or so. But it was reached recently, so we called in the cash.

Cheers!

[狮子王]

Thank u brudder lion for your sharing....

Now at least I got better pix from u.

Now today I good mood, so will share Somemore...

1. If over leverage, better unwind in any sign of danger... So mr lion, great move....

2. All the CMs were created to prevent an exponential rise in property prices.... If there were no CMs, today I will be off loading a few units. Hahahahahaha....

3. The CMs are to allow an equal platform for 1st timers.... Remember, private forms 20% of housing population and there must be aspirations that can be achieved to allow our top 20% to reach the goal of owning a private.

4. Many parents were buying for the kids, and this needs to be stopped.... This again, would allow aspirations to be achieved by the future top 20% or rather top 10% to enter into this "inner circle".

With future investment property having downpayment of 40% or more, can this group weather future storm??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Everybody is screaming inflation, what does this mean for the prices of properties (if there were no CMs). So CM is CORRECT!!!!!!

I stress... I am not for nor against properties... I am just sharing my views... All of you should have your own view and act according to your financial standing and your goals.... Different strokes for different people. For me, I am retiring next year leh.... Hahahahahaha

That is some great advice, good brother

You so old meh...WOAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHHA

[chestnut]

That is some great advice, good brother

You so old meh...WOAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHHA

Brudder, I am young.... I am under leveraged... I play within my comfort zone...

I share because life has been good to me and I am compelled to share without asking anything in return... Hahahahahaha... Those who think I sprout nonsense, please kindly ignore me hor.... Because if u hamtam me, I may not come back, and u may deprive others of my sharing... Hahahahahaha... Joking lah.... Just hamtam me lar....

Lion head... We should be about the same age lar... Maybe u younger by 2 years lor... U same age, younger or older than Singapore????

[indomie]

Bro, if u are not affected by CMs, cash out 1 and buy another cheaper one for rental is correct... , 100% agreeable. But if not, then the ABSD could cost u 2-3yrs of rental... if u are confident of substantial capital increase within the next 2-3 yrs, this approach is still ok...

Otherwise, here's my take for next 3 yrs. this is how I see...

1) while interest might be low, but due to the CMs, and slowing mkt with substantial increase in supply, u should be able to afford waiting for 1 yr. rather than pay ABSD and wasted your rental...as your rental would be offset by ABSD.

2) while many analysts shouting for interest rate increase, I still think we should be safe till 2015 or even beyond. We are into era that we have never experience before for the globe. >>>slow economic growth with prolong high unemployment in Europe & US. China will definitely be slowing as well but with ASEAN increasing number of middle class and spending, we should be cushioned...

3) if by 2014 mid and garmen still have not lift the ABSD, please consider to plunge into the mkt....
the effect of AEC in 2015 could be overwhelming the supply. By then, it maybe another cheong time that those MTB will continue to be on the sideline. Why? Many should hv accumulate enough ammo during the last 3-4yrs and cannoth wait any longer while the next factor comes from liberalizing of trade, service & HR...
4) 4key locations would benefits.....

Just my opinion....

To be continue...

Excellent analysis. I personally will never sell anything. Human explosion in sg is a certainty, no matter if the global economy is good or bad. No matter interest rate low or high.

[Cyberknight]

Brudder, I am young.... I am under leveraged... I play within my comfort zone...

I share because life has been good to me and I am compelled to share without asking anything in return... Hahahahahaha... Those who think I sprout nonsense, please kindly ignore me hor.... Because if u hamtam me, I may not come back, and u may deprive others of my sharing... Hahahahahaha... Joking lah.... Just hamtam me lar....

Lion head... We should be about the same age lar... Maybe u younger by 2 years lor... U same age, younger or older than Singapore????

Brother Chestnut and Lion King, great sharing.
It is folks like you so willing to share that I felt soo blessed and compelled to share..

directionally I am still si beh long property. just which one only.

[teddybear]

Should avoid MMs, especially in OCRs! Massive supply and completion coming by 2015-2018! Who want to rent a dog-house in the OCRs?

Further, allow me to remind all brothers and sisters that there are many new projects completing by 2015 to 2018. Tenants typically go for NEW projects to rent, that is from my experience. I kena before that is how I know.

My reminder to consider this point carefully before you buy for investment.

Good Luck.

[chestnut]

Brother Chestnut and Lion King, great sharing.
It is folks like you so willing to share that I felt soo blessed and compelled to share..

directionally I am still si beh long property. just which one only.

Brudder, your excel spreadsheet is the correct way...

Do a simulation for your investment property...

After your total number of years on loan and finishing the loan
1. If rental = mortgage, how much u made???
2. If rental < mortgage, and u pay say 1k more, how much u make??? (could be 1k, 2k, etc... Depending in your simulation)
3. If rental > mortgage... No need to do simulation. Hahahaha - can afford another prop in future... Hahahahahaha

[teddybear]

1) Cashing in your properties is a big mistake because the CASH you take back cannot earn you similar return as a long term basis. Buying back another property is even worse because you are hit with all kind of penalties! Not doing anything with your properties is the best move......................

2) You can withdraw all your $ but will not affect interest rate, because too much CASH still stash with bank and the majority are unlikely to withdraw their cash.

Seems like quite a number with multiple properties who have cashed in recently r holding on to a major portion of the profit in cash (earning miserable interest from local banks) and waiting at the sideline because of ABSD.

At the same time we r seeing people borrowing like no tomorrow (if what yowetan is telling us is true!!!) from local banks, passing the risk to our deposit...

Just a silly thought: what would happen if enough of us forgo the lousy interest and withdraw our $!!!

Will the stingy local banks increase the saving interest rate then?

[Secretariat]

Brudder, when u sold, did u go into other financial instruments???

The issue is, not many are savvy with financial instruments... Herein lies the problem...

When u retire, how to get passive income???? Herein lies the problem for many.... I don't see this to be an issue for you leh

Brudder, your topic will indeed stir a lot of thinking here and this is great!!!!

Men must be flexible to change with the tide and ride different waves....

Cheers bro

Haha, it would sound funny or ridiculous to many people, but I think that right now I just want to be in cash, when everyone said that cash in the bank is useless.

Cash is a great position.

Cheers!

[Cyberknight]

Should avoid MMs, especially in OCRs! Massive supply and completion coming by 2015-2018! Who want to rent a dog-house in the OCRs?

actually many, those with decent condo facilities will continue to attract one type of tenant that I came to realise.

住公寓最重要，可以请人到公寓烧烤，游泳。 公租房没小区设备。

They will rent....

[Secretariat]

You spoke my mind in your last sentence. The recent dash gave me the creep if you know what I mean. But I could be wrong, just my gut feeling only.

Yes.

And I would offer a humble advice to those sitting on lots of paper profits to keep in touch with the pulse of the resale market.

Forget about the frenzy you are seeing, for example, in J Gateway.

Every three or six months or so, just keep your housing agents busy by putting a sale ad on, and gauge the responses. You could be surprised by how slow it could be?

Cheers!

[star]

If u buy early it is very dumb to sell as your purchase price is very low, should just continue to collect rental as yield is excellent. I think ones should worry about some of the oversea property prices rather than singapore property prices.

[Singleton]

Yes.

And I would offer a humble advice to those sitting on lots of paper profits to keep in touch with the pulse of the resale market.

Forget about the frenzy you are seeing, for example, in J Gateway.

Every three or six months or so, just keep your housing agents busy by putting a sale ad on, and gauge the responses. You could be surprised by how slow it could be?

Cheers!

Thanks for the useful info and advice.

have been reading all the old threads and discussions.

Interestingly, similar suggestions/discussions have been made by some to keep cash since 2011, and those who have been sitting on cash must have been unhappy to see prices still climbing since 2011 when some experts said investment risk too high.

Is it bec of the new CMs that u think ppty price increases have or will finally come to a halt or could this be a consolidating phase for the next climb and those keeping cash will miss the boat again?

[chestnut]

Haha, it would sound funny or ridiculous to many people, but I think that right now I just want to be in cash, when everyone said that cash in the bank is useless.

Cash is a great position.

Cheers!

Brudder, not ridiculous leh... I holding cash wat... But I also hold properties, bonds, stocks, etc.... Cash MUST always be part of the total asset. Cash is required when cheap sales come along (black swan event, etc). Hahahaha

My bankers keep asking me to invest.... Hahahaha

Now I spreading my portfolio to cater to my retirement... Diff strategy liao.

[wirehtc]

Yes.

And I would offer a humble advice to those sitting on lots of paper profits to keep in touch with the pulse of the resale market.

Forget about the frenzy you are seeing, for example, in J Gateway.

Every three or six months or so, just keep your housing agents busy by putting a sale ad on, and gauge the responses. You could be surprised by how slow it could be?

Cheers!

The slow sales is artificially created by the cooling measures. Singaporeans are now more actively investing in properties overseas.