Owners in the West beware!!

[Regulators]

What a dumb comment, I was replying to someone, not providing info, u can't even differentiate. Trolling in the forum must be ur favourite pastime

i
This is as good as saying I know the last week toto winning number! Useless piece of info.

[DC33_2008]

A one bedder in MBR costing $2.1m is fetching only $4500 rental now. Not sure about this place when TOP?

Another interesting thread created by Ringo, after the storm in Landed.

I thought that he put up some very good arguments or defense of his views regarding the prospect of J Gateway, that somehow would force a reader to think out of the box slightly. As I wrote, there is never a consensus on prices, so I wouldn't bother with them. Moreover, the project was sold out within one day, so the market has spoken.

Whether the market is right or wrong for J Gateway, whether J Gateway represents the market top or if it becomes a price benchmark for the others, we need the time to tell.

Meanwhile...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxPZh...e_gdata_player

Enjoy!

[Secretariat]

A one bedder in MBR costing $2.1m is fetching only $4500 rental now. Not sure about this place when TOP?

Historically, as a bull market progressed toward its ending, the market would turn irrational. And the state of irrationality could last far longer than most people thought it would. And so, we have the phenomenom called greed, where people who were rational normally could turn irrational, the crowd effect. And also buyer capitulation, where people would sit out the bull market earlier, threw all cautions and joined the buying.

If the hurdle rate for a property investment is the rental yield rate, then I would suspect that most buyers of J Gateway have ignored this. It is questionable if there would be a substantial tenant pool for the area, considering the profile of the commercial enterprises or government agencies JLD is attempting to attract or relocate. It is, afterall, not going to be a Canary Wharf in London.

The MRT is at the doorstep, so it is hardly more convenient for someone who would work there to rent a place there. It is more useful for someone to travel to other parts of the island, to work, for example, simply because Jurong is located in one end of the island.

We are now at the 4th year of the bull market; by 2016 when it TOPs, that would be the 7th year of the bull market, assuming that it is still a bull market then. It is always possible, but one would have to measure and assign a probability to this scenario. To me, this probability is not 100%.

Just my 2-cents thought.

Cheers!

[lot286]

Historically, as a bull market progressed toward its ending, the market would turn irrational. And the state of irrationality could last far longer than most people thought it would. And so, we have the phenomenom called greed, where people who were rational normally could turn irrational, the crowd effect. And also buyer capitulation, where people would sit out the bull market earlier, threw all cautions and joined the buying.

If the hurdle rate for a property investment is the rental yield rate, then I would suspect that most buyers of J Gateway have ignored this. It is questionable if there would be a substantial tenant pool for the area, considering the profile of the commercial enterprises or government agencies JLD is attempting to attract or relocate. It is, afterall, not going to be a Canary Wharf in London.

The MRT is at the doorstep, so it is hardly more convenient for someone who would work there to rent a place there. It is more useful for someone to travel to other parts of the island, to work, for example, simply because Jurong is located in one end of the island.

We are now at the 4th year of the bull market; by 2016 when it TOPs, that would be the 7th year of the bull market, assuming that it is still a bull market then. It is always possible, but one would have to measure and assign a probability to this scenario. To me, this probability is not 100%.

Just my 2-cents thought.

Cheers!

Just to be sure, are you saying prices @ J Gateway has reached "irrational" levels?

[DKSG]

Just to be sure, are you saying prices @ J Gateway has reached "irrational" levels?

Oops ... I hope you are not one of those who cannot differential irrational and rational ...

Haha!

Just look into the mirror and ask yourself - $1,750 psf for a 99LH studio in Jurong ... Try and smile and see if you look real ?

Then look into the mirror again and ask yourself - $1,750 psf for a FH Studio in D11, Trizon ... and see if you look real ?

DKSG

[eng81157]

Oops ... I hope you are not one of those who cannot differential irrational and rational ...

Haha!

Just look into the mirror and ask yourself - $1,750 psf for a 99LH studio in Jurong ... Try and smile and see if you look real ?

Then look into the mirror again and ask yourself - $1,750 psf for a FH Studio in D11, Trizon ... and see if you look real ?

DKSG

just to add on, look in the mirror, smile and slap yourself to see if everything is real

[Ringo33]

Oops ... I hope you are not one of those who cannot differential irrational and rational ...

Haha!

Just look into the mirror and ask yourself - $1,750 psf for a 99LH studio in Jurong ... Try and smile and see if you look real ?

Then look into the mirror again and ask yourself - $1,750 psf for a FH Studio in D11, Trizon ... and see if you look real ?

DKSG

Belle Vue only $1550psf, FH, Near future MRT, walking distant to Orchard Road, located on Best Street of Singapore, neighbor to LKY.

Trizon very far leh. So near Clementi, nearest station Dover MRT.

So if Orchard apartment is priced at $1550 psf, then fair value for Trizon should be $1100psf?

[lot286]

Belle Vue only $1550psf, FH, Near future MRT, walking distant to Orchard Road, located on Best Street of Singapore, neighbor to LKY.

Trizon very far leh. So near Clementi, nearest station Dover MRT.

So if Orchard apartment is priced at $1550 psf, then fair value for Trizon should be $1100psf?

Thats right. And why are some 99 yr Medini ( Iskandar) Condos > KL central FH condos?

[DKSG]

Belle Vue only $1550psf, FH, Near future MRT, walking distant to Orchard Road, located on Best Street of Singapore, neighbor to LKY.

Trizon very far leh. So near Clementi, nearest station Dover MRT.

So if Orchard apartment is priced at $1550 psf, then fair value for Trizon should be $1100psf?

If Belle Vue studio is $1550 and Jurong studio is $1,700, I think not only the person looking into the mirror should slap themselve to see if it is real, they better ask their whole family to ham tam them until their faint.

Ask EVERYONE in this forum - if Belle Vue studio is at $1550, will you still pay $1,700 for Jurong studio ?

DKSG

[Ringo33]

If Belle Vue studio is $1550 and Jurong studio is $1,700, I think not only the person looking into the mirror should slap themselve to see if it is real, they better ask their whole family to ham tam them until their faint.

Ask EVERYONE in this forum - if Belle Vue studio is at $1550, will you still pay $1,700 for Jurong studio ?

DKSG

In your arguement or justification, size was never a considering, so lets keep it consistent and dont introduce the word Belle Vue STUDIO into our discussion.

According to you, the further the property is location from city, the property should worth lesser, so for Trizon how can you say its a good or value buy when its located so far from Orchard (Dover MRT), and Orchard road apartment (brand new like Trizon - apple to apple) is selling at $1550psf.

You dont sound very consistent if your argument leh.

[Ringo33]

DKSG, this is what you wrote, dont say I put words in your mouth

For Jurong to be $1,700, Clementi has to be $1,900, Bouna Vista will then be $2,100, Queenstown $2,300 and Redhill about $2,600 (that you are correct), Lower Delta will then be $$2,800 and Kim Seng Road FH will then be $3,400, River Valley FH will then hit $$3,800 and UP 99LH will be $3,500, Scotts Tower will then be $4,500.

Once you see these prices along the way, then YES! Jurong will be worth $1,700.DKSG

So if Orchard apartment is currently selling at $1550psf, then how you justify Trizon as good value at $1770psf?

dont you think it should be $0psf base on your projection to work backward?

something not right leh. Can enlighten us?

[Regulators]

MCL is smart enough to get people like u on the hook coz u can only afford a dog box. If they sell u a 700sqft one bedder at j gateway at $1700psf, can u afford ? They keep it at 17xxpsf but shrink the size down to 474sqft which gv u the impression that it is a gd buy based on quantum so u bite. Belle vue is out of ur league coz even if u hv two lifetimes on earth u will still not be able to afford so no point for u to even bring it up.

DKSG, this is what you wrote, dont say I put words in your mouth



So if Orchard apartment is currently selling at $1550psf, then how you justify Trizon as good value at $1770psf?

dont you think it should be $0psf base on your projection to work backward?

something not right leh. Can enlighten us?

[Ringo33]

MCL is smart enough to get people like u on the hook coz u can only afford a dog box. If they sell u a 700sqft one bedder at j gateway at $1700psf, can u afford ? They keep it at 17xxpsf but shrink the size down to 474sqft which gv u the impression that it is a gd buy based on quantum so u bite. Belle vue is out of ur league coz even if u hv two lifetimes on earth u will still not be able to afford so no point for u to even bring it up.

I tol you countless time I live in HDB liao, why must be so mean to tell me I cannot afford Belle Vue for 2 lifetimes.

Do you always go around looking for beggar and disable so that you can flash some 100 bills on their face and then walk away.

you are really a sad case, no wonder you need to vote for yourself.

[patricia]

Skewed?

Lets see,

1) You are cherry picking the high transacted price of a MICKEY MOUSE unit that is less than 500psf at J Gateway to use that as a basis to say JG is over priced

2) You then cherry pick the lowest price of a 11 year old The Sail project at $2000psf and use that as a basis to support your argument that J Gateway is overpriced, without mentioning that

a) The highest price for 1 bedder at the sail was around $3400psf and in April a unit was sold at $2900psf. 900psf or 45% higher than $2000psf.

b) You didnt mention that The Sail has got no MM apartment that is smaller than 500sqft as the average size of 1 bedder at the sail is around 644sqft or 30% bigger than the equivalent 1 bedder at the Sale.

c) The average quantum of The Sail is 1.4m vs say 800K at J Gatewat. 75% more expensive

3) Now you are pulling out Ascentia Sky as comparison when we all know that the smallest size for this recent TOP project is around 947sqft or double the size of 1 bedder at J Gateway.

4) While talking about Ascentia Sky, you conveniently ignore to mention about the $2400psf price at Echelon which is right next to Ascentia Sky?

Honestly if your intention is to try to talk down western property, you have done a terrible job and unknowingly unveiling your short sightedness and your tendency of sugar coating and manipulation data.

I am so glad that you are giving me this opportunity to expose this Office Crook who is going around telling lies.

Yes. You hit him right on the spot. He is a crook disguised as Office boy.

[Regulators]

Then why u mock belle vue being $15xxpsf in your posts? If u live in hdb flat, u should learn to be humble.

I tol you countless time I live in HDB liao, why must be so mean to tell me I cannot afford Belle Vue for 2 lifetimes.

Do you always go around looking for beggar and disable so that you can flash some 100 bills on their face and then walk away.

you are really a sad case, no wonder you need to vote for yourself.

[Ringo33]

Then why u mock belle vue being $15xxpsf in your posts? If u live in hdb flat, u should learn to be humble.

I think very soon, I will have to start asking you to read my signature.

[Secretariat]

In reality, every poster is correct in his/her view regarding the pricing and prospect of J Gateway.

If I try to explain what I meant, the simpliest example would be by using the US stock market. In every bull phase there, you would find a distinctive story (or theme) behind the bull run. In the 1980s prior to the 1987 crash, the story was junk bond, or the use of it in the M&A frenzy. In the 1997s prior to the dotcom crash, the story was the rise of Internet, online stores etc. After the dotcom crash, the story was housing boom leading to more junks like MBSs/CDOs, rating agencies that went sleeping etc, culminating in the falls of Bear Stearn, Lehman Brothers. And now, we have been seeing one of the greatest bond market rallies due to QEs, the yield-seeking frenzy etc.

So, in each of these bull markets, while all the ships in the sea of bulls rised together, unless you got onto the right kind of ship, the rate of return would be different from one to another.

For example, surely the rate of return of an investor boarding the dotcom ship was vastly higher than another investor who boarded, say, the consumer-goods ship, during the dotcom rally.

And so it would be the same for the current property bull market in Singapore. The story started with the savvy buying up the HDBs for the rental yield, and in doing so inflated the prices of HDBs, the quantum game that popularized the MMs etc. The developers caught the quantum game early and played along.

This is where the money has been flowing to, bypassing the prime developments in relative term. So, for investment it is never about prices but the direction of prices. And the rate of price growth is closely related to the intensity of where the money is flowing to.

Just my 2-cents thought.

Cheers!

[DKSG]

In your arguement or justification, size was never a considering, so lets keep it consistent and dont introduce the word Belle Vue STUDIO into our discussion.

According to you, the further the property is location from city, the property should worth lesser, so for Trizon how can you say its a good or value buy when its located so far from Orchard (Dover MRT), and Orchard road apartment (brand new like Trizon - apple to apple) is selling at $1550psf.

You dont sound very consistent if your argument leh.

Eeerrmmm ... you are the first person who brought up $1550 Belle Vue. So dont criticise others for continuing your example.

Property investment is about cherry picking. When you got the money to buy a property (say $2million budget), you get to cherry pick the best unit.

So comparing The Sail with Jurong is not inconsistent. These are real choices people make!

Anyway, my statement is : With $1700 psf budget (whatever size, say 500 sqft), you get to chooise between buying this or that.

Not sure I can make myself clear or not, but if you are familiar with the buying process, you wont argue about the cherry picking part.

We are not here to value properties, we are here to check out what is the next best buy so as to achieve prosperity and progress for ourselves!

DKSG

[DKSG]

DKSG, this is what you wrote, dont say I put words in your mouth



So if Orchard apartment is currently selling at $1550psf, then how you justify Trizon as good value at $1770psf?

dont you think it should be $0psf base on your projection to work backward?

something not right leh. Can enlighten us?

Put it this way, if we got the $6 mil budget, we will choose to buy a unit at Belle Vue for $1550 then 6 units of Jurong studio.

Got it ?

Anyway, as we speak, CCR prices is inching up minute by minute.

OCR prices will see a spike in June/July due to the Jurong condo. After that we can observe to see if it still continues going up.

DKSG

[Ringo33]

Eeerrmmm ... you are the first person who brought up $1550 Belle Vue. So dont criticise others for continuing your example.

Property investment is about cherry picking. When you got the money to buy a property (say $2million budget), you get to cherry pick the best unit.

So comparing The Sail with Jurong is not inconsistent. These are real choices people make!

Anyway, my statement is : With $1700 psf budget (whatever size, say 500 sqft), you get to chooise between buying this or that.

Not sure I can make myself clear or not, but if you are familiar with the buying process, you wont argue about the cherry picking part.

We are not here to value properties, we are here to check out what is the next best buy so as to achieve prosperity and progress for ourselves!

DKSG

you got it all wrong. Quoting Belle Vue is all about trying to follow your chain of thought, like the way your choose to compare J Gateway to Trizon or The Sail etc

So if you say Trizon located near Clementi is a good buy at $1770psf then wont Belle Vue at $1550psf be a even better buy because based one your psf/distant projection Belle Vue would be worth like $3500psf

[Ringo33]

Put it this way, if we got the $6 mil budget, we will choose to buy a unit at Belle Vue for $1550 then 6 units of Jurong studio.

Got it ?

Anyway, as we speak, CCR prices is inching up minute by minute.

OCR prices will see a spike in June/July due to the Jurong condo. After that we can observe to see if it still continues going up.

DKSG

When you were comparing J gateway 474sqft apartment to Trizon or the Sail, you mention nothing about unit SIZE.

And now that I brought up Belle Vue, you suddenly got interested about unit size and quantum.

I know there might be some idiots in this forum, but that doesnt mean should treat everyone as idiots

[princess_morbucks]

If Belle Vue studio is $1550 and Jurong studio is $1,700, I think not only the person looking into the mirror should slap themselve to see if it is real, they better ask their whole family to ham tam them until their faint.

Ask EVERYONE in this forum - if Belle Vue studio is at $1550, will you still pay $1,700 for Jurong studio ?

DKSG

I agree with office boy on this one.
I will choose Belle Vue without the slightest doubt in this case.
No matter how I love Jurong and see its potential, I have to be rational.

[Ringo33]

I agree with office boy on this one.
I will choose Belle Vue without the slightest doubt in this case.
No matter how I love Jurong and see its potential, I have to be rational.

Dont let office crook confuse you, there is no such thing as a Belle Vue Residence S-T-U-D-I-O.

he just made that up to make J Gateway sound more expensive.

[Ringo33]

New record price for Worst Street 3 bedder.

2013-07-08 Resale 1,066sqft, 1,314psf

[DKSG]

Dont let office crook confuse you, there is no such thing as a Belle Vue Residence S-T-U-D-I-O.

he just made that up to make J Gateway sound more expensive.

If you have the budget of $6 mil, would you choose to buy a unit of Belle Vue at $1550 psf OR 6 units of Jurong studio ?

That is the question!

Give Office Boy sometime, I will find a size comparable FH studio unit for you to consider. Now need to deliver some documents for my Boss.

DKSG

[princess_morbucks]

Dont let office crook confuse you, there is no such thing as a Belle Vue Residence S-T-U-D-I-O.

he just made that up to make J Gateway sound more expensive.

Yup, I know lah.
Belle Vue all big big ones.
Office Boy is just trying to make a point that it is likely mass hysteria that cause the price in J Gateway to be high and yet be oversubscribed.

[Ringo33]

If you have the budget of $6 mil, would you choose to buy a unit of Belle Vue at $1550 psf OR 6 units of Jurong studio ?

That is the question!

Give Office Boy sometime, I will find a size comparable FH studio unit for you to consider. Now need to deliver some documents for my Boss.

DKSG

Thats a very cheap attempt to divert this discussion into a nonsensical hypothetical question.

what I am asking you is.

if you say Trizon which is located near Clementi is a good buy at $1770psf then wont Belle Vue at $1550psf be a even better buy? How can you explain why you said its a good buy? You mean you didnt consider Belle Vue?

And based one your psf/distant projection why is Belle Vue not worth like $3500psf?

[Regulators]

Look at this $8xxpsf five bedroom freehold at Siglap 33 cluster housing:

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listi...siglap-hill-33

This 3700+sqft unit is about 8 times the size of Ringo33's 474sqft one bedder in jurong n only 3 over times the price of a j gateway one bedder. As for location, I think everyone know whether Siglap is more posh or jurong.

[Ringo33]

Yup, I know lah.
Belle Vue all big big ones.
Office Boy is just trying to make a point that it is likely mass hysteria that cause the price in J Gateway to be high and yet be oversubscribed.

Office crook is indirectly trying to use quantum to hint that Belle Vue are large unit so cannot compare to Trizon 1000+sqft, but he dare not say that because he has been quietly using large units with larger quantum from Trizon and the Sail to compare with J Gateway 474sqft apartment.

[heehee]

Wow! The Centris $1314 psf is much cheaper than J Gateway $1700 psf!
So either The Centris is under-valued at $1314 psf or J Gateway is way over-valued at $1700 psf?
So which is true? Regardless of which ever is true, seems like J Gateway upside limited.

New record price for Worst Street 3 bedder.

2013-07-08 Resale 1,066sqft, 1,314psf