I have a feeling of being cheated

[irisng]

Can anyone enlighten me so that I can set my mind in peace.

Example 1:
Bought $10k unit trust from the banker and he promised to charge me $350 for the sales charge and when received the confirmation notice from the bank, it was indeed $350 sales charge.

Calc:
$10,000 x 5% = $500 (sales charge before discount)
Discount (1.5%) = $150 ($10,000 x 1.5%)
= $350 (sales charge after discount)

Example2:
Bought $12k unit trust from another banker and he promised to charge me $320 for the sales charge but when received the confirmation notice from the bank, the sales charge was $384.

Calc:
$12,000 x 5% = $600 (sales charge before discount)
Discount (1.8%) = $216 ($12,000 x 1.8%)
= $384 (sales charge after discount)

Is that how the bank calculates the sales charge? If that's the case, the banker shouldn't tell the customer that the sales charge is $320 only, very misleading for new investors.

[minority]

either way u will feel cheated. Coz by from poems are lower. why go buy from banks.

also why unit trust not ETF? cost even more lower.

[ikan bilis]

lucky me never buy unit trust.... buying the time pay extra 5%,... selling the time pay another extra 5%.... like that i will feel even more cheated and prefer to pay govt 10% absd for 3rd property liow...

[buttercarp]

Hi iris.... u can buy online leh.....

Commission is less.

http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/NR/rdonlyres...16/0/BuyUT.pdf

[zeamybro]

Sis.... sorry i didnt get the full picture, but did you verify with your banker why the difference?

Anyway, i feel the difference in admin charges is rather small lah compared with your 5-figure sum worth of investment. Dont think too much and get upset over it, ok?

For all you know, your returns in time to come may well cover all these admin charges .....

[leesg123]

Unit trust is the worst investment of all. no matter what market condition, the fund mgr always win.

[Hiroaki27]

Sis.... sorry i didnt get the full picture, but did you verify with your banker why the difference?

Anyway, i feel the difference in admin charges is rather small lah compared with your 5-figure sum worth of investment. Dont think too much and get upset over it, ok?

For all you know, your returns in time to come may well cover all these admin charges .....

actually it is matter of principle, regardless of the sum. if it is understood and agreed before, even 1 cent more is still as hidden charge. if the banker failed to explain the charges well, don't think he/she is fit for the job. sis is doing us a service by bringing this up to improve the professionalism of banking sector

[teddybear]

Sorry to hear that. Actually you shouldn't be too concern over it, wait till you hear the truth - the truth is, the Fund charge you much more than what the banker charge you, and do that every year. You will end up the biggest loser. So heed my advice, avoid UTs.

Can anyone enlighten me so that I can set my mind in peace.

Example 1:
Bought $10k unit trust from the banker and he promised to charge me $350 for the sales charge and when received the confirmation notice from the bank, it was indeed $350 sales charge.

Calc:
$10,000 x 5% = $500 (sales charge before discount)
Discount (1.5%) = $150 ($10,000 x 1.5%)
= $350 (sales charge after discount)

Example2:
Bought $12k unit trust from another banker and he promised to charge me $320 for the sales charge but when received the confirmation notice from the bank, the sales charge was $384.

Calc:
$12,000 x 5% = $600 (sales charge before discount)
Discount (1.8%) = $216 ($12,000 x 1.8%)
= $384 (sales charge after discount)

Is that how the bank calculates the sales charge? If that's the case, the banker shouldn't tell the customer that the sales charge is $320 only, very misleading for new investors.

[buttercarp]

Sorry to hear that. Actually you shouldn't be too concern over it, wait till you hear the truth - the truth is, the Fund charge you much more than what the banker charge you, and do that every year. You will end up the biggest loser. So heed my advice, avoid UTs.

Really?
That bad?
Then why do people still invest in UT?

[teddybear]

Unit Trusts, as the name implies, are only for 2 groups of people:
1) People who are not investment saavy.
2) People who don't have the resources and hence have to buy in small "units".

Really?
That bad?
Then why do people still invest in UT?

[irisng]

lucky me never buy unit trust.... buying the time pay extra 5%,... selling the time pay another extra 5%.... like that i will feel even more cheated and prefer to pay govt 10% absd for 3rd property liow...

This fund that I bought only need to pay sales charge when buying, no sales charge when selling.

actually it is matter of principle, regardless of the sum. if it is understood and agreed before, even 1 cent more is still as hidden charge. if the banker failed to explain the charges well, don't think he/she is fit for the job. sis is doing us a service by bringing this up to improve the professionalism of banking sector

.

Ya, it is a matter of principle. At least the banker should make clear to me.
I called him up to clarify but never get the satisfactory answer. I told him that at least he should make clear to me so that I'm aware of it.

[cbsh38584]

Really?
That bad?
Then why do people still invest in UT?

My friend invested S$5000 in Schrode Asian growth Fund in PEAK PERIOD 1996 [email protected]. She did not monitor at all she is very busy with her biz. In 2007 (11 years later) , she came to know that her $5000 investment has become >$20k. She just sold b4 the Lehman crisis.

The fund has almost recovered from it pre lehman price. This fund has gone through the up & down , the worst Asia financial crisis, Sep11 , Iraq war .Sar , Lehman crisis etc etc. Yet it manage to perform 9% return since it was launched in 1991 till 2012.

So unit trust has it good side of investment. But pls buy online as the sale charge is 0.5% to 1%. Another good fund is S'pore managed fund by Prudential & Aberdeen pacific fund.

rdgs,
Vic

[irisng]

Sorry to hear that. Actually you shouldn't be too concern over it, wait till you hear the truth - the truth is, the Fund charge you much more than what the banker charge you, and do that every year. You will end up the biggest loser. So heed my advice, avoid UTs.

But I do make some money from the fund that I bought within 1 yr (about 6.7%) after offseting the sales charge.

[irisng]

My friend invested S$5000 in Schrode Asian growth Fund in PEAK PERIOD 1996 [email protected]. She did not monitor at all she is very busy with her biz. In 2007 (11 years later) , she came to know that her $5000 investment has become >$20k. She just sold b4 the Lehman crisis.

The fund has almost recovered from it pre lehman price. This fund has gone through the up & down , the worst Asia financial crisis, Sep11 , Iraq war .Sar , Lehman crisis etc etc. Yet it manage to perform 9% return since it was launched in 1991 till 2012.

So unit trust has it good side of investment. But pls buy online as the sale charge is 0.5% to 1%. Another good fund is S'pore managed fund by Prudential & Aberdeen pacific fund.

rdgs,
Vic

Thank you for your tips. Your friend is very lucky to sell before the Lehman crisis. Never buy funds online before. Most of the time, is recommended by the banker.

Another banker recommended me the Schroder Asian Income SGD Class fund, dividend 8%, don't know good or not? Any advise? This fund was launched on 01/09/2011.

[Rosy]

Thank you for your tips. Your friend is very lucky to sell before the Lehman crisis. Never buy funds online before. Most of the time, is recommended by the banker.

Another banker recommended me the Schroder Asian Income SGD Class fund, dividend 8%, don't know good or not? Any advise? This fund was launched on 01/09/2011.

Based on past year dividend history, the yield is about 5.5-6% on current price.

I often use this website for info.
http://www.fundsupermart.com/main/home/index.svdo

[teddybear]

Let's say it is this way, funds invest into equities. Management fees could be as high as 3%, not including trading fees etc (which previously was reported they can receive kick back etc). So, actual costs of investing in UTs vs buying the stocks on your own could be as high as 4-5%, excluding the sales charges. And there may also be another bank custodian fees of 1%, so if the fund pay you 6.7%, and assuming instead of buying fund you buy directly, your return could be 6.7% +3% (sales charge) + 5% (all other related costs) = 14.7% !

But I do make some money from the fund that I bought within 1 yr (about 6.7%) after offseting the sales charge.

[cbsh38584]

Thank you for your tips. Your friend is very lucky to sell before the Lehman crisis. Never buy funds online before. Most of the time, is recommended by the banker.

Another banker recommended me the Schroder Asian Income SGD Class fund, dividend 8%, don't know good or not? Any advise? This fund was launched on 01/09/2011.

This fund is a mixture of high yield bond + dividend stock. It has performed well in a low interest rate enviroment. In fact, all bond fund & dividend fund have performed very well due to low interest rate envionment.

If U are a very patient investor. There will be a big correction every 1-2 times very year & big crashes every few years. Buy when there is fear & the "FEAR price" is to protect your downside . It is to reduce losses in the case of a decline in the value of your unit trust or stock.

My friend lost >$1m investing herself. Her mistakes is just like us. Buy when there is optimism & sell when there is fear. Buy base on HOPE , GREED , HEARSAY, remour & speculative stock etc. I hv learnt from my mistakes.

PATIENCE = Profit. Say is easy. To execute is not easy. So I leave to you how to manage your emotional trading behaviour.

rdgs,
Vic

[ecimbew]

I bought unit trust through my agent too and that's because I am too lazy to do research and monitor. Every time I met him, he told me he had upgraded his car to some exotic brand, bought more properties and set up more businesses. I guess he is doing externally well. I stopped giving him angbao too and withdrew my profits before Lehman crisis.

[buttercarp]

My friend invested S$5000 in Schrode Asian growth Fund in PEAK PERIOD 1996 [email protected]. She did not monitor at all she is very busy with her biz. In 2007 (11 years later) , she came to know that her $5000 investment has become >$20k. She just sold b4 the Lehman crisis.

The fund has almost recovered from it pre lehman price. This fund has gone through the up & down , the worst Asia financial crisis, Sep11 , Iraq war .Sar , Lehman crisis etc etc. Yet it manage to perform 9% return since it was launched in 1991 till 2012.

So unit trust has it good side of investment. But pls buy online as the sale charge is 0.5% to 1%. Another good fund is S'pore managed fund by Prudential & Aberdeen pacific fund.

rdgs,
Vic

Thanks vic for enlightening me !
I have unit trusts with Prudential.
I really don't have any idea as it was bought as an ILP many years ago.
Yes, according to my hubby who bought this product for me, it is doing well.

[ommmm]

Banks are paranoid about customer complaints these days (regulator scrutinizes quite hard on this), so try it if you have some evidence of mis-selling/representing etc. that is, tell them you want to file a formal complain - not just giving their poor call centre staff a grief of your bad experience.

UT works well for me too, and you can try to negotiate upfront sales and ongoing charges with your brokers. Bankers are less compromising unless you are at least affluent, but then there're enough competitors who will want your business.

[Komo]

unit Trusts are cheats in the first place

Can anyone enlighten me so that I can set my mind in peace.

Example 1:
Bought $10k unit trust from the banker and he promised to charge me $350 for the sales charge and when received the confirmation notice from the bank, it was indeed $350 sales charge.

Calc:
$10,000 x 5% = $500 (sales charge before discount)
Discount (1.5%) = $150 ($10,000 x 1.5%)
= $350 (sales charge after discount)

Example2:
Bought $12k unit trust from another banker and he promised to charge me $320 for the sales charge but when received the confirmation notice from the bank, the sales charge was $384.

Calc:
$12,000 x 5% = $600 (sales charge before discount)
Discount (1.8%) = $216 ($12,000 x 1.8%)
= $384 (sales charge after discount)

Is that how the bank calculates the sales charge? If that's the case, the banker shouldn't tell the customer that the sales charge is $320 only, very misleading for new investors.

[eng81157]

unit Trusts are cheats in the first place

totally agree.

earn profit, fund managers get paid bonuses
funds lose money, fund managers don't lose anything personally but still get paid

[p3nboy]

OMG, people still buy unit trust? what are they thinking?

[buttercarp]

totally agree.

earn profit, fund managers get paid bonuses
funds lose money, fund managers don't lose anything personally but still get paid

Seems like fund manager get the best of both worlds!
Any idea how to become one ?

[Shanhz]

it is better to buy from fundsupermart. do some research, especially the sections on RSP - where they have a list of recommended funds which have 0% sales charge or 0.5% sales charge, which is very low. Also watch out for the section on recommended funds and recommended portfolio, where they list out 5 portfolios (from high risk to low risk) and tracks performance over many years.

although i agree that these funds do not give the best returns, it is a good option for investments in the tune of few thousands or few tens of thousands. for those who throw 6 digits a hand, then they have more exotic sources of income.

i have a portfolio of investment, and one group i just do monthly regular savings and follow their recommended portfolio, with some minor fine tuning based on personal risk and preference. the monthly regular savings is to force myself to save during ups and downs and average out. otherwise i will end up selling in panic or buying during highs.

end of each year, i will re-balance my portfolio, which consists of 50% equity, 20% commodities, and the remaining in a mix of high risk and low risk bonds.

for me, this is more of a disciplined approach to investment, and i dun mind that it may not give me the best of returns. i do not have any ILPs because i find that i get better returns myself.

[chiaberry]

I'm OK with unit trusts too. I have had them in my Special Acct and they have beaten the 4% pa interest rate of the SA. However, with the recent volatility in the markets, they have been switched into the SGD Money Market Fund which has also done quite well.

Those funds in other markets also allow you to diversify your portfolio. For example in emerging markets, commodities or whatever.

For those who keep a fairly large amount in UT and switch around between different funds to rebalance the portfolio periodically, you can consider the Navigator platform from Aviva which offers switching free of charge. There are regular fees to be paid on this for the financial advisor but you can negotiate with the FA regarding this. Some FAs can be helpful in advising when to switch by looking at the charts. This is a service which you have to pay for but if they do their job well, I don't mind paying.

It's down to personal preference.

[teddybear]

Fundsupermart used to be good until they start charging for platform fees (or custodian fees) on top of the sales charges.
Does Aviva's Navigator charge custodian fees?

it is better to buy from fundsupermart. do some research, especially the sections on RSP - where they have a list of recommended funds which have 0% sales charge or 0.5% sales charge, which is very low. Also watch out for the section on recommended funds and recommended portfolio, where they list out 5 portfolios (from high risk to low risk) and tracks performance over many years.

although i agree that these funds do not give the best returns, it is a good option for investments in the tune of few thousands or few tens of thousands. for those who throw 6 digits a hand, then they have more exotic sources of income.

i have a portfolio of investment, and one group i just do monthly regular savings and follow their recommended portfolio, with some minor fine tuning based on personal risk and preference. the monthly regular savings is to force myself to save during ups and downs and average out. otherwise i will end up selling in panic or buying during highs.

end of each year, i will re-balance my portfolio, which consists of 50% equity, 20% commodities, and the remaining in a mix of high risk and low risk bonds.

for me, this is more of a disciplined approach to investment, and i dun mind that it may not give me the best of returns. i do not have any ILPs because i find that i get better returns myself.

[irisng]

Banks are paranoid about customer complaints these days (regulator scrutinizes quite hard on this), so try it if you have some evidence of mis-selling/representing etc. that is, tell them you want to file a formal complain - not just giving their poor call centre staff a grief of your bad experience.

UT works well for me too, and you can try to negotiate upfront sales and ongoing charges with your brokers. Bankers are less compromising unless you are at least affluent, but then there're enough competitors who will want your business.

Actually I called up the hotline and wanted to get an explanation from another banker for my case (it is not the sales charge difference that counts, but simply feel very unhappy) but the operator told me that she would get the banker who served me to call me back, so why not I called direct to him. Felt that this banker is not honest, wrote my risk profile as "Aggressive", which I told him that I'm not, mine only "moderate" but he said never mind. Does this matter?

Never expect my thread can be so fruitful, thought that I will just get some response as to the sales charge calc. Happy to see so many contribution about individuals experience and advice and tips from the experts, it not only benefit me but also to other forummers.

[minority]

Fundsupermart used to be good until they start charging for platform fees (or custodian fees) on top of the sales charges.
Does Aviva's Navigator charge custodian fees?

goes for poems. dont charge platform fees and lowest sales charges

[hopeful]

Felt that this banker is not honest, wrote my risk profile as "Aggressive", which I told him that I'm not, mine only "moderate" but he said never mind. Does this matter?

Yes it matters. If you say ypu are agressive, more likely any losses you bear urself.
Now if you say you are unsophisticated investor, no degree uneducated investor , for cases like minibonds, your compensation would be higher than sophisticated investor.
So each time, i would declare myself new to investment, no degree only diploma holder, not a risk taker etc.

Quick, change ur profile to nmoderate.