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Thread: Employment: attitude vs performance

  1. #1
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    Default Employment: attitude vs performance

    Which one do you all think is important?

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    Quote Originally Posted by irisng
    Which one do you all think is important?
    having a good attitude to learn the ropes and to help the company achieves its best will naturally lead to a good performance.

    having a positive attitude will also create a positive energy in the office and increase the effectiveness of the co-workers

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    Depends on which industry. Most industries prefer employee with good attitude. However, some companies which are so profit driven and super high turn over rates only require people who come and give a good performance and bring in the profit than say bye bye... no feelings de...

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    hard to choose

    if know how to carry balls but don't know how to generate profit for company..
    really useless
    I took the road less traveled by, and that has made all the difference. - Robert Frost quotes (American poet, 1874-1963)

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    why choose? get someone who has both! plenty of hungry job seekers around

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcmlxxvi
    why choose? get someone who has both! plenty of hungry job seekers around
    In large corp, this group climb... But does it go against your principle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chestnut
    In large corp, this group climb... But does it go against your principle.
    Very few senior leaders with vision, capability, drive and take care of subordinates welfare and development. Very few. Not say don't have but very few. My one hand can more than enough to count in a decade in corporate world.

    It's easy for middle/low level managers like us to criticize. But when in their positions, kena left right center below and above, it's really a huge challenge to maintain order in the house.

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    depends on times too; in good time ppl who make $$$ even with bad attitude will b tolerated, in bad times when they are not bringing in the $$$, they r also 1st to b let go
    if you dont't own any property, you're short. take cover quickly

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    decent combi of both. good talent with no integrity, sooner or later kenah sabo by him.

    good integrity, no talent.. no use unless his job is guard the gold bar.

    perhaps blue collar job attitude more impt. white collar job talent more impt. but have to balance

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    Everybody does have a point. To me, I will think that good attitudes will more or less contribute to good performance and will have harmony working environment but good performance will not necessary have good attitudes. Of course if have both will be much better lor.

    Quote Originally Posted by ysyap
    some companies which are so profit driven and super high turn over rates only require people who come and give a good performance and bring in the profit than say bye bye... no feelings de...
    That I strongly agree .

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    The two dimensions cannot be compared

    Performance is a result whereas Attitude is a quality or a virtue.

    What I think you really mean is Competence and Attitude.... which are both qualities.

    What any employer wants is Performance. And Performance can be achieved through various other qualities (including Eloquence, Loyalty, Intelligence, Physical Attractiveness.....etc).

    Usually a mix of qualities is desired. Depending on the job, one quality may be desired over another. Usually, Competence and Intelligence weighs heavily and gets a person through the first round. That is why no matter what people say, the piece of toilet paper some people call a degree is still very important.

    Once a person is hired, his performance is evaluated. A totally incompetent person no matter how good an attitude will produce poor performance. It all depends on what the job calls for

    For example.... if you have a critical surgery that can potentially kill you... would you rather your surgeon be highly Competent with an average Attitude or mediocrely Competent with a good attitude.

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    Quote Originally Posted by howgozit
    For example.... if you have a critical surgery that can potentially kill you... would you rather your surgeon be highly Competent with an average Attitude or mediocrely Competent with a good attitude.
    You do have a point also especially on the surgery case. Still it has to depend on the scope of the jobs. Certain jobs require good attitudes while certain jobs require good performance. I would think that public service line (not referring to servicing of computers etc, all these require good skills) require good attitude though their performance is so so.

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    While I was ironing my clothing, something strikes my mind, jialat liao, so addicted to this forum.

    If come to year end appraisal, will you all base on attitude or performance for the following cases:-
    1) If a technician with good skill but poor attitude always give black face to his supervisor when he is given a task to perform.
    2) When a salesman always kena get complain from his customers for being rude and impatient and yet he can sell his products
    3) When a salesman who can sell his products but always eat "snake", most of time try to push his responsibility to his colleagues and yet he has the time to go and drink coffee or play poker with his outside friends during office hours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by irisng
    You do have a point also especially on the surgery case. Still it has to depend on the scope of the jobs. Certain jobs require good attitudes while certain jobs require good performance. I would think that public service line (not referring to servicing of computers etc, all these require good skills) require good attitude though their performance is so so.
    Not true.

    http://www.soshiok.com/multimedia/photos/1523

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    Performance is the output.

    Attitude (and Competence) is the input.

    What is measured is the Performance. If you are in sales, Performance is measured by the volumes of sales. That is the result of the correct combination of Attitude and Competence input (among other qualities)

    Attitude can be admired and desired but cannot be measured.


    Quote Originally Posted by irisng
    While I was ironing my clothing, something strikes my mind, jialat liao, so addicted to this forum.

    If come to year end appraisal, will you all base on attitude or performance for the following cases:-
    1) If a technician with good skill but poor attitude always give black face to his supervisor when he is given a task to perform.
    2) When a salesman always kena get complain from his customers for being rude and impatient and yet he can sell his products
    3) When a salesman who can sell his products but always eat "snake", most of time try to push his responsibility to his colleagues and yet he has the time to go and drink coffee or play poker with his outside friends during office hours.

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    My point of view in red

    Cheers!
    Quote Originally Posted by irisng
    If come to year end appraisal, will you all base on attitude or performance for the following cases:-
    1) If a technician with good skill but poor attitude always give black face to his supervisor when he is given a task to perform.
    What is the use of a smiling technician who can't do the job?

    2) When a salesman always kena get complain from his customers for being rude and impatient and yet he can sell his products
    From the employer's point of view, this saleman is an ace salesman. Despite the complaints, people are still buying from him. Is he just lucky or does he have a special skill?

    Would I prefer him to be more polite... of course. But if you as a boss is forced to choose between a person who meets sales target and one who misses the targets... who would you choose? Be honest

    3) When a salesman who can sell his products but always eat "snake", most of time try to push his responsibility to his colleagues and yet he has the time to go and drink coffee or play poker with his outside friends during office hours.
    If the Attitude of the salesman has an adverse effect on the Performance on his colleagues, the overall Performance of the team and therefore the company is diminished. He will rank lowly under another dimension, the quality of a Team Player.

    But ultimately it is still about Performance... if not his own, then the company's

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    About the team player... there is a joke amongst ex colleagues.

    It's the person who plays the team members. LOL

    Gets them twisted around little finger, like.

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    ...........

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    I had a bad experience with one of the local bank teller many years back. My company used to apply telegrahic transfer from our company banks. Normally I would just hand the copies of the TT to the teller/officer without queuing and would collect tomorrow. I had been doing this to different banks also, no problem. But somehow don't know what happened to the branch on that day, the teller told me to queue up, no more handing of TT over the counter direct, so I queued up and waited for 1 hour. When it was my turn, I handed the 5 sets of TT copies to the teller and told her that I go for my lunch first, then come back and collect later but she said cannot, I had to stand at the counter and wait, if not the officer will think that she didn't serve any customer . So I waited for another 1 hour at the counter for her to complete all my TT, altogether I wasted 2 hours. I asked the officer about it and she said the rule had changed. I thought that this would be the normal practice from that day onwards but it was not, other banks including this bank (but different branch) still allowed me to hand the TT copies direct to the counter/officer without queuing and can collect tomorrow. I made a complain to their Head Office and she said she would look into it. From then on, I would never step into this branch anymore.

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    In summary........
    Front line staff and those in service industry- attitude is very important cos their attitude is their performance.
    The job which requires skill - performance is more important than attitude.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buttercarp
    In summary........
    Front line staff and those in service industry- attitude is very important cos their attitude is their performance.
    The job which requires skill - performance is more important than attitude.
    Well said.

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    If you find a high performer with a bad attitude to you, he is just trying to say one little thing:
    Are you a competent manager?

    Cheers!
    Richard

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    I think sometimes internal management also plays a part. If you can handle the staff well, everybody will work happily and naturally will have better attitudes in terms of creating harmony in the surroundings as well as have passion in their work, thus will increase in performance. Moral is very important in a company.

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    May I know if you clasiify the case you stated below as one of competence or attitude.

    Clearly her performance is below standard. There can be 3 reasons.

    1. She is incompetent - she does not know what the correct procedure is.

    or

    2. She has a bad attitude - she does know the correct procedure but for some reason does not want to serve you efficiently.

    or

    3. She is incompetent and has a bad attitude - a combination of the above two.

    Again I emphasise, performance is the output. The service you received was is result(output) of her qualities.

    Quote Originally Posted by irisng
    I had a bad experience with one of the local bank teller many years back. My company used to apply telegrahic transfer from our company banks. Normally I would just hand the copies of the TT to the teller/officer without queuing and would collect tomorrow. I had been doing this to different banks also, no problem. But somehow don't know what happened to the branch on that day, the teller told me to queue up, no more handing of TT over the counter direct, so I queued up and waited for 1 hour. When it was my turn, I handed the 5 sets of TT copies to the teller and told her that I go for my lunch first, then come back and collect later but she said cannot, I had to stand at the counter and wait, if not the officer will think that she didn't serve any customer . So I waited for another 1 hour at the counter for her to complete all my TT, altogether I wasted 2 hours. I asked the officer about it and she said the rule had changed. I thought that this would be the normal practice from that day onwards but it was not, other banks including this bank (but different branch) still allowed me to hand the TT copies direct to the counter/officer without queuing and can collect tomorrow. I made a complain to their Head Office and she said she would look into it. From then on, I would never step into this branch anymore.

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    You are probably not.

    Some self-reflection is required.

    Btw, poor performers can have bad attitude too.

    Your performance as a manager is questionable.

    Quote Originally Posted by richwang
    If you find a high performer with a bad attitude to you, he is just trying to say one little thing:
    Are you a competent manager?

    Cheers!
    Richard

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    Quote Originally Posted by howgozit
    May I know if you clasiify the case you stated below as one of competence or attitude.

    Clearly her performance is below standard. There can be 3 reasons.

    1. She is incompetent - she does not know what the correct procedure is.

    or

    2. She has a bad attitude - she does know the correct procedure but for some reason does not want to serve you efficiently.

    or

    3. She is incompetent and has a bad attitude - a combination of the above two.

    Again I emphasise, performance is the output. The service you received was is result(output) of her qualities.
    I think it had nothing to do with the teller attitude or performance, she just carried out instructions, it was the rule set out by this branch. I had checked with the branch officer on the same day and she said this was their new rule but I was very puzzled, isn't the rule supposed to set by the Head Office and not the branch itself. All branches should have the same set of rule, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by richwang
    If you find a high performer with a bad attitude to you, he is just trying to say one little thing:
    Are you a competent manager?

    Cheers!
    Richard
    一山还有一山高. I would say that this high performer staff is too arrogant,
    看不起人. No matter how, he is still his senior, need to show some respect lah. How would this high performer staff feel if somebody who can do better than him gives him the same treatment?

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    Quote Originally Posted by howgozit
    You are probably not.

    Some self-reflection is required.

    Btw, poor performers can have bad attitude too.

    Your performance as a manager is questionable.
    You are right, poor performers can have bad attitude too.
    Good performers can also have good attitude.
    Good performers with good attitude will receive more respect.
    Good performers with poor attitude might end up somewhere else when the company can find a better one to replace him.

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    If you set up a company and employ someone who is competence but poor attitude. Everyday argue with you. Will you be able to tolerate and still accept this type of staff?

    I wonder what the company will base on when come to retrenchment?

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    The appraisal will consider the particular employee's cohesiveness and ability to work with his peers, subordinates and superiors.

    If I am his boss and its my own company... clearly this employee that argues with me everyday has displayed an inability to work with me, his superior. He will fare poorly in his appraisal despite he being technically competent. Thus this appraisal will affect his promotion prospects. His behaviour must be counselled.

    If his disagreements with me are irreconcilable, he has possibly become an ineffective employee. Because as a boss I may not be able to subject him to my instruction.

    However, sacking an employee is another matter altogether. It affects his livelihood and that of his dependants. It has to be seriously considered.

    Quote Originally Posted by irisng
    If you set up a company and employ someone who is competence but poor attitude. Everyday argue with you. Will you be able to tolerate and still accept this type of staff?

    I wonder what the company will base on when come to retrenchment?
    Last edited by howgozit; 17-12-12 at 00:15.

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