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Thread: Can two separate housing markets work? - Proposed by SDP

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    Default Can two separate housing markets work? - Proposed by SDP

    The Singapore Democratic Party has proposed the creation of two separate housing markets to keep property prices in check while increasing the supply of cheaper flats.

    During a press conference at the Quality Hotel at Balestier on Sunday, SDP secretary-general Dr Chee Soon Juan launched the party’s 37-page housing manifesto, the result of “months of intense study and debate”. Criticising the current housing policy as a “huge profit-making enterprise”, he said the party’s newly proposed plan hopes to “fix the mess” created by previous housing ministers.

    Key to the plan is the introduction of a “Non-Open Market” (NOM) – which will see new public housing being built and sold by the HDB at far lower prices than the status quo. Homes built under this scheme can only be sold back to the HDB, preventing profiteering and thus keeping prices affordable.




    SDP's proposed housing prices under NOM

    SDP predicts that at these lower prices, housing loans will only take between 9-15 years to be repaid, freeing up cash and CPF for Singaporeans to pursue other business interests and investments rather than have their liquidity locked into their homes.

    The second market, the “Open Market”, will be where private housing and existing flats are bought and sold. “Open Market” home owners will be given the option to sell their homes back to the government, where they will be compensated.

    Their homes are then assimilated into the NOM scheme, give OM home owners the option of having access to their CPF savings locked up in housing loans -- something the SDP says will be necessary when Singapore’s baby boomer generation retires in 15 years and starts facing liquidity problems as some realize their nest eggs are not substantial enough to maintain a decent standard of living.
    Stabilising over inflated public housing prices

    Median resale prices

    With both markets present – the NOM there to gradually stabilise and correct over inflated property prices, and the OM there to ensure that there are no sudden drops in value or loss of savings for existing home owners -- the SDP believes that over time, property prices in Singapore will begin to return to normal, affordable rates.

    SDP’s housing panel also suggested the building up of “buffer housing” at hand to ensure that supply consistently meets demand – something they say is not happening under current housing policies as young couples postpone marriage and parenthood in the face of expensive and difficult to obtain Built-To-Order flats.

    Under the NOM and OM scheme, said panel member Jeremy Chen, a PhD student from NUS Business School's Department of Decision Studies, the significantly more affordable prices SDP proposes are possible because they do not intend to include what is called the “land cost” – explaining that since the government had already acquired over 80 per cent of Singapore’s land at historically low prices, it should not be factoring it into the cost of building public housing.

    “Costs should only include labour costs, material costs... public housing is a basic need, and a profit-seeking approach is unacceptable,” said Chen, showing statistics from government e-procurement portal GeBIZ revealing that the true cost of building works put forward by construction companies range between just $75,000 to $170,000 per unit.


    A sudden drop in supply led to a serious housing glut

    Under the NOM and OM scheme, said panel member Jeremy Chen, the significantly more affordable prices SDP proposes are possible because they do not intend to include what is called the “land cost” – explaining that since the government had already acquired over 80 per cent of Singapore’s land at historically low prices, it should not be factoring the cost into the cost of building public housing.

    “Costs should only include labour costs, material costs .. public housing is a basic need, and a profit seeking approach is unacceptable,” said Chen, showing statistics from GeBIZ revealing that the true cost of building works put forward by construction companies range between just $75,000 to $170,000 per unit.

    “Inclusive” policy – singles, single-parent families not forgotten


    SDP also touted its housing policy as being an “inclusive” one which does not discriminate against singles and elderly – two demographics they say fall through the cracks under the current policy.

    While priority will be given to families with children or expecting couples, singles will also be allowed under their plan to ballot for flats with everyone else – with restrictions placed only on the types of flats they are allowed to ballot for.

    Single-parent families with young children will also be given the same priority as families.

    For lower-income Singaporeans who do not have the means to pay for NOM flats, SDP proposes that they continue to rent from the HDB -- but with grants that are more calibrated towards low-wage workers.

    “I remember there was a case reported in the newspapers about an old lady who rejected a pay raise, because the raise would put her into a new income bracket where the rise in her monthly rent was more than her actual raise… that shouldn’t be the case,” said Mr Chen.

    SDP also proposed a change to HDB’s current Lease Buy Back (LBB) scheme, where elderly Singaporeans in need of income re-mortgage their flats for a sum of money for a limited lease.

    “Under SDP’s plan, senior citizens can convert their flats to the NOM scheme in return for an annuity to live on,” said Chen.

    This annuity will be based on a basket of goods and inflation-adjusted, which Chen said should represent a “dignified” standard of living.

    SDP’s annuity scheme, combined with the NOM scheme, which aims to increase retirement savings, will work to support existing needy elderly as well as reduce the number of Singaporeans who find themselves with not enough savings to retire.

  2. #2
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    Are we the "people" republic of singapore?

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    So this is creating a low class housing? who will be the people staying there?

    What will happen say in 30yrs later. ? have to sell back to government. Who pay? government? buy at ZERO dollar? those owners will cry foul?

    And when government buy back pay by tax payer dollars again? when the population is lesser who pay tax for government to buy back?

    Is this scheme utility model for housing? housing is utility zero cost in 70yrs time? Can people accept it?

    even if people accept it who would stay.? poorer family? so become grotto or Harlem of singapore?

    This scheme is nothing innovate or new. basically there are retirement home for old folks at 80K 30yr lease. allow current owner to sell their HDB in open market.

    the whole idea is not to tax the goverment too much coz its tax payer $. and let the open market support it.


    I have a interesting question to support this scheme how many current working singaporean willing to pay more tax? like the UK or US or australia? say 40%?

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    why is the housing topic keep appearing when more than 90% of the citizens r happy with HDB one way or another? should focus on the impt hard issue like how to keep and maintain the high employment rate of Singapreans?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allthepies
    why is the housing topic keep appearing when more than 90% of the citizens r happy with HDB one way or another? should focus on the impt hard issue like how to keep and maintain the high employment rate of Singapreans?
    Like !!

    The HDB system is so successful, ppl are now even taking it for granted and talking about "why must take 30y mortgage" !

    Our real problem is NOT housing !

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    Quote Originally Posted by amk
    Like !!

    The HDB system is so successful, ppl are now even taking it for granted and talking about "why must take 30y mortgage" !

    Our real problem is NOT housing !
    Bro, u are so much like someone I know, But I know u are not him. Actually, u have a higher calling leh. Serious !!!!!
    You should join the grassroots leaders. Bro, I am not mocking hor. Singapore really need people like u. U can contribute leh. Or maybe you already inside.

    Coming to the point of complaining and taking it for granted. Bro, for me, I don't blame them. I was once like that 20 years ago. Then when I travelled for biz, I begin to realize how fortunate I was. Then when I meet my friends and they complain, I told them my view and they whack me.

    It is difficult to visualize until u travel, then you can appreciate Singapore and what a wonderful job the govt has been doing - I speak for myself.



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    If you want to address low income Singaporeans, build rented flat dont need to go through the hassle of buy then sell back.

    if you want to make HDB affordable for first timer, provide more grant.

    anyway, this is a piece of waste paper, not worth discussing.

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    Don't think I will go for this because I like the idea of appreciating HDB prices. Those that buy HDB first hand are very likely to make profit, which is why it HDB only allow first hand purchase twice only, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo33
    If you want to address low income Singaporeans, build rented flat dont need to go through the hassle of buy then sell back.

    if you want to make HDB affordable for first timer, provide more grant.

    anyway, this is a piece of waste paper, not worth discussing.

    its to prey on the ignorant and sensationalize news. Just to stir up emotions. frankly its a waste of time to do this we have to pay more taxes or dip deeper into to reserves to sustain this.

    Going down this route many will regret.

    well Chee has always been dying to always dip into reserves.

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    SDP got the entire equation wrong. If the intention of HDB is to ensure cheap housing, then it would have been done long time ago.

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    thats why its call SDP.. Stupid Democratic Party... wat u expect when u have CHEE???

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    Quote Originally Posted by chestnut
    Bro, u are so much like someone I know, But I know u are not him. Actually, u have a higher calling leh. Serious !!!!!
    You should join the grassroots leaders. Bro, I am not mocking hor. Singapore really need people like u. U can contribute leh. Or maybe you already inside.

    Coming to the point of complaining and taking it for granted. Bro, for me, I don't blame them. I was once like that 20 years ago. Then when I travelled for biz, I begin to realize how fortunate I was. Then when I meet my friends and they complain, I told them my view and they whack me.

    It is difficult to visualize until u travel, then you can appreciate Singapore and what a wonderful job the govt has been doing - I speak for myself.


    I hated Singapore education long ago cos I quite during school days, things have changed now. A lot of people have 1 or 2 underlying issues that caused this mistrust. Can't really blame them if they didn't go out of sin or gain much from gov.

    I believe the root cause is still very much personal which a lot of people don't want to admit or talk about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smpeh
    I hated Singapore education long ago cos I quite during school days, things have changed now. A lot of people have 1 or 2 underlying issues that caused this mistrust. Can't really blame them if they didn't go out of sin or gain much from gov.

    I believe the root cause is still very much personal which a lot of people don't want to admit or talk about.
    Bro, I understand.... The rich poor divide is going to be wider.... The disparity will cause quite a fair bit of disharmony....
    So sad... But that is the price to pay with progression....
    The key is not to let yourself fall into that "poor" group... This is indeed sensitive topic I am discussing...
    You see, you need to make it happen, no one is going to help you, not the govt nor your boss nor your spouse... It is going to be yourself only...
    There are 2 things you can do :
    1. Embrace this and upgrade yourself to be better then the rest or
    2. Accept this and complain like crazy.
    I still take the 80/20 rule. 20 will fall in cat 1 and 80 will fall in cat 2.

    Thats why, 20% control the 80%. the rule of triangle or should I say hierarchy.

    In the animal kingdom, there is minimal emotion... Its just that we are humans with emo. So dont spend too much time on this area, find ways to achieve and be the top 20%. All efforts should go to that.
    Now adays, I avoid people who are negative and non-constructive. But if the person points out the fact and it so happens to be negative, I absorb and try to figure how to make the negative to be a positive to me.
    Example..
    If Singapore falls into recession - 2 ways to look at it :
    Bad or good??? Bad, because you have job instability. Good, if you dont need the job and you have cash to take advantage.
    I am not cursing, I am just saying, look at all situations and find opportunities. There will always be opportunity be it good or bad...

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    Quote Originally Posted by chestnut
    I avoid people who are negative and non-constructive. But if the person points out the fact and it so happens to be negative, I absorb and try to figure how to make the negative to be a positive to me.
    Example..
    If Singapore falls into recession - 2 ways to look at it :
    Bad or good??? Bad, because you have job instability. Good, if you dont need the job and you have cash to take advantage.
    I am not cursing, I am just saying, look at all situations and find opportunities. There will always be opportunity be it good or bad...
    At least for now we are on the same page.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeds
    At least for now we are on the same page.
    Leeds, I really dont need to be on the same page with anyone. We all have a right to an opinion.
    If you think prices will drop, it is really your opinion. If you think prices will rise, again, it is your opinion. If not we will be robots.
    I am not about to convince anyone to follow my views. This is a forum whereby we give our opinion and share. Not to "attack violently" the opinion.


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    IMO, the proposed scheme will only lead to social gap widening amongst all of us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chestnut
    Leeds, I really dont need to be on the same page with anyone. We all have a right to an opinion.
    If you think prices will drop, it is really your opinion. If you think prices will rise, again, it is your opinion. If not we will be robots.
    I am not about to convince anyone to follow my views. This is a forum whereby we give our opinion and share. Not to "attack violently" the opinion.

    You are wholly mistaken. It has nothing to do with market or prices. It is the philosophy of the subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by chestnut
    I avoid people who are negative and non-constructive. But if the person points out the fact and it so happens to be negative, I absorb and try to figure how to make the negative to be a positive to me.
    Example..
    If Singapore falls into recession - 2 ways to look at it :
    Bad or good??? Bad, because you have job instability. Good, if you dont need the job and you have cash to take advantage.
    I am not cursing, I am just saying, look at all situations and find opportunities. There will always be opportunity be it good or bad...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by chestnut
    Bro, I understand.... The rich poor divide is going to be wider.... The disparity will cause quite a fair bit of disharmony....
    So sad... But that is the price to pay with progression....
    The key is not to let yourself fall into that "poor" group... This is indeed sensitive topic I am discussing...
    You see, you need to make it happen, no one is going to help you, not the govt nor your boss nor your spouse... It is going to be yourself only...
    There are 2 things you can do :
    1. Embrace this and upgrade yourself to be better then the rest or
    2. Accept this and complain like crazy.
    I still take the 80/20 rule. 20 will fall in cat 1 and 80 will fall in cat 2.

    Thats why, 20% control the 80%. the rule of triangle or should I say hierarchy.

    In the animal kingdom, there is minimal emotion... Its just that we are humans with emo. So dont spend too much time on this area, find ways to achieve and be the top 20%. All efforts should go to that.
    Now adays, I avoid people who are negative and non-constructive. But if the person points out the fact and it so happens to be negative, I absorb and try to figure how to make the negative to be a positive to me.
    Example..
    If Singapore falls into recession - 2 ways to look at it :
    Bad or good??? Bad, because you have job instability. Good, if you dont need the job and you have cash to take advantage.
    I am not cursing, I am just saying, look at all situations and find opportunities. There will always be opportunity be it good or bad...

    agree.........

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DC33_2008
    IMO, the proposed scheme will only lead to social gap widening amongst all of us.

    Yes will have a underclass housing.. actually is demerit to the buyer they just cannot get out of the poor gap. This is no diff from permanently renting your home.

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    no brainer. U create a class like this, the poor will always be trapped.They cannot participate in the growth of the nation....

    In my humble opinion, HDB is the single inclusive policy which have brought wealth to 2 generations of normal Singaporeans whom have worked hard to bring us to where we are now.

    The current model works for me. New BTO is priced 20% cheaper than resale(market price). Heavy subsides to the poor group, help them with the DP and let the CPF pay for the installments.

    Have more funds for the ultra poor on housing and more $$$ set aside for education for their children so they can escape the "poverty trap".

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by chestnut
    Bro, I understand.... The rich poor divide is going to be wider.... The disparity will cause quite a fair bit of disharmony....
    So sad... But that is the price to pay with progression....
    The key is not to let yourself fall into that "poor" group... This is indeed sensitive topic I am discussing...
    You see, you need to make it happen, no one is going to help you, not the govt nor your boss nor your spouse... It is going to be yourself only...
    There are 2 things you can do :
    1. Embrace this and upgrade yourself to be better then the rest or
    2. Accept this and complain like crazy.
    I still take the 80/20 rule. 20 will fall in cat 1 and 80 will fall in cat 2.

    Thats why, 20% control the 80%. the rule of triangle or should I say hierarchy.

    In the animal kingdom, there is minimal emotion... Its just that we are humans with emo. So dont spend too much time on this area, find ways to achieve and be the top 20%. All efforts should go to that.
    Now adays, I avoid people who are negative and non-constructive. But if the person points out the fact and it so happens to be negative, I absorb and try to figure how to make the negative to be a positive to me.
    Example..
    If Singapore falls into recession - 2 ways to look at it :
    Bad or good??? Bad, because you have job instability. Good, if you dont need the job and you have cash to take advantage.
    I am not cursing, I am just saying, look at all situations and find opportunities. There will always be opportunity be it good or bad...
    Wa Bro, this is hardcore, hahaha. Need to read at least twice.

    I think I am 80% cat 1 and 20% most of the time Maybe that's why not there yet.

    Think you have written the core of living financely successful in Singapore. Not exactly what a lot of people wants to hear.

    End of the day, it's how badly one wants it. Thanks for pointing that out.

    Seems like I got a long way to learn......

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaytonaSS
    no brainer. U create a class like this, the poor will always be trapped.They cannot participate in the growth of the nation....

    In my humble opinion, HDB is the single inclusive policy which have brought wealth to 2 generations of normal Singaporeans whom have worked hard to bring us to where we are now.

    The current model works for me. New BTO is priced 20% cheaper than resale(market price). Heavy subsides to the poor group, help them with the DP and let the CPF pay for the installments.

    Have more funds for the ultra poor on housing and more $$$ set aside for education for their children so they can escape the "poverty trap".
    Bro, thanks for pointing this out.

    I able to get my first HDB because my spouse is a civil servant and needs to pay only 10% down...without that, honestly we can afford at all. Not afraid to admit on this.

    But after several years of working, I seriously think its more of mentorship to younger generation instead. Even with Internet and information everywhere, having a mentor decphier life in Singapore is something in my opinion priceless.

    What's so call right/wrong? The less privileged ones if have some successful kind souls to help geniunely, they will able to find their direction early, less the heartaches and U turns.

    Just my 2 cents worth

  23. #23
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    Saw him speaking at raffles place last Friday. Not sure whether he has permit to speak on public?
    Quote Originally Posted by minority
    thats why its call SDP.. Stupid Democratic Party... wat u expect when u have CHEE???

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