Another New Project by CDL at Pasir Ris Grove

[realestates1]

its really great project.. coming up... !! keep providing more information about it..

[buttercarp]

aiyo, why these things also become issue...
relax lah brothers....

I think it is a male thing .

[sabian]

check out the threads on palette and NV, get off your couch and do the homework personally

I could have given NV2010 the same response as you did when he asked me for the info.

But I guess you aren't in the forum to share though I was hoping that you would contribute.

well, i know for sure my homework isn't based on hearsay. go do yours

Until now you still beating about the bush.

Got evidence just lay it out lor. Otherwise it's just based on hearsay

It will help potential buyers who may be keen but are wondering about your claims that CDL is selling 99yr development on freehold land as per FEO's The Shore.

[sabian]

I think it is a male thing .

Not really sis.

Even if Eng81157 is an Andrea, I would be asking her for some factual links to back up those claims.

But just so we are clear, I have nothing against him. I do follow his posts bec his comments are very fair.

It's just this 99yr on FH land that I would really appreciate some sort of evidence so the issue can be put to bed once and for all.

[buttercarp]

As far as I know, only FEO's The Shore has a leasehold on freehold land arrangement.

According to this report
http://www.asiaone.com/Business/My+M...31-188966.html
.................................................
Selling a lease term instead of the entire freehold tenure is relatively rare, although Far East has done it before.
It launched two cluster housing projects - Cabana and The Greenwood - on freehold land with 103-year leases.

The 119-unit Cabana is in Sunrise Terrace, near Yio Chu Kang MRT station, while the 54-unit The Greenwood is in Greenwood Avenue.

The 99-year leasehold Spring Grove condo, which sits on the former Grange Road residence of the American ambassador, is a similar case.
The United States government bought the land in 1950 on a freehold lease but sold it on a 99-year lease to City Developments in 1991. The plot reverts to the US government at the end of this century..............................

[sabian]

According to this report
http://www.asiaone.com/Business/My+M...31-188966.html
.................................................
Selling a lease term instead of the entire freehold tenure is relatively rare, although Far East has done it before.
It launched two cluster housing projects - Cabana and The Greenwood - on freehold land with 103-year leases.

The 119-unit Cabana is in Sunrise Terrace, near Yio Chu Kang MRT station, while the 54-unit The Greenwood is in Greenwood Avenue.

The 99-year leasehold Spring Grove condo, which sits on the former Grange Road residence of the American ambassador, is a similar case.
The United States government bought the land in 1950 on a freehold lease but sold it on a 99-year lease to City Developments in 1991. The plot reverts to the US government at the end of this century..............................

Thanks buttercarp.

Seems this is predominantly FEO's speciality?

[kane]

Therefore, if people don't think this differentiation is important, then they can go buy these projects. I would never ever buy a project where the developer holds the freehold rights. That's just me.

[4wheels]

Thanks buttercarp.

Seems this is predominantly FEO's speciality?

I believe this other project that is LH sitting on a FH land is the Hedges Park at flora drive. All lands over the flora drive owns by Hong Leong are supposed to be FH.

[sabian]

I believe this other project that is LH sitting on a FH land is the Hedges Park at flora drive. All lands over the flora drive owns by Hong Leong are supposed to be FH.

That's possible. Those plots are freehold resi from the beginning.

So Livia/ NV/ The Palette and the next 2 plots too?

[NV2010]

Here is the history of CDL's Lands for residential
in Pasir Ris. Below are the details extracted from the CDL's annual reports.

CDL major properties for Development and/or Resale


In Annual Report 2006
Pasir Ris Drive 1/8 Site Area (Sq. metres) 195,025
Tenure 999 years

In Annual Report 2007
Pasir Ris Land Parcels 1, 2 and 3 + State Land Site Area (Sq. metres) 113,589 Tenure 99 years
Pasir Ris Land Parcels 4 and 5 Site Area (Sq. metres) 84,102
Tenure 999 years



In Annual Report 2008
Pasir Ris Land Parcels 2 and 3 + State Land Site Area (Sq. metres) 72,008 Tenure 99 years
Pasir Ris Land Parcels 4 and 5 Site Area (Sq. metres) 84,102
Tenure 999 years


In Annual Report 2009
Pasir Ris Land Parcels 2 and 3 + State Land Site Area (Sq. metres) 72,008 Tenure 99 years
Pasir Ris Land Parcels 4 and 5 Site Area (Sq. metres) 84,102
Tenure 999 years


In Annual Report 2010
Pasir Ris Land Parcel 3 + State Land Site Area (Sq. metres) 41,513 Tenure 99 years
Pasir Ris Land Parcels 4 and 5 Site Area (Sq. metres) 84,132
Tenure 99 years


In Annual Report 2011
Pasir Ris Land Parcel 3 + State Land Site Area (Sq. metres) 41,513 Tenure 99 years
Pasir Ris Land Parcel 5 Site Area (Sq. metres) 41,275
Tenure 99 years

[eng81157]

Until now you still beating about the bush.

Got evidence just lay it out lor. Otherwise it's just based on hearsay

other than reports, i doubt questioning and obtaining confirmation from a few agents that were tasked to sell NV and palette count as hearsay.

[NorthernStar]

I believe this other project that is LH sitting on a FH land is the Hedges Park at flora drive. All lands over the flora drive owns by Hong Leong are supposed to be FH.

Hedges park is 99LH sold in GLS 2010

http://www.ura.gov.sg/sales/UppChang...ocsFrames.html

[NorthernStar]

if got free cash, can get the lot info/history from SLA.. report + mailing cost around $9.. Not requested before, so i don't know what is actually inside the report.

[toiletsiao]

I believe this other project that is LH sitting on a FH land is the Hedges Park at flora drive. All lands over the flora drive owns by Hong Leong are supposed to be FH.

hedges Park is 99yr LH ... its a GLS site...

[toiletsiao]

actually the most simple way to clear up this Pasir Ris Grove site's tenture is just to email CDL investor relations for clarification..... say u are a prospective investor and want to know more lo.....

[buttercarp]

actually the most simple way to clear up this Pasir Ris Grove site's tenture is just to email CDL investor relations for clarification..... say u are a prospective investor and want to know more lo.....

Yes, agreed that this is the best way!
We are here to share info but we are not obliged to do so.
Those who want proper info have to find it out for themselves and not expect it out of anyone here.

[toiletsiao]

Yes, agreed that this is the best way!
We are here to share info but we are not obliged to do so.
Those who want proper info have to find it out for themselves and not expect it out of anyone here.

actually i just emailed them ... lol

I am curious too...also i wanted to know something about their non-core assets...so i shun pian included this land tenure question...

[sabian]

Yes, agreed that this is the best way!
We are here to share info but we are not obliged to do so.
Those who want proper info have to find it out for themselves and not expect it out of anyone here.

Yup. Agreed. I won't be so stupid the next time to respond the way I did with NV2010.

No offence to NV2010 but the way this forum works has been made clear to me now.

[sabian]

actually the most simple way to clear up this Pasir Ris Grove site's tenture is just to email CDL investor relations for clarification..... say u are a prospective investor and want to know more lo.....

Thank toiletsiao. I emailed CDL and they responded promptly.

[BigBoy]

Thank toiletsiao. I emailed CDL and they responded promptly.

So what was their reply? I emailed them too but they didn't answer my question.

Me:I would like to find out if The Palette is a leasehold condo on a freehold land?
CDL:Thank you for your email. The Palette is a 99 years leasehold project. For more information pertaining to sales, please do not hesitate to contact our hotline at tel: 68771818. Thank you and we look forward to be of service to you.

So I wrote them another email.

Me:Hi, I know it's a leasehold project but I would like to know if the land it's on belongs to cdl or the govt after the lease.

No response from CDL yet.

[toiletsiao]

So what was their reply? I emailed them too but they didn't answer my question.

Me:I would like to find out if The Palette is a leasehold condo on a freehold land?
CDL:Thank you for your email. The Palette is a 99 years leasehold project. For more information pertaining to sales, please do not hesitate to contact our hotline at tel: 68771818. Thank you and we look forward to be of service to you.

So I wrote them another email.

Me:Hi, I know it's a leasehold project but I would like to know if the land it's on belongs to cdl or the govt after the lease.

No response from CDL yet.

nope ... no response yet.

[buttercarp]

nope ... no response yet.

May I know what difference does it make?
Will it affect the pricing?

[Kenshinto80]

May I know what difference does it make?
Will it affect the pricing?

Big difference esp after 20 to 30 years for enbloc. Only got one buyer to go to....hence the folks on this thread want clarification.

[buttercarp]

Big difference esp after 20 to 30 years for enbloc. Only got one buyer to go to....hence the folks on this thread want clarification.

Oh, now I get the picture.... thanks !

So to chose between the 2, it is better if it is a GLS and 99LH, than LH on FH land, right?

[eng81157]

Oh, now I get the picture.... thanks !

So to chose between the 2, it is better if it is a GLS and 99LH, than LH on FH land, right?

certainly. to top up the lease, gotta go to owner. wanna enbloc, fat chance.

[chestnut]

Oh, now I get the picture.... thanks !

So to chose between the 2, it is better if it is a GLS and 99LH, than LH on FH land, right?

Nope, depends on your objective. Try to figure it out. Example. If u bot Livia, did u make money? Is en bloc the only thing in your mind? Are u telling me every 99 yr leasehold will get enbloc once they have say 60 yr lease left?

So those who bot Livia stupid? I don't think so.

There are some more angles to look at. U just need to look deeper.

Typically en bloc happens when plot ratio increase - then developer can make more money or
The plot ratio of the condo is not maximized
Or the existing condo is sitting on unique situation and he developer can make money.

[buttercarp]

Nope, depends on your objective. Try to figure it out. Example. If u bot Livia, did u make money? Is en bloc the only thing in your mind? Are u telling me every 99 yr leasehold will get enbloc once they have say 60 yr lease left?

So those who bot Livia stupid? I don't think so.

There are some more angles to look at. U just need to look deeper.

Typically en bloc happens when plot ratio increase - then developer can make more money or
The plot ratio of the condo is not maximized
Or the existing condo is sitting on unique situation and he developer can make money.

Hi bro chestnut, so what you are saying is that it makes no difference between the 2 types of land leases, if there is no en bloc potential?

[chestnut]

Hi bro chestnut, so what you are saying is that it makes no difference between the 2 types of land leases, if there is no en bloc potential?

Every one hopes for en bloc, but ask anyone here to give u names of condo with potential enbloc on condos which are about to top or even 5 year old condos with 99year lease. And state reason why they think it will enbloc. None will be able to give u a single name. Enbloc for 99 gls new condo is pure luck and in the hands of govt.

[Leeds]

Nope, depends on your objective. Try to figure it out. Example. If u bot Livia, did u make money? Is en bloc the only thing in your mind? Are u telling me every 99 yr leasehold will get enbloc once they have say 60 yr lease left?

So those who bot Livia stupid? I don't think so.

There are some more angles to look at. U just need to look deeper.

Typically en bloc happens when plot ratio increase - then developer can make more money or
The plot ratio of the condo is not maximized
Or the existing condo is sitting on unique situation and he developer can make money.

I think one should understand the legal implications before buying into such developments. Is the Strata Titles in the name of the lessee (the buyer) or lessor (developer). The contract must state clearly who hold the Titles for the next 99-year. In the eyes of the state, the land owner is still the developer.

What happen when the government want to acquire part of the land for redevelopment. Who will be the "rightful owner" to negotiate with the government and to receive compensations. In most other leasehold developments where the state is still the owner of the land, the Management Corporation representing the ultimate owners would negotiate with the government.

On the issue of en bloc; collective sale is always possible when the value of the development falls sharply with respect to new or future developments within the area. This could be due to age or poorly maintianed development whcih could not command market price when sell individually. There are many such aging developments which has fully ulilised their plot ratio and still have en bloc potential. Of course market forces usually means that the asking prices for these developments are usually very high such that it makes no sense to buy into such developments hoping for en bloc sale. However, should it happens, the developer will have the upper hand and not the lessees.

[chestnut]

We are talking about new projects. Not old projects.
So I am comparing apple to apple.

So u are telling me that Livia is not worth the purchase or what?

If u want to talk about old projects, we can talk about old projects.

I think one should understand the legal implications before buying into such developments. Is the Strata Titles in the name of the lessee (the buyer) or lessor (developer). The contract must state clearly who hold the Titles for the next 99-year. In the eyes of the state, the land owner is still the developer.

What happen when the government want to acquire part of the land for redevelopment. Who will be the "rightful owner" to negotiate with the government and to receive compensations. In most other leasehold developments where the state is still the owner of the land, the Management Corporation representing the ultimate owners would negotiate with the government.

On the issue of en bloc; collective sale is always possible when the value of the development falls sharply with respect to new or future developments within the area. This could be due to age or poorly maintianed development whcih could not command market price when sell individually. There are many such aging developments which has fully ulilised their plot ratio and still have en bloc potential. Of course market forces usually means that the asking prices for these developments are usually very high such that it makes no sense to buy into such developments hoping for en bloc sale. However, should it happens, the developer will have the upper hand and not the lessees.