👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍Originally Posted by proud owner
Junior
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Senior
He talk cock lah. In event there is a crash the goverment can easily roll back the policy. and LTV help prevent people from over levaraging. Its a bullshit crap this guy trying to spin. as usual.
“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
― Martin Luther King, Jr.
OUT WITH THE SHIT TRASH
https://www.facebook.com/shutdowntrs
Senior
Dont waste time reply to that shit stirrer lah.
“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
― Martin Luther King, Jr.
OUT WITH THE SHIT TRASH
https://www.facebook.com/shutdowntrs
Global recession is coming....
minority,
You the biggest LIAR here saying other people talk cock? Wow! anyway, still lose to you the BIGGEST LIAR!
Yes, when there is a crash, government can easily roll back the property cooling measures, just like in 1997 but it took 8 long years until 2005 before the property market is able to revive - History already taught us that it is so easily to crash property market with policies but so difficult to revive it with policies (because investors' sentiment has been badly dented!)!
Senior
minority,
You the biggest LIAR here saying other people talk cock? Wow! anyway, still lose to you the BIGGEST LIAR!
Yes, when there is a crash, government can easily roll back the property cooling measures, just like in 1997 but it took 8 long years until 2005 before the property market is able to revive - History already taught us that it is so easily to crash property market with policies but so difficult to revive it with policies (because investors' sentiment has been badly dented!)!
Talk cock again . 97 is financial crisis. so is 2000 then 2003 Sars. So what policy ah??? shit stirrer.
“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
― Martin Luther King, Jr.
OUT WITH THE SHIT TRASH
https://www.facebook.com/shutdowntrs
Newbie
I'll refrain from doing so... especially on policies and financial jargon where he has revolutionary theories and readings.
On certain comments on specific projects, he does talk good sense.
Ultimate Underdog
How do you guys read the Perennial 4.55% retail bonds?
The three laws of Kelonguni:
Where there is kelong, there is guni.
No kelong no guni.
More kelong = more guni.
Senior
Don't quite like. I think FCL is issuing a 4.35% 10yr. properly have better financial backing.
“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
― Martin Luther King, Jr.
OUT WITH THE SHIT TRASH
https://www.facebook.com/shutdowntrs
Senior
any thoughts on the the BOND ETF on SGX i.e
Asia HY BOND ETF yield 4%
SG BOND ETF yield 0.22%
Asia BOND 4%
“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
― Martin Luther King, Jr.
OUT WITH THE SHIT TRASH
https://www.facebook.com/shutdowntrs
Newbie
Hi. Just curious. If say a bank sells otc bonds to a customer, are they liable to get sued?
Newbie
Hope you made a windfall as most of the bonds prices shoot up recently, I bought nol bond at junk price and it shoot up quite a lot and still waiting for otto marine ( 79 ) to redeem in AUG . Since the prices are stabilized the gain are flat now. I guess should wait for stock opportunity in June.
Leeds
I am an investor rather than a trader. I switched to bonds in 2011 to preserve wealth rather than to create wealth. Hence, I invest only in investment grade bonds and not junk bonds. Investment grade bonds usually are very stable and investors are mostly looking for coupon payment. Because prices are very stable for investment grade bonds, one could sell them anytime if we need the money to switch to other instrument like property when the market ready to enter.
I do not believe like many others here that anytime is a good time to invest in property nor do I believe that as long as bank is willing to lent, I will buy more. This strategy only works in the 80s' and 90s' when our GDP was double digit or high single digit. Going forward, buying property in Singapore is like investing in stock; understand the market and know when to enter and exit the market. It may be difficult to predict or time the market but as long as you are not greedy and do not aim to buy at the lowest and sell at the highest, you should be doing well in your investment.
For example in late 2011, many people who plan to sell for a profit missed the opportunity to sell because they wanted to wait for prices to go up even higher and found themselves still holding on to their assets today.
On the other side, many late entry investors due to greed still went on to buy in late 2011 and these people now find themselves stuck with an inflated asset.
If you are in the market for wealth creation, one should not be too greedy and hoping to buy at the lowest and sell at the highest. Take profit if you think the price is peaking and not wait till price is at the peak because you cannot know when is the peak but you know when it is peaking.
GREED kills!
Ultimate Underdog
I disagree categorically that it's all about greed.
Property was and is the most defensive class of asset.
No regrets switching over to it. In fact, I wonder why people still don't see it after so many years. Personally I am having such a great time!
It's never about timing.
The three laws of Kelonguni:
Where there is kelong, there is guni.
No kelong no guni.
More kelong = more guni.
Senior
Can Never make me trade paper money(IOU) for another type of paper money(Bond) https://secure.fundsupermart.com/mai...o/sgsIntro.tpl.
Still believe in the good old way of using other people money(Cash, Deposit) to buy property(can touch and feel).
If Bank can lend me Money (electronic money key into their computer system), I will still buy property. The government doesn't create money, Bank do. That is the reason why MAS need to create 8 control measure to stop the Bank from creating too much money.
Have always think the Bank loan money from the deposit and never in my mind they just need to key into their computer system and money is created. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsrtB5lp60s
Who print my money, your guess is as good as mine. http://www.tradingeconomics.com/sing...oney-supply-m3
The fund management industry also flourished, growing from just over SGD150 billion in 1998 to nearly SGD1.4 trillion in assets under management in 2010.
http://www.sgs.gov.sg/Publications/~...Guide_2012.pdf
Property price can only become cheaper with all the created money running around looking for a place to park.
Southbank 2 Bedroom SGD 535,000 in 2006, SGD 1,550,000 in 2010. The Same piece of land, the same piece of building, did the property price increase or the money depreciate.
Was away from Singapore for the last 8 years 8 month, ask my colleague and friend did they see what I saw, most of them look lost.
Senior
Senior
Junior
Let hope the NOL 4.25% due 2017 & 4.4% due 2019 change of control is triggered. Another 1.5% increase.
Bought NOL 2017 @98.5. Wanted to add 1 more lot when price dropped 92 but was advised not to due to concentration risk.
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if the Issuer does not elect to redeem the Notes within 60 days of the occurrence of such Change of Control in accordance with Condition 60) the then prevailing Rate of Interest applicable to the Notes shall be increased by 1.5 per
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Newbie
Thanks for the reply, I've bought nol 4.4 at 85 and sold on wed at 93. Are short term local bonds ( 1 to 2 years) and selling at distress price (below 90)worth the bet? But of course majority are related to O&G. Nevertheless I still believe properties investment is for long term. Properties can never vanish but corp can close shop overnight.
Last edited by Citizen; 07-05-16 at 22:14.
Senior
bro
only applies to Singapore , HK , ...
not everywhere ...
in many other countries, the prices stay the same, maybe inched up a couple of 10k's after several years ....
Newbie
Most cities' property prices shoot up in recent years and definitely in long term not just SG and HK. I just can't bring myself to invest in today prices.
Ultimate Underdog
That's why it's not about greed. It's defensive.
Actually price should go down with time, why should price stay or go up as property ages?
Anyway, I still don't have the patience to buy bonds yet but I am trying to learn. Gotta learn some more from the experts here.
The three laws of Kelonguni:
Where there is kelong, there is guni.
No kelong no guni.
More kelong = more guni.
Newbie
Don't dispute property for long term , defensive and wealth preservation. What r u gotta do with excess cash? Bonds and stocks should be next option. I used to buy and keep bonds and stocks for longer time frame. But last few years I found trading a lot fastest to gain. There r a lot chances blue chips and good bonds sold at distress prices, just wait for opportunity. Few times within a year.
Junior
More than $25k profit within a few month.
FYI, the NOL 4.25% LTV is 70%. Cash needed is only $75k. With leverage, est 14% return for holding est 1 yr.
I am taking calculated risk to buy junk bond China HNA 7% due 31Mar2017 Corp SGD @100. Short dated junk bond. A few Banks gives LTV 75%. But no seller in the mkt unless you are willing to Q at higher than 100.
Ultimate Underdog
Oxley 4-year 5.15% bond anyone?
http://www.straitstimes.com/business...ith-515-return
The three laws of Kelonguni:
Where there is kelong, there is guni.
No kelong no guni.
More kelong = more guni.
Leeds
UOB Perp Bond (as early as today)
Bond Issuer United Overseas Bank Limited
Guarantor -
Price Guidance 4.25% ARea
Tenor 33.02
Bond Currency SGD
Annual Coupon Frequency Semi Annually
Coupon Type Variable
Bond Registration Wholesale
Issue Size SGD Benchmark
Bond Type Corporate
Bond Sector Financials
Bond Sub Sector Banks
Minimum Investment Quantity (Nominal) SGD 250,000
Incremental Quantity (Nominal) SGD 250,000
Bond Credit Rating (Moody's / S&P/ Fitch) A3/N.R/BBB
Issuer Credit Rating (Moody's / S&P/ Fitch) Aa1/AA-/AA-
Seniority Subordinated
Exchange Listed SGX
VARIABLE COUPON
Reset Rate = 5Y SGD SOR + Initial Margin
Reset Date = First Call date & every 5y thereafter
CALLABLE
At first call date in year 5 and any distribution payment date thereafter, subject to regulatory approval
DEFERRABLE INTEREST PAYMENT
Non –Cumulative, Dividend Stopper
LOSS ABSORPTION
Earlier of the regulator notifying the Issuer in writing (i) that a write-off is necessary or (ii) of its decision to make a public sector injection of capital or equivalent support, (in each case) without which the Issuer would become non-viable.
WRITE DOWN (PARTIAL ALLOWED):
(i) Upon occurrence of a Loss Absorption Event, cancellation of the accrued distributions and if insufficient, permanent write-down (partial or in full) of the prevailing principal amount
(ii) Write-down amount is ascertained by the Issuer (and the Regulator is satisfied) such that the amount written-off will be sufficient to ensure that the Issuer ceases to be non-viable
(iii) Write-down pro rata with other Parity Tier 1 instruments that include loss absorption features
Leeds
Soc Gen SA 4.5% 10 yrs (as early as today)
Bond Issuer Societe Generale SA
Guarantor -
Price Guidance 4.5% Area
Tenor 10.00
Bond Currency SGD
Annual Coupon Frequency Semi Annually
Coupon Type Variable
Bond Registration Wholesale
Issue Size SGD Benchmark
Bond Type Corporate
Bond Sector Financials
Bond Sub Sector Banks
Minimum Investment Quantity (Nominal) SGD 250,000
Incremental Quantity (Nominal) SGD 250,000
Bond Credit Rating (Moody's / S&P/ Fitch) Baa3/BBB/A-
Issuer Credit Rating (Moody's / S&P/ Fitch) A2/A/A
Seniority Subordinated
Exchange Listed SGX
VARIABLE COUPON
Reset Rate: 5Y SGD SOR + Initial Margin
Reset Date: May 2021
CALLABLE
Expected Call Date: Year 5
LOSS ABSORPTION
Newbie
Hi Bro Leed
How to buy this Bond? Safe to buy...?
Bro CBSH, whats your view?
Junior
Bank perp with coco bond fixture (lost absorption) is Risk level 5 - highest risk.
Not for holding long term. It is more for trading.
The just recent ABNANV (ABN bank) 4.750% 01Apr2026 Corp (SGD) IPO on Apr 16.
After 1 mth + , The price to sell around 1.02.
Leeds
Most local retail buyers buy corporate bonds through bank either as private or priority clients. For IPO, most good bonds are reserved for private clients.
CBSH, correct me if I am wrong, this UOB Perp is not the usual European bank's coco bond. It is non-coco but with lost absorption through principal reduction.
Junior
According to the RM. as long as it comes with loss absorption features. It is considered a Coco. As for the not the usual European
bank coco bond. I am not sure & U need to ask your RM.
Deal size is S$750m. Final books were in excess of S$2.4B. I did not apply as the borrowing cost in SGD is too expensive.
Around 2.3 to 2.5%. Used to be 1.1% to 1.3% for SGD loan b4 2015.
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