BOND THREAD

[Werther]

It cant be avoided unless U have a good relationship with your banker or U have accessed to Bloomberg Bond price which it liquid. If it is a illiquid issued bond, you may not get a reasonable pricing. U just have to accept what is given to U.

I sold my Shui On 8% SGD Bond @103.75 at Bank A. But ONLY min later, I check with bank B. The price to sell is 104.2. It is OK with me because my banker A has been always helpful to get the info I request.

Hi CBSH

My friend told me citibank has a structured product that pay 6% on min $200K, got to hold for 2 years, payable monthly... Are such products safe?

[banana55]

Starry, yes indeed we should not be held ransom and it shouldn't be the case since we could always have bonds transferred from one custodian to another, if need be, at a fee, to avoid say a daylight robbery commission spread of 3.00 (that is $7500) if it ever happens. I've heard stories like that before, and its pretty rampant with bonds like Olam in recent history where prices dips down to lows of the 80's and 90's, bankers do take opportunistic spreads between 1-3% (ie 1.00-3.00). Hence, I always ask what is the market bid/offer and what is the commission spread, and for IPO, I always ask what the rebate level is behind the issue, although I am not entitled to rebates.

This financial business is an information business, and everyone is for self interest. Bankers size clients up and clients size bankers up all the time. When Bankers senses that a client doesn't know Jack, the commission becomes an opportunistic 3.00, when the client is perceived to be in the know, its probably 0.25 or 0.50 in typical PB and Retail platform respectively. In some cases, I've been charged 0.10 or 0.05 for comms, and in a developing story, some bankers are telling me they can return IPO rebates back to clients.

DBS seems like the best place for retail banking right now, their borrowing cost is perhaps the most competitive around, and they are bookmakers for a large part of SG issues which might translate to guaranteed allocation perhaps?

[cbsh38584]

Hi CBSH

My friend told me citibank has a structured product that pay 6% on min $200K, got to hold for 2 years, payable monthly... Are such products safe?

A structured product ties up your money for a set time and might be designed to give you income, growth or both. Structured products are complex and can be more risky than they seem, so get professional financial advice if you’re not sure whether they’re right for you.

It is not suitable for you. Pls avoid

[teddybear]

"structured product", mmm, sound very familiar, used to be called "structured deposit" right?
If you dig deep into such "structured product", you would want to avoid with a 3m pole!

Hi CBSH

My friend told me citibank has a structured product that pay 6% on min $200K, got to hold for 2 years, payable monthly... Are such products safe?

[cbsh38584]

Starry, yes indeed we should not be held ransom and it shouldn't be the case since we could always have bonds transferred from one custodian to another, if need be, at a fee, to avoid say a daylight robbery commission spread of 3.00 (that is $7500) if it ever happens. I've heard stories like that before, and its pretty rampant with bonds like Olam in recent history where prices dips down to lows of the 80's and 90's, bankers do take opportunistic spreads between 1-3% (ie 1.00-3.00). Hence, I always ask what is the market bid/offer and what is the commission spread, and for IPO, I always ask what the rebate level is behind the issue, although I am not entitled to rebates.

This financial business is an information business, and everyone is for self interest. Bankers size clients up and clients size bankers up all the time. When Bankers senses that a client doesn't know Jack, the commission becomes an opportunistic 3.00, when the client is perceived to be in the know, its probably 0.25 or 0.50 in typical PB and Retail platform respectively. In some cases, I've been charged 0.10 or 0.05 for comms, and in a developing story, some bankers are telling me they can return IPO rebates back to clients.

DBS seems like the best place for retail banking right now, their borrowing cost is perhaps the most competitive around, and they are bookmakers for a large part of SG issues which might translate to guaranteed allocation perhaps?

U must be a big client in that bank. I have been charged 0.2 for comms at PB. Cannot nego unless very big amount. Maybe > 10 million. I am quite active in buying & take profit later within mths & switch to other bond during 2012/2013. Not in 2014.

Do DBS provide LTV for most of the straight & Perp bond ?

Example banyan tree 6.25% & Lippomall 5.875% bond zero LTV at local bank due to small issued size. Foreign bank LTV 60%.

Olam Perp bond 60% LTV at Foreign bond (not all). Local bank zero LTV for Perp bond.


USD Junk bond especially from China do have 55% to 60% LTV for foreign bank. But not local bank.

DBS IPO bond price 100.2 for priority banking clients. Std chart priority banking clients IPO bond price also @100.2. Not sure for UOB or OCBC as they are mostly not the book runner.

SC custodian fee 01.%. DBS custodian fee ? (FOC ?).

[cbsh38584]

Yanlord USD bond 9.5% IPO in 2010 due in 2017 - Redeem
=====================================
Yanlord Land Group Limited will redeem all of the outstanding Notes in full in the principal amount of US$300 million on June 12, 2014 at a redemption price equal to 104.75% of the principal amount thereof, plus the accrued and unpaid interest to the Redemption Date.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From OCBC report on Yanlord SGD bond 6.2% due in 2017.

Yanlord Land Group Ltd (“YLLG”) priced a 3-year S$400mn senior SGD bond at the 6.2%. The bond was rated BB-/Ba3 by S&P and Moody’s, respectively. The net proceeds of the issue will be utilized to refinance existing borrowings.

Amidst the potential headwinds and further margin pressures, we take some comfort on YLLG’s low average land cost at 26% of ASP in FY2013. We note that YLLG has been delivering good performance, and has recorded increased pre-sales in FY2013. With a sufficient land bank size and development operations that is diversified across 9 cities, the credit fundamentals of YLLG to remain stable.

May buy if the price drop to a attractive level (<100) . To buy now around 101.

[teddybear]

Sorry, is "SC custodian fee" 0.1% or 0.01%? Thanks.

U must be a big client in that bank. I have been charged 0.2 for comms at PB. Cannot nego unless very big amount. Maybe > 10 million. I am quite active in buying & take profit later within mths & switch to other bond during 2012/2013. Not in 2014.

Do DBS provide LTV for most of the straight & Perp bond ?

Example banyan tree 6.25% & Lippomall 5.875% bond zero LTV at local bank due to small issued size. Foreign bank LTV 60%.

Olam Perp bond 60% LTV at Foreign bond (not all). Local bank zero LTV for Perp bond.


USD Junk bond especially from China do have 55% to 60% LTV for foreign bank. But not local bank.

DBS IPO bond price 100.2 for priority banking clients. Std chart priority banking clients IPO bond price also @100.2. Not sure for UOB or OCBC as they are mostly not the book runner.

SC custodian fee 01.%. DBS custodian fee ? (FOC ?).

[wcd76]

Hi all,


Just registered.

Thoroughly enjoy the wise words and strategies shared here.


Hope to learn from you all.

[cbsh38584]

Sorry, is "SC custodian fee" 0.1% or 0.01%? Thanks.

0.1% or 0.001 of 250k = $250

[smallant]

A BIG thanks n thumbs up for the sharing of bonds. Really appreciate the frank discussion. . ;-)

Can I hijack this thread temporary to ask a question ?
Maxim trader .. someone ask me to invest..5-8% returns each mth on us $10-30k.
seems to me too gd to be true ... anyone have experience on this ?
Thanks

[cbsh38584]

A BIG thanks n thumbs up for the sharing of bonds. Really appreciate the frank discussion. . ;-)

Can I hijack this thread temporary to ask a question ?
Maxim trader .. someone ask me to invest..5-8% returns each mth on us $10-30k.
seems to me too gd to be true ... anyone have experience on this ?
Thanks

Avoid.
My friends invested in Wine investment with promises of high return. Lost $20k plus. Also Rec'd a call from landing banking staff. Offer me a "free plot of land" in Canada. Keep calling me to come down to further discuss it.

[wcd76]

Hi all,


I recently bought a hdb bond maturing in 2021. It is not the one that is recently launched. I wanted to see if I could only cough up 20% of the amount needed but was told I could not do that with any of the local banks. Is this true? I did this with uob.

[wcd76]

A BIG thanks n thumbs up for the sharing of bonds. Really appreciate the frank discussion. . ;-)

Can I hijack this thread temporary to ask a question ?
Maxim trader .. someone ask me to invest..5-8% returns each mth on us $10-30k.
seems to me too gd to be true ... anyone have experience on this ?
Thanks

I have heard about this too. I understand that there is a lock-in period. 5% monthly is obscene and the business model does not seem to be sustainable in my opinion.

[banana55]

U must be a big client in that bank. I have been charged 0.2 for comms at PB. Cannot nego unless very big amount. Maybe > 10 million. I am quite active in buying & take profit later within mths & switch to other bond during 2012/2013. Not in 2014.

Do DBS provide LTV for most of the straight & Perp bond ?

Example banyan tree 6.25% & Lippomall 5.875% bond zero LTV at local bank due to small issued size. Foreign bank LTV 60%.

Olam Perp bond 60% LTV at Foreign bond (not all). Local bank zero LTV for Perp bond.


USD Junk bond especially from China do have 55% to 60% LTV for foreign bank. But not local bank.

DBS IPO bond price 100.2 for priority banking clients. Std chart priority banking clients IPO bond price also @100.2. Not sure for UOB or OCBC as they are mostly not the book runner.

SC custodian fee 01.%. DBS custodian fee ? (FOC ?).

Hi Cbsh, I'm paying 0.25 typical for non IPO trades at CS on single unit(250k) basis, but on certain non IPO trades this is negotiable. I don't bank with DBS so I cannot confirm the generosity on LTV's. It is just my observation that on Retail level, they have pretty distinct advantages. Generally I reckon it is the PB platform that offers better LTV. I'm not so much into borrowing, which is why if you recall me asking on borrowing rates a couple of months back. Basically I have negotiated decent rates for commissions(no min. volume), no custody fees, etc before opening a PB account, all with the exception of negotiating borrowing rates, hence I'm feeling ripped off in this area after checking around. Bankers will always take advantage of areas which they sense weakness, and in my case the borrowing rates are out of whack and it's not coming down to typical market rates for the foreseeable future until perhaps I open PB elsewhere if it comes to pass.

I've paid 100.20 at UOB retail previously for IPO for my first virgin bond purchase, and was told their secondary market minimums are 0.50 for comms, they use CDP Sub account for custody and they subsidize the cost for me. Not sure about the rest since I've not dealt with them on bonds but ultimately, some banks do have fees set at minimum level which they cannot circumvent, but this doesn't apply on every aspect of the fee table so they can always give you sweeteners if you know where or how to get them. This is also true for PB levels. I am not a big volume client by any standards, but financial markets is my only source of income/capital gains for the past 7 years, and fortunately many of my peers are bankers in various institutions so I get insights on their minimums, areas where they can be flexible, areas where they can't, etc. I make it known to them like an open book, whether peers or assigned RM's that this is my only ricebowl as a matter of fact, I am price sensitive, and I demonstrate what I know during their sales pitch so they have an idea if what I say is true and they tell me their best offer. Since I am not employed or running a business as primary source of income, I consider all fees payable as part of my "business" cost which I have to keep at minimum just like any business would with their operation.

I honestly believe all bankers size up their clients, they know who is sugar daddy/money material, potential cry babies, el cheapos(like myself), etc, and they probably do choose the clients they wish to "keep". Some bankers are already comfortable so they expect decent income for themselves by taking on more lucrative clients, others are desperate for regular clients and are willing to deal on your terms subjected they meet the imposed minimums if they somehow feel that there's no other way out in meeting their targets. Therefore I do not for a moment think that any 2 bankers from the same bank will provide identical treatment. Also my positions are mostly self directed, so I do not require much servicing from them, since it doesn't require much of their time or effort to have me so long I give them business, those who agree to my terms probably see me as low maintenance and hence accepts brokerage-like revenue off me. I am most likely low priority in their books if I may add. Till this day, I have yet to meet a banker(friends or otherwise) who is genuinely more interested in their clients financial health over their own - hence a self interest business.

To further balance the picture, it also depends on what the client wants out of the banker, I've seen banker friends send their clients pets to the vet, cars to workshop, handle their tenancy agreement privately, or even help them tabao their favourite food. For this, I doubt the clients gets low fees in return for the extra mile services. Some tiko's enjoy having SYT(sweet young things) as their RM's, so I doubt they get best rates as well when much time is spent wining and dining with them. I deal only with male RMs as rule of the thumb, and its only straight up no nonsense, no extra mile, no excess baggage kind of banking business only transaction.

[banana55]

A BIG thanks n thumbs up for the sharing of bonds. Really appreciate the frank discussion. . ;-)

Can I hijack this thread temporary to ask a question ?
Maxim trader .. someone ask me to invest..5-8% returns each mth on us $10-30k.
seems to me too gd to be true ... anyone have experience on this ?
Thanks

Looks like an fx trading investment? 5% per month is annualised at 80% per annum return. FX trading accounts are limited to ceiling of 50x leverage in Singapore, and 100-400x leverage in western world. So who does the trades? They sell you a system and you DIY? This would sound typical.

Or they trade it on your account, whether automated or managed?

Counter party wise, I've not heard of this company, not even in the FX realm for me to trust them with my money.

If you're willing to put down everything else, and pick up the ropes of FX, with some talent and skill coupled with 50x leverage, 80% return is not difficult to achieve over a year on your own assuming you manage to pick up what it takes. But if you depend on a third party on the same basis, then the odds of seeing your money again over the long run is weak.

If you want to convince yourself, ask them this exact question:

WHAT IS YOUR RISK ADJUSTED RETURN?

1. I don't think they can instantly answer you, because they don't know, and that's a huge red flag.
2. I don't think they will ever have that answer for you regardless of the amount of time you spend waiting for the answer. Instead, they might show you some sample "portfolio" of performance which generated decent returns, which if you notice, they are not answering your question by doing that.
3. Risk adjusted return is most likely mediocre at best considering 50x leverage factor typical with FX from the figures you have provided. Any surprises now why they wouldn't answer you with a straight face?

[cbsh38584]

Hi Cbsh, I'm paying 0.25 typical for non IPO trades at CS on single unit(250k) basis, but on certain non IPO trades this is negotiable. I don't bank with DBS so I cannot confirm the generosity on LTV's. It is just my observation that on Retail level, they have pretty distinct advantages. Generally I reckon it is the PB platform that offers better LTV. I'm not so much into borrowing, which is why if you recall me asking on borrowing rates a couple of months back. Basically I have negotiated decent rates for commissions(no min. volume), no custody fees, etc before opening a PB account, all with the exception of negotiating borrowing rates, hence I'm feeling ripped off in this area after checking around. Bankers will always take advantage of areas which they sense weakness, and in my case the borrowing rates are out of whack and it's not coming down to typical market rates for the foreseeable future until perhaps I open PB elsewhere if it comes to pass.

I've paid 100.20 at UOB retail previously for IPO for my first virgin bond purchase, and was told their secondary market minimums are 0.50 for comms, they use CDP Sub account for custody and they subsidize the cost for me. Not sure about the rest since I've not dealt with them on bonds but ultimately, some banks do have fees set at minimum level which they cannot circumvent, but this doesn't apply on every aspect of the fee table so they can always give you sweeteners if you know where or how to get them. This is also true for PB levels. I am not a big volume client by any standards, but financial markets is my only source of income/capital gains for the past 7 years, and fortunately many of my peers are bankers in various institutions so I get insights on their minimums, areas where they can be flexible, areas where they can't, etc. I make it known to them like an open book, whether peers or assigned RM's that this is my only ricebowl as a matter of fact, I am price sensitive, and I demonstrate what I know during their sales pitch so they have an idea if what I say is true and they tell me their best offer. Since I am not employed or running a business as primary source of income, I consider all fees payable as part of my "business" cost which I have to keep at minimum just like any business would with their operation.

I honestly believe all bankers size up their clients, they know who is sugar daddy/money material, potential cry babies, el cheapos(like myself), etc, and they probably do choose the clients they wish to "keep". Some bankers are already comfortable so they expect decent income for themselves by taking on more lucrative clients, others are desperate for regular clients and are willing to deal on your terms subjected they meet the imposed minimums if they somehow feel that there's no other way out in meeting their targets. Therefore I do not for a moment think that any 2 bankers from the same bank will provide identical treatment. Also my positions are mostly self directed, so I do not require much servicing from them, since it doesn't require much of their time or effort to have me so long I give them business, those who agree to my terms probably see me as low maintenance and hence accepts brokerage-like revenue off me. I am most likely low priority in their books if I may add. Till this day, I have yet to meet a banker(friends or otherwise) who is genuinely more interested in their clients financial health over their own - hence a self interest business.

To further balance the picture, it also depends on what the client wants out of the banker, I've seen banker friends send their clients pets to the vet, cars to workshop, handle their tenancy agreement privately, or even help them tabao their favourite food. For this, I doubt the clients gets low fees in return for the extra mile services. Some tiko's enjoy having SYT(sweet young things) as their RM's, so I doubt they get best rates as well when much time is spent wining and dining with them. I deal only with male RMs as rule of the thumb, and its only straight up no nonsense, no extra mile, no excess baggage kind of banking business only transaction.

Thank for info.
I would like to have more European or US bond in my portfolio. Currently zero. I keep receiving new IPO emerging mkt bond from my banker although the yield is much higher. None US or Euro new IPO bond.

Few mths ago, Indonesia currency was hit. So I thought of buying Indonesia big blue chip USD bond. But they seem to only concentrate on China , HK & S'pore. Still learning & want to spread my risk by going into a global bond portfolio. Not just Asia bond.

Euro borrowing cost is slightly cheaper than USD borrowing cost.

[cbsh38584]

Looks like an fx trading investment? 5% per month is annualised at 80% per annum return. FX trading accounts are limited to ceiling of 50x leverage in Singapore, and 100-400x leverage in western world. So who does the trades? They sell you a system and you DIY? This would sound typical.

Or they trade it on your account, whether automated or managed?

Counter party wise, I've not heard of this company, not even in the FX realm for me to trust them with my money.

If you're willing to put down everything else, and pick up the ropes of FX, with some talent and skill coupled with 50x leverage, 80% return is not difficult to achieve over a year on your own assuming you manage to pick up what it takes. But if you depend on a third party on the same basis, then the odds of seeing your money again over the long run is weak.

If you want to convince yourself, ask them this exact question:

WHAT IS YOUR RISK ADJUSTED RETURN?

1. I don't think they can instantly answer you, because they don't know, and that's a huge red flag.
2. I don't think they will ever have that answer for you regardless of the amount of time you spend waiting for the answer. Instead, they might show you some sample "portfolio" of performance which generated decent returns, which if you notice, they are not answering your question by doing that.
3. Risk adjusted return is most likely mediocre at best considering 50x leverage factor typical with FX from the figures you have provided. Any surprises now why they wouldn't answer you with a straight face?

I have done a lot of Dual currency in 2011 in PB. At that time, the VIX is there & U can get 6 to 12% yield with a reasonable strike . I make almost S$28k. My banker was very happy with me as I did a total of 70 DCI trades with him. In 2012, I just make S$15k.

But in 2013/2014, the VIX is so low that it is not worth doing DCI (FCI). I occasionally do some DCI just to give my banker some "biz".

In 2012, I open an small acct (S$12k) with Saxo to trade FX as I thought I am some experience. I make only S$6k doing 80 trades as my strike price is very very conservative (low yield).But in 2013, I lost $12k to Yen/USD pair when ABE become PM . He goes into big QE. Luckily, I have the courage to cut lost. Has stop trading at Saxo since 2013.

My biz friend told me his former classmate sold his company to a big investor many years back. With the huge amt of money he got. He decided to enrol in professional FX course & under study with a professional trader in London. So he stayed in London for 2 yrs & finally back to SG with full of confidence that he will make money in FX trade. After many years of trading FX, he just shake his head & said he is not making $$$.

I believe you can make big in FX but not by trading. U will lose in long run. There is only two big opportunity where U can make really big money.

In 2011 Swiss Franc/USD was at 73 (now 90). The Swiss government is screaming & warned the speculator at that time.

In 2012 when Yen/USD was 75 (now 101). Many Jap biz is screaming for Jap government to intervention.

Euro/USD pair (1.19) needs really a big courage to bet against further weaken in 2011 at that time. Now 1.36

[starrynight]

Thanks both.

I remember during the Olam saga, I did ask for some quotes, but the DBS prices were around 2.5% more than the Bloomberg prices most of the time.

Personally, I feel DBS has the best IPO allocations of the local banks, and are most willing to make a price. But I also get the feeling that quite a lot of the time, I am buying bonds held by their treasury, rather than them going out to try to find external counterparties for me.

It cant be avoided unless U have a good relationship with your banker or U have accessed to Bloomberg Bond price which it liquid. If it is a illiquid issued bond, you may not get a reasonable pricing. U just have to accept what is given to U.

I sold my Shui On 8% SGD Bond @103.75 at Bank A. But ONLY min later, I check with bank B. The price to sell is 104.2. It is OK with me because my banker A has been always helpful to get the info I request.

Starry, yes indeed we should not be held ransom and it shouldn't be the case since we could always have bonds transferred from one custodian to another, if need be, at a fee, to avoid say a daylight robbery commission spread of 3.00 (that is $7500) if it ever happens. I've heard stories like that before, and its pretty rampant with bonds like Olam in recent history where prices dips down to lows of the 80's and 90's, bankers do take opportunistic spreads between 1-3% (ie 1.00-3.00). Hence, I always ask what is the market bid/offer and what is the commission spread, and for IPO, I always ask what the rebate level is behind the issue, although I am not entitled to rebates.

This financial business is an information business, and everyone is for self interest. Bankers size clients up and clients size bankers up all the time. When Bankers senses that a client doesn't know Jack, the commission becomes an opportunistic 3.00, when the client is perceived to be in the know, its probably 0.25 or 0.50 in typical PB and Retail platform respectively. In some cases, I've been charged 0.10 or 0.05 for comms, and in a developing story, some bankers are telling me they can return IPO rebates back to clients.

DBS seems like the best place for retail banking right now, their borrowing cost is perhaps the most competitive around, and they are bookmakers for a large part of SG issues which might translate to guaranteed allocation perhaps?

[banana55]

I have done a lot of Dual currency in 2011 in PB. At that time, the VIX is there & U can get 6 to 12% yield with a reasonable strike . I make almost S$28k. My banker was very happy with me as I did a total of 70 DCI trades with him. In 2012, I just make S$15k.

But in 2013/2014, the VIX is so low that it is not worth doing DCI (FCI). I occasionally do some DCI just to give my banker some "biz".

In 2012, I open an small acct (S$12k) with Saxo to trade FX as I thought I am some experience. I make only S$6k doing 80 trades as my strike price is very very conservative (low yield).But in 2013, I lost $12k to Yen/USD pair when ABE become PM . He goes into big QE. Luckily, I have the courage to cut lost. Has stop trading at Saxo since 2013.

My biz friend told me his former classmate sold his company to a big investor many years back. With the huge amt of money he got. He decided to enrol in professional FX course & under study with a professional trader in London. So he stayed in London for 2 yrs & finally back to SG with full of confidence that he will make money in FX trade. After many years of trading FX, he just shake his head & said he is not making $$$.

I believe you can make big in FX but not by trading. U will lose in long run. There is only two big opportunity where U can make really big money.

In 2011 Swiss Franc/USD was at 73 (now 90). The Swiss government is screaming & warned the speculator at that time.

In 2012 when Yen/USD was 75 (now 101). Many Jap biz is screaming for Jap government to intervention.

Euro/USD pair (1.19) needs really a big courage to bet against further weaken in 2011 at that time. Now 1.36

You take care of your banker, and he must love you for giving him the occasional business. As you have rightly pointed out, dual currency pairings are volatility dependant since it involves selling options, this contributes to a large part of the total yield of the trade. So am I getting it right that the 2012 positive returns on Saxo involved dabbling with FX options? Last I checked they offered Euro style options, not something I would prefer over American style, but then I'm not an options kind of guy so I generally avoid them altogether in most cases.

FX is one of the instruments after equities where most people get acquainted with at some point. Some see it as a different animal altogether, others would prefer to think that it is a different animal after being bitten (say 2008/9 GFC), but if you asked me, I think every instrument is the same when laid onto a chart. Surely there are its own intricacies between instrument classes, and it might not be too far off to say that no 2 minds might formulate the same opinion from the same chart, it however works for me, and I if the charts says no, then I don't go. It's the only timing tool that I am aware of.

Fundamentals do work, but lack timing ability in most cases, it's often lagging due to limited reporting cycles, tedious to compile, and behind every excel spreadsheet model is filled with more assumptions than preservatives in out food, hence like with technical charts it's difficult to find 2 analyst coming to identical consensus at the same point in time.

So third comes instinct or feel. Hard to determine whether it's nature or nurture, but without it, there is no edge. But combined with either one of the above, I think the individual should at very least tread safely. It has to be reiterated that one should be doing the analysis on his own, reading another's report is not the same thing as some might believe. From here, inter-market analysis becomes easier as we move from one instrument class to another as the action is hardly static.

[wcd76]

Hi all,


I recently bought a hdb bond maturing in 2021. It is not the one that is recently launched. I wanted to see if I could only cough up 20% of the amount needed but was told I could not do that with any of the local banks. Is this true? I did this with uob.

Hi all, appreciate if someone can enlighten me about this.

[banana55]

Thanks both.

I remember during the Olam saga, I did ask for some quotes, but the DBS prices were around 2.5% more than the Bloomberg prices most of the time.

Personally, I feel DBS has the best IPO allocations of the local banks, and are most willing to make a price. But I also get the feeling that quite a lot of the time, I am buying bonds held by their treasury, rather than them going out to try to find external counterparties for me.

Perhaps you might want to ask them to breakdown the final figure quoted into actual executed price and commission spreads? Hope this might help.

[banana55]

Hi all, appreciate if someone can enlighten me about this.

Sounds like an LTV question, I'm not good in this area. I think previously I was told SCB offered leverage for bonds, but every bank will have their own criteria for which bonds are entitled to leverage and how much could be offered behind the specific bond. You would have to get UOB's word on this.

[Werther]

Is it risky yo buy this

2.5 periodic callable kick in variable maturity worst of equity linked notes with fixed coupon - 6% yield, by UBS.

[cbsh38584]

Is it risky yo buy this

2.5 periodic callable kick in variable maturity worst of equity linked notes with fixed coupon - 6% yield, by UBS.

This is a structure product.
A structured product ties up your money for a set time and might be designed to give you income, growth or both. Structured products are complex and can be more risky than they seem, so get professional financial advice if you’re not sure whether they’re right for you.

It is not suitable for you. Pls avoid. Stay what you know best unless U want to "pay school fee" to learn.

[cbsh38584]

Today, new issued Trikosmel 7.875% area. SGD bond 3 yrs. Zero LTV at SC. Still checking at other bank. High yield high risk.

[cbsh38584]

You take care of your banker, and he must love you for giving him the occasional business. As you have rightly pointed out, dual currency pairings are volatility dependant since it involves selling options, this contributes to a large part of the total yield of the trade. So am I getting it right that the 2012 positive returns on Saxo involved dabbling with FX options? Last I checked they offered Euro style options, not something I would prefer over American style, but then I'm not an options kind of guy so I generally avoid them altogether in most cases.

FX is one of the instruments after equities where most people get acquainted with at some point. Some see it as a different animal altogether, others would prefer to think that it is a different animal after being bitten (say 2008/9 GFC), but if you asked me, I think every instrument is the same when laid onto a chart. Surely there are its own intricacies between instrument classes, and it might not be too far off to say that no 2 minds might formulate the same opinion from the same chart, it however works for me, and I if the charts says no, then I don't go. It's the only timing tool that I am aware of.

Fundamentals do work, but lack timing ability in most cases, it's often lagging due to limited reporting cycles, tedious to compile, and behind every excel spreadsheet model is filled with more assumptions than preservatives in out food, hence like with technical charts it's difficult to find 2 analyst coming to identical consensus at the same point in time.

So third comes instinct or feel. Hard to determine whether it's nature or nurture, but without it, there is no edge. But combined with either one of the above, I think the individual should at very least tread safely. It has to be reiterated that one should be doing the analysis on his own, reading another's report is not the same thing as some might believe. From here, inter-market analysis becomes easier as we move from one instrument class to another as the action is hardly static.

Again. Thank for sharing your trading experience.
FX is no more for me now unless I see a real opportunity.

[wcd76]

Sounds like an LTV question, I'm not good in this area. I think previously I was told SCB offered leverage for bonds, but every bank will have their own criteria for which bonds are entitled to leverage and how much could be offered behind the specific bond. You would have to get UOB's word on this.

Thank you for your reply.

My rm mentioned that I would need to apply for some credit facility with the bank only after buying the bond.

[banana55]

Thank you for your reply.

My rm mentioned that I would need to apply for some credit facility with the bank only after buying the bond.

Doesn't come with surprised. I've heard of share financing, where equities are placed with the lending bank's custodian and they lend u about 70% against valuation of the equities. The bottom line is whether the financing rate might defeat the coupon, rendering the whole exercise a futile effort considering that its a HDB bond so coupons are on the lower side.

[Werther]

This is a structure product.
A structured product ties up your money for a set time and might be designed to give you income, growth or both. Structured products are complex and can be more risky than they seem, so get professional financial advice if you’re not sure whether they’re right for you.

It is not suitable for you. Pls avoid. Stay what you know best unless U want to "pay school fee" to learn.

Thanks cbsh.

Just getting impatient... Funds not growing but inflation is .

Need to find yield product.... Like product but can't buy. Sigh

[chestnut]

Thanks cbsh.

Just getting impatient... Funds not growing but inflation is .

Need to find yield product.... Like product but can't buy. Sigh

Werther, you ask questions like "is it safe".... Honestly, everything is a risk... it all depends on the level of risk...

You need to specialize.... say stocks, bonds, properties, etc...

You need to understand if you want more capital gains or more dividends/coupons or a mix of both. You need to know if you want leverage or not???? you need to understand your financial "mid/end point".

What is safe today may not be safe tomorrow... Say bonds, should interest rate spike, current bonds will start losing its value to make it more attractive from a yield perspective...

you need to understand the product you want to invest in and understand the elements that may/will affect its up or down. measure the likeliness of such occurance and see if you want to add more or remove from your portfolio...

Specialize in one instrument first... then when you ask questions, you will get answers which will help you make a judgement call....