Do you believe MOM's study that CPF is enough for retirement?

[phantom_opera]

http://www.todayonline.com/Singapore...ent--MOM-study

Minister said MOM's new study is that young people should be able to rely on CPF for retirement ...

I think I am not old also not young, I have topped up my CPF to hit minimum sum as well as help my non-working wife to top up

Why it does not look like I can retire with CPF in 15-20y time hah??

Other than CPF SA/MA, my CPF OA is near zero servicing properties so where got enough hah?

MOM please show your study leh ...

[Arcachon]

http://www.asiaone.com/Business/News...02-343523.html

Same, same.

[phantom_opera]

I use a compound interest calculator

if starting off at 150k CPF SA+MA at age of 35, every month add $500 (assume CPF OA is used to pay properties), after 20y, it comes out to half a million

even assume dual income, it will come to 1m

1 million 20y later probably has the same purchasing power of 500k today

20y later, buy one car probably 200k already, one HDB probably 1.5m, MM condo can be 2m, one plate of chicken rice min $6

giving extra 1% interest for the first 60k in CPF does help ... but what they should do is give extra 1% interest on the minimum sum instead

[carbuncle]

same thing as saying 1k can afford hdb flat

[august]

I use a compound interest calculator

if starting off at 150k CPF SA+MA at age of 35, every month add $500 (assume CPF OA is used to pay properties), after 20y, it comes out to half a million

even assume dual income, it will come to 1m

1 million 20y later probably has the same purchasing power of 500k today

20y later, buy one car probably 200k already, one HDB probably 1.5m, MM condo can be 2m, one plate of chicken rice min $6

giving extra 1% interest for the first 60k in CPF does help ... but what they should do is give extra 1% interest on the minimum sum instead

aiya dont bother to work out the numbers until they show the study.

otherwise is just another propaganda for the masses.

[ikan bilis]

umm.... my case...


if, leave my cpf $$ inside an hdb... sure enough for retirement...
if, return all my cpf $$ to me now and let me manage myself,... sure will become >2x enough for retirement...
if, leave it in OA/SA/MA of 2.5-4% interest,... BIG question arh !!!....

[phantom_opera]

umm.... my case...


if, leave my cpf $$ inside an hdb... sure enough for retirement...
if, return all my cpf $$ to me now and let me manage myself,... sure will become >2x enough for retirement...
if, leave it in OA/SA/MA of 2.5-4% interest,... BIG question arh !!!....

Why leave CPF in your HDB enough for retirement?

Actually hoh, if they allow CPF SA (minus first 60k) to buy STI ETF ... problem solved. Instead they only allow you to buy some stupid funds that charge so much fees and less transparent

[ikan bilis]

Why leave CPF in your HDB enough for retirement?

Actually hoh, if they allow CPF SA (minus first 60k) to buy STI ETF ... problem solved. Instead they only allow you to buy some stupid funds that charge so much fees and less transparent

i tot you can use SA to buy STI-ETF ??... (some managed funds, you cannot buy stock except that STI-ETF??)....

[phantom_opera]

i tot you can use SA to buy STI-ETF ??... (some managed funds, you cannot buy stock except that STI-ETF??)....

Are u sure? anybody here did that? if confirmed tomorrow I will go open CPFIS-SA account with my bank

I thought STI ETF only possible with CPFIS-OA

[ikan bilis]

Are u sure? anybody here did that? if confirmed tomorrow I will go open CPFIS-SA account with my bank

I thought STI ETF only possible with CPFIS-OA

google-d but some say can, some say cannot...

check this tankinlian blog... said cannot
http://tankinlian.blogspot.sg/2011/0...s-sti-etf.html

check this 1, said can...
http://finance-attachment-light.blog...l-account.html

heehee... pls tell me after your find out later....

[phantom_opera]

Most likely cannot ... it is really stupid, they classify STI ETF as high risk (oh i c, they expect STI ETF to return < 4% in the long term even with dividend??)

http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/NR/rdonlyres...57F4/0/etf.pdf

above said currently the two ETFs are only available in CPFIS-OA ...

I already sent them an enquiry, will share later

[Regulators]

How does cpf provide for retirement when it is our own money to begin with? Govt pays civil servants a pension using money from govt coffers, so how can money we are forced to contribute into cpf every month be even considered a pension when we are effectively paying ourselves? Cpf is the most terrible flaw in our system.

[phantom_opera]

CPF used to pay very good interest until they allow CPF OA to buy properties then suddenly the interest rate drops to pathetic 2.5% for CPF OA in early 199x

http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/NR/rdonlyres...terestRate.pdf

[Regulators]

when you sell your house and money go into cpf, why do they make you pay back the accrued interest? Shouldn't the government be paying you that interest?

CPF used to pay very good interest until they allow CPF OA to buy properties then suddenly the interest rate drops to pathetic 2.5% for CPF OA in early 199x

http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/NR/rdonlyres...terestRate.pdf

[eng81157]

How does cpf provide for retirement when it is our own money to begin with? Govt pays civil servants a pension using money from govt coffers, so how can money we are forced to contribute into cpf every month be even considered a pension when we are effectively paying ourselves? Cpf is the most terrible flaw in our system.

it's merely a convenient excuse to use our monies for their purposes. it's stupid when my government tells me how i can utilize my money after retirement, via an annuity plan. it's stupid when parents use their CPF to pay for their kids tertiary education, only for the government to hound the kids to pay back the sum (plus interests), even after parents opt to write off the debt. it's stupid when temasek and gic squander citizens' hardearn-ed in doofus investments (don't get me started).

[phantom_opera]

actually I don't mind the annuity if it has economic of scale and bring down insurance cost ..... i will choose the plan that leaves nothing for my children though

[eng81157]

actually I don't mind the annuity if it has economic of scale and bring down insurance cost ..... i will choose the plan that leaves nothing for my children though

the fact that i can't choose, whether to have an annuity plan or not, irks me.

are you going to be like those american tycoons that will their entire fortune to charitable causes and leave nothing for your descendents?

[ikan bilis]

it's merely a convenient excuse to use our monies for their purposes. it's stupid when my government tells me how i can utilize my money after retirement, via an annuity plan. it's stupid when parents use their CPF to pay for their kids tertiary education, only for the government to hound the kids to pay back the sum (plus interests), even after parents opt to write off the debt. it's stupid when temasek and gic squander citizens' hardearn-ed in doofus investments (don't get me started).

... sigh !!.... retirement ??... sigh !!....

"80 year old Singaporean dishwasher dropped dead at workplace"...

may be i better stay in jb when old...

[phantom_opera]

the fact that i can't choose, whether to have an annuity plan or not, irks me.

are you going to be like those american tycoons that will their entire fortune to charitable causes and leave nothing for your descendents?

I am too poor at least will leave a property or two to my children loh ... but definitely will try to spend away all CPF + cash + bonds

[smallant]

I believe .. I believe that pigs can fly... Work happily till We die..
:-)$$

[Hiroaki27]

I would rather born poor than die rich.

[Regulators]

they really think we brainless....why do we need to pay back the accrued interest using our own money when government suppose to pay us the interest to help us save more? We use our own money they still want us to pay our own interest, so where is the logic??? Don't mind me saying, but cpf really a fxxkd up system

it's merely a convenient excuse to use our monies for their purposes. it's stupid when my government tells me how i can utilize my money after retirement, via an annuity plan. it's stupid when parents use their CPF to pay for their kids tertiary education, only for the government to hound the kids to pay back the sum (plus interests), even after parents opt to write off the debt. it's stupid when temasek and gic squander citizens' hardearn-ed in doofus investments (don't get me started).

[amk]

I do not agree with this strange MOM "finding"... I din know what assumption they use...
However, to say e whole CPF system is f*** up, is too much. I think it is a good system. Much better than the western pension system.
At least with CPF system, we have "quasi"ownership of our money. Look for most practical purpose, you can use it. In Europe, the contribution goes to a bottomless pit, and you dun even have any sense of ownership. Every one takes it as gone money.
now u will say they get free healthcare in return. Sure, looks like. But that is not a sustainable model, as evident by today's Europe debt crisis.

The biggest mistake made in CPF history, IMO, was allowing using CPF to buy property. This should have never been allowed.

[phantom_opera]

I do not agree with this strange MOM "finding"... I din know what assumption they use...
However, to say e whole CPF system is f*** up, is too much. I think it is a good system. Much better than the western pension system.
At least with CPF system, we have "quasi"ownership of our money. Look for most practical purpose, you can use it. In Europe, the contribution goes to a bottomless pit, and you dun even have any sense of ownership. Every one takes it as gone money.
now u will say they get free healthcare in return. Sure, looks like. But that is not a sustainable model, as evident by today's Europe debt crisis.

The biggest mistake made in CPF history, IMO, was allowing using CPF to buy property. This should have never been allowed.

Totally agree with last sentence ... it is the road of no return,the resulting property bubble of 1992-1996 is really outrageous

[PN]

I would rather born poor than die rich.

I would rather born rich than die poor.

[Regulators]

You are comparing with the western pension system, but nobody said the western pension system is good in the first place. The saddest thing is cpf is nowhere even near a pension system, the only true pension is available to the selected in the civil service where govt pays you a monthly sum every month without the person having to contribute money on his own.

I do not agree with this strange MOM "finding"... I din know what assumption they use...
However, to say e whole CPF system is f*** up, is too much. I think it is a good system. Much better than the western pension system.
At least with CPF system, we have "quasi"ownership of our money. Look for most practical purpose, you can use it. In Europe, the contribution goes to a bottomless pit, and you dun even have any sense of ownership. Every one takes it as gone money.
now u will say they get free healthcare in return. Sure, looks like. But that is not a sustainable model, as evident by today's Europe debt crisis.

The biggest mistake made in CPF history, IMO, was allowing using CPF to buy property. This should have never been allowed.

[eng81157]

our political leaders have already warned us about having to raise taxes to fund increases in social spending. even without having a universal healthcare coverage like in Europe, we are presented with the scenario that healthcare costs is unsustainable. is it true?

how about stashing away less of nation's surpluses? or provide less ammo for the temasek and gic, which ultimately squander away in stupid investments?

how about emulating the nordic countries? i don't mind paying high taxes, if i know that my family's healthcare is taken care of, my children's education is provided for, national monies are used to help the less privileged, etc etc.

[stl67]

I do not agree with this strange MOM "finding"... I din know what assumption they use...
However, to say e whole CPF system is f*** up, is too much. I think it is a good system. Much better than the western pension system.
At least with CPF system, we have "quasi"ownership of our money. Look for most practical purpose, you can use it. In Europe, the contribution goes to a bottomless pit, and you dun even have any sense of ownership. Every one takes it as gone money.
now u will say they get free healthcare in return. Sure, looks like. But that is not a sustainable model, as evident by today's Europe debt crisis.

The biggest mistake made in CPF history, IMO, was allowing using CPF to buy property. This should have never been allowed.

Agree with you. ask the Aussie what they think of the super Annuation fund compare to our CPF?
To some, the CPF is uselesss because these people are educated and know how to invest for better returns... to others not so educated one, i think CPF at least makes some sense.. if CPF don't control, more Ah Peh's would have lose their CPF money to more china mei mei (years back was malaysia's hair dresser, singer....)

where got 100% free medical care.. still got to use own money to buy medical insurance.. dont' belive check with your aussie counterparts...
not sure if european is the same

[eng81157]

Agree with you. ask the Aussie what they think of the super Annuation fund compare to our CPF?
To some, the CPF is uselesss because these people are educated and know how to invest for better returns... to others not so educated one, i think CPF at least makes some sense.. if CPF don't control, more Ah Peh's would have lose their CPF money to more china mei mei (years back was malaysia's hair dresser, singer....)

where got 100% free medical care.. still got to use own money to buy medical insurance.. dont' belive check with your aussie counterparts...
not sure if european is the same

well, show me statistics that the amount of monies lost to china mei-meis, singers, blah blah blah, are serious enough to warrant the implementation of a compulsory annuity system. if you want my money to fund stupid investments, say so. if it's to protect stupid uncles from squandering their hard-earned CPF, why can't it be an opt-in system? casinos are social-ills but yet application for entry bars are optional.

in australia, insurance is meant to provide coverage for areas where the
public healthcare system is lacking. if the condition is non-acute and can afford to wait, can always hinge on public healthcare.

a true story to share. dad's friend got diagnosed with leukemia and needs a bone marrow transplant. went to SGH and hospital demanded $100k deposit as guarantee, or else the operation cannot proceed. guess what? the poor folk does not have $100k stashed in his bank account, and so has to walk away and wait for his impending demise.

[stl67]

our political leaders have already warned us about having to raise taxes to fund increases in social spending. even without having a universal healthcare coverage like in Europe, we are presented with the scenario that healthcare costs is unsustainable. is it true?

how about stashing away less of nation's surpluses? or provide less ammo for the temasek and gic, which ultimately squander away in stupid investments?

how about emulating the nordic countries? i don't mind paying high taxes, if i know that my family's healthcare is taken care of, my children's education is provided for, national monies are used to help the less privileged, etc etc.

we have visitors from europes and once awhile from australia.. most complain about the high taxes.. blah blah thought it is true education and medical are free. but with high taxes there is little saving at the end of the day.. some of them rent instead of owning a piece of property...
so i find it surprise that you dont mind our system emulating the nordic countries. but you might have better experience as I have not been to these countries.

but maybe people sometime complain for the sake of complaining like those european visitors we have in our company...