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Thread: D21 Toh Tuck / Jurong kechil area - freehold or 99 years?

  1. #1
    ko Guest

    Default D21 Toh Tuck / Jurong kechil area - freehold or 99 years?

    Hi,

    I have been viewing some units along toh tuck area / jalan jurong kechil area.
    what are the implications of getting a 99 leashold versus a freehold property in that area ? Does this mean that a 99 year will go down in value over time ?
    e.g. High Oak condo ( 99 year) versus Signature Park condo ( FH) .. there is a vast difference in terms of pricing now, though both are about 6 years old.

    Also, for bukit regency condo (FH) is this worth buying ? I was told that this property can go up to 1 million in pricing soon according to one property agent.

    Pls advise.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    25

    Default Re: D21 Toh Tuck / Jurong kechil area - freehold or 99 years?

    Quote Originally Posted by ko
    Hi,

    I have been viewing some units along toh tuck area / jalan jurong kechil area.
    what are the implications of getting a 99 leashold versus a freehold property in that area ? Does this mean that a 99 year will go down in value over time ?
    e.g. High Oak condo ( 99 year) versus Signature Park condo ( FH) .. there is a vast difference in terms of pricing now, though both are about 6 years old.

    Also, for bukit regency condo (FH) is this worth buying ? I was told that this property can go up to 1 million in pricing soon according to one property agent.

    Pls advise.
    Signature Park is definitely more than 6 yrs. At least 10 yrs old.

  3. #3
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: D21 Toh Tuck / Jurong kechil area - freehold or 99 years?

    Quote Originally Posted by revieli
    Signature Park is definitely more than 6 yrs. At least 10 yrs old.
    It will be too risky to buy signature park now as asking prices had increased by more than 35% since February. When the MRT is built, I doubt it will be that close to signature park. If it takes 15mins to walk, I would not consider close to MRT

  4. #4
    hillside Guest

    Default Re: D21 Toh Tuck / Jurong kechil area - freehold or 99 years?

    I still think The Hillside is better than all those you mentioned.

  5. #5
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: D21 Toh Tuck / Jurong kechil area - freehold or 99 years?

    Where is the future MRT going to be built ? I heard it's opp the Bt Timah food center ? If it is, high oak condo is about 1 km away.

    Personally, I do not fancy the hillside or hillview area because of a lack of amenties and price wise not sure if it will appreciate much in the future.

  6. #6
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: D21 Toh Tuck / Jurong kechil area - freehold or 99 years?

    when the whole spore is on the rise, everywhere will go up.
    traditionally, after district 9, 10, 11... you'll have 15 and 21 catching up.
    of course today, you also hv new areas like the marina and keppel bay.... also not forgetting district 5 due to one north.
    if jurong and tampines can go up.... district 21 will hv no prob catching up.

  7. #7
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: D21 Toh Tuck / Jurong kechil area - freehold or 99 years?

    D21 is quite wide scope - spanning from king albert park all the way to hume ave at upper bt timah .. within this district, which location will be of better value in terms of price appreciation and rental yield ? Looking at garden vista 99 year, the price has gone up to 1 million for a 3 bedroom, and the FH around that area is now 1.x million for a 3 bedroom be it new or old FH property along that area .. Hume avenue area prices doesn;'t appear to have gone up much though.

  8. #8
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: D21 Toh Tuck / Jurong kechil area - freehold or 99 years?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    D21 is quite wide scope - spanning from king albert park all the way to hume ave at upper bt timah .. within this district, which location will be of better value in terms of price appreciation and rental yield ? Looking at garden vista 99 year, the price has gone up to 1 million for a 3 bedroom, and the FH around that area is now 1.x million for a 3 bedroom be it new or old FH property along that area .. Hume avenue area prices doesn;'t appear to have gone up much though.
    i have done some homework in this area and i think the raintree (behind southaven) offers good value at this time.

  9. #9
    yulishu Guest

    Default Re: D21 Toh Tuck / Jurong kechil area - freehold or 99 years?

    actually leasehold and freehold should not be a concern if you dont mind staying in that project for good, at least until it grows old enough to be enbloc in future...with this round of enbloc fevers, everyone now knows that leasehold is not the end of the world... and esp now that the gap between leasehold and freehold is widening and with freehold reaching quantum beyond some folks' pockets..

    but depending on investment or stay, your choice of location is important...but if to stay for short period, depending on the quantum at play in the market, then leasehold factor may come into play...

  10. #10
    Unregistered Guest

    Default Re: D21 Toh Tuck / Jurong kechil area - freehold or 99 years?

    Quote Originally Posted by yulishu
    actually leasehold and freehold should not be a concern if you dont mind staying in that project for good, at least until it grows old enough to be enbloc in future...with this round of enbloc fevers, everyone now knows that leasehold is not the end of the world... and esp now that the gap between leasehold and freehold is widening and with freehold reaching quantum beyond some folks' pockets..

    but depending on investment or stay, your choice of location is important...but if to stay for short period, depending on the quantum at play in the market, then leasehold factor may come into play...
    Agree,
    Farrer court not only is leasehold, it is HUDC apt with limited facility.
    Last year this time if you bought a unit (transacted price at that time was around 600K), you made close to million. Show me one FH less than one million last year but ended up with this kind of profit (300%) in just one yr.
    The Farrer court example really excited every Ah Beng and Ah Lian on the street and everyone is busy in searching the next winner. At this point in time, the risk/reward ratios is already too high and the party for buying a property has potential for enbloc is over

  11. #11
    analyst101 Guest

    Cool Bukit Timah Line

    The stations on the Bukit Timah Lines are out. FOr those who once visted this forum and debated the likely locations, the winners for D21 are

    a) MGS site
    b) Beauty World site

    The winners for D23 are:

    a) Rail Mall Site
    b) Assumption School site.

  12. #12
    Bukit Timah best Guest

    Default

    This will undoubtedly be the most prestigious MRT line. Live here sure confirm quite rich one or upper middle class. The Hillview site is near Hillview Road where Stand Chartered is. Wonder if Stand Chart need to move. I'm surprised Anak Bukit no station though.

    Quote Originally Posted by analyst101
    The stations on the Bukit Timah Lines are out. FOr those who once visted this forum and debated the likely locations, the winners for D21 are

    a) MGS site
    b) Beauty World site

    The winners for D23 are:

    a) Rail Mall Site
    b) Assumption School site.

  13. #13
    No more enbloc lah Guest

    Default

    you're not using your brain properly. Of all the enblocs last year, how many are leasehold? I know you're gg to bring up Farrer Court again, but it is sitting on a huge plot of land when plot ratio is NOT fully utlitised. If you buy a brand new condo 99 LH, what is the chance of enbloc when every square inch is used?

    Why is Farrer Court so famous? Because it is LH! which means enbloc is rare for LH....Most enblocs are FH. Property developers have learnt their lessons and steering away from enblocs.

    For every 1 person who gets enbloced, another 100,000 didn't. It's like striking lottery. The fever happens one every 20 years. After three 20 years, no chance liao as your lease has run out. If your condo is old, you may have to enbloc at a discount to market, which means you're better off selling at the market.

    For every 1 person who gets enbloced, another 100,000 didn't and will never get enbloced in their lifetime. Do you want to bet on this?

    Quote Originally Posted by yulishu
    actually leasehold and freehold should not be a concern if you dont mind staying in that project for good, at least until it grows old enough to be enbloc in future...with this round of enbloc fevers, everyone now knows that leasehold is not the end of the world... and esp now that the gap between leasehold and freehold is widening and with freehold reaching quantum beyond some folks' pockets..

    but depending on investment or stay, your choice of location is important...but if to stay for short period, depending on the quantum at play in the market, then leasehold factor may come into play...

  14. #14
    analyst101 Guest

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Bukit Timah best
    This will undoubtedly be the most prestigious MRT line. Live here sure confirm quite rich one or upper middle class. The Hillview site is near Hillview Road where Stand Chartered is. Wonder if Stand Chart need to move. I'm surprised Anak Bukit no station though.
    There is quite a long stretch (from Beauty World) to Dairy Farm not covered. I presume that the population density is insufficient, or that there are not even commercial or educational centres.

    For the contrarian, it is time to look at properties near those identified MRT sites. Beauty World onwards is most attractive as the main Bukit Timah stations will be very expensive.

    The interesting thing is that the stations are all underground. The Beauty World one is in fact under a vast plot of vacant state land. My guess is that when the crisis is over, the Government may tender out the plot to build commercial properties. May be worth a look over the next one or two years (before the world economy recovers).

    Any views ??

  15. #15
    Yes Sir Guest

    Default

    I agree. Now is a good time to look in this area near MRT. The prices will only move up in a meaningful way nearer completion date as market reacts slowly to such news. Not many condos near Beauty World though. If you're looking at Hillside which confirm cannot get MRT, might as well go to Hillview which is cheaper currently and more accessible to both public transport and future commercial activities. I'm not surprised everything is underground as this part is "expensive" land, many are FH.

    Quote Originally Posted by analyst101
    There is quite a long stretch (from Beauty World) to Dairy Farm not covered. I presume that the population density is insufficient, or that there are not even commercial or educational centres.

    For the contrarian, it is time to look at properties near those identified MRT sites. Beauty World onwards is most attractive as the main Bukit Timah stations will be very expensive.

    The interesting thing is that the stations are all underground. The Beauty World one is in fact under a vast plot of vacant state land. My guess is that when the crisis is over, the Government may tender out the plot to build commercial properties. May be worth a look over the next one or two years (before the world economy recovers).

    Any views ??

  16. #16
    005 Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bukit Timah best
    This will undoubtedly be the most prestigious MRT line. Live here sure confirm quite rich one or upper middle class. The Hillview site is near Hillview Road where Stand Chartered is. Wonder if Stand Chart need to move. I'm surprised Anak Bukit no station though.
    No lah! It's across the road, next to salvation army at the junction of UBT and Hillview Road, nearest by foot is Glendale Park & Hillview Height condos and Dairy Farm condo. a bit further off is hillington green, hillview park. those on hume from summerhill, symphony, parc palais need to walk down the hill and pass by rail mall. all in all, a good announcement and a good location. good news for UBT people.

  17. #17
    Unregistered13 Guest

    Default

    I was at URA centre yesterday and saw a building block model on the vacant land opposite beauty world. It has about the same height as beauty world. The plan state "subject to detailed planning". How about the freehold development, bukit regency, on the same side as Courts atabout 650m from this future MRT? Do you see an increase in the price in the near future?

  18. #18
    Good news Guest

    Default

    Those on the top of Hume will be very far, e.g Symphony and Parc Palais. I think within walking distance would be Glendale Pk (so lucky!), Hillview Hts, Dairy Farm, HV Park, Hillington and HV Green, Summerhill, Hillvista. Everything else would appear quite far. But agree its great for this area!

    Quote Originally Posted by 005
    No lah! It's across the road, next to salvation army at the junction of UBT and Hillview Road, nearest by foot is Glendale Park & Hillview Height condos and Dairy Farm condo. a bit further off is hillington green, hillview park. those on hume from summerhill, symphony, parc palais need to walk down the hill and pass by rail mall. all in all, a good announcement and a good location. good news for UBT people.

  19. #19
    beauty world Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered13
    I was at URA centre yesterday and saw a building block model on the vacant land opposite beauty world. It has about the same height as beauty world. The plan state "subject to detailed planning". How about the freehold development, bukit regency, on the same side as Courts atabout 650m from this future MRT? Do you see an increase in the price in the near future?

    This Beauty World area is something of a hub already (with a couple of shopping centres, eateries, furniture places, market e.t.c.). It is like a town centre that was not planned, but just happened to evolve by itself.

    I think that this has good potential when the state land use is confirmed...may be another mall or library .....great for this part of Singapore.

  20. #20
    beauty or beast Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by beauty world
    This Beauty World area is something of a hub already (with a couple of shopping centres, eateries, furniture places, market e.t.c.). It is like a town centre that was not planned, but just happened to evolve by itself.

    I think that this has good potential when the state land use is confirmed...may be another mall or library .....great for this part of Singapore.
    Simi hub? Dun make me laugh. Beauty World has potential to be upscale due to location but dunno why the management dunno how to capitalise on it. Stupid. So low class lah.

  21. #21
    Too upmarket Guest

    Default

    Actually I hope this area don't get too upmarket. It is already too upmarket for my liking with the most expensive NTUC.

    Quote Originally Posted by beauty or beast
    Simi hub? Dun make me laugh. Beauty World has potential to be upscale due to location but dunno why the management dunno how to capitalise on it. Stupid. So low class lah.

  22. #22
    Unregistered18 Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by beauty or beast
    Simi hub? Dun make me laugh. Beauty World has potential to be upscale due to location but dunno why the management dunno how to capitalise on it. Stupid. So low class lah.
    Beauty World is like the boundary between the super-ex Bukit Timah properties, and the more affordable Hillview areas. The prices taper the further `North' you go from Beauty World.

    I think the problem so far has been that the Government has not really taken much of a lead here. They generally let the private sector lead. However things may change. For those in the know, the Jurong (MINDS) school has already been relocated. Now with info that the large vacant plot sitting on top of the MRT is likely to become some kind of building (almost definitely commercial in view of its location and potential), the Government may finally be doing somthing about it. Couple of years ago they said that they would be developing this area. Looks like it is slowly coming true.

  23. #23
    Price differential Guest

    Default

    Jurong Kechil properties have not fetched much higher prices than Hillview if you bother to track caveats. In fact, many of the condos in Jurong Kechil are fetching lower prices than Hillview area - might be because many HDB along Toh Yi while Hillview is truly private. Now that the condos are gg to be quite far from actual beauty world MRT, it's possible that the Hillview properties might move even further ahead, Anyway, no point speculating on an empty plot of land.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered18
    Beauty World is like the boundary between the super-ex Bukit Timah properties, and the more affordable Hillview areas. The prices taper the further `North' you go from Beauty World.

    I think the problem so far has been that the Government has not really taken much of a lead here. They generally let the private sector lead. However things may change. For those in the know, the Jurong (MINDS) school has already been relocated. Now with info that the large vacant plot sitting on top of the MRT is likely to become some kind of building (almost definitely commercial in view of its location and potential), the Government may finally be doing somthing about it. Couple of years ago they said that they would be developing this area. Looks like it is slowly coming true.

  24. #24
    Downtown Guest

    Default

    That is true. Many Hillview or Hume properties eg Hillington, Symphony Heights etc. already fetch better prices than those near Beauty World, e.g. Bukit View, Sherwood etc. The condos are of a superior quality too. Anyway, I think it is VERY FAR to try to walk from Bukit Regency which is nearer Bukit Batok Ave 6. Also not much land or facility.

  25. #25
    DC33 Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Downtown
    That is true. Many Hillview or Hume properties eg Hillington, Symphony Heights etc. already fetch better prices than those near Beauty World, e.g. Bukit View, Sherwood etc. The condos are of a superior quality too. Anyway, I think it is VERY FAR to try to walk from Bukit Regency which is nearer Bukit Batok Ave 6. Also not much land or facility.
    Bukit Regency at Upper Bukit Timah View is just opposite Southaven (near the Shell Petrol Kiosk) not near Bukit Batok Ave 6.

  26. #26
    Take bus Guest

    Default

    Still long walk as it is nearer the Old Jurong Road and fire station side. There is no MRT near fire station. Probably need to walk 1 km at least to Beauty World station which is near Toh Yi side. But can take shuttle bus one station. Those at Hume can take buses to Hillview MRT station - 1 busttop away.

    Quote Originally Posted by DC33
    Bukit Regency at Upper Bukit Timah View is just opposite Southaven (near the Shell Petrol Kiosk) not near Bukit Batok Ave 6.

  27. #27
    analyst101 Guest

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Take bus
    Still long walk as it is nearer the Old Jurong Road and fire station side. There is no MRT near fire station. Probably need to walk 1 km at least to Beauty World station which is near Toh Yi side. But can take shuttle bus one station. Those at Hume can take buses to Hillview MRT station - 1 busttop away.
    The entire stretch of Upper BT from Beauty World onwards is actually quite long. Yet there are only 3 MRT stations there. For most of the condos, the walk may be a little long. More so, as many of the condos are on the hill and the `wrong side' of the road.

    Perhaps should ask the town councils to build as many overhead shelters or underpasses as possible, so as to make walking more feasible. This can be done closer to MRT completion date.

  28. #28
    Undervalued Guest

    Default

    Far means far - whether underground or overground. Hume Ave is 2 bus stops away from Hillview station - too far to walk. Anything more than 10 min will be considered far and will have zero effect on property price. Interestingly, the Hillview properties are still 10% cheaper than Hume properties because of some people who wans to say "D21" which is really silly. In view of the Hillview station, we can be certain that the Hillview condos *near MRT) will definitely fetch a higher price (at least 10% more) nearer to completion date. So Hillview appears undervalued at this point. It would be unwise to buy a Hume condo, e.g. Symphony Hts at a 10% premium to those at Hillview (near MRT), knowing in future, it will have to sell cheaper than Hillview If a Hume condo is worth $700psf, the Hillview one should be at least 10% more at $770psf. Just look at Jade - 99 yr LH near Bukit Batok transacted at 800psf and you'll see how impt is "MRT". District zoning is secondary as people look at the attibutes of the place. Just like Kembangan with MRT (D14) will always fetch a premium to Telok Kurau (D15).


    Quote Originally Posted by analyst101
    The entire stretch of Upper BT from Beauty World onwards is actually quite long. Yet there are only 3 MRT stations there. For most of the condos the walk may be a little long. More so, as many of the condos are on the hill and the `wrong side' of the road.

    Perhaps should ask the town councils to build as many overhead shelters or underpasses as possible, so as to make walking more feasible. This can be done closer to MRT completion date.

  29. #29
    DC33 Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Take bus
    Still long walk as it is nearer the Old Jurong Road and fire station side. There is no MRT near fire station. Probably need to walk 1 km at least to Beauty World station which is near Toh Yi side. But can take shuttle bus one station. Those at Hume can take buses to Hillview MRT station - 1 busttop away.
    I have measured the distance, it is about 850m from the guardhouse of Bukit Regency and 600m if there is a side-door opened at the front of development facing the road. A stroll to Beauty World is about 8mins. It should be manageable. Good to have a sheltered walkway in future. Not sure if the authority will look into it.

  30. #30
    Not that near Guest

    Default

    You can try walking one day and see if it is mangeable. Also distance from map can be deceiving. It's not a straight line when u walk, so will be >850m. Bukit Regency has not much facilities right and face a busy road? Hillview Regency also 800 meters from Bukit Gombak station and from what I know, nobody walks to the station and the condo provides shuttle bus.
    850m is not exactly near u know! Anyway, all the best!

    Quote Originally Posted by DC33
    I have measured the distance, it is about 850m from the guardhouse of Bukit Regency and 600m if there is a side-door opened at the front of development facing the road. A stroll to Beauty World is about 8mins. It should be manageable. Good to have a sheltered walkway in future. Not sure if the authority will look into it.

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