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Thread: HIGH END HOME RENTALS ON THE DECLINE

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    Default HIGH END HOME RENTALS ON THE DECLINE

    This is why I have always stood by the belief of never putting all my eggs in one basket. As I had raised the point with teddy before one over year back that it is always better to split up a large sum of money to buy several condos for easy rental than buying one expensive condo to rent out at a huge sum. I already saw CCR rentals declining long ago, which was also why I bought a small CCR two bedder in a modest location and not throw all my money in one expensive property in the prime district.

    By Romesh Navaratnarajah:

    Rents of newly completed high-end homes could decline further upon the completion of over 4,000 units in 2H2012.

    Based on CBRE data, at least 20 developments with 4,285 units are set for completion in the second half of 2012. Of this figure, around half are located in the central business district (CBD) and in prime districts 9, 10 and 11. These include projects such as Marina Bay Suites, Boulevard Vue, Volari and Skyline 360.

    According to the Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA), non-landed home rentals in the city centre slipped by 0.1 percent in Q2.

    Moreover, rents of high-end non-landed homes analysed by Savills saw a four-month consecutive drop. Average monthly rents fell to S$5.03 psf per month, down three percent quarter-on-quarter or eight percent year-on-year.

    Several experts noted that while the upcoming completion of units could put pressure on the rental market, newly completed projects will still find tenants as long as Singapore remains a cost-competitive option for companies. However, landlords should be prepared to accept lower rents.

    Tan Kok Keong, Head of Research and Consultancy at OrangeTee, added that vacancy rates for homes within the city centre have been moving up, from 7.8 percent in Q1 to 8.2 percent in Q2.

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    No of rich bankers able to rent prime fast declining
    Ride at your own risk !!!

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    The decline and momentum look serious. I think tenants are shifting to city fringes after their housing allowances are cut. I begin to see more Ang Mo on public buses too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hyenergix
    The decline and momentum look serious. I think tenants are shifting to city fringes after their housing allowances are cut. I begin to see more Ang Mo on public buses too.
    I saw ang mo lady rented my neighbor's 4 room flat.. Btw, she has 2 Sexy and beautiful daughters ...

    One day must find opportunity to make friend with them.......

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    More opportunity for FT integration with the LT.

    Quote Originally Posted by CondoWE
    I saw ang mo lady rented my neighbor's 4 room flat.. Btw, she has 2 Sexy and beautiful daughters ...

    One day must find opportunity to make friend with them.......

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    yes this is the type of diversity and integration we welcome lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by gn108
    More opportunity for FT integration with the LT.
    wah, you forget about local singaporean women already?
    such a high percentage still unmarried.

    unfair, denigrate local girl who goes with angmo as SPGs.
    local boy who goes with angmo known as wat?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful
    wah, you forget about local singaporean women already?
    such a high percentage still unmarried.

    unfair, denigrate local girl who goes with angmo as SPGs.
    local boy who goes with angmo known as wat?
    there are so many angony aunt story of happily married expat who became expat gone wild n deviorce their wife when they came to singapore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by samuelk
    there are so many angony aunt story of happily married expat who became expat gone wild n deviorce their wife when they came to singapore.
    which angmo guy wouldnt want a submissive asian wife?
    hopefully local gals can tie down these expats and not the other way round, expats export out local gals.

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    a lot of expats have only limited housing allowance so renting a big unit in town makes little sense. The small units in the cbd will continue to thrive coz the extra premium for that added convenience isn't much. With singapore being so small, paying so much more to rent big units for that little more convenience in getting to work in town may only appeal to some expats with big housing allowances. I think expats are looking more towards lifestyle when they rent in singapore, rather than being near town, that is why east coast n bukit timah will never go out of fashion.

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    Last time JP morgan, Stan Chart, Lehman, Bear Stern, Citi, BoA, Morgan Stanley, RBS, BCS, HSBC & GS all making obscene amount of money either through Libor rigging, money laundering, Iran secret deals, subprime cheat, derivatives, betting against customers ... everyone in investment/trading is guaranteed 6k expat housing allowance and 6 months to 1 year bonus

    Now .... one by one shot down by regulators ... all out of jobs have to receive lower pay package

    Serve them right ... repent in hell lah
    Ride at your own risk !!!

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    @regulators: that is because all your "basket" is only sufficient for one decent CCR unit, whereas teddy and others can have multiple decent CCR units in diff areas ( for example you mentioned bt timah) to balance the portfolio.

    Nb of high paying expats in my opinion never changed. Just the supply changed. Therefore you have to see wheich project.

    At this level of investment ppl have a lot more options for a mere 200k looking for yield. CCR assets are for wealth preservation and capital appreciation. There arer plenty of other yielding assets to play. I personally do not invest OCR pties for yield ( I have OCR exposures)

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    What basket? Its not as if one CCR property can buy that 5 OCR property. The differential is only like 30%? So an OCR/RCR freehold resale could be say $1000psf-$1200psf, vs $1400-$1500psf in Novena or Holland V ($1400)? And not forgetting many CCR properties (esp CBD) are getting very small.

    Not only CCR property can be for wealth preservation and capital appreciation. Open up your investments horizon, not within a limited boundary in SG(or within 1km of school). Returns is the most important criteria. No matter how rich some of you claim to be (its just forum persona right? Empty vessels make the loudest noise esp in a forum. Frankly if one needs to move within 1km of certain schools to get their child in, u know that person can't be doing too well with not much connections or pedigree), you still want to make the best investment yielding the best returns. Its not about money any more, its about winning and making the right choices.

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    And even the rental differential is quite marginal. One can get a 3 bedder in town for only like $5500? And a 3 bedder in ulu Jurong West say Lakeshore can be $4500? It's not as if one CCR rents gives you a basket of 5 OCR. And property is discrete. You cannot buy half a property. And the upfront savings for 20% upfront by buying a suburban property can't even get a decent car. Part of the migration of expats (or locals) to more suburban areas could be lifestyle choices as well. Its just like more seasoned travellers like to live like the locals and go beyond the typical shopping malls in Orchard Road or Sentosa or colonial Botanical Gardens etc.

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    WF, just because you dun have the capacity, dun naively assume others dun.
    Please grow up, accept the fact that there are people doing better than you.
    Or at least, learn to respect that there can have different opinions than yours.

    5 of regent heights 700k is 3.5m, about the size of a decent unit in CCR. Why are you even doubting this ?

    And remember you still owe me an apology. I hope by now you have learned the difference between median and mean. Ability to interprete data correctly is the 1st step to have a constructive discussion.

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    See, that's the limit of your imagination.
    Your mind is so narrowly tied up on yield, you actually thought I was talking about getting 5 times rent

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    Lifestyle? Isn't living in and beside Orchard, 1 of the world's longest and most beautiful shopping street, a high lifestyle?
    Just that Singapore seems to be attracting the "lesser" (fake) "expats", the middle-income ones that compete with jobs of the middle income PMETs. No wonder so many complaints!
    We need more high-income expats and not the fake expats!

    quote=Regulators]a lot of expats have only limited housing allowance so renting a big unit in town makes little sense. The small units in the cbd will continue to thrive coz the extra premium for that added convenience isn't much. With singapore being so small, paying so much more to rent big units for that little more convenience in getting to work in town may only appeal to some expats with big housing allowances. I think expats are looking more towards lifestyle when they rent in singapore, rather than being near town, that is why east coast n bukit timah will never go out of fashion.[/quote]
    Last edited by teddybear; 14-08-12 at 20:38.

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    Wow! You just slapped Jim Rogers in his face! He moved within 1km of Nanyang and still need to do parent volunteer to get her daughter into there!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild Falcon
    What basket? Its not as if one CCR property can buy that 5 OCR property. The differential is only like 30%? So an OCR/RCR freehold resale could be say $1000psf-$1200psf, vs $1400-$1500psf in Novena or Holland V ($1400)? And not forgetting many CCR properties (esp CBD) are getting very small.

    Not only CCR property can be for wealth preservation and capital appreciation. Open up your investments horizon, not within a limited boundary in SG(or within 1km of school). Returns is the most important criteria. No matter how rich some of you claim to be (its just forum persona right? Empty vessels make the loudest noise esp in a forum. Frankly if one needs to move within 1km of certain schools to get their child in, u know that person can't be doing too well with not much connections or pedigree), you still want to make the best investment yielding the best returns. Its not about money any more, its about winning and making the right choices.

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    It is not about whether my basket can buy one or two decent ccr properties, it is the investment concept behind what I buy that matters most, not affordability issue. I have argued this with teddy at length before and no offence to him, ocr has proven to be the winner since the last argument. I prove my words with action and took the dive into buying regent heights based on rental yield analysis and I was right, prices have crept up to more than $900k in just one over year simply becoz the price supports the rental for the area. I was like teddy once, only believing that ccr is the way to invest, but I was brave enough to try out new investment strategies. Investment is all about maximising returns, not about what one can or cannot afford to buy. Btw teddy is probably old enough to be my father so he should probably be more well off than me.
    Quote Originally Posted by amk
    @regulators: that is because all your "basket" is only sufficient for one decent CCR unit, whereas teddy and others can have multiple decent CCR units in diff areas ( for example you mentioned bt timah) to balance the portfolio.

    Nb of high paying expats in my opinion never changed. Just the supply changed. Therefore you have to see wheich project.

    At this level of investment ppl have a lot more options for a mere 200k looking for yield. CCR assets are for wealth preservation and capital appreciation. There arer plenty of other yielding assets to play. I personally do not invest OCR pties for yield ( I have OCR exposures)

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    I used the word AVERAGE.

    And average is measure of central tendency which includes both median and mean. Goodness. In fact, I was the one who taught you this. And please, can find property within 1km of school or not? Haha. Can get your child into elite school that you have been deprived all your life or not? Reminds me of yowetan.

    And since when only CCR property can have capital appreciation??? Since when? Just read your nonsense above.

    I've nothing against wanting to move house to 1km within whatever school as your main criteria. But because that is your main criteria, your investment philosophy is flawed. You will always reverse rationalise. I.e. because u need to buy an particular property to give you child a chance of something u have denied, you will rationalise it is the best investment.

    $3.5m for the same size? Must compare same size lah. 700k was his past investment value u know? $700k for 1000sqft only lah. 1000sqft for $3.5m in CCR resale 15 years old 99LH property? $3.5k psf for a 10 year old CCR property 99LH? $3.5kpsf? I know u want to say your property very ex but seriously must keep other things constant lah.

    Quote Originally Posted by amk
    WF, just because you dun have the capacity, dun naively assume others dun.
    Please grow up, accept the fact that there are people doing better than you.
    Or at least, learn to respect that there can have different opinions than yours.

    5 of regent heights 700k is 3.5m, about the size of a decent unit in CCR. Why are you even doubting this ?

    And remember you still owe me an apology. I hope by now you have learned the difference between median and mean. Ability to interprete data correctly is the 1st step to have a constructive discussion.
    Last edited by Wild Falcon; 14-08-12 at 20:48.

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    I will rather cater to these so called mid range expats (your fake expats) which number by the thousands compared to those high end ones that turn up once in a long while. To me expats are expats, no fake or real, as long as I can make money from them, they are gd expats. When I mentioned lifestyle, we are looking beyond shopping streets which wa s why used east coast n bukit timah as examples. If expats come from more vibrant cities like ny n london, who gives two hoots about orchard?
    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    Lifestyle? Isn't living in and beside Orchard, 1 of the world's longest and most beautiful shopping street, a high lifestyle?
    Just that Singapore seems to be attracting the "lesser" (fake) "expats", the middle-income ones that compete with jobs of the middle income PMETs. No wonder so many complaints!
    We need more high-income expats and not the fake expats!

    quote=Regulators]a lot of expats have only limited housing allowance so renting a big unit in town makes little sense. The small units in the cbd will continue to thrive coz the extra premium for that added convenience isn't much. With singapore being so small, paying so much more to rent big units for that little more convenience in getting to work in town may only appeal to some expats with big housing allowances. I think expats are looking more towards lifestyle when they rent in singapore, rather than being near town, that is why east coast n bukit timah will never go out of fashion.
    [/QUOTE]

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    I think lifestyle choices have changed becos many international schools have moved and spread out into the suburbs as well. The big budget expats tend to be the ones who bring their entire family along and put their children up in international schools. So you have Canadian international School in Jurong West and Upper Bukit Timah, Australian School and French in Lorong Chuan and Serangoon, American School in Woodlands, UWC - Dover, AMK, Tampines, etc. So expats now exposed to different parts of SG...

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    And I hope discussion can be more productive. Obviously convergence has happened. Face it, like it or not. And rentals in CCR as reported by this article is weakening. Constructive discussion would be why this trend is happening and what would reverse the trend. An irresponsible statement is something that position yourself as so much "richer" or what I called "posturing" - trying to indirectly show your wealth by saying "because you can't afford thats why u buy RCR/OCR". One CCR property can buy a basket of your RCR/OCR when in reality keeping everything else contstant other than location, it is not. The ratio is only 1:1.3 which is not exactly material. I know the need to drop hints and posture about your financial well-being for some individuals (and usually these are the ones not very well-off from my experience) but would appreciate if discussion could center more around the observation around the article. And general statements like "CCR is for capital appreciation" as if nothing else in this world can appreciate in value does not add any value to any discussion.

    At least teddybear is candid in admitting the expats are a different breed compared to the past

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    In the 1990's and prior to Lehman crisis, it is quite obvious CCR capital appreciation is the way to go ... in last few years due to shortage of HDB, OCR near MRT is the way to go

    However, with the world continues to de-leverage at least for next 10y, would CCR able to give insane return on capital again??

    Let's wait and see.
    Ride at your own risk !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CondoWE
    I saw ang mo lady rented my neighbor's 4 room flat.. Btw, she has 2 Sexy and beautiful daughters ...

    One day must find opportunity to make friend with them.......
    You cook curry and bring over to their house to share share lah... kampung spirit man...

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    Convergence is inevitable the way I see it n it has not fully converged yet with so many island wide developments in the pipeline. I always believe that pty investment is like a business, using the analogy of a hawker n a restaurateur, the former could be doing much better than the latter even though a restaurant looks more glamorous. Hawker stalls may be not at classy as restaurants, but at least the crowd is guaranteed, a restaurant may look nice but have no crowd. This analogy can be used on the rental market for high end ccr n ocr pty.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wild Falcon
    And I hope discussion can be more productive. Obviously convergence has happened. Face it, like it or not. And rentals in CCR as reported by this article is weakening. Constructive discussion would be why this trend is happening and what would reverse the trend. An irresponsible statement is something that position yourself as so much "richer" or what I called "posturing" - trying to indirectly show your wealth by saying "because you can't afford thats why u buy RCR/OCR". One CCR property can buy a basket of your RCR/OCR when in reality keeping everything else contstant other than location, it is not. The ratio is only 1:1.3 which is not exactly material. I know the need to drop hints and posture about your financial well-being for some individuals (and usually these are the ones not very well-off from my experience) but would appreciate if discussion could center more around the observation around the article. And general statements like "CCR is for capital appreciation" as if nothing else in this world can appreciate in value does not add any value to any discussion.

    At least teddybear is candid in admitting the expats are a different breed compared to the past

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    if you buy in 2009, doesn't matter CCR or OCR ... capital appreciation will be good .... timing & selection of project is everything ...

    MPR

    2011-12-16 #10-XX 646 2,261psf 2009-05-26 1,399psf $556,852 934 20.6%

    Optima

    2012-06-18 #03-XX 484 1,445psf 2009-08-27 970psf $229,900 1,026 15.2%
    Ride at your own risk !!!

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    Classic posturing. Is it so important to showoff your wealth?

    What makes you so sure regulators can only afford one decent CCR property? On what basis you put him down in the first sentence? For all you know, he could afford. For all you know, he is richer than you, maybe he just make less noise about his wealth.

    And teddy and "others" (aiya. Just name yourself lah.) can have multiple CCR units - ya lah. We know lah. You and Teddy got multiple CCR units of decent size and each will cost more than $3.5 million. 10 units of 3.5 million each OK. Make enough hints about how successful you are already.

    You are the type within 3 min of talking to u, u would have dropped somuch hints about how rich u are, u will make one wander maybe u are just insecure about your lack of achievement. Trust me. Hold back a bit of the need to show off. I think you are not aware of it frankly because no one will tell it in your face. You thought your hints dropping are indirect, but they are NOT.

    Then you say blah blah at this level of investment than a "mere" $200k, (assuming u referring to rich men like yourself where $200k is rounding error?) people have a lot more options. Then you say "I" do not invest in OCR for yield. Which means you link yourself to the rich ones already lor.

    Trust me. DAMN obvious. Classic. Probably a loser in real life but make the loudest noise.

    Quote Originally Posted by amk
    @regulators: that is because all your "basket" is only sufficient for one decent CCR unit, whereas teddy and others can have multiple decent CCR units in diff areas ( for example you mentioned bt timah) to balance the portfolio.

    Nb of high paying expats in my opinion never changed. Just the supply changed. Therefore you have to see wheich project.

    At this level of investment ppl have a lot more options for a mere 200k looking for yield. CCR assets are for wealth preservation and capital appreciation. There arer plenty of other yielding assets to play. I personally do not invest OCR pties for yield ( I have OCR exposures)
    Last edited by Wild Falcon; 14-08-12 at 22:37.

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    So true! There are many "fake" CCR projects...

    Quote Originally Posted by amk
    @regulators: that is because all your "basket" is only sufficient for one decent CCR unit, whereas teddy and others can have multiple decent CCR units in diff areas ( for example you mentioned bt timah) to balance the portfolio.

    Nb of high paying expats in my opinion never changed. Just the supply changed. Therefore you have to see which project.

    At this level of investment ppl have a lot more options for a mere 200k looking for yield. CCR assets are for wealth preservation and capital appreciation. There arer plenty of other yielding assets to play. I personally do not invest OCR pties for yield ( I have OCR exposures)

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    I think you don't know what you are talking. Yes, rentals in CCR is weakening, that is referring to "fake" CCRs. Ha ha ha!
    My property investment rule number 1: Never buy OCR property, NEVER!!!
    My property investment rule number 2: Never buy RCR property, NEVER!!

    My property investment rule number 3: Never buy "fake" CCR property, NEVER!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild Falcon
    And I hope discussion can be more productive. Obviously convergence has happened. Face it, like it or not. And rentals in CCR as reported by this article is weakening. Constructive discussion would be why this trend is happening and what would reverse the trend. An irresponsible statement is something that position yourself as so much "richer" or what I called "posturing" - trying to indirectly show your wealth by saying "because you can't afford thats why u buy RCR/OCR". One CCR property can buy a basket of your RCR/OCR when in reality keeping everything else contstant other than location, it is not. The ratio is only 1:1.3 which is not exactly material. I know the need to drop hints and posture about your financial well-being for some individuals (and usually these are the ones not very well-off from my experience) but would appreciate if discussion could center more around the observation around the article. And general statements like "CCR is for capital appreciation" as if nothing else in this world can appreciate in value does not add any value to any discussion.

    At least teddybear is candid in admitting the expats are a different breed compared to the past

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