HIGH END HOME RENTALS ON THE DECLINE

[amk]

@WF, u still have not learned your lesson. And u still think this is about ur OCR CCR fight.

@regulators, congrats to your returns on OCR pty. for my circle of friends, probably due to the nature of the business, we do not treat pty as an asset class for yield. It's primarily for wealth preservation and capital appreciation, that does not require constant reblancing and trading. Therefore most of them have CCR exposure , not just any one, but quality ones. Mainly because such assets have stable valuations and tend to be less risky in long term. For yields, they have many financial instruments that are more liquid and have far less hassle. For example 2 weeks ago DBS did a bond at 3.1%. If u can get funding say at 70% 100bps, your yield is easily more than 8%, tax free. Why would I need to go through all the trouble of rental to get an inconsistent yield ? This is the angle that you can think about. I do have OCR exposures. I'm not really counting its yield. I will sell once it reaches appreciation target. However for my CCR positions, I will keep for much longer period, as a long term hedge for inflation. This is not saying my approach is better than yours. This is saying there is a reason why many CCR investors do not consider lower yield in ccr as something to worry about, and seemingly higher yield of OCR as something so exciting. It is very easy to beat the rental yield, nothing to shout about. But are you confident 20yrs from today, 5 regent heights valuation can beat 1 valuation of river gate ?

[teddybear]

Many people have not been landlords long enough to understand why collecting rental at $4k pm and below will never be able to make up enough for the damage that the tenants could do to their properties and the subsequent make-good costs. Never mind, enough said.

@WF, u still have not learned your lesson. And u still think this is about ur OCR CCR fight.

@regulators, congrats to your returns on OCR pty. for my circle of friends, probably due to the nature of the business, we do not treat pty as an asset class for yield. It's primarily for wealth preservation and capital appreciation, that does not require constant reblancing and trading. Therefore most of them have CCR exposure , not just any one, but quality ones. Mainly because such assets have stable valuations and tend to be less risky in long term. For yields, they have many financial instruments that are more liquid and have far less hassle. For example 2 weeks ago DBS did a bond at 3.1%. If u can get funding say at 70% 100bps, your yield is easily more than 8%, tax free. Why would I need to go through all the trouble of rental to get an inconsistent yield ? This is the angle that you can think about. I do have OCR exposures. I'm not really counting its yield. I will sell once it reaches appreciation target. However for my CCR positions, I will keep for much longer period, as a long term hedge for inflation. This is not saying my approach is better than yours. This is saying there is a reason why many CCR investors do not consider lower yield in ccr as something to worry about, and seemingly higher yield of OCR as something so exciting. It is very easy to beat the rental yield, nothing to shout about. But are you confident 20yrs from today, 5 regent heights valuation can beat 1 valuation of river gate ?

[Wild Falcon]

Still posturing? Wanting to teach people a "lesson"?

Because (i) Capital appreciation - my OCR/RCR properties have appreciated so much in the past 3 years. No kidding. Some >100%. (ii) Cheap leverage - only available for properties (iii) Yields above 4%. Cheap leverage means my actual returns is way higher.

The discussion is about why CCR rentals have come down. Scroll up. You started posturing to Regulators or show your superiority which peeved people off. what is the "you can't afford one CCR property" comment. Is that necessary. Why the word "mere" in front of $200k? Showing off that $200k is short change because you must be worth billions? So important to shout about your wealth?

Teddybear doesn't do that. if you notice. he just talk about his investment philosophy which is fine with me. He doesn't posture or is so hard up about hinting his wealth.

@WF, u still have not learned your lesson. And u still think this is about ur OCR CCR fight.

@regulators, congrats to your returns on OCR pty. for my circle of friends, probably due to the nature of the business, we do not treat pty as an asset class for yield. It's primarily for wealth preservation and capital appreciation, that does not require constant reblancing and trading. Therefore most of them have CCR exposure , not just any one, but quality ones. Mainly because such assets have stable valuations and tend to be less risky in long term. For yields, they have many financial instruments that are more liquid and have far less hassle. For example 2 weeks ago DBS did a bond at 3.1%. If u can get funding say at 70% 100bps, your yield is easily more than 8%, tax free. Why would I need to go through all the trouble of rental to get an inconsistent yield ? This is the angle that you can think about. I do have OCR exposures. I'm not really counting its yield. I will sell once it reaches appreciation target. However for my CCR positions, I will keep for much longer period, as a long term hedge for inflation. This is not saying my approach is better than yours. This is saying there is a reason why many CCR investors do not consider lower yield in ccr as something to worry about, and seemingly higher yield of OCR as something so exciting. It is very easy to beat the rental yield, nothing to shout about. But are you confident 20yrs from today, 5 regent heights valuation can beat 1 valuation of river gate ?

[Wild Falcon]

amk, I wasn't even into the CCR or OCR debate. Its your posturing and your need to showoff that I cannot stand. I've seen people like you in real life and the way you talk. You will keep dropping hints, link youself to the perceived rich people, and drop words like "mere" in front of $200k, or tell people off "you can't afford but I can" within like 3 minutes. Maybe nobody has ever told you about the way you are. Maybe you are insecure about people not knowing how "successful" you are. Maybe you are really as wealthy and successful as you shout yourself to be. But is it really that important to drop such hints all the time? And do you judge regulator as not being able to afford a CCR property just because he said he prefer to diversify? Actually I'm in a good mood today - thats why i take time to dissect your post. But take some time to re-read your post again. Have a nice day.

[Wild Falcon]

Read this again. amk.

@regulators: that is because all your "basket" is only sufficient for one decent CCR unit, whereas teddy and others can have multiple decent CCR units in diff areas ( for example you mentioned bt timah) to balance the portfolio.

Nb of high paying expats in my opinion never changed. Just the supply changed. Therefore you have to see wheich project.

At this level of investment ppl have a lot more options for a mere 200k looking for yield. CCR assets are for wealth preservation and capital appreciation. There arer plenty of other yielding assets to play. I personally do not invest OCR pties for yield ( I have OCR exposures)

[Wild Falcon]

And does anyone in the right mind invest in a 3.1% DBS bond? And amk that is your idea of a great investment for people in your "league" which you have been trying to hint? Goodness. Any stock investment or even REIT or overseas corporate bonds would have beaten that. No sweat. And I think you should stop posturing any more or your "circle of friends" with all CCR investments and must be able $3.5 million each. Hint hint. Read above. Hinting none of circle of friends have OCR property. Hint hint = > all your friends all elite ones who don't go suburbs. Your circle of friends only have "HIGH QUALITY CCR" property which means all must be able $3.5m EACH. hint hint. Don't make HDB flat friends. Hint hint good pedigree but somehow cannot get kids and must move ai tong? Hehe. Old habits die hard.

Are you really that insecure?

[Wild Falcon]

every opportunity u take to show off. So your circle of friends are rich and only buy CCR property? Just say "I" lah. Why bring rich friends in? Or by association? Don't have friends who stay in suburbs?

Classic. Every opportunity is used to show off your wealth. I don't see how saying your circle of friends all have many quality investments in CCR has any relevance. I guess its so much a part of you to drop names and hints about your success (or lackof) and association with rich people. Sometimes, holding back a bit makes u look more sophisticated, even in real life. After all, the truly sucessful are usually less conspicuous. And if you're really successful, people will know

[quote=amk]

@regulators, congrats to your returns on OCR pty. for my circle of friends, probably due to the nature of the business, we do not treat pty as an asset class for yield. It's primarily for wealth preservation and capital appreciation, that does not require constant reblancing and trading. Therefore most of them have CCR exposure , not just any one, but quality ones.

[Regulators]

i am usually quite astute in my decisions and i generally do not follow the crowd. Yes, you are right about bonds paying 8% interest but that is still nothing compared to the almost 200% ROI if anyone had bought an OCR property in the west in 2010. I always do price comparisons before i buy. I have given valid pointers to you guys why regent heights was a good buy back in 2010 only to be bombarded by so many people who were only looking at physical not the intrinsic value of the investment. Buying 99yr LH ptys is a different ball game.

@WF, u still have not learned your lesson. And u still think this is about ur OCR CCR fight.

@regulators, congrats to your returns on OCR pty. for my circle of friends, probably due to the nature of the business, we do not treat pty as an asset class for yield. It's primarily for wealth preservation and capital appreciation, that does not require constant reblancing and trading. Therefore most of them have CCR exposure , not just any one, but quality ones. Mainly because such assets have stable valuations and tend to be less risky in long term. For yields, they have many financial instruments that are more liquid and have far less hassle. For example 2 weeks ago DBS did a bond at 3.1%. If u can get funding say at 70% 100bps, your yield is easily more than 8%, tax free. Why would I need to go through all the trouble of rental to get an inconsistent yield ? This is the angle that you can think about. I do have OCR exposures. I'm not really counting its yield. I will sell once it reaches appreciation target. However for my CCR positions, I will keep for much longer period, as a long term hedge for inflation. This is not saying my approach is better than yours. This is saying there is a reason why many CCR investors do not consider lower yield in ccr as something to worry about, and seemingly higher yield of OCR as something so exciting. It is very easy to beat the rental yield, nothing to shout about. But are you confident 20yrs from today, 5 regent heights valuation can beat 1 valuation of river gate ?

[amk]

@regulators, yes the 8% extracted from a bond is nothing compared with a ROI of your pty return, but this is comparing 2 diff thing, isn't it ? One is comparing yield, one is comparing capital gain. Th idea of bond is not for capital gain. That's for yield play. When you have say 3mil, you allocate 1mil for something long trm, 1 mil for modest yield less risk ( bond), 1 mil for speculative "opportunistic" play. In my book this regent height buy falls into the last one, that you see an opportunity and go for it.

And for academic discussion, let say you are extracting 6% yield now based on ur purchase price, but based on current valuation it's 4% because it appreciated. In my line MtM this asset is no better yielding than any other pty that is yielding 4% as its current price. In other words it may become reasonable to take a capital gain now, instead of harboring the thought that "my yield is 6%, no need to sell". Do you see the rationale in this ?

[Regulators]

Yes, I am contemplating on selling, but not at this price as there is room for further price appreciation. If pty prices are stagnant, it would make sense to continue keeping a pty n renting out, but when price of pty surge, a judgement call is needed between realising profit n forgoing possibly higher roi n also future rental, not an easy decision to make. Based on my price n rental analysis, the potential of my ocr buy has not reached its full potential.

@regulators, yes the 8% extracted from a bond is nothing compared with a ROI of your pty return, but this is comparing 2 diff thing, isn't it ? One is comparing yield, one is comparing capital gain. Th idea of bond is not for capital gain. That's for yield play. When you have say 3mil, you allocate 1mil for something long trm, 1 mil for modest yield less risk ( bond), 1 mil for speculative "opportunistic" play. In my book this regent height buy falls into the last one, that you see an opportunity and go for it.

And for academic discussion, let say you are extracting 6% yield now based on ur purchase price, but based on current valuation it's 4% because it appreciated. In my line MtM this asset is no better yielding than any other pty that is yielding 4% as its current price. In other words it may become reasonable to take a capital gain now, instead of harboring the thought that "my yield is 6%, no need to sell". Do you see the rationale in this ?

[minority]

which angmo guy wouldnt want a submissive asian wife?
hopefully local gals can tie down these expats and not the other way round, expats export out local gals.

Singapore girls are far from submissive.

[amk]

Yes, I am contemplating on selling, but not at this price as there is room for further price appreciation. If pty prices are stagnant, it would make sense to continue keeping a pty n renting out, but when price of pty surge, a judgement call is needed between realising profit n forgoing possibly higher roi n also future rental, not an easy decision to make. Based on my price n rental analysis, the potential of my ocr buy has not reached its full potential.

Very sensible. Tis is all judgement call. If pty investment is so easy, every one makes money already.

... One of the reasons I rely on other products for yield... Much simpler

[focus]

Singapore girls are far from submissive.

That's because the guys start off from the wrong foot.
If you treat her like god-send, you are asking for it.
But cannot treat her like dirt too.
Must be balanced... then both will respect each other.

[minority]

That's because the guys start off from the wrong foot.
If you treat her like god-send, you are asking for it.
But cannot treat her like dirt too.
Must be balanced... then both will respect each other.

But the original post says submissive. So now you mean its equal ? I C.

[hopeful]

Singapore girls are far from submissive.

singapore girls are more submissive than angmo girls.
hence angmo men go for singapore girls.

vietnam girls are more submissive than singapore girls.
hence single singapore men look for wives in vietnam.

it is mens' ego afterall.
only a select few go for dominatrix.