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Thread: Pressure on SG middle class rising

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    Default Pressure on SG middle class rising

    VIEW: Pressure on Singapore's middle class rising
    By Seah Chiang Nee in Petaling Jaya/The Star | Asia News Network*–*Sat, May 5, 2012

    Petaling Jaya (The Star/ANN) - Singapore's P-MET (pronounced Pee-met) - the acronym for Professionals, Managers, Executives and Technicians, a flourishing group of people who make up 51 per cent of the workforce - is under stress.
    Most are, of course, university graduates or diploma holders, whose numbers and role in society had steadily increased because of strong growth and people's determination to get higher education.
    In turn, it helped to shape Singapore into what it is - a rich, middle-class society.
    The first blow was struck by the demise of the industrial era here as well as the emergence of competitive giants like China and India that pushed down wages everywhere.
    Factories were closed or moved overseas and mass retrenchments followed, including executives and managers.
    A series of downturns and recessions added to the toll. In 2008, for example, 43.3 per cent of retrenched Singaporeans were from this group.
    A new shadow now looms. This is the arrival of a small army of hungrier foreign P-METs who are always ready to accept lower wages.
    Singapore is a middle class city. An estimated 70 per cent of citizens consider themselves middle class rather than working class.
    The influx of one million workers in the past 10 years included many poorer paid P-METs from India and the Philippines. Many ended up in finance, computer and multinational corporations, some of them easing out locals.
    The arrivals are a mixed bag. The majority comprises lower-paid workers, but also includes many extremely rich settlers.
    The demographic infusion is continuing but the government, responding to public pressure, has recently reduced the number of approvals given out.
    It has eroded bit by bit the Singapore middle-class, already hit by economic changes.
    Another effect of globalisation is the monthly departure of 1,000 Singaporeans to settle abroad for better opportunities and a more relaxed lifestyle.
    In the past 10 years, 97,990 Singaporeans (excluding small children), had left, the government said. Many are young and well-educated professionals.
    The erosion of the middle class was first noticed three years ago in Japan, and to a lesser extent in Hong Kong and Taiwan before arriving here.
    It was enunciated as the M-shaped society by Japanese strategist Kenichi Ohmae, who noticed that among middle-class workers in Japan only a "very few" made it to the rich, while a greater number actually sank to the lower classes.
    For some middle-class Singaporeans, this sounds uncomfortably familiar.
    The gap between rich and poor in Singapore is the second widest in the world, and the government has promised utmost efforts to put it right.
    For the government any weakening of the middle class is bad news.
    Who forms the middle class?
    There is no universally accepted definition, but Singaporeans generally base it on earnings. People who earn S$4,000-S$7,000 (RM9,800-RM17,200) are considered middle and upper middle classes.
    Former Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew once said that any political party that wanted to win power in Singapore must win the middle class.
    The mass arrival of foreign professionals into the marketplace is causing the government dearly in public support - as shown in last year's general election.
    Former Director of Internal Security Department (1971-74) Yoong Siew Wah wrote that "Singapore has 30,000 P-METs who have been unemployed for quite a long time, and we now have Chinese and Indian immigrants competing ... for the limited employment opportunities".
    What do the unemployed P-METs do? Many work as taxi drivers, property agents, insurance agents, financial advisers, remisiers, or tuition teachers, said a surfer.
    In recent years, the Lee Hsien Loong government responded to the furore by cutting down the number of foreign PRs and raising the pay ceiling for foreign professionals.
    He also pledged priority efforts to narrow the income gap between rich and poor.
    Commentator Patrick Loh said: "If you look around, Singaporeans have lost many middle management and higher management jobs to foreigners for the past decade.
    "They are still losing these to them. The painful part is losing these jobs to lesser qualified candidates, just because they appear to fit the role better with a cheaper pay package," he added.
    There is another compelling reason why the People's Action party (PAP) wants to keep educated youths employed.
    Former Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew told accompanying journalists to India years ago that his government would want to avoid his host's plight. Their universities were churning out too many unemployed graduates.
    Recollecting from memory, I gather his rationale being: These unemployed graduates have the knowledge and free time to plan revolutions. They would hang around in coffee shops and talk politics, and soon a revolution brews.
    Recently, an Education Ministry official was reported to have told a US diplomat (source: Wikileaks) that Singapore did not plan to encourage more students to study in university, and the campus enrolment rate would stay at 20 per cent-25 per cent.
    I wonder, if this is true, is it connected to concerns about the possibility of unmanageable unemployment among graduates here?

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    join as property agent lor..

    be own boss
    I took the road less traveled by, and that has made all the difference.” - Robert Frost quotes (American poet, 1874-1963)

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    Yes, ask garmen to control property supply tightly, join as property agent, make money from foreign PMETs who just became SPRs and SCs lol

    But seriously ... Burmese, Pinoys, Viets, Indons, Malaysians, mainland Chinese are willing to accept 30% lower pay and much more hungry than SCs

    SC PMETs > 40 middle class, if nothing niche, die pain pain in such high inflationary environment, no power to increase salary at all, salary forever stuck at 5-6k pm ... husband cmi, then wife must work to counter high cost ... then naturally no kid and 1 kid is the norm .. the vicious cycle continues
    Ride at your own risk !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom_opera
    Yes, ask garmen to control property supply tightly, join as property agent, make money from foreign PMETs who just became SPRs and SCs lol

    But seriously ... Burmese, Pinoys, Viets, Indons, Malaysians, mainland Chinese are willing to accept 30% lower pay and much more hungry than SCs


    SC PMETs > 40 middle class, if nothing niche, die pain pain in such high inflationary environment, no power to increase salary at all, salary forever stuck at 5-6k pm
    the harrd truth that many scs don't want to know..

    bus driver already outsource to china dude.. sgd$1200-$1500 /mo to them is like lot of money back in china..
    I took the road less traveled by, and that has made all the difference.” - Robert Frost quotes (American poet, 1874-1963)

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    May be they should compensate citizens by relaxing property buying rules for them & tighten property supply so that these citizens' PMETs may lose their jobs but become landlords & collect high rents from these foreigners & PRs?
    Like that so free everyday shake legs can produce more babies? Lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by phantom_opera
    Yes, ask garmen to control property supply tightly, join as property agent, make money from foreign PMETs who just became SPRs and SCs lol

    But seriously ... Burmese, Pinoys, Viets, Indons, Malaysians, mainland Chinese are willing to accept 30% lower pay and much more hungry than SCs

    SC PMETs > 40 middle class, if nothing niche, die pain pain in such high inflationary environment, no power to increase salary at all, salary forever stuck at 5-6k pm ... husband cmi, then wife must work to counter high cost ... then naturally no kid and 1 kid is the norm .. the vicious cycle continues

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    What do the unemployed P-METs do? Many work as taxi drivers, property agents, insurance agents, financial advisers, remisiers, or tuition teachers, said a surfer.
    Ha... Think even these I see competition ..
    Korea, ah moh, prc, Indians, philipinos etc Agt/tutors/drivers everywhere !!
    Then how ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by smallant
    What do the unemployed P-METs do? Many work as taxi drivers, property agents, insurance agents, financial advisers, remisiers, or tuition teachers, said a surfer.
    Ha... Think even these I see competition ..
    Korea, ah moh, prc, Indians, philipinos etc Agt/tutors/drivers everywhere !!
    Then how ?
    Next is low level blue collar jobs like cleaners, sweepers etc which govt kept emphasizing sinkies too proud to do!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by felicia_sg
    May be they should compensate citizens by relaxing property buying rules for them & tighten property supply so that these citizens' PMETs may lose their jobs but become landlords & collect high rents from these foreigners & PRs?
    Like that so free everyday shake legs can produce more babies? Lol.
    Good idea, if lots of SC own multiple ppty then they will make more baby boys to defend our nation.

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    very simple, restrict foreigners from buying HDB flats, at most only can rent.

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    "restrict foreigners from buying HDB flats"
    got foreigners buying hdb meh??

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    Quote Originally Posted by maisonjai
    "restrict foreigners from buying HDB flats"
    got foreigners buying hdb meh??
    PRs are foreigners.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carbuncle
    ......
    Recently, an Education Ministry official was reported to have told a US diplomat (source: Wikileaks) that Singapore did not plan to encourage more students to study in university, and the campus enrolment rate would stay at 20 per cent-25 per cent.
    I wonder, if this is true, is it connected to concerns about the possibility of unmanageable unemployment among graduates here?
    do you know why have to less graduates?
    1) lower educated people have lower expectations and hence government easier to satisfy their demands.
    2) lower educated people have higher birthrates.

    i read this somewhere.
    Hawaii school system used to failed 50% of the students. They need the "failures" to work in sugar plantations in Hawaii. Singapore workforce too highly educated. Need ITEs, diplomas to put in elbow grease.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful
    do you know why have to less graduates?
    1) lower educated people have lower expectations and hence government easier to satisfy their demands.
    2) lower educated people have higher birthrates.

    i read this somewhere.
    Hawaii school system used to failed 50% of the students. They need the "failures" to work in sugar plantations in Hawaii. Singapore workforce too highly educated. Need ITEs, diplomas to put in elbow grease.
    wa!!
    I took the road less traveled by, and that has made all the difference.” - Robert Frost quotes (American poet, 1874-1963)

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    The current batch of middle income Singaporeans are experiencing tension like never before. By past norms, most middle class Singaporean should be able to afford a Korean or Jap car and stay in HDB (lower middle)/PC (upper middle). However, today's price for such lifestyles is pushing itself into the upper middle class and even the higher income (upper class) bracket, thus eliminating the lower middle class altogether. COE price approaching all time high while housing prices have far far surpassed all time high (OCR and RCR) (CCR not for middle class anyway)...So now do we consider these lower middle class income families as poor? A lot of people I spoke to only say they can't buy cars and lamenting that their cars are gonna be scrapped soon.. how how how? Also all fighting for HDB flats which are getting more expensive. Recently HDB flats already broke the $1mil valuation barrier... where to stop? If income rise can match inflation rise, then nothing to say but this is never the case... middle income group's lamentation...

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    Move over to JB and get a car without tax exemption and drive over to singapore. C200 only cost $90,000.
    Quote Originally Posted by ysyap
    The current batch of middle income Singaporeans are experiencing tension like never before. By past norms, most middle class Singaporean should be able to afford a Korean or Jap car and stay in HDB (lower middle)/PC (upper middle). However, today's price for such lifestyles is pushing itself into the upper middle class and even the higher income (upper class) bracket, thus eliminating the lower middle class altogether. COE price approaching all time high while housing prices have far far surpassed all time high (OCR and RCR) (CCR not for middle class anyway)...So now do we consider these lower middle class income families as poor? A lot of people I spoke to only say they can't buy cars and lamenting that their cars are gonna be scrapped soon.. how how how? Also all fighting for HDB flats which are getting more expensive. Recently HDB flats already broke the $1mil valuation barrier... where to stop? If income rise can match inflation rise, then nothing to say but this is never the case... middle income group's lamentation...

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    Since cars and homes are so expensive, I wonder whether there is a possiblity of a caravan park in the future?

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    Quote Originally Posted by buttercarp
    Since cars and homes are so expensive, I wonder whether there is a possiblity of a caravan park in the future?
    Caravan is comfortable only for couples with at most 1 kid... nothing more lah... if want to squeeze, can just get what our MIW said about 2 room hdb flat costing about $1xxk only... slightly more spacious than a caravan at roughly the same cost...

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    It is all about expectations. We should just leave cars and COEs out because they are "luxury".
    Since 90% of singaporeans own their own properties now, isn't it better for property prices to go up than come down?
    Obviously all the noises we hear and see are from the loud-mouth minorities who disregard what MM Lee said and shorted the properties over their head and/or missed the boats and want to get back into owning property at cheap price (including all those calls for foreigners' ABSDs etc and strangely they got it! Heard coffeeshop talk saying some of these people also missed the boats and want to get back in cheap cheap!). Well, I believe majorities still happy with property price rise, but not so happy anymore with all the CMs and ABSDs! If property price crashed, and Singapore call for an election, you think PAP get more votes or less votes? This will show whether Singaporeans really want property prices to go up or crash!


    Quote Originally Posted by ysyap
    The current batch of middle income Singaporeans are experiencing tension like never before. By past norms, most middle class Singaporean should be able to afford a Korean or Jap car and stay in HDB (lower middle)/PC (upper middle). However, today's price for such lifestyles is pushing itself into the upper middle class and even the higher income (upper class) bracket, thus eliminating the lower middle class altogether. COE price approaching all time high while housing prices have far far surpassed all time high (OCR and RCR) (CCR not for middle class anyway)...So now do we consider these lower middle class income families as poor? A lot of people I spoke to only say they can't buy cars and lamenting that their cars are gonna be scrapped soon.. how how how? Also all fighting for HDB flats which are getting more expensive. Recently HDB flats already broke the $1mil valuation barrier... where to stop? If income rise can match inflation rise, then nothing to say but this is never the case... middle income group's lamentation...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ysyap
    Caravan is comfortable only for couples with at most 1 kid... nothing more lah... if want to squeeze, can just get what our MIW said about 2 room hdb flat costing about $1xxk only... slightly more spacious than a caravan at roughly the same cost...
    Caravan can function as a mode of transport.
    So no need car if have caravan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teddybear
    It is all about expectations. We should just leave cars and COEs out because they are "luxury".
    Since 90% of singaporeans own their own properties now, isn't it better for property prices to go up than come down?
    Obviously all the noises we hear and see are from the loud-mouth minorities who disregard what MM Lee said and shorted the properties over their head and/or missed the boats and want to get back into owning property at cheap price (including all those calls for foreigners' ABSDs etc and strangely they got it! Heard coffeeshop talk saying some of these people also missed the boats and want to get back in cheap cheap!). Well, I believe majorities still happy with property price rise, but not so happy anymore with all the CMs and ABSDs! If property price crashed, and Singapore call for an election, you think PAP get more votes or less votes? This will show whether Singaporeans really want property prices to go up or crash!
    Agreed! Property price changes only affect those who are thinking of upgrading or downgrading plus those who are into property investment which is probably the minority of Singaporeans. Property price rise is only on paper for those who are staying put in their current homes.

    However cars being luxury item or not is rather tricky. In the past, a new QQ cost less than $30k which is still affordable to many people. Now that brand of car is extinct. So last time such cheap vehicles are never considered luxurious item, just functional items because the cost of taking public transport including taxi is only slightly cheaper than maintaining a small car (fare hikes started even before COE price escalated). Luxurious items were S class and BMW. Now all vehicle types have upgraded into the luxury category...

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    I could sense that there are broadly 3 group of people participating in this forum.

    1. People with vested interest in property prices going up (eg property agent, property consultant, property developer, highly geared investor on property, investor who purchased at recent high, home owner with no burden of next generation)

    2. People with vested interest in price going down (eg people buying their first homes, people who sold earlier and waiting to buy, people staying in rented housing, investor waiting to buy more, home owner with burden of next generation)

    3. People with little or no vested interest (people not affected by price up or down, objective people, home owner with no vested interest, people keen to share knowledge and experience which can also be bias)

    Once we understand the existence of the above, we should not be overly upset or react over extreme views or their intentions to advance their interests in this forum.

    They are going to continue to talk up the market or talk down the market regardless of what. Hopefully, with these in mind, we can all learn somethings this forum bring to this small community.

    As most successful people always said; "never trust your investments with the third party. They have no responsibility to make you rich".

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    coe very high, car scrapping soon, cannot afford so this driver intention is to buy new? Buy 2nd hand car tahan 3 years for time being loh, pocket not deep then make some adjustment. Old car better than no car, correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeds
    I could sense that there are broadly 3 group of people participating in this forum.

    1. People with vested interest in property prices going up (eg property agent, property consultant, property developer, highly geared investor on property, investor who purchased at recent high, home owner with no burden of next generation)

    2. People with vested interest in price going down (eg people buying their first homes, people who sold earlier and waiting to buy, people staying in rented housing, investor waiting to buy more, home owner with burden of next generation)

    3. People with little or no vested interest (people not affected by price up or down, objective people, home owner with no vested interest, people keen to share knowledge and experience which can also be bias)

    Once we understand the existence of the above, we should not be overly upset or react over extreme views or their intentions to advance their interests in this forum.

    They are going to continue to talk up the market or talk down the market regardless of what. Hopefully, with these in mind, we can all learn somethings this forum bring to this small community.

    As most successful people always said; "never trust your investments with the third party. They have no responsibility to make you rich".
    U forgotten e most important group which is e owner of this forum.

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    We are now looking for a boat house
    Move house everyday
    fresh fish on table every meal

    In fact, everyone is feeling the pressure even for retiree like me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laguna
    We are now looking for a boat house
    Move house everyday
    fresh fish on table every meal

    In fact, everyone is feeling the pressure even for retiree like me.
    U can always work as part time agent based on ur contacts n knowledge. I think sick n poor retirees r worst hit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buttercarp
    Since cars and homes are so expensive, I wonder whether there is a possiblity of a caravan park in the future?
    I would first to buy... Sis you start a new thread on trailer park living la and see how many interested and where they think is best location for it....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laguna
    We are now looking for a boat house
    Move house everyday
    fresh fish on table every meal

    In fact, everyone is feeling the pressure even for retiree like me.
    I think there actually was one on sale parked in one of the yacht clubs some time back leh... Gives a whole new meaning to Missed the Boat eh wakakaka

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laguna
    We are now looking for a boat house
    Move house everyday
    fresh fish on table every meal

    In fact, everyone is feeling the pressure even for retiree like me.
    No wonder developer named their project boathouse... Lol!

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    Quote Originally Posted by carbuncle
    I think there actually was one on sale parked in one of the yacht clubs some time back leh... Gives a whole new meaning to Missed the Boat eh wakakaka
    At Keppel Marina, very nice.
    Huge, I think is around $600,000, the price of a OCR MM

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    Quote Originally Posted by DC33_2008
    Move over to JB and get a car without tax exemption and drive over to singapore. C200 only cost $90,000.
    Sg citizen n pr CANNOT drive into sg in a Malaysia plate car.
    As passengers can but not the driver.

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