Brooks collection @ Springside

[ay123]

Thanks for the warning. I am fully aware and informed of the consequence should I made a wrong decision/planning.

However, if I do not make the first move I might live in regrets for the inflation and price escalation may well beyond me in future.

u might be right. if u don make the 1st move u will be in the same position forever. sometime we have to place ONE big bet in life that could change everything. it could be better or be worse. just be able to take it whatever the result. i know of someone who is in debt for many years. but he saw 2009 as a rare opportunity to turnaround his fate. despite hearing negative feedback that price then (global recession) was very expensive. he made a decisive decision to bet. he borrowed money to buy one decent property and now he is smiling all the way to the bank. from a negative equity he become net asset with hugh gain. of course if the result turn sour, he is in deep shit. one must have a steel ball to do it

[buttercarp]

u might be right. if u don make the 1st move u will be in the same position forever. sometime we have to place ONE big bet in life that could change everything. it could be better or be worse. just be able to take it whatever the result. i know of someone who is in debt for many years. but he saw 2009 as a rare opportunity to turnaround his fate. despite hearing negative feedback that price then (global recession) was very expensive. he made a decisive decision to bet. he borrowed money to buy one decent property and now he is smiling all the way to the bank. from a negative equity he become net asset with hugh gain. of course if the result turn sour, he is in deep shit. one must have a steel ball to do it

I guess to each his own. I can't take the roller coaster kind of life.
I want a peaceful (may be boring to others) life even if it means being stuck in a certain type of housing.

[lajia]

I like someone in the forum mentioning about the Einstein theory. If u do nothing special and expect dractic change, that's insanity...
But having said that, as we aged, risk will exponentially increase. Therefore, if u have full support from family, might worth a try now when u are still young. Eat rice or eat porridge together...one can still be happy if one don't make it.

[wind30]

I guess to each his own. I can't take the roller coaster kind of life.
I want a peaceful (may be boring to others) life even if it means being stuck in a certain type of housing.

don't you think what would happen we really leveraged to the max?

When I bought my property in 2009, I used a large chunk of money to renovate it and I took only like less than 50% loan.

If I do not renovate and take 80% loan, I can probably buy 3 of them

I think can retire now already... on the hindsight it is easy to say...

at 2009, I was actually thinking of going the renting route and all the properties were like rising like crazy.... lucky never rent...

[ay123]

tats why it depend on how big is yr risk appetite. it really need a steel ball to take tat risk during a global recession. my friend scoop up Sands share at US$5 during tat time and he is sitting at > US$1m profit. it really boils down to yr reserve, guts, timing. there is no sure win game

[PN]

I like someone in the forum mentioning about the Einstein theory. If u do nothing special and expect dractic change, that's insanity...
But having said that, as we aged, risk will exponentially increase. Therefore, if u have full support from family, might worth a try now when u are still young. Eat rice or eat porridge together...one can still be happy if one don't make it.

I hope he is just kidding when he mention 100k cash only.
I also hope he is joking with us on borrowing from relative/parents/friends to buy his dream.
I wish he has done all the calculations accurately since he works in a bank.

One wrong move can make a person goes bankrupt & 9 family members (4 parents, he & wife, 2 infants, 1 sibling) will suffer together. This is no joke.

If family war errupts, the whole family will also disintegrate & that will also spell disaster.

Anyway, Pinball says he's a troll so he may be just playing a fool here only.

[rattydrama]

No harm to take a higher risk at younger age. No risk no gain.

I will take a calculated risk. If for the first property, I would prefer to be investment grade ...at least there is something to fall back.

[lajia]

I hope he is just kidding when he mention 100k cash only.
I also hope he is joking with us on borrowing from relative/parents/friends to buy his dream.
I wish he has done all the calculations accurately since he works in a bank.

One wrong move can make a person goes bankrupt & 9 family members will suffer together. This is no joke.

If family war errupts, the whole family will also disintegrate & that will also spell disaster.

Anyway, Pinball says he's a troll so he may be just playing a fool here only.

Haha, my basic assumption is, calculation has been done. Borrow from bank or whoever as long as there is no problem with monthly installments. That's the least min to be considered. And also reserves for raining days...

[wind30]

tats why it depend on how big is yr risk appetite. it really need a steel ball to take tat risk during a global recession. my friend scoop up Sands share at US$5 during tat time and he is sitting at > US$1m profit. it really boils down to yr reserve, guts, timing. there is no sure win game

yup wonder got anyone bought sands share at >USD100 in 2007.... Got people win big also got people jump of buildings....

[lajia]

yup wonder got anyone bought sands share at >USD100 in 2007.... Got people win big also got people jump of buildings....

Sure one ma, if not where the winner take the money from?? From the loser ma !!! It goes in circular motion and see who keep the money longer. That's why ppl say 10 gambler 9 loser...

[rattydrama]

I have always been interested in ppty but nvr jump cos my partner dont believe in property for many years.

End 2008, I tired to convince my partner but failed as fear of dropping more. We could afford anytime for a D9,10,11. In 1Q09 price down by 15% and I tried to convince and failed.

In 3Q09 I tried again and finally we bou a FH ppty in RCR thinking that we will be staying there for good but nvr because our plans changed. Its not my choice location but at that time buy anything means something to me.

When the valuation went up, it becomes easier for me to convince my partner to buy more. In 2010, I liquidate my HDB, If I were 1 month early, I could buy a 4-room for self stay. Tats my plan but too bad gov acted faster.

I continue my shopping spree. I buy 2 more after the 1st CM when some seller trying to let go with fear. I took a staggered approach and within my means, so far the plan is working fine.

However, with CM 1,2,3,4,5, it became harder these days. Hence, its very important to buy the right property cos liquidating it maybe difficult n the replacement cost could be 15%.

If I buy landed in 2009, I could be richer, but I think in investment view point, beting all eggs in one basket attract higher risk. Having flexibilty of owning few privates then just one is important is prudent.

Having said that, I dont expect 2009/2010 pricng will happen again as the price has simply move too much.

big bet for big win and small bet for small win. Dont end up big bet small win or no win.

small bet dont win still ok cos still can accumulate cash for future opportunity.

don't you think what would happen we really leveraged to the max?

When I bought my property in 2009, I used a large chunk of money to renovate it and I took only like less than 50% loan.

If I do not renovate and take 80% loan, I can probably buy 3 of them

I think can retire now already... on the hindsight it is easy to say...

at 2009, I was actually thinking of going the renting route and all the properties were like rising like crazy.... lucky never rent...

[House]

Any problem with flooding in that area?
I remember an agent showing me a house near there years ago...and flooding was a problem in some of the nearby roads cos of topography, and if you are near bottom of slope or not.

ponding not flooding

[wind30]

I have always been interested in ppty but nvr jump cos my partner dont believe in property for many years.

End 2008, I tired to convince my partner but failed as fear of dropping more. We could afford anytime for a D9,10,11. In 1Q09 price down by 15% and I tried to convince and failed.

In 3Q09 I tried again and finally we bou a FH ppty in RCR thinking that we will be staying there for good but nvr because our plans changed. Its not my choice location but at that time buy anything means something to me.

When the valuation went up, it becomes easier for me to convince my partner to buy more. In 2010, I liquidate my HDB, If I were 1 month early, I could buy a 4-room for self stay. Tats my plan but too bad gov acted faster.

I continue my shopping spree. I buy 2 more after the 1st CM when some seller trying to let go with fear. I took a staggered approach and within my means, so far the plan is working fine.

However, with CM 1,2,3,4,5, it became harder these days. Hence, its very important to buy the right property cos liquidating it maybe difficult n the replacement cost could be 15%.

If I buy landed in 2009, I could be richer, but I think in investment view point, beting all eggs in one basket attract higher risk. Having flexibilty of owning few privates then just one is important is prudent.

Having said that, I dont expect 2009/2010 pricng will happen again as the price has simply move too much.

big bet for big win and small bet for small win. Dont end up big bet small win or no win.

small bet dont win still ok cos still can accumulate cash for future opportunity.

ultimately, I believe someone will ALWAYS need to pay for the house in the end. The best gauge is the average singaporean capable of paying for a 1.3 million condo or a 700k resale HDB?

When people start to say that rental can pay for the house it starts getting dangerous as the calculation is VERY dependent on the interest rates.

Seriously who here calculates their rental yield based on a 3-4% interest rate as it is the norm? If interest rate is 3-4%, will property still make sense as an investment based in the current prices?

But the prices has gone up in line with the current low interest rate environment so further upside is limited. Interest rates can only go up in the future whether it is by 0.1% or 1%. And when it goes up, the housing prices will readjust when rental yield falls.

[rattydrama]

that is true. today price vs rental yield is poor.

However, if your houses are bought before 2009, the rental yield can cover the monthly instal @ 20% downpayment cos your loan amount is smaller. Some still able to take home pocket $.

With today's downpayment of 40%, still able to cover the monthly instal. However if at 80% loan, most will need to top up.

The reasons why CCR price is not moving fast is also in part, because of poor rental yield. New buyer will think hard before they commit. Those who commit is buying for potential, own stay or simply too rich.

And interesting as all also know, MM seems to be doing well cos of rental yield.

I will not pay for a 1.3m condo if I can get 2 units x 600k 2 bedder or 1+1 at least 600 sqft.

ultimately, I believe someone will ALWAYS need to pay for the house in the end. The best gauge is the average singaporean capable of paying for a 1.3 million condo or a 700k resale HDB?

When people start to say that rental can pay for the house it starts getting dangerous as the calculation is VERY dependent on the interest rates.

Seriously who here calculates their rental yield based on a 3-4% interest rate as it is the norm? If interest rate is 3-4%, will property still make sense as an investment based in the current prices?

But the prices has gone up in line with the current low interest rate environment so further upside is limited. Interest rates can only go up in the future whether it is by 0.1% or 1%. And when it goes up, the housing prices will readjust when rental yield falls.

[rattydrama]

at the moment, singaporeans will dump all your savings into property. I am not sure this will hold true in the next 10 years.

[Blue]

Dun hesitate, just wack lah. I hv made my first million out of this property boom since 2008, and is on my way to make the 2nd million.

Singaporeans in general are few hundred Ks richer bec of this boom, and you just have to realise that paper gain and reinvest the money in other newer properties. Anything new always sell faster and higher than old ones.

Either you take the risk now and push yourself to another level or continue to slog and remain where you are. The world will not wait for you, so do the housing prices.

[wind30]

Dun hesitate, just wack lah. I hv made my first million out of this property boom since 2008, and is on my way to make the 2nd million.

Singaporeans in general are few hundred Ks richer bec of this boom, and you just have to realise that paper gain and reinvest the money in other newer properties. Anything new always sell faster and higher than old ones.

Either you take the risk now and push yourself to another level or continue to slog and remain where you are. The world will not wait for you, so do the housing prices.

It is this kind post that makes me feel apprehensive about entering the market now. People no longer buy property for stay but as a way to get rich fast. Wonder how long this can last. But I think most of your profit is made is 2009 period. Nowadays the market is kind of flat

Actually if you realise the paper gain, you should divest into some other things right?

[Blue]

It is this kind post that makes me feel apprehensive about entering the market now. People no longer buy property for stay but as a way to get rich fast. Wonder how long this can last. But I think most of your profit is made is 2009 period. Nowadays the market is kind of flat

Actually if you realise the paper gain, you should divest into some other things right?

Hehe, actually I hv been hunting houses since 2006 but only bought in 2008 due to HDB 5 yrs restrictions. Back then there were not many control measures, so one can buy a few properties at minimal outlay of cash / CPF.

Even with the US financial crisis in 2009, property prices have not come down alot. Especially for landed, they are steadily climbing up as bargain hunters went in to grab from the panick sellers.

Property investment is a leveraged deal when you put in a small % and borrow the rest. In today's market where there are so much cheap money offered by the banks, why resist? Rental yield is not fantastic, less than 5% but it's the capital appreciation that is the real deal. Most sellers exit on average when they have a capital gain of $300K. Those who hold long enough can make $1M or more. Say if you buy a condo for $1.2M with a downpayment of $270K (20% + stamp duty). And in 5 yrs time, you sell it for $1.5M. Your gain works out to $300K/$300K (include loan interest) = 100% for 5 yrs or 20% per annum. Find me an investment that pays 20% per annum.

Investing in shares => you are depending on the Management Team of the company you invested in, if one key management personnel leaves the company and takes away the major clients / business, the share price drops like nobody's business and will never come back even if you hold the shares for long. There is no guarantee that a company share price will rise over time like inflation.

Investing in properties => You hv full control of your investment as long as you hv the holding power. And bec of land scarce Singapore, you know prices will rise over time ahead of inflation.

[Blue]

My neighbour who is an old couple bought his corner terrance land 3000 sqft for $200K 20 over years ago. Now he got offers for $3M and he doesn't even want to sell it cos he has no need for money while he believes price will rise over time.

So, overcome your fears, ride on the wave / trend. Miss the boat and you remain on the island while your peers have sailed to another paradise.

With more and more foreigners coming into Singapore to snatch our rice bowls, the only thing that Singaporeans can do is to invest in properties and rent out properties to them. It is a double edged sword if you sit there and do nothing and wait to be "killed" when you get replaced by a lower wage foreigner.

[newbie11]

Singaporeans in general are few hundred Ks richer bec of this boom, and you just have to realise that paper gain and reinvest the money in other newer properties. Anything new always sell faster and higher than old ones.

sell a prop and invest in new one will cost you 40% (at least for me, since I have another outstanding loan) + stamp duty, agent fees, etc. worthwhile? Been grappling with this dilemma as my CCR unit movement has been flat.

[Blue]

sell a prop and invest in new one will cost you 40% (at least for me, since I have another outstanding loan) + stamp duty, agent fees, etc. worthwhile? Been grappling with this dilemma as my CCR unit movement has been flat.

The reason why CCR units have been flat cos it probably has reached its peak. Comparing a 3 bedroom condo unit (99 yrs) near Orchard Rd at $3M (built-in 1200sqft @ $2500psf) and an inter-terrace (freehold) in East Coast at $3M, land 1800 sqft with built-in of 4000sqft => which do you think is more value for money?

Landed houses' built-in psf is still low, so there is upside. If one day our government decides to open up landed to PRs, cannot imagine how much appreciation it will be!

I would recommend that you profit out of your CCR unit (if already appreciated) and re-invest something else that have more upside.

[newbie11]

The reason why CCR units have been flat cos it probably has reached its peak. Comparing a 3 bedroom condo unit (99 yrs) near Orchard Rd at $3M (built-in 1200sqft @ $2500psf) and an inter-terrace (freehold) in East Coast at $3M, land 1800 sqft with built-in of 4000sqft => which do you think is more value for money?

Landed houses' built-in psf is still low, so there is upside. If one day our government decides to open up landed to PRs, cannot imagine how much appreciation it will be!

I would recommend that you profit out of your CCR unit (if already appreciated) and re-invest something else that have more upside.

Thanks for inputs. Think I suck at cashing out. Hold until neck long long. Your suggestion make some sense. But to put 40% dp is no joke since landed quantum is not small. I need to move to d5 in few years for son sch. Missus don't like pasir panjang. D5 terrace seemed overpriced at 1k psf while 100 trees and the like sold for 1k psf. Maybe d21....
I thought of d21.

[jesico]

Dun hesitate, just wack lah. I hv made my first million out of this property boom since 2008, and is on my way to make the 2nd million.

Singaporeans in general are few hundred Ks richer bec of this boom, and you just have to realise that paper gain and reinvest the money in other newer properties. Anything new always sell faster and higher than old ones.

Either you take the risk now and push yourself to another level or continue to slog and remain where you are. The world will not wait for you, so do the housing prices.

well, other than selling to realise the paper gain and reinvest the $ in other newer properties, another way would be to take equity term loan to pay for downpayment of the next property (if there's enough paper gain). it's the preferred way for some people, esp if you believe that property prices rise in the long term and properties are to be bought and not sold.

[lajia]

well, other than selling to realise the paper gain and reinvest the $ in other newer properties, another way would be to take equity term loan to pay for downpayment of the next property (if there's enough paper gain). it's the preferred way for some people, esp if you believe that property prices rise in the long term and properties are to be bought and not sold.

Which means, we do valuation and take more loan on the same property?

[Adva181]

sell a prop and invest in new one will cost you 40% (at least for me, since I have another outstanding loan) + stamp duty, agent fees, etc. worthwhile? Been grappling with this dilemma as my CCR unit movement has been flat.

Keep ur CCR for rental. Dun sell.

[newbie11]

Which means, we do valuation and take more loan on the same property?

yes.. more loan..

gd for my biz. haha

[hyenergix]

Thanks for inputs. Think I suck at cashing out. Hold until neck long long. Your suggestion make some sense. But to put 40% dp is no joke since landed quantum is not small. I need to move to d5 in few years for son sch. Missus don't like pasir panjang. D5 terrace seemed overpriced at 1k psf while 100 trees and the like sold for 1k psf. Maybe d21....
I thought of d21.

Sounds like Nanhua Pri Sch... West Coast will go higher as Seahill has created a benchmark. Jurong East GLS n Hong Leong Gardens enbloc when launched will push psf higher.

[newbie11]

Sounds like Nanhua Pri Sch... West Coast will go higher as Seahill has created a benchmark. Jurong East GLS n Hong Leong Gardens enbloc when launched will push psf higher.

spot on. HL gardens is bought by oxley (king of MM). IOI bought plot beside nan hua at such a high price, I think easily 1.2k psf

[Blue]

well, other than selling to realise the paper gain and reinvest the $ in other newer properties, another way would be to take equity term loan to pay for downpayment of the next property (if there's enough paper gain). it's the preferred way for some people, esp if you believe that property prices rise in the long term and properties are to be bought and not sold.

This is like doubling up your bets. If market goes in ur favour, u win more. But if it heads south, u will be the first one to jump off the building. I prefer to use money that has been earned to reinvest so even if i lose, i can afford to lose away the previous profits made and still stay alive. Equity term loan is like borrowing from loan sharks and can die one wor..moreover, u need to be sure that ur property can be rented out easily so that u dun hv to service two loans!

[lajia]

This is like doubling up your bets. If market goes in ur favour, u win more. But if it heads south, u will be the first one to jump off the building. I prefer to use money that has been earned to reinvest so even if i lose, i can afford to lose away the previous profits made and still stay alive. Equity term loan is like borrowing from loan sharks and can die one wor..moreover, u need to be sure that ur property can be rented out easily so that u dun hv to service two loans!

Totally agree...good debt later become bad debt and also like that might die faster...