70% of sky habitat snapped up in a day!

[kane]

Want to share one real case.

He bought a condo at 800k few years ago. He is earning about 9k. Wife working but pay not much. So I would say total hoisehold income is 10.5k income.

He owns a car & has two kids. He has a maid. He told me he hardly has savings every month. Pay just enough to cover monthly expenses. Sometimes he drive to his parents hosue who lives nearby to have dinner.

His mortgage is mainly paid using CPF + less in cash initially.
Recently, his CPF has dried out so most of mortgage has to be paid in cash already.
Monthly expenses gets tighter with this.

So don't assume your CPF can last forever to cover most of it.

And therr's the withdrawal limit to look out for.

[phantom_opera]

So family making 8 to 10k all slaves of bank and insurance co lol
Roof over your head liability, car even bigger liability, live in hdb better

[stiook]

It is about expectation, a dream to live his/her way of life. My wife and myself are hoping to have our own private space, i.e. Landed property or a condominium with facilities exclusive to the community within.

It is your life... You have the right to live it your way. Just be comfortable with your choices. For some of us, resources is limited. So we are face with constraints and choices. The choice you made may not sit down well with others because everyone has different views, values etc.

I brought my family to the zoo (really not cheap)... Some may say go to park lah... Free what.
We had a good time at the kids play area, riding the carousel, pony, house carriage. Then we went see the animals. When we arrive at the giraffe area, my kids asked to feed giraffe. It cost $5 for 5 pieces of veg. There was a family with kids asking to feed giraffe. The father does not look very happy with this request. The mother said "it is only $5".

I look at the dad... Busy taking pictures with his DSLR... Mummy trying to pacify the kids. He might be thinking I am an idiot, throwing $5 into the drain. Or he might think I am a lousy dad. Not teaching them the value of money and raising spoilt brats by giving in to their request.
Anyway, saw the family at the car park again. Whole family did not seem very happy.

The $5 could have been better spent. I could have spent this $5 to buy myself a latte. Feed giraffe?! Some forummer might think i am a carrot head. Worse, my kids might grow up to be spoilt brats because of this $5.

Anyway, the photos from my $300 auto-focus camera will probably not be as nice... but my kids were smiling in the pictures. Bottom line, choices and be happy with what you choose.

[phantom_opera]

Zoo, feed animal, latte, even DSLR are small items, watch out for big items

4 cars in life - half a mio include interest, insurance, erp, parking etc
Silly ILP and endowment assume 15k per year over 30y another half a mio which u not sure u can get it back
Maid for 30y another half a mio
No wonder nothing left all give to pap

[buttercarp]

When we arrive at the giraffe area, my kids asked to feed giraffe. It cost $5 for 5 pieces of veg. There was a family with kids asking to feed giraffe. The father does not look very happy with this request. The mother said "it is only $5".

I look at the dad... Busy taking pictures with his DSLR... Mummy trying to pacify the kids. He might be thinking I am an idiot, throwing $5 into the drain. Or he might think I am a lousy dad. Not teaching them the value of money and raising spoilt brats by giving in to their request.
Anyway, saw the family at the car park again. Whole family did not seem very happy.

The $5 could have been better spent. I could have spent this $5 to buy myself a latte. Feed giraffe?! Some forummer might think i am a carrot head. Worse, my kids might grow up to be spoilt brats because of this $5.

Anyway, the photos from my $300 auto-focus camera will probably not be as nice... but my kids were smiling in the pictures. Bottom line, choices and be happy with what you choose.

Since you brought this issue, I will relate how my dad brought me up.
If I had ask to feed the giraffe for $5 he would ask me to consider if it was worthwhile.
I am sure he would have said to me the following:

The giraffes are fed by the zoo.
The $5 is for them to make money out of you.
Won't it be better to buy yourself an ice cream?
However if feeding the giraffe will make you happy, then here is the $5 for the food, but you will have to forego the ice cream.

[Douk]

He can sell off the condo and move to hdb?
Sure he will get instant boost for his cpf and savings

Want to share one real case.

He bought a condo at 800k few years ago. He is earning about 9k. Wife working but pay not much. So I would say total hoisehold income is 10.5k income.

He owns a car & has two kids. He has a maid. He told me he hardly has savings every month. Pay just enough to cover monthly expenses. Sometimes he drive to his parents hosue who lives nearby to have dinner.

His mortgage is mainly paid using CPF + less in cash initially.
Recently, his CPF has dried out so most of mortgage has to be paid in cash already.
Monthly expenses gets tighter with this.

So don't assume your CPF can last forever to cover most of it.

[stiook]

Since you brought this issue, I will relate how my dad brought me up.
If I had ask to feed the giraffe for $5 he would ask me to consider if it was worthwhile.
I am sure he would have said to me the following:

The giraffes are fed by the zoo.

The $5 is for them to make money out of you.
Won't it be better to buy yourself an ice cream?
However if feeding the giraffe will make you happy, then here is the $5 for the food, but you will have to forego the ice cream.

better not turn this into a discussion of my parenting skill or lack of it... yes, bottomline is choose and be happy about it.

Anyway, was neasrby showflat but did not detour... maybe next week.

[stiook]

Want to share one real case.

He bought a condo at 800k few years ago. He is earning about 9k. Wife working but pay not much. So I would say total hoisehold income is 10.5k income.

He owns a car & has two kids. He has a maid. He told me he hardly has savings every month. Pay just enough to cover monthly expenses. Sometimes he drive to his parents hosue who lives nearby to have dinner.

His mortgage is mainly paid using CPF + less in cash initially.
Recently, his CPF has dried out so most of mortgage has to be paid in cash already.
Monthly expenses gets tighter with this.

So don't assume your CPF can last forever to cover most of it.

I suppose if you keep the deduction lower than the contribution, then the CPF should last, assuming the job is secured.

[amk]

Ringo , ur tone is really offensive. This is not hardware zone, belittling others gains u no points.
Car should be paid in full, this is prudent spending. Petrol cost and running cost etc no more than 800. My 2.5l german ride cost less than 700 in petrol, the other japanese one even less. Depreciation ? If you count car depreciation as ur expense, u r totally missing the point of budgeting. How r u going to depreciate a FH pty then ? Car is big ticket expense you should save for, and better, aim for better investment returns and pay for it !
10k income, think about it, if close to 7k goes to expense, does it look prudent to you ? You should live your life based on your income. For a 10k income, monthly FIXED expense should not be 7k. It should be 3-4k, then you can have enough for savings and investment. Then you plan what you can live within 4k.
If you choose a lifestyle of 7k even though ur income is just 10k, that's a choice you make. You will have no investment opportunities. 10yr later the best you can get is just your cash savings, which is nothing. In the meantime if some one can plan the expense properly and invest prudently, 10y can have 2 pty cycles, you can earn 1 million. 800k loan has a mortgage of 3k, you do your maths.
Can a family of 4 live comfortably with 4k?

[amk]

Actually I think amk is trying to help to point out that don't spend too much on car and insurance eg u can go for 2nd hand car

Thanks. Yes. Especially the 1k insurance , to me it's way over insured. NTUC simple term life for 20yrs of 2mil cost about 2.5k plus yearly for PN's sample 35-40.

[yowetan]

Thanks. Yes. Especially the 1k insurance , to me it's way over insured. NTUC simple term life for 20yrs of 2mil cost about 2.5k plus yearly for PN's sample 35-40.

Do you think getting a term insurance is a better deal? 2.5kSGD per year seems a big sum for me.

Is there any better deal out there? As an Ex-NS men, am I still eligible for the Aviva group insurance?

[amk]

My example of 2.5k a year is for a 2mil size. Not every one needs this size. You have to decide yourself.
Yes best deal is the safra group term. Just dump endowment, edu save, whatever.

[yowetan]

My example of 2.5k a year is for a 2mil size. Not every one needs this size. You have to decide yourself.
Yes best deal is the safra group term. Just dump endowment, edu save, whatever.

I am confuse over personal term versus group term; I am worried the term and condition will come into play when filing claim (Touch Wood).

Could someone experience with this explain to me? TIA.

[hopeful]

I am confuse over personal term versus group term; I am worried the term and condition will come into play when filing claim (Touch Wood).

Could someone experience with this explain to me? TIA.

yowetan, you have been doing research since last year. can share with us what you have discovered so far?
if you keep on expecting people to spoon feed you the data, how the shit are you going to be a cut above the rest if you are so damn dependent on others?
they have already pointed out to you the general direction..

[yowetan]

yowetan, you have been doing research since last year. can share with us what you have discovered so far?
if you keep on expecting people to spoon feed you the data, how the shit are you going to be a cut above the rest if you are so damn dependent on others?
they have already pointed out to you the general direction..

Hi hopeful, I am asking bit and pieces in financial management, as well as property outlook etc. I have started to sound out and hear the voice(s) and feedback(s) in property outlook.

Today, I am asking amk on the insurance policy, and specifically on the Personal Term versus Group Term. I believe this is another unique query.

If you are uncomfortable in answering to my above unique and exclusive mutual query, you can choose to ignore. TIA.

[stiook]

4 cars in life - half a mio include interest, insurance, erp, parking etc

To some, this is what they worked for. Lambo, Porsche, Ferrari...
Maybe like what the guy interviewed in Sunday Times said... Must get yourself these things, then you will be driven to maintain the lifestyle.

[hopeful]

Hi hopeful, I am asking bit and pieces in financial management, as well as property outlook etc. I have started to sound out and hear the voice(s) and feedback(s) in property outlook.

Today, I am asking amk on the insurance policy, and specifically on the Personal Term versus Group Term. I believe this is another unique query.

If you are uncomfortable in answering to my above unique and exclusive mutual query, you can choose to ignore. TIA.

very irritating to hear a whiner.
most times, the wellspring of human kindness just run out if you keep drinking from it.
many times you mention, "i wish i can afford that property." "can I afford it?" etc.
very easy to calculate ma.
y * 40% (LTV 60%) + y * 3% (stamp duty) = 100.000 (your cash in hand)
so 0.43y = 100.000
y = 230.000
that is the condo price that you can afford if you are holding ur HDB.

if you sell your HDB, LTV become 80%.
y * 20% (LTV 80%) + y * 3% (stamp duty) = 200.000 (your cash in hand)
so 0.23y = 200.000
y = 870.000
that is the condo price you can afford if you sell ur HDB.

as to your income whether can afford, please dont believe us forummers. Forummers are not the one who is lending you the money, go ask a few banks to get the real answers, since they are the ones who is lending you the money.

as to insurance, i have mentioned in another thread that i paid under less than 10k a year for term, not because I cannot afford more, but insurance companies dont want to insure me further based on my income and assets, insurable interest they called it.
so not every tom dick harry can have term coverage for millions.
no need to thank me.

[buttercarp]

very irritating to hear a whiner.
most times, the wellspring of human kindness just run out if you keep drinking from it.
many times you mention, "i wish i can afford that property." "can I afford it?" etc.
very easy to calculate ma.
y * 40% (LTV 60%) + y * 3% (stamp duty) = 100.000 (your cash in hand)
so 0.43y = 100.000
y = 230.000
that is the condo price that you can afford if you are holding ur HDB.

if you sell your HDB, LTV become 80%.
y * 20% (LTV 80%) + y * 3% (stamp duty) = 200.000 (your cash in hand)
so 0.23y = 200.000
y = 870.000
that is the condo price you can afford if you sell ur HDB.

as to your income whether can afford, please dont believe us forummers. Forummers are not the one who is lending you the money, go ask a few banks to get the real answers, since they are the ones who is lending you the money.

as to insurance, i have mentioned in another thread that i paid under less than 10k a year for term, not because I cannot afford more, but insurance companies dont want to insure me further based on my income and assets, insurable interest they called it.
so not every tom dick harry can have term coverage for millions.
no need to thank me.

Wow, hopeful has answered yowetan's questions!
Hooray!

[Ringo33]

Ringo , ur tone is really offensive. This is not hardware zone, belittling others gains u no points.
Car should be paid in full, this is prudent spending. Petrol cost and running cost etc no more than 800. My 2.5l german ride cost less than 700 in petrol, the other japanese one even less. Depreciation ? If you count car depreciation as ur expense, u r totally missing the point of budgeting. How r u going to depreciate a FH pty then ? Car is big ticket expense you should save for, and better, aim for better investment returns and pay for it !
10k income, think about it, if close to 7k goes to expense, does it look prudent to you ? You should live your life based on your income. For a 10k income, monthly FIXED expense should not be 7k. It should be 3-4k, then you can have enough for savings and investment. Then you plan what you can live within 4k.
If you choose a lifestyle of 7k even though ur income is just 10k, that's a choice you make. You will have no investment opportunities. 10yr later the best you can get is just your cash savings, which is nothing. In the meantime if some one can plan the expense properly and invest prudently, 10y can have 2 pty cycles, you can earn 1 million. 800k loan has a mortgage of 3k, you do your maths.
Can a family of 4 live comfortably with 4k?

Let me ask you one simply question.

Based on an household income of $10k per month and a mortgage of 80%X1.2m, how much savings should this family will be able to set aside per month in order to pay a car in full after the end of 10 years, and yet have enough for family expenses and savings for children education and retirement etc.

[stiook]

Wow, hopeful has answered yowetan's questions!
Hooray!

and smashed his dream!

[yowetan]

and smashed his dream!

My dream is alive and shall always be alive.

[stiook]

My dream is alive and shall always be alive.

work hard at it...may it come true. Good luck!

[amk]

Let me ask you one simply question.

Based on an household income of $10k per month and a mortgage of 80%X1.2m, how much savings should this family will be able to set aside per month in order to pay a car in full after the end of 10 years, and yet have enough for family expenses and savings for children education and retirement etc.

For you, I guess the answer is 800 a month 10y later u will save 100k, rite ? That's how your monthly "expense" goes so high.

For me no. Such 800 a month is not an expense, it belongs to investment I must make, on whatever instrument I chose, such that 10ys later it should generate at the very least a yield hopefully > inflation.

You are just risk adverse, and a very "saver" mode. Nothing wrong with it

[DaytonaSS]

I beg to differ actually. Assuming if both family have similar monthly expenses, by the end of 10 years, the one living in HDB flat would have got enough savings to buy a private condo while still able to hold on to the HDB flat. This will give them an extra rental income revenue.

For the family who own the $1.2m property, they will hardly have much savings for investment.

it depends on what you are looking for in your question.

1) better off could means which one got more upside potential

2) which one got more savings

in my last 12 years of savings for a condo experience, my experience tells me for sure, the amount u save very hard to catch up at the rate the price rans away. those whom just buy, stretch themselves are laughing all way.

Life is as such, high risk high return. No way to be safe safe n get big big returns. during the time i m saving 500k for a 1m condo i see friend combine income $4k buy $400++k condo. will u think they are crazy? well their condo is $1m today. i also see someone earn $8k gross , bring out balls n buy condo $1m in CCR, 2 years later enbloc $2m.

so i have learned. keep an open mind, and listen to ideas of others. if one is already self made multi-millionaire(in the last 7 years) while sharing your idea here, you can be damn sure you are right. Otherwise, some theory have not pass thru the test of time yet.

As for those whom advocate spending first b4 accumulating wealth, dont be too sad after 30 years , one is still running the rat race.

while some figures our fellow bro quote is precious to the dot and what 90% of pple are doing, that doesnt mean its is the right thing to do. do u see more employees slogging for life or more pple achieving financial freedom. Have u meet someone who's family died of starvation cos he draw a 3-4k family income? IF not, saving and investing $5k month is definately possible. The option of preference here is whether want to live like a church mouse first and pay oneself first b4 anyone else.

[PN]

He can sell off the condo and move to hdb?
Sure he will get instant boost for his cpf and savings

New rulings cannot buy hdb if have condo. And don't think he want to move hdb also.

I suppose if you keep the deduction lower than the contribution, then the CPF should last, assuming the job is secured

If you keep the monthly deduction lower than the contribution, it also means that you need to pay more cash for the installment.

Usually when you see some balance in your CPF after the 20% down payment, you will want to use it to pay the mortgage installment. So that's why it was was structured to use CPF more than cash initially.

[speculator]

I beg to differ actually. Assuming if both family have similar monthly expenses, by the end of 10 years, the one living in HDB flat would have got enough savings to buy a private condo while still able to hold on to the HDB flat. This will give them an extra rental income revenue.

For the family who own the $1.2m property, they will hardly have much savings for investment.

I'm truly impressed. saving to buy a condo.
Yes, please continue saving and one day dream may come true

Hopefully not 80 or 90 already by then.
Otherwise the saving could come in handy for funeral instead.

[DaytonaSS]

Want to share one real case.

He bought a condo at 800k few years ago. He is earning about 9k. Wife working but pay not much. So I would say total hoisehold income is 10.5k income.

He owns a car & has two kids. He has a maid. He told me he hardly has savings every month. Pay just enough to cover monthly expenses. Sometimes he drive to his parents hosue who lives nearby to have dinner.

His mortgage is mainly paid using CPF + less in cash initially.
Recently, his CPF has dried out so most of mortgage has to be paid in cash already.
Monthly expenses gets tighter with this.

So don't assume your CPF can last forever to cover most of it.

fast foward 20 years, where do u see this friend?

y dont u think differently, put aside 50% first to pay yourself. Then left with 5k, u decide what is important to you if u absolutely have to live within this limit. even if u choose 100% expense on that 50%. u will be fine. However if u still insist 10k should be spend your way, its not wrg also. the difference is , u chose to pay the car manufacturer, bank int, maid, life style restaurant, telco, internet scv, SP, travel agency b4 yourself and your family.

just some sharing......

[speculator]

Life is as such, high risk high return. No way to be safe safe n get big big returns. during the time i m saving 500k for a 1m condo i see friend combine income $4k buy $400++k condo. will u think they are crazy? well their condo is $1m today. i also see someone earn $8k gross , bring out balls n buy condo $1m in CCR, 2 years later enbloc $2m.

very familiar story. Seen too many such examples.
saving to buy a condo is

[House]

in my last 12 years of savings for a condo experience, my experience tells me for sure, the amount u save very hard to catch up at the rate the price rans away. those whom just buy, stretch themselves are laughing all way.

this is exactly what is happening now.

let say one is able to loan $1m today and buy a $1.2m PC.
3-5 yrs down the road, loan maybe be increased to $1.2m but that same house is at least $1.5m or more.

everything goes up except income

[hyenergix]

this is exactly what is happening now.

let say one is able to loan $1m today and buy a $1.2m PC.
3-5 yrs down the road, loan maybe be increased to $1.2m but that same house is at least $1.5m or more.

everything goes up except income

The simple explanation is the value of money is being eroded by the printing press. Central governments in other countries are using it to suck your effort and savings secretly away so that their own citizens can live better.