A few CCR transactions sold at a loss (reported in The Edge)

[bullman]

if we look at the caveats, can see that units which are private treaty can easily command better prices. yet, when its mortgagee auction time, everybody seems to hold back, why is that so? good deals pple like to pass, yet pay more when negotiating with sellers who are less willing to sell at private treaty?

but both units which are sold cheaply are facing construction directly. buyer has to either bear with the noise to stay there or accept low rental and/or have difficulty renting out.

RESIDENCES @ KILLINEY

19 JAN 2010 147 KILLINEY ROAD #10-03 NEW SALE 5,059sq ft STRATA 1,550psf $7,841,450 PRIVATE

20% off is $6.2m. Advertisements are at $6.98m and it has been on the list for a long time. Seller (bank) doesn't seem very urgent to sell?

I observed the same trend as well. My immediate thoughts are that "mortgagee auction" units still carry a certain social stigma to it. HNWI and UHNWI do not like going around telling people how much below market value that they managed to secure their units for, or securing it in a high profile manner, least of all in a public auction. Most prefer purchase via private treaty with no caveats lodged for privacy.

This is the smallest of the PHs and the developer is still marketing the rest. I think that 1150-1200 psf is achievable for this unit as the non-livable foot print is substantial. It's obvious that the original buyer overpaid for the unit. Bank is not very urgent as there is still equity in the unit.

[bargain hunter]

assuming u bought the unit, would u be renting it out? if so, would it be easy to get a decent yield?

my impression has always been that big units are for families and they would prefer to be at bigger developments with more land area?

doesn't that put residences @ Killiney at a disadvantage? ie for 4 bedroom and above.

I observed the same trend as well. My immediate thoughts are that "mortgagee auction" units still carry a certain social stigma to it. HNWI and UHNWI do not like going around telling people how much below market value that they managed to secure their units for, or securing it in a high profile manner, least of all in a public auction. Most prefer purchase via private treaty with no caveats lodged for privacy.

This is the smallest of the PHs and the developer is still marketing the rest. I think that 1150-1200 psf is achievable for this unit as the non-livable foot print is substantial. It's obvious that the original buyer overpaid for the unit. Bank is not very urgent as there is still equity in the unit.

[bullman]

assuming u bought the unit, would u be renting it out? if so, would it be easy to get a decent yield?

my impression has always been that big units are for families and they would prefer to be at bigger developments with more land area?

doesn't that put residences @ Killiney at a disadvantage? ie for 4 bedroom and above.

[IF] I bought this unit, it would be almost impossible to rent it out in today's market, whereby units priced at above $15k/mth are essentially stagnant. Some of such units have been vacant for 1-2 years.

This means that if one is not buying for own stay,one should be prepared to keep it vacant for at least 2-3 years. At a bargain rental of $10k/mth and assuming a purchase price of $6M, the yield is 2%. It simply does not make sense if you are looking from the rental yield point of view. Most likely, buyer will pay full in cash to reduce holding cost.

As to your second question, luxury PHs are mysterious animals. They are most affected by the property cycle and the price spread is sometimes astonishing. The potential pricing of $1150-$1200 psf has already factored in the "small development" disadvantage. Other comparable PHs in bigger developments are priced at $2k-$2.5k psf.

[bargain hunter]

your reasoning is very sound. however, if that's the case, an even bigger discount should be warranted.

paying all in cash means no leverage, other investments may be better bets at this time?

the 2kpsf penthosues probably do not have as big a roof terrace as this one? seems very difficult to justify buying this penthouse unless price is REALLY low.

[IF] I bought this unit, it would be almost impossible to rent it out in today's market, whereby units priced at above $15k/mth are essentially stagnant. Some of such units have been vacant for 1-2 years.

This means that if one is not buying for own stay,one should be prepared to keep it vacant for at least 2-3 years. At a bargain rental of $10k/mth and assuming a purchase price of $6M, the yield is 2%. It simply does not make sense if you are looking from the rental yield point of view. Most likely, buyer will pay full in cash to reduce holding cost.

As to your second question, luxury PHs are mysterious animals. They are most affected by the property cycle and the price spread is sometimes astonishing. The potential pricing of $1150-$1200 psf has already factored in the "small development" disadvantage. Other comparable PHs in bigger developments are priced at $2k-$2.5k psf.

[mosaic]

your reasoning is very sound. however, if that's the case, an even bigger discount should be warranted.

paying all in cash means no leverage, other investments may be better bets at this time?

the 2kpsf penthosues probably do not have as big a roof terrace as this one? seems very difficult to justify buying this penthouse unless price is REALLY low.

Lol at at 2%p.a yield and paying full cash you don t need to look at other investments. You can "invest" in a 1-2 years promotional fixed deposit.

[propertypal]

indeed...CCR is losing but based on latest report from URA, RCR is losing the most whilst OCR is going upward steadily.

[bargain hunter]

Vermont

23 FEB 2015 12A CAIRNHILL RISE #14-03 1,410sq ft 2,198psf (probably actual)
Previous caveat lodged for same unit on 19 AUG 2014 2,374psf (bukit semb's list price then but buyer prob didn't complete the transaction)

[cartman]

is this vermont unit the showflat which the developer was selling with the id and everything else in that unit? if it is, i think the asking price was like $3.2-3.3M a few months ago.

[bargain hunter]

not sure about that but if it is, quite a nice discount but expectedly not exceptional given that its from developer.

is this vermont unit the showflat which the developer was selling with the id and everything else in that unit? if it is, i think the asking price was like $3.2-3.3M a few months ago.

[bargain hunter]

Montebleu penthouse

Sold 25 FEB 2015 8 MINBU ROAD #34-02 2,896sq ft 1,019psf
Bought 28 APR 2007 1,253psf

first saw it advertised at 3.95m years ago but earlier this year, all the agents started competing to see who can lower the price the fastest haha.

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listi...sale-montebleu

[bullman]

Montebleu penthouse

Sold 25 FEB 2015 8 MINBU ROAD #34-02 2,896sq ft 1,019psf
Bought 28 APR 2007 1,253psf

first saw it advertised at 3.95m years ago but earlier this year, all the agents started competing to see who can lower the price the fastest haha.

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listi...sale-montebleu

I viewed this unit sometime back. The downsides are not having a pool and the open air roof terrace area is really significant. Also, I find the long facade located along the top uncomfortable. Otherwise, the view from the top is fantastic and relatively unblocked as the project is located at the top of a small slope.

At this price, its a pretty good buy.

[bargain hunter]

it also deserves a discount for being at the balestier border of CCR?

I viewed this unit sometime back. The downsides are not having a pool and the open air roof terrace area is really significant. Also, I find the long facade located along the top uncomfortable. Otherwise, the view from the top is fantastic and relatively unblocked as the project is located at the top of a small slope.

At this price, its a pretty good buy.

[bullman]

it also deserves a discount for being at the balestier border of CCR?

The discount has already been factored in at this price. It still carries a D11 address, albeit borderline.

[cartman]

bargainhunter...please share if you have other such bargains in future...before its sold heehee

[bullman]

There are currently a few PHs at the Montana at $1200-$1300 psf if you are interested.

[bargain hunter]

hey, i did! listed all those mortgagee sales at auctions and before that those good buys from propertyguru but nobody hiew haha. i noticed that there are fewer adverts on propertyguru advertising at ever lower prices these days. either there are really fewer now for sale or maybe kenna foreclosed and bank gonna firesale soon?

anyway, as bro bullman mentioned:

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listi...le-the-montana

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listi...le-the-montana

happy bargaining.

bargainhunter...please share if you have other such bargains in future...before its sold heehee

[Sandiwara]

hey, i did! listed all those mortgagee sales at auctions and before that those good buys from propertyguru but nobody hiew haha. i noticed that there are fewer adverts on propertyguru advertising at ever lower prices these days. either there are really fewer now for sale or maybe kenna foreclosed and bank gonna firesale soon?

anyway, as bro bullman mentioned:

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listi...le-the-montana

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listi...le-the-montana

happy bargaining.

Hard to believe that the price difference is around 1M

[dtrax]

Guess how much he made?


http://www.straitstimes.com/news/bus...s-12m-20150311
Sentosa Cove unit sold at a loss of $1.2m
Price gap narrows between luxury and mid-tier homes

By Cheryl Ong

The owner of a Sentosa apartment booked a huge loss after buying the property at luxury home prices and selling it around the rate of a mass-market home.
The 2,626 sq ft unit at The Coast at Sentosa Cove, a luxury condo of 249 apartments in the millionaire enclave, went for just $3.125 million - or $1,190 per sq ft (psf).
That translates to a loss of $1.215 million for the owner, who snapped up the property for $4.34 million - or $1,653 psf - on March 8, 2007, according to caveats lodged with the Singapore Land Authority.
It is also likely to be the cheapest transaction on the island in recent years and the steepest loss among the 18 unprofitable transactions racked up at the Ho Bee Group condominium so far, according to online property portal Square Foot Research.
In fact, it is almost on a par with some mass-market homes. At Kovan Residences, for instance, a 2,196 sq ft unit was sold for $1,010 psf last month.
The Straits Times understands that the owner, a British national working in finance, sold the unit because he had plans to return home.
The price might seem like a "bargain basement price" in psf terms, said Mr Donald Han, managing director of Chestertons, but it still works out to a sizeable quantum.
"Not many people can afford a $3 million property, hence the dearth of buyers in the market and perhaps the speed that the seller required to transact could have led to such a low price," he said.
Forced sales of two units in Turquoise, another Sentosa Cove condo, at almost half their original value last year also surprised the market and indicated that banks were forcing more cash-strapped owners to offload property to meet loan shortfalls.
Luxury homes sold at large losses have been sporadic and isolated to selected projects, primarily in Sentosa, but signs are emerging that developments in the prime districts of nine, 10 and 11 are being hit as well. At Suites @ Newton in Surrey Road, a low of $1,133 psf was racked up for a 1,324 sq ft unit at the 67-unit development in November.
The luxe St Regis Residences Singapore in Tanglin sold units of 3,897 sq ft and 4,941 sq ft at an average of $1,923 psf in January, setting a low for the project and underscoring a closing gulf between luxury and mid-tier homes.
Cushman & Wakefield research head Christine Li noted that average psf prices of a typical high-end condo unit were 2.4 times that of those in the mass market in 2007. That multiple has since shrunk to 1.7 times.
However, Mr Han reckons that the luxury market could be hitting the bottom soon. Freehold land in prime districts is worth between $1,800 psf per plot ratio and $2,000 psf per plot ratio, and units priced below $2,000 psf on strata area are effectively sold at land value. "Price-point wise, it's hard to see luxury prices getting even lower than what they are today," he said.

[hopeful]

unluckily, the seller hasn't met the dream buyer.
The pool of termite loving and crack loving condo dwellers are rather small.
http://www.todayonline.com/singapore...d-over-defects
ps. i also love crack, but a different kind - the wet kind.

[bargain hunter]

reporters took 3 weeks to pick this up?!

the same cannot be said for sentosa:

The Coast

30 JAN 2015 280 OCEAN DRIVE #02-02 2,626sq ft 1,190psf
Bought 8 MAR 2007 1,653psf

anybody want to help with this unit just 2 doors away?

seller bought at: 22 JUN 2011 280 OCEAN DRIVE #02-04 2,357 1,700psf $4,006,900

probably can low ball and try at the last caveat's quantum.

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listi...t-sentosa-cove

[bargain hunter]

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listi...t-sentosa-cove

still available for bargaining 3.125m anyone?

[dtrax]

reporters took 3 weeks to pick this up?!

On contrary it is a smart move to exit now but as for the loss, not exactly given the fact that pounds appreciate by 40% from 07, he sold this yr at 30% lost. After factoring stamp duty and assume unit is for rental with a decent occupancy rate over 5yrs, still an overall profit with a few hundred ks easily

[bargain hunter]

but u r assuming he paid cash or funded the purchase with a gbp loan rite?

if he took an sgd loan, then it would still be a loss?

On contrary it is a smart move to exit now but as for the loss, not exactly given the fact that pounds appreciate by 40% from 07, he sold this yr at 30% lost. After factoring stamp duty and assume unit is for rental with a decent occupancy rate over 5yrs, still an overall profit with a few hundred ks easily

[dtrax]

There are many assumptions from a 3rd party perspective, but the point I am making is that I do know that there are pple who are willing to exit at a loss in property due to FX gains. Bottmline is that since he already made a stupid move in 07, he had no choice to make a smart move to sell now take cash convert to GBP or risk further bleeding

[smellyfish]

On contrary it is a smart move to exit now but as for the loss, not exactly given the fact that pounds appreciate by 40% from 07, he sold this yr at 30% lost. After factoring stamp duty and assume unit is for rental with a decent occupancy rate over 5yrs, still an overall profit with a few hundred ks easily

pound appreciate against sgd by 40% since 2007???? you want to check that.

[hopeful]

1190 out of 1653 is 72%.

if LTV80%, he is fully wiped out. no forex gains to talk of.
if LTV70%, he is also fully wiped out. no forex gains to talk of.

"The Straits Times understands that the owner, a British national working in finance, sold the unit because he had plans to return home."
what are the chances this finance guy pay more than the required DP for foreigner?
if he pays more than required or even pay in full, the question is: why is this finance guy not using leverage?

of course, answers can be found in INLIS, but it is more fun speculating

[august]

1190 out of 1653 is 72%.

if LTV80%, he is fully wiped out. no forex gains to talk of.
if LTV70%, he is also fully wiped out. no forex gains to talk of.

"The Straits Times understands that the owner, a British national working in finance, sold the unit because he had plans to return home."
what are the chances this finance guy pay more than the required DP for foreigner?
if he pays more than required or even pay in full, the question is: why is this finance guy not using leverage?

of course, answers can be found in INLIS, but it is more fun speculating

If he is in finance or bank, he can get LTV 90%.

[bargain hunter]

think bro dtrax means pound DEPRECIATED not appreciated.

to make it simple, its was 3 to 1 then, now its 2 to 1.

pound appreciate against sgd by 40% since 2007???? you want to check that.

[dtrax]

pound appreciate against sgd by 40% since 2007???? you want to check that.

Thanks for pointing that out, my mistake. I meant to say sgd appreciation. Essentially there are foreign buyers who hoot property using home loan with currency hedging in this case by using their domestic currency for a sgd loan at the spot rate in '07 then now sell property at lost and take sgd funds convert back to GBP when he moving back to his homeland. Same tactic as anyone buying overseas properties and leveraging on sgd currency

[dtrax]

1190 out of 1653 is 72%.

if LTV80%, he is fully wiped out. no forex gains to talk of.
if LTV70%, he is also fully wiped out. no forex gains to talk of.

"The Straits Times understands that the owner, a British national working in finance, sold the unit because he had plans to return home."
what are the chances this finance guy pay more than the required DP for foreigner?
if he pays more than required or even pay in full, the question is: why is this finance guy not using leverage?

of course, answers can be found in INLIS, but it is more fun speculating

yup more or less correct and we need to factor in a stamp duty. He probably hooted for rental since his company probably provide him a stay during his work in sg. So factor in 5 yrs of rental less all the fees, less vacancy period, there might be hundreds of K to be made rather than a total $1.2mil lost as what the article portray. Story telling time...