A few CCR transactions sold at a loss (reported in The Edge)

[bargain hunter]

Orange Grove Residences

Sold 8 DEC 2014 31 ORANGE GROVE ROAD #01-05 2,400sq ft 1,875psf
Bought 14 FEB 2007 2,118psf

This project has 1 profitable vs 9 unprofitable transactions already.

[bargain hunter]

Interestingly, for the St Thomas Suites duplex, the only buyer who seriously overpaid was the current seller. The seller who sold it to him also held it for the shortest period and "huatted" the most. We are back to around early 2007 launch prices for this big unit.

10 DEC 2014 31 ST. THOMAS WALK #29-01 4,672sq ft 1,552psf $7,250,000
29 DEC 2010 31 ST. THOMAS WALK #29-01 4,672sq ft 2,213psf $10,338,000
7 SEP 2009 31 ST. THOMAS WALK #29-01 4,672sq ft 1,670psf $7,800,000
16 FEB 2007 31 ST. THOMAS WALK #29-01 4,672 sq ft 1,578psf $7,374,000

[Werther]

Interestingly, for the St Thomas Suites duplex, the only buyer who seriously overpaid was the current seller. The seller who sold it to him also held it for the shortest period and "huatted" the most. We are back to around early 2007 launch prices for this big unit.

10 DEC 2014 31 ST. THOMAS WALK #29-01 4,672sq ft 1,552psf $7,250,000
29 DEC 2010 31 ST. THOMAS WALK #29-01 4,672sq ft 2,213psf $10,338,000
7 SEP 2009 31 ST. THOMAS WALK #29-01 4,672sq ft 1,670psf $7,800,000
16 FEB 2007 31 ST. THOMAS WALK #29-01 4,672 sq ft 1,578psf $7,374,000

Not sure why seller so desperate to sell at such steep loss? Recession coming?

I was told someone also sold their apt at grange heights at steep loss too... Already caveats but I am not sure of their purchase price cos I do not have their unit no. .Can check? I heard loss $500k...I heard seller said just sell wor...

[bargain hunter]

actually for the st thomas suites unit, i view it as an overextended buyer cutting loss.

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listi...-thomas-suites

seller asked for 8.8m but done at 7.25m. from the pictures, the decor seems to indicate self stay?

for grange heights, the latest transaction was for:

5 DEC 2014 15 ST. THOMAS WALK #09-15 RESALE 3,003sq ft STRATA 1,292psf $3,880,000 HDB

no prior caveat was lodged because they just changed "address" haha from grange road to st thomas walk after they were finally cut off from grange road. anyway, the unit was similarly bought during the 2nd/final CCR bull run wave in 2010, just before the 13 Jan 2011 SSD measures started the end of the prime bull.

7 DEC 2010 15 GRANGE ROAD #09-15 RESALE 3,003sq ft STRATA 1,415psf $4,250,000 PRIVATE

i would not consider this as "steep loss", merely 8.7% leh. and the 3.88m price is similar to recent transactions. there are a few drawbacks of grange heights despite the nice big size and low psf:

1) 3003 sq ft split into 3 levels.
2) you need to climb up a few stairs to go from master bedroom to the master toilet. after you climb those 2 or 3 steps, if u r taller than 1.8m, u will have to bend down to avoid hitting your head on the top of the door frame.
3) becoz of the above and the age of the development, rental is low. really quite wasted, could have been a really nice development (the development is not poorly maintained).

Not sure why seller so desperate to sell at such steep loss? Recession coming?

I was told someone also sold their apt at grange heights at steep loss too... Already caveats but I am not sure of their purchase price cos I do not have their unit no. .Can check? I heard loss $500k...I heard seller said just sell wor...

[sgbuyer]

Not sure why seller so desperate to sell at such steep loss? Recession coming?

I was told someone also sold their apt at grange heights at steep loss too... Already caveats but I am not sure of their purchase price cos I do not have their unit no. .Can check? I heard loss $500k...I heard seller said just sell wor...

I'm surprised with the price paid in 2010. Are there any transactions after 29 DEC 2010? Why did he pay a 25% premium over the last purchase less than a year ago?

[Werther]

I noticed all these sellers starts selling after they hit 4 years....so no need to pay tax?

[bargain hunter]

yup. precisely. overpaid. but then again, penthouses have been volatile especially in recent years. 07 peak and late 2010 mini peak, rich buyers were keen to pay HIGHER psf for these big units. this buyer better hope he would never have to sell:

19 SEP 2011 33 ST. THOMAS WALK #33-05 RESALE 7,685sq ft STRATA 2,905psf $22,330,000 PRIVATE

and in current times, if like the recent sale, urgently need to sell, then no choice, the volatility swings the other way and a severe discount of psf off standard units are required. 2014 average is 1882psf, that duplex sold for 1552psf.

I'm surprised with the price paid in 2010. Are there any transactions after 29 DEC 2010? Why did he pay a 25% premium over the last purchase less than a year ago?

[sgbuyer]

yup. precisely. overpaid. but then again, penthouses have been volatile especially in recent years. 07 peak and late 2010 mini peak, rich buyers were keen to pay HIGHER psf for these big units. this buyer better hope he would never have to sell:

19 SEP 2011 33 ST. THOMAS WALK #33-05 RESALE 7,685sq ft STRATA 2,905psf $22,330,000 PRIVATE

and in current times, if like the recent sale, urgently need to sell, then no choice, the volatility swings the other way and a severe discount of psf off standard units are required. 2014 average is 1882psf, that duplex sold for 1552psf.

$22M for a condo!

[bargain hunter]

nope. all units bought before 13 Jan 2011 are not subjected to the SSD. For those units bought in 2011, they can sell next year without having to pay SSD. expect some cut losses. after that, CCR had visibly cooled so I'm not expecting a lot more cut losses for from the 2012 to 2014 purchases from 2016 onwards.

I noticed all these sellers starts selling after they hit 4 years....so no need to pay tax?

[bargain hunter]

another nice penthouse sold:

15 DEC 2014 9 THE METZ 83 DEVONSHIRE ROAD #27-03 CONDOMINIUM FREEHOLD 3,240sq ft STRATA 1,852psf $6,000,000

nice purchase price at the right time: 2 NOV 2005 1,250psf

still made an almost 2m profit despite a 1m discount off asking price: http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listi...-sale-the-metz

[bargain hunter]

Nassim Park Resi

Sold 12 DEC 2014 21 NASSIM ROAD #04-19 3,477sq ft 3,940psf
Bought 5 JAN 2011 3,833psf

couldn't cover stamp duty.

[bargain hunter]

not a loss transaction but some points to highlight:
Melrose Park

Sold 28 NOV 2014 91 KELLOCK ROAD #05-02 1,701sq ft 1,558psf
Bought 19 APR 1999 911psf

took awhile, was first advertised at $3m and above more than half a year ago.
buyer came in at probably what is viewed as a fair price
seller had bought real low just after/still during the asian financial crisis at a significantly lower psf and taking profit. 5 adverts remained despite unit having been sold in end nov but caveat only first spotted today. http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/proje...=psf&order=asc

[bargain hunter]

Botanika

Sold 18 DEC 2014 50 HOLLAND ROAD #01-07 1,636sq ft 1,956psf
Bought 16 APR 2007 2,037psf

[bargain hunter]

bro teddy, u gave up waiting for paterson residence to come down some more and bought at market price?

25 NOV 2014 83 PATERSON ROAD #16-01 RESALE 1,313 STRATA 2,117 2,780,000 PRIVATE

[teddybear]

Got high floor stack 6 for sale? I only like Stack 6 (quiet view and overlooking swimming pool)...

bro teddy, u gave up waiting for paterson residence to come down some more and bought at market price?

25 NOV 2014 83 PATERSON ROAD #16-01 RESALE 1,313 STRATA 2,117 2,780,000 PRIVATE

[art10626]

Not sure if it is a polite question to ask but what is the best way to look for these bargains? I search Internet everyday, go to auctions dun seem to find such gems leh...

[bargain hunter]

which gems are you referring to? earlier this year, i had highlighted several bargains which were for sale for the longest time. they were advertised on propertyguru for many months with no takers. in recent months, i also felt that there has been a slight pick up in buying activity which cleared these bargains. i agree that there aren't many bargains advertised on propertyguru at this point. the newspapers have highlighted that there would be more mortgagee auctions next year. do attend them and look out for them.

i noticed some mortgagee sales are NOT at bargain prices. they seem less urgent than others. so please do your homework.

Not sure if it is a polite question to ask but what is the best way to look for these bargains? I search Internet everyday, go to auctions dun seem to find such gems leh...

[DC33_2008]

Decision on selling properties will be more firm after fed meeting in late jan 2015 on rates normalization.

which gems are you referring to? earlier this year, i had highlighted several bargains which were for sale for the longest time. they were advertised on propertyguru for many months with no takers. in recent months, i also felt that there has been a slight pick up in buying activity which cleared these bargains. i agree that there aren't many bargains advertised on propertyguru at this point. the newspapers have highlighted that there would be more mortgagee auctions next year. do attend them and look out for them.

i noticed some mortgagee sales are NOT at bargain prices. they seem less urgent than others. so please do your homework.

[art10626]

Thanks bargain hunter and DC33_2008! Will keep doing homework and pay rental for another year!

[bargain hunter]

http://www.singaporelawwatch.sg/slw/...utm_medium=rss

wow wow wow, zero cash upfront does exist in sg. hahahahahahahahahahaha. not only zero cash upfront, get cash back when buy property!

[teddybear]

I already mentioned something like that in this forum - developers engaged in all kind tactics and cash back like furniture vouchers and renovation vouchers and ABSD rebates etc! BUT Govt not doing anything about it...

http://www.singaporelawwatch.sg/slw/...utm_medium=rss

wow wow wow, zero cash upfront does exist in sg. hahahahahahahahahahaha. not only zero cash upfront, get cash back when buy property!

[789]

I already mentioned something like that in this forum - developers engaged in all kind tactics and cash back like furniture vouchers and renovation vouchers and ABSD rebates etc! BUT Govt not doing anything about it...

Sounded more like property agent scamming greedy banker and desperate developer. Mastermind should be the property agent not the developer

[amk]

this is a very interesting case. I wonder how UOB can grant a loan so easily for a mere 200k deposit (I guess that is to qualify as priority status). at 6mil list price, loan is at 4.8mil, that's abt 15k mortgage even at low rate time. you have to show your income can support such payment. Did these "proxies" show they have the income to support that ? If they dun, then the bank is overly lenient.
I feel no one is innocent here. The seller (developer) close one eye on the "massive" discount request. Now legally see who can fight better. UOB one is senior counsel I think.

[bargain hunter]

lippo likely to get away with it and the 7 individuals, see who is made the scapegoat lor?

this is a very interesting case. I wonder how UOB can grant a loan so easily for a mere 200k deposit (I guess that is to qualify as priority status). at 6mil list price, loan is at 4.8mil, that's abt 15k mortgage even at low rate time. you have to show your income can support such payment. Did these "proxies" show they have the income to support that ? If they dun, then the bank is overly lenient.
I feel no one is innocent here. The seller (developer) close one eye on the "massive" discount request. Now legally see who can fight better. UOB one is senior counsel I think.

[bargain hunter]

some high ranking UOB banker may also have allowed the loans to be granted leniently? sorry, been watching too many TVB dramas hahahahahahaha.

[prop1688]

181 millions suit.....hope this will not impact to its reit performance.

[Sandiwara]

I am waiting for the final conclusion of this case

[prop1688]

I think it will take some time since uob and lippo are involved.

[amk]

lippo likely to get away with it and the 7 individuals, see who is made the scapegoat lor?

actually I have a diff view. Lippo can be sued for "facilitating a cheat" on a bank. UOB's loan approval process is an internal issue, at most MAS reprimand UOB for "lack of due diligence". But for Lippo, acting blur on this obvious cash back scheme cannot constitute as a defence. The bank has no means of knowing the cash back, the seller has.

clearly UOB is going after Lippo for the money... chasing a few individuals will not help the bottom line.

[bargain hunter]

during the 2011 to 2013 period, the caveats were consistently lodged at 2800psf or thereabouts, similar to the 2007/2008 peaks. can that help lippo argue their ignorance?

i mean, surely lippo must have some defence instead of committing such an obviously amateurish error?

actually I have a diff view. Lippo can be sued for "facilitating a cheat" on a bank. UOB's loan approval process is an internal issue, at most MAS reprimand UOB for "lack of due diligence". But for Lippo, acting blur on this obvious cash back scheme cannot constitute as a defence. The bank has no means of knowing the cash back, the seller has.

clearly UOB is going after Lippo for the money... chasing a few individuals will not help the bottom line.