A few CCR transactions sold at a loss (reported in The Edge)

[walkthetiger]

so were the early 90' to mid 90'

where you can make 20% to 30% within a year

also you can buy Options to buy from sellers and sell it to the next buyer
for a profits within days or sometimes within hours

Yes, I made quite a bit during in 90s as well...

Now people is asking when will CMs be removed, if you ask gov now, they are unsure too, next GE result...will be very very important.

[chestnut]

Enjoying the milk for the last five years and capital gain too. But got to share with garment. There is still a lot of rich people out there. There will be a couple in this quarter. My recent encounter with some rich foreign tai tai can see that they are positive with Singapore market investment.

Brudder, sharing with the government is a privilege....

Can I ask u a question, do you want to pay 100k of income tax or 10k of income tax????

My first taste of milk was in 1997 and from then, never looked back.... My first unit is > doubled and the milk is still flowing... HAHAHAHAHAHA

The issue with having experience is people always think of past numbers....

My friend refused to buy during crisis because he always remembered 1997 numbers and expected prices to drop to that level....

Anyway, I am so glad that there are people at the side ready to jump in when prices drop.... If everyone were to buy like no tomorrow, I will sell....

Replacement units are just too high at >10% + no of years of rental amount...

Over the long term, inflation always wins.... Hahahahahaha

[walkthetiger]

Enjoying the milk for the last five years and capital gain too. But got to share with garment. There is still a lot of rich people out there. There will be a couple in this quarter. My recent encounter with some rich foreign tai tai can see that they are positive with Singapore market investment.

...haha...with the population increasing, easy to see some people sell rubbish still able to make a living for some months.…Maybe you are in some ID related business... those rich foreign tai tai are big customer, but the peak in this business was over.

…I have just chat with children again about spotting the right timing, honestly they don’t have the sharp senses to make money in property.. or they must be sleeping during the super low and super high… Just how to miss those golden opportunities? Don’t understand. It doesn’t come and leave in silent within days, those market sentiment were there for months and years to spot…

[DC33_2008]

First milk was about the same time as you. Rental yield was much better then with less competition. Still holding on as still milking and value more than double and paid up. Was told by people who are real estate experts not to invest during the last crisis but went in anyway. They are still waiting as market defies fundamentals.

Brudder, sharing with the government is a privilege....

Can I ask u a question, do you want to pay 100k of income tax or 10k of income tax????

My first taste of milk was in 1997 and from then, never looked back.... My first unit is > doubled and the milk is still flowing... HAHAHAHAHAHA

The issue with having experience is people always think of past numbers....

My friend refused to buy during crisis because he always remembered 1997 numbers and expected prices to drop to that level....

Anyway, I am so glad that there are people at the side ready to jump in when prices drop.... If everyone were to buy like no tomorrow, I will sell....

Replacement units are just too high at >10% + no of years of rental amount...

Over the long term, inflation always wins.... Hahahahahaha

[princess_morbucks]

the 5y limit is to build. no sell limit.

to hopeful: that lawyer is saying, buy from gov land sale program no need QC restrictions, buy from private collective sales need. hey he is a partner in a big law firm, can't be wrong right ?

http://www.iras.gov.sg/irashome/page.aspx?id=12822

Development Sites with 5 or More Residential Units

Remission of ABSD is allowed for development projects with more than 4 residential units, on the condition that the developer follows through the intention to develop the residential properties for sale. The developer may be eligible for remission of ABSD only if the developer is constituted as a company.

ABSD on the purchase of vacant residential land (include sites purchased from the Government), development sites, and en-bloc purchase of residential properties for the purpose of housing development of more than 4 units, may be remitted upfront subject to the buyer (developer) giving the undertaking to :

a) Complete development and sell all the residential units in the development within 5 years* of the date of Contract or Agreement to purchase the site.

b) Produce the Qualifying Certificate where relevant and housing developer licence within 2 years^ of the date of Contract or Agreement.

c) Produce proof of piling and foundation works and any demolition works within 2 years^ of the date of Contract or Agreement.

d) Produce proof of disposal of all residential units in the development within 5 years* of the date of Contract or Agreement to purchase the site.

*In the case of land purchased through collective sale under the Land Titles (Strata) Act on or after 1 July 2012, the 5 or 2 years conditions (as applicable) will commence from the date of the collective sale order granted under the Act.
^ In the case of land purchased through collective sale under the Land Titles (Strata) Act on or after 1 July 2012, 2 years will commence from the date of the collective sale order granted under the Act.

If conditions (b) and (c) are not met, ABSD (with interest) becomes payable immediately upon the expiry of 2 years.

If condition (a) is not met, ABSD (with interest), becomes payable immediately upon the expiry of 5 years.

Interest is calculated at a rate of 5% per annum commencing from 14 days after the date of acquisition of the site.

The undertaking has to be given by the due date for stamping. Please refer to the template for the Letter of Undertaking By Developers for Development of 5 or more Residential Units (22 KB).

ABSD is payable on documents executed on payment of lease extension premium. Any request for remission of the ABSD payable on the documents executed for extension of lease on residential development sites may be considered. The approval is subject to the developer giving similar undertaking pertaining to the development and disposal of the units within the stipulated timeframe as in the case of land purchase. If the land was purchased before the implementation of ABSD, the timeframe commences from the date of Letter of Acceptance of the lease extension.

Where ABSD remission via undertaking has already been given on the purchase of the land, the ABSD on the lease extension premium paid on the same land may also be remitted subject to the same undertaking. In other words, there would be no need to give another set of undertaking.

[princess_morbucks]

http://sph-vld7.shareinvestor.com/pr...lective-sales/

To avoid paying ABSD, developers must build, sell all units on residential sites within 5 years

[SINGAPORE] The latest measures unveiled by the government are expected to have major implications for developers buying residential land, especially involving collective sale sites. They will have to develop any residential sites they buy from Dec 8 and sell all the units in the new project within five years – if they want to avoid paying the new 10 per cent additional buyer’s stamp duty (ABSD).

“This can be very onerous especially when the property market is slow,” said Credo Real Estate executive director Ong Teck Hui.

Drew & Napier head of tax practice Ong Sim Ho said: “For developers, it has become more difficult and costly to land bank.” He suggested one intention of the new rule could be to give more certainty to supply numbers on the completion of private homes.

Information in the Inland Revenue Authority of Singapore e-tax guide on the ABSD indicates that the new 10 per cent ABSD is payable by corporate entities buying vacant land and development sites for residential use – although they can apply for upfront remission if the buyer (developer) undertakes to develop and dispose of all units in the new development (which must have more than four residential units) within five years of the date of contract or agreement to buy the site, among other conditions.

If this condition is not met, the ABSD (with interest) becomes payable immediately upon the expiry of five years. The residential sites include Government Land Sales (GLS) plots and private-sector sites including en bloc sales.

Market watchers say that with the five-year limit to complete the project and sell all units, developers will have to weigh their land purchase decisions more carefully.

“They must be confident of developing the project and disposing of all residential units in it within five years – taking into account the possibility of any turn in market conditions and in the case of en bloc sales, the risk of a possible delay in court approval,” says Lee Liat Yeang, partner in real estate practice group at law firm Rodyk & Davidson.

For en bloc sales, the date of contract or agreement refers to the date when the site is awarded by the Sales Committee. From this point, it can take six to 12 months or even longer for legal completion of the site’s purchase (including court approval of the en bloc sale).

This additional time eats into the five-year limit the developer has to complete building the new residential project on the site and selling all the units, said Mr Lee.

But for sites bought through the GLS programme, the impact will be less as there is certainty that the legal completion of the land purchase will take place by the 90th day of the site’s award (the latter is deemed date of contract), added Mr Lee.

Credo’s managing director Karamjit Singh said the new rules will hit big collective sales very badly. “For the small and medium-sized en bloc sale sites, most developers would already aim to buy the site, develop it and sell new units within five years, even before the new rules kicked in – whereas for the bigger sites it can be very difficult to be certain that you can clear all your units within five years.”

This will further reduce the attraction of bigger en bloc sale sites, which have already put developers off due to their steep pricing, say analysts.

There has not been any collective sale deal this year exceeding $200 million.

KPMG partner, tax services, Leonard Ong, said: “The ABSD will certainly increase the costs of acquisition by developers who are unable to meet the conditions for remission.

“These costs are then likely to be passed on to end-buyers when the developed residential properties are sold. This would be regardless of who the properties are eventually sold to, including first-time home buyers. This cannot be the intention of the government.”

Under the new rules that took effect yesterday, foreigners and non-individuals (that is, corporates) buying any private residential property in Singapore will pay the 10 per cent ABSD. However, foreigners of certain nationalities – the United States, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Ireland – who fall within the scope of respective free trade agreements will be accorded the same treatment as Singapore citizens.

Singaporeans pay a 3 per cent ABSD for their third or subsequent residential property purchase. Permanent residents pay the same ABSD rate when they buy their second or subsequent home in Singapore.

Even before the ABSD kicked in yesterday, any developer buying a GLS residential site has been given a five-year limit by the state to complete the project, although the GLS conditions do not stipulate any timeframe on the sale of units.

However, when it comes to buying a private sector residential site (for example, through an en bloc sale), foreign developers have to obtain a Qualifying Certificate, conditions for which include a five-year limit to obtain Temporary Occupation Permit (TOP) for the project and another two years from TOP date to finish selling all the units in the project.

Any developer with even a single non-Singaporean shareholder or director is deemed “foreign”. Hence all the big listed developers, including City Developments and CapitaLand, are counted as foreign developers.

Hitherto, Singapore developers (such as Far East Organization and Hoi Hup) have been spared any time limit for completing or selling a residential project on a private site, although they face the five-year limit to complete GLS projects.

“So now the Singapore developers too will face a time limit to complete and sell units in all residential projects on sites bought from Dec 8, – if they wish to avoid ABSD,” said Mr Lee.

[princess_morbucks]

Strange....the above article said the rule is applicable for residential projects on sites bought from Dec 8.

But IRAS website said it is 1 July 2012.

http://www.iras.gov.sg/irashome/page...ential%20Units

[bargain hunter]

Scotts Highpark #18-01 1141 sq ft

Bought 3 May 2007 2097psf
Sold 25 Mar 2014 1841psf

[Werther]

Scotts Highpark #18-01 1141 sq ft

Bought 3 May 2007 2097psf
Sold 25 Mar 2014 1841psf

Hi bargain
Thanks for the update.

[Maxim1]

Scotts Highpark #18-01 1141 sq ft

Bought 3 May 2007 2097psf
Sold 25 Mar 2014 1841psf

I actually went to view this some time back. The biggest problem is that it is extremely close to a neighbouring office block so you might get bored office workers staring into your apartment every day unless you draw the curtains This is just completely unacceptable for me.

Looking at the pics online I suppose all the small units here have the same problem so it doesn't matter whether you get high or low floor since views will be blocked anyway. Otherwise the furnishings is good (quite new) and the lobby/swimming pool was like a nice hotel.

[amk]

teddy,

#06-02 4 bedder at paterson residence, 1496 sq ft transacted at 2072psf. did u buy it?

just observed, even at this low price, the seller made 1mil. after holding 9yrs.

[phantom_opera]

Martina Mansions

7 JUN 2007 #08-02 1,259 1,032psf 5 SEP 1997 1,508psf -599,000 3,562d -3.8%

18 MAR 2013 #08-02 1,259 1,588psf 7 JUN 2007 1,032psf 700,000 2,111 7.7

the 1st guy, no QE from MAS
the 2nd guy, he should kowtow to Bernanke

20 JUN 2012 #17-02 2,443 1,310 4 MAY 2004 696 $1,500,000 2,969 8.1

and above guy should share his profit with Bernanke

22 JUN 2009 #17-01 2,443 941 27 JUL 2007 1,300 -875,900 696 -15.6

and this guy will surely want to kill Bernanke

[bargain hunter]

St Regis Residences #10-10 1959 sq ft

Bought 27 Sep 2007 3450psf
Sold 23 Apr 2014 2399psf

loss > 30%

$ lost in excess of 2.3m

[bargain hunter]

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listi...gis-residences

could this be the unit?

[bargain hunter]

One Tree Hill #04-01 1227 sq ft

Bought 5 May 2007 2400psf
Sold 14 Apr 2014 2037psf

> 550k loss

[stalingrad]

St Regis Residences #10-10 1959 sq ft

Bought 27 Sep 2007 3450psf
Sold 23 Apr 2014 2399psf

loss > 30%

$ lost in excess of 2.3m

Here is a review (by a neighbor of teddy probably) of st. regis on propertyguru. It sums it up pretty well. ghost town and emblem of hubris and greed.

"We have lived in 2 apartments here over 3 years and find little to fault it.

Location is perfect: quiet, close to numerous shops (convenience store 50m away) and restaurants (Akashi superb sushi next door and Ziggys about 3 mins). Best condo gym we saw when looking (bar Ardmore Park) and lightly used.

Living here gets you discounts eating and drinking at the next door St Regis hotel which does a cracking buffet breakfast.

It's pretty new and the interiors are stylish and mostly high quality (bar gimmicky phone entry system and light switches which both tend to fail). Rooms are very large for Singapore.

Staff are also absolutely excellent, not a bad apple among them, helpful and friendly.

Only downside: we thought our kids would make friends here but so many units are either empty or seldom used, so there's hardly ever anyone around in the communal areas.

Community is mix of locals and western and asian expats: universally well off of course and nobody who acts antisocially."

I guess I would be the one acting antisocially if I live there. My wife would love to live there, hobnobbing with the rich and famous. I would be so disgusted by the gentry and their wealth, and live in complete misery.

[bargain hunter]

good leh, everything world class, yet private like landed estate. wahahahahahha.

Here is a review (by a neighbor of teddy probably) of st. regis on propertyguru. It sums it up pretty well. ghost town and emblem of hubris and greed.

"We have lived in 2 apartments here over 3 years and find little to fault it.

Location is perfect: quiet, close to numerous shops (convenience store 50m away) and restaurants (Akashi superb sushi next door and Ziggys about 3 mins). Best condo gym we saw when looking (bar Ardmore Park) and lightly used.

Living here gets you discounts eating and drinking at the next door St Regis hotel which does a cracking buffet breakfast.

It's pretty new and the interiors are stylish and mostly high quality (bar gimmicky phone entry system and light switches which both tend to fail). Rooms are very large for Singapore.

Staff are also absolutely excellent, not a bad apple among them, helpful and friendly.

Only downside: we thought our kids would make friends here but so many units are either empty or seldom used, so there's hardly ever anyone around in the communal areas.

Community is mix of locals and western and asian expats: universally well off of course and nobody who acts antisocially."

I guess I would be the one acting antisocially if I live there. My wife would love to live there, hobnobbing with the rich and famous. I would be so disgusted by the gentry and their wealth, and live in complete misery.

[stalingrad]

good leh, everything world class, yet private like landed estate. wahahahahahha.

yes, like a landed property, with no neighbours except ghosts. You know, I know the neck of the wood very well. When my kids were young, we used to go there often for food and entertainment. With food outlets and entertainment available all over the island, that area (Tanglin) now holds no special attraction to anyone. $2,330 psf is too still to high. Wonder what the moron is that bought the property.

[Werther]

yes, like a landed property, with no neighbours except ghosts. You know, I know the neck of the wood very well. When my kids were young, we used to go there often for food and entertainment. With food outlets and entertainment available all over the island, that area (Tanglin) now holds no special attraction to anyone. $2,330 psf is too still to high. Wonder what the moron is that bought the property.

I was told the 'st Regis' is only licensed for 10 years for this project. is it true? After 10 years, what happened, change name ah?

[hopeful]

... Wonder what the moron is that bought the property.

didnt one china girl say she would rather be a rich moron and a poor smart girl?

[bargain hunter]

couldn't find a popular enough thread to spread the news so i'll post it here since it relates to a loss.

knight frank is selling:

#03-02 Cubik, 81 Lorong K Telok Kurau,D15
Asking $1.29M ($1152 psf)

purchase price #03-02
9 FEB 10
1,119 SQFT
$1,218 PSF
$1,363,734

anyone interested, happy bargain hunting.

[bargain hunter]

Knight Frank is also selling:

#04-04 Paterson Linc 850 sq ft asking 1.8m 2118psf (a new psf low for small units in this project).

no caveats have been lodged for #04 or lower units before.

As reference, #05-04 is 743 sq ft and was sold for 2m in Mar 2010.

#07, 08 and 09-04 are 818 sq ft and were sold for 1.76577m each (#07 and #08) in dec 2009 and 2.03m (#09) in may 2010.

[leesg123]

Knight Frank is also selling:

#04-04 Paterson Linc 850 sq ft asking 1.8m 2118psf (a new psf low for small units in this project).

no caveats have been lodged for #04 or lower units before.

As reference, #05-04 is 743 sq ft and was sold for 2m in Mar 2010.

#07, 08 and 09-04 are 818 sq ft and were sold for 1.76577m each (#07 and #08) in dec 2009 and 2.03m (#09) in may 2010.

Is it facing the overhead bridge directly?

[bargain hunter]

Is it facing the overhead bridge directly?

this is paterson linc. paterson edge is the one which has units facing overhead bridge.

[bargain hunter]

the unit for sale could be by former paterson lodge owner.

Paterson Lodge’s answer to en bloc blues
A COMMON bugbear for property owners selling en bloc is the difficulty they have finding a replacement property of the same size in the same location with their proceeds.

But the 20 owners of the freehold Paterson Lodge unanimously agreed on an answer. In a unique deal with a subsidiary of listed holding company Ace Dynamics, they will not be paid in cash for their units. Instead, they will get a new unit in the project that will go up on their land.

What’s more, it will be slightly bigger than their old unit, on the same floor and facing the same view.

What makes the deal different from a handful of similar cases in the 1990s – like Eng Kong Green and Char Yong Gardens – is that the land on which Paterson Lodge stands will not be transferred to the developer until the new project is completed and the existing owners have received titles to their new apartments.

This is to protect the owners in case the developer goes bust.

In the meantime, the owners have given the developer power of attorney so it can proceed with the 35-unit project.

Apart from the 20 exchange units that Ace Dynamics must give the owners, it can sell the remaining 15 units.

It took the existing owners of Paterson Lodge almost two years to iron out the deal, working with Ace Dynamics, property agent Knight Frank and real estate lawyer SK Phang of Phang & Co.

‘An exchange like this requires the unanimous consent of owners,’ said Knight Frank executive director Foo Suan Peng.

‘This means it is easier to replicate this collective exchange in estates with a smaller number of units, and very importantly, where owners are very comfortable with one another and cooperative. This isn’t a mere financial deal where owners walk away and need not see their neighbours again.’

Ace Dynamics executive director Lim How Boon said: ‘Not a single cent changed hands. And the owners get back the chance to stay in their units.’

Paterson Lodge sales committee chairman Quah Soo Gee said that the collective sale exchange allows all the owners to keep their prestigious address, besides significantly improving the value of their units.

Although three-quarters of the owners do not live in the development, they liked the deal as the rental value of the new apartments will be higher than that of the old ones they’re giving up, said Mr Quah, an architect by training.

Agreeing with this, fellow sales committee member John Cunningham, who has owned his unit for about five years, described the collective exchange as an ‘entrepreneurial solution’ for owners who like living in the same area after they’ve done an en bloc sale.

‘It is a nice exchange. We’re getting back much nicer apartments than the units we exchanged in a nicer environment and with facilities,’ said Mr Cunningham, creative director of ACTs of Life, which conducts speech, dance and arts classes and workshops.

‘If I don’t do an exchange, it (my apartment) is going to be sold out from under me and I won’t be able to live in this area – even if I screamed all the way to the STB (Strata Titles Board). This is the better of two evils.’

This is how the deal was structured. The existing 20 units in six-storey Paterson Lodge comprise 10 apartments of 743 sq ft and 10 others of 926 sq ft. The new Paterson Lodge that Ace Dynamics will build will be a 10-storey development with 35 units ranging in size from 861 sq ft to 1,033 sq ft.

Ace Dynamics will have to pay a development charge of about $4 million for the right to enhance the use of the site by building a new project with a gross floor area (GFA) of 32,472 sq ft – about 57 per cent more than the existing GFA.

On the top floor will be three penthouses. The project will also have a swimming pool, jacuzzi, gym and BBQ pits – none of which are present at today’s Paterson Lodge.

The current values of the existing apartments range from $630,000 to $800,000. The new units, assuming a price of $1,200 psf on average currently, will be worth about $1 million to $1.24 million.

Assuming prime district residential property prices escalate to $1,700 psf in two to three years, when units in the redeveloped project are handed over to the owners, the replacement units could be worth $1.5 million to $1.8 million, says Knight Frank.

‘This works out to a collective exchange premium of at least 100 per cent for the owners,’ said Mr Foo.

The advantage to the developer is that it does not have to fork out a large amount of money to buy the land upfront, thus saving on finance costs and cash flow.

It basically only pays for the construction cost and fees.

Lawyer SK Phang said the Paterson Lodge deal is the first collective exchange since en bloc rules were amended in late 1999 to allow collective sales without unanimous approval. ‘However, for a deal like this to go through, you have to get unanimous approval, otherwise it gets messy.’

Current en bloc sale legislation provides that minority owners who object to a collective sale must be given a cash payment option. To determine the cash price, the most transparent method is to hold a tender and use the highest bid as the basis. However, the top bidder may not want to do an exchange, and may be unhappy if his bid is used only to serve as a pricing peg for another developer to do an exchange, Dr Phang explained.

Hence, collective exchanges are best in developments with a relatively small number of like-minded owners.

Ace Dynamics’ Mr Lim said his company is looking at other such deals in prime areas.

Source : Business Times - 23 Mar 2006

[bargain hunter]

if so, then the #04-04 owner bought on 18 Mar 1996 at $868k

[bargain hunter]

bro amk, as promised, 1st resale (still a subsale at this point) for The Glyndebourne is a loss:

#04-19 1475 sq ft

Bought 16 Nov 2010 2180psf
Sold 24 Apr 2014 1900psf

loss > $500k (>15.5%)

[Werther]

bro amk, as promised, 1st resale (still a subsale at this point) for The Glyndebourne is a loss:

#04-19 1475 sq ft

Bought 16 Nov 2010 2180psf
Sold 24 Apr 2014 1900psf

loss > $500k (>15.5%)

Ouch! Very pain indeed.

Possible to be decoupling or not? Quite unlikely too. Just exploring... Don't get angry bro bargain.

Once again, many thanks for your updates.

[bargain hunter]

i feel its genuine, penthouses sold at 1800psf, 1900psf seems fair.

Ouch! Very pain indeed.

Possible to be decoupling or not? Quite unlikely too. Just exploring... Don't get angry bro bargain.

Once again, many thanks for your updates.

[stalingrad]

bro amk, as promised, 1st resale (still a subsale at this point) for The Glyndebourne is a loss:

#04-19 1475 sq ft

Bought 16 Nov 2010 2180psf
Sold 24 Apr 2014 1900psf

loss > $500k (>15.5%)

Remember this one. Steps away from Botanic Garden. Very pretentious name. Residents can barely speak English, but they live in Glyndebourne.