A few CCR transactions sold at a loss (reported in The Edge)

[bargain hunter]

Orange Grove Residences 2002 sq ft

Bought 14 Feb 2007 2016psf
Sold 24 Jul 2013 1888psf

1 win (made 5% gross) vs 7 loss for this project

[bargain hunter]

more Orange Grove Resi

#05-12 3143 sq ft

Bought 23 Jul 2007 2350psf
Sold 31 Jul 2013 1782psf

Gross Loss >$2m. 27% lost in 6 years.

[bargain hunter]

The Trillium #27-05 2217 sq ft

Bought 25 Feb 2010 2121psf
Sold 25 Jul 2013 2101psf

[amk]

.. on the other hand, there is something like this :

31 Jul 2013 8 Napier Road #XX-XX Resale 5,909 Strata 3,450 20,386,050 Private
25 Jul 2013 8 Napier Road #XX-XX Resale 4,112 Strata 3,008 12,368,888 Private

[thomastansb]

Looks like big units in D9, D10 are making huge losses...

[puffer_fish]

Great news for owner occupiers

[bargain hunter]

these penthouses are actually developer sales, not really "resales". its coz project has TOP and already received CSC cert.

.. on the other hand, there is something like this :

31 Jul 2013 8 Napier Road #XX-XX Resale 5,909 Strata 3,450 20,386,050 Private
25 Jul 2013 8 Napier Road #XX-XX Resale 4,112 Strata 3,008 12,368,888 Private

[bargain hunter]

these big units are now mostly attractive to owner occupiers from here on. the low yield, high quantum (low affordability), low leverage makes them much less attractive as an investment.

Great news for owner occupiers

[puffer_fish]

err...........the developer size and price tag, a bit out of my budget

only aiming for resale, cheaper

[k00L]

Singapore has several characteristics of London - rule of law, strong legal, financial system, stable government - so in time to come, Singapore will be considered as safe haven of the east.

The CCR - Nassim, Jervois, Tanglin, etc - are leafy, quiet, exclusive neighborhoods just like Chelsea, Kensington, Mayfair in London.

The freehold CCR properties are very much sought-over by the overseas UHNWIs - what stopping them from coming in to buy is the additional 15% stamp duty.

I dont know whether eventually they will relent and buy or whether they will wait for the ABSD to be removed, but one thing for sure is if you buy into these places, the capital value will be preserved in the long run.

[ahkongkid]

lol this mantra has been repeated ad nauseam since 2005, and that is why we now have this thread tracking these huge CCR losses when the rest of the "commoners" are making good money on their "less glamorous" properties.

Singapore has several characteristics of London - rule of law, strong legal, financial system, stable government - so in time to come, Singapore will be considered as safe haven of the east.

The CCR - Nassim, Jervois, Tanglin, etc - are leafy, quiet, exclusive neighborhoods just like Chelsea, Kensington, Mayfair in London.

The freehold CCR properties are very much sought-over by the overseas UHNWIs - what stopping them from coming in to buy is the additional 15% stamp duty.

I dont know whether eventually they will relent and buy or whether they will wait for the ABSD to be removed, but one thing for sure is if you buy into these places, the capital value will be preserved in the long run.

[puffer_fish]

this I agree with you..my D15 portfolio has consistently out performed my CCR.

to me, guess it's more of the preference to stay within a certain area then monetary rewards

anyway, may everyone profit from their decisions

[amk]

these penthouses are actually developer sales, not really "resales". its coz project has TOP and already received CSC cert.

I wasn't referring to the "resale/new sale" stuff.
I was referring to the $500 psf diff in one week, for a bigger unit some more

[k00L]

this I agree with you..my D15 portfolio has consistently out performed my CCR.

to me, guess it's more of the preference to stay within a certain area then monetary rewards

anyway, may everyone profit from their decisions

At current cycle, i am more inclined to dispose my ocr property to realise the higher gain, and keep my ccr. Believe ccr value will be better preserved in the down cycle.

[ahkongkid]

but of course one would sell the one which has made considerable profits than the loss making one. and hope for the best that the anaemic CCR will (if ever) recover to its previous heights.

At current cycle, i am more inclined to dispose my ocr property to realise the higher gain, and keep my ccr. Believe ccr value will be better preserved in the down cycle.

[k00L]

but of course one would sell the one which has made considerable profits than the loss making one. and hope for the best that the anaemic CCR will (if ever) recover to its previous heights.

Glad to hear from people who promotes OCR over CCR - it sure makes my disposal of my OCR much easier.
Guess my 1-bedder and 2-bedder CCR wouldnt be characterized as loss-making, perhaps it will happen in severe downturn, but I would be glad to pick up one more CCR from capital from OCR disposal.

[Adva181]

So far all my properties are in D1 n D7.
Still going pretty strong as compared to D9, D10, D11.
3 years ago nearly bought D10, but last min change to D7 as there is less competition over there. Heng arh..

[hopeful]

I wasn't referring to the "resale/new sale" stuff.
I was referring to the $500 psf diff in one week, for a bigger unit some more

i agree the jump in price is fishy.
what more, 3 PH transactions in 3 months.

went to the official site, http://www.8napier.com/
very nice 360 panorama, lots of greenery, except that the US embassy is observable by the PH units and it also means that US embassy is also observing the PH units. creepy.

[ahkongkid]

needs no promotion, its plain for all to see

Glad to hear from people who promotes OCR over CCR - it sure makes my disposal of my OCR much easier.
Guess my 1-bedder and 2-bedder CCR wouldnt be characterized as loss-making, perhaps it will happen in severe downturn, but I would be glad to pick up one more CCR from capital from OCR disposal.

[k00L]

So far all my properties are in D1 n D7.
Still going pretty strong as compared to D9, D10, D11.
3 years ago nearly bought D10, but last min change to D7 as there is less competition over there. Heng arh..

Glad to hear that - your Cliff will have further upside when Guocoland TP180 is formally launched later this year.

[Ringo33]

here is my take.

Over the years, CCR is pretty much the same CCR in the past but OCR is no longer the same OCR in the past because more jobs and schools are moving out of CCR and more amenities are build in OCR.

So the gap between CCR and OCR will be permanently narrowed unless you are comparing CCR property in very sort after and prime locations. (like i said many times, no all CCR properties are prime)

[walkthetiger]

here is my take.
So the gap between CCR and OCR will be permanently narrowed unless you are comparing CCR property in very sort after and prime locations. (like i said many times, no all CCR properties are prime)

Agree, gap between CCR and certain OCR projects will be permanently narrowed, that should happen when and if all Gov goes well like they hoped, still it is a new frontier.

Currently certain OCR projects are already selling at prices exceeding CCR, it seems defying gravity, really too hot. KBW may review this soon, cooling it down a little.

[Rosy]

Currently certain OCR projects are already selling at prices exceeding CCR, it seems defying gravity, really too hot. KBW may review this soon, cooling it down a little.

I do not believe ocr psf had exceeded ccr psf if u compare new projects with similar size. It is not possible.

[Rosy]

here is my take.

Over the years, CCR is pretty much the same CCR in the past but OCR is no longer the same OCR in the past because more jobs and schools are moving out of CCR and more amenities are build in OCR.

So the gap between CCR and OCR will be permanently narrowed unless you are comparing CCR property in very sort after and prime locations. (like i said many times, no all CCR properties are prime)

Actually the gap has not really narrowed much if u compare ccr and ocr new projects with similar size.

[DKSG]

Actually the gap has not really narrowed much if u compare ccr and ocr new projects with similar size.

The OCR narrowed rubbish is what people who bought overpriced OCR PCs try to convince others.

If you look at major cities around the world, it is the same trend. Look at NY, Tokyo, even Makati... All same case, the theory of concentration will also work.

So, if people bought new 99 LH $1,7xx psf studio in Jurong while knowing that there are studio nearer to town selling for $1,8xx, they know they made a huge mistake. Their only hope now is to wish that OCR (and I mean the damn faraway OCR) prices can narrow with prime area.

Orchard Road is always Orchard Road, Newton is always Newton. River Valley is always River Valley.

DKSG

[DKSG]

I do not believe ocr psf had exceeded ccr psf if u compare new projects with similar size. It is not possible.

Very simple. Just ask yourself if a brand new studio in Jurong selling for $1,7xx and a similar studio in Redhill/Queenstown selling for $1,8xx which one will you buy ?

In fact, if you stretch this further, a brand new haven TOP studio in Jurong at $1,7xx vs a 3-4 year old similar FH studio in Queenstown selling for $1,9xx, which one will you buy ? Or which one has higher potential ?


DKSG

[Ringo33]

Do not under estimate government decentralizing effort and urban development plan. Like I said before, not all CCR are prime, so dont buy for the sake of the CCR label.

[minority]

Clearly show OCR is over priced. Either that or CCR is underprice. depends if u think there are more room to move upwards..

If its downwards. Then I feel OCR have the most to drop.

[Ringo33]

Clearly show OCR is over priced. Either that or CCR is underprice. depends if u think there are more room to move upwards..

If its downwards. Then I feel OCR have the most to drop.

This chart doesnt reflect the absolute price, only an indicator of how much the price has risen relative to the past and it clearly show that OCR prices has risen more than CCR properties but does meant that they are more expensive.

The underlying force that is driving the OCR property is purely from demand, and whats driving the demand are better products from developers, better amenities and better transport network.

[Pynchmail]

This chart doesnt reflect the absolute price, only an indicator of how much the price has risen relative to the past

Correct. The starting point for CCR, RCR and OCR are all 100 in 1998. Now both CCR and OCR are at about the same level which means both have appreciated about the same over the last 15 years with RCR lagging behind.