A few CCR transactions sold at a loss (reported in The Edge)

**bargain hunter** · 02-01-13, 17:45

bought 2007-08-13 2499psf 2077 sq ft
sold 2012-11-09 2000psf
gross loss 1m

bought 2007-07-25 2799psf 2077 sq ft
sold 2012-10-29 2190psf
gross loss 1.26m

**kane** · 02-01-13, 18:05

Which project is this where the owner lost so much money?

**bargain hunter** · 02-01-13, 18:09

read the headings. the past few posts are for scotts square, orange grove resi, the orange grove, st regis and oceanfront. which one u asking for?

Originally Posted by kane

Which project is this where the owner lost so much money?

**lajia** · 02-01-13, 18:13

I think it could be another down yr for CCR. No doubt it is very tempting to jump in....but then, policies have changed, situation changed which I have not seen any turn around for CCR in sight yet. I mean in general. There could be some projects which will outperform.

Originally Posted by Ringo33

Been awhile since someone posted something on this thread. Has the market really turn around?

**kane** · 02-01-13, 18:15

Originally Posted by bargain hunter

read the headings. the past few posts are for scotts square, orange grove resi, the orange grove, st regis and oceanfront. which one u asking for?

Your last post where both owners lost over $1m.

**bargain hunter** · 02-01-13, 18:20

its very fragmented within CCR. only those with a deadly combi of big size and high psf sold in the 2006 to 2007 period were sold at a loss in 2012.

Originally Posted by lajia

I think it could be another down yr for CCR. No doubt it is very tempting to jump in....but then, policies have changed, situation changed which I have not seen any turn around for CCR in sight yet. I mean in general. There could be some projects which will outperform.

**bargain hunter** · 02-01-13, 18:21

the oceanfront at sentosa

Originally Posted by kane

Your last post where both owners lost over $1m.

**lajia** · 02-01-13, 18:26

I mean in another thread, seems like there is quite a % of units unsold still....how long can the developer hold after TOP for a while. The interest seems like is not there. maybe after today's tax increase for those wealthier Americans, they might come over to buy and that might change the situation.

Originally Posted by bargain hunter

its very fragmented within CCR. only those with a deadly combi of big size and high psf sold in the 2006 to 2007 period were sold at a loss in 2012.

**PropertyNewbie** · 02-01-13, 18:57

As long as the 10% ABSD for foreigners remains, prospects look bleak for CCR properties

**kane** · 02-01-13, 19:04

Sentosa only worth low 2000psf eh.

sh · 02-01-13, 20:23

Rental return does not justify the prices. See more downside, unless rental picks up again... Doesn't look promising...

Units in CCR are going down to keep quantum low.....

**teddybear** · 02-01-13, 20:32

I think CCR are very cheap vs OCR now. While counting those big losses in absolute terms now for CCR, we will be looking at big losses in % terms in 2019 for OCR (Much bigger % than CCR)! Things just move in cycles!

Originally Posted by lajia

I think it could be another down yr for CCR. No doubt it is very tempting to jump in....but then, policies have changed, situation changed which I have not seen any turn around for CCR in sight yet. I mean in general. There could be some projects which will outperform.

3C · 02-01-13, 21:01

Very soon buyers will realized there are no difference between OCR or CCR or RR. Singapore is limited in size lah. Already place like Tampines has been earmarked as part of decentralized business district. For status maybe Christmas island or sentosa or Pulau Ubin can be developed into high class area for the rich. Maybe then still worth considering for status sake.

**Allthepies** · 02-01-13, 21:10

There only 2 growth region which I see.. 1 in OCR, 1 in CCR

**lajia** · 02-01-13, 21:15

Im just saying that for 2013, yet to see turning pt for CCR. when it will turn around depend on policies and situation.
So, as mentioned, it is tempting, but the timing might not be rite...

Originally Posted by teddybear

I think CCR are very cheap vs OCR now. While counting those big losses in absolute terms now for CCR, we will be looking at big losses in % terms in 2019 for OCR (Much bigger % than CCR)! Things just move in cycles!

**bargain hunter** · 02-01-13, 21:19

that's for oceanfront. for the oldest condo, the berth (completed in 2006), there were 7 transactions in H2 2012 in a tight range of 1599 to 1653psf. so u can use that as a base and extrapolate the prices depending on "newness" and "luxuriousness".

Originally Posted by kane

Sentosa only worth low 2000psf eh.

**kane** · 02-01-13, 21:36

Originally Posted by bargain hunter

that's for oceanfront. for the oldest condo, the berth (completed in 2006), there were 7 transactions in H2 2012 in a tight range of 1599 to 1653psf. so u can use that as a base and extrapolate the prices depending on "newness" and "luxuriousness".

the original prices of the berth weren't that far from the 1600psf right?

**bargain hunter** · 02-01-13, 22:44

very far. if berth was completed in 2006, u can guess when it was launched. during the darkest days of the last decade and when there was NOTHING on sentosa. if my memory hasn't failed me, prob about 800psf.

Originally Posted by kane

the original prices of the berth weren't that far from the 1600psf right?

**leesg123** · 02-01-13, 22:58

Originally Posted by 3C

Very soon buyers will realized there are no difference between OCR or CCR or RR. Singapore is limited in size lah. Already place like Tampines has been earmarked as part of decentralized business district. For status maybe Christmas island or sentosa or Pulau Ubin can be developed into high class area for the rich. Maybe then still worth considering for status sake.

Toyota vs lexus, both are car, same owner. People still view them of two social class.

**kane** · 02-01-13, 23:48

Originally Posted by bargain hunter

very far. if berth was completed in 2006, u can guess when it was launched. during the darkest days of the last decade and when there was NOTHING on sentosa. if my memory hasn't failed me, prob about 800psf.

Maybe i was thinking of oceanfront. Remembered an ex colleague who said he bought one condo unit on sentosa for about 1300-1500psf area.

**bargain hunter** · 03-01-13, 01:27

if he bot at the launch of that condo, could be either the coast or the oceanfront in 2005/2006.

Originally Posted by kane

Maybe i was thinking of oceanfront. Remembered an ex colleague who said he bought one condo unit on sentosa for about 1300-1500psf area.

3C · 03-01-13, 08:26

Originally Posted by leesg123

Toyota vs lexus, both are car, same owner. People still view them of two social class.

I used to see lots of japanese cars in my office. Now I see more and more Continental cars. Asked buyers why? Answer: price almost the same. If more ah bengs could afford to shift to CCR what do you think? Is there anymore exclusiveness that justified a premium price?

**Shanhz** · 03-01-13, 09:24

Originally Posted by bargain hunter

its very fragmented within CCR. only those with a deadly combi of big size and high psf sold in the 2006 to 2007 period were sold at a loss in 2012.

i remember my angmo boss was staying in a huge apt in orchard for a huge rental... those numbers are not quite likely to repeat today.

**Shanhz** · 03-01-13, 09:30

Originally Posted by 3C

I used to see lots of japanese cars in my office. Now I see more and more Continental cars. Asked buyers why? Answer: price almost the same. If more ah bengs could afford to shift to CCR what do you think? Is there anymore exclusiveness that justified a premium price?

i think OCR and CCR status will stay. i am sure if you tell pple (i mean normal pple lah) you stay in sixth avenue, orchard rd or MBR, they will mouth big big and say "wah".

just like you put a lexus badge on a harrier and 80% of the population will think you have made it (except for the 20% who can tell the diff).

but i believe the gap will be narrower, esp for OCR in prime locations (eg: MRT)

**bargain hunter** · 03-01-13, 09:45

The Laurels

bought 2010-04-05 3005psf 883 sq ft
sold 2012-10-15 3002psf
small loss

bought 2010-05-04 2885psf 1001 sq ft
sold 2012-12-19 2947psf
gross profit insufficient to even offset 3% stamp duty

**bargain hunter** · 03-01-13, 10:00

this one is a surprise, even cosmopolitan had some pple who lost a little money selling towards end dec:

bought 2007-08-06 1141 sq ft 2250psf
sold 2012-11-16 2209psf

bought 2007-08-10 2199psf
sold 2012-11-14 2087psf

**bargain hunter** · 03-01-13, 10:02

scotts highpark

bought 2008-02-04 2370psf 4209 sq ft
sold 2012-12-05 2115psf
gross loss 1.1m. but % wise didn't fall much.

**stalingrad** · 03-01-13, 10:26

Originally Posted by bargain hunter

scotts highpark

bought 2008-02-04 2370psf 4209 sq ft
sold 2012-12-05 2115psf
gross loss 1.1m. but % wise didn't fall much.

if he put only 20% down and pay for the rest with bank loan, he would have lost at least 50%.

**bargain hunter** · 03-01-13, 10:29

The Sail

bought 2010-04-29 2080psf 678 sq ft
sold 2012-12-10 2047psf

just a small loss.

**bargain hunter** · 03-01-13, 10:39

76 shenton was very hot during the april 2010 launch.

so far, there have only been 3 sub sales, unit size and quantum are not excessive, but:

bought 2010-04-20 1990psf 592 sq ft
sold 2012-10-25 2060psf

3.5% gross profit. unless the seller is an agent, prob lost money.

bought 2010-04-12 2043psf 624 sq ft
sold 2012-09-14 2063psf

cannot cover stamp duty

bought 2010-04-16 1869psf 592 sq ft
sold 2012-07-17 1892psf

cannot cover stamp duty

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