A few CCR transactions sold at a loss (reported in The Edge)

[Spincity1]

The first point, SG thrives in being an excellent place to do business, trade. Due to social reasons, there was a need to aggressively bring down property prices using a myriad of means and replace the "lost trade" with tax on multiple property owners.

In order for SG to continue to thrive in the next 100 years, it must still be an excellent place to do business, to trade. While the Govt may allow a degree of market forces to bring down extreme developers and extreme buyers or drive them away, there is still an important role they play in the whole market. Unless the Govt is pushing for a model of 100% HDB which will also bring down the whole system.

We buy into SG also partly because we trust that the best decisions for the populace will be made at all times. Best decisions for personal productivity and motivation, growth, social equality etc, are of prime considerations than merely the price of something, anything from cars to houses.

To be frank, I am worried about the compulsory PPVC for developers from 2015 GLS bids and expected increase in construction costs over the next few years (no construction levy deferment). I would buy a new gem today and an old gem tomorrow based on those reasons, but will also give the new technologies the benefit of the doubt to speak for themselves tomorrow.

Thanks for sharing you views
So long as Singapore stays relevant in the global context (as is today or even more relevant), the property market will fare well.
Just that since 2006 the supply was pretty much planned based on a sustained (big) increase of inflow of foreigners to Singapore, which may not happen any time soon for both domestic political reasons and the shifts in global economy, the surplus in supply may take longer to be taken up before seeing a market-wide appreciation in property price, not from the price today but the price then. I won't call 5-year a generous buffer but just my opinion though

Isn't PPVC only compulsory on selected GLS sites? I believe that there are design constraints for PPVC hence am not sure if it can be imposed industry-wide, and commercially it may not be necessary nor make sense, neither.

[Kelonguni]

A long long time ago, the only private housing units were, well, detached housing...

Then came semi-Ds and terrace landed. Detached housing became something much more sought after but rarer, and the vast majority had to contend to the semi-Ds and terrace landed.

Then came strata housing. The old strata housing units were spacious and huge beyond my comfort to clean. Most also came with Freehold status. Semi-Ds and terrace supply dipped tremendously and people had to accept the strata housing units as the only type of private housing available...

Then came the 99-Yr leaseholds strata housing. Now anything with FH status became rare and valued as 99Yr LHs became the only type of new housing type most people can access.

Now comes PPVC in the name of reducing construction costs in the long run. In the future, I believe the dominant type will also be this type. We have seen two bids last year in Clementi area all based on this. In the short run, the costs of PPVC are actually higher, and in the long run, the full effect of the climatic conditions on this type of development I believe has not been fully studied (my own bias), so the first years of batches will have to bear with the effects say two decades down the road, if there are any (possibly none though).

So if it were you, how would you make your choice?

That's why my first response: you would wait till rents stabilise, confirmed and chopped the Govt bringing in enough foreign talents, prices start to move up, then you buy with confidence.

No right or wrong way - its the way our thinking works.

Thanks for sharing you views
So long as Singapore stays relevant in the global context (as is today or even more relevant), the property market will fare well.
Just that since 2006 the supply was pretty much planned based on a sustained (big) increase of inflow of foreigners to Singapore, which may not happen any time soon for both domestic political reasons and the shifts in global economy, the surplus in supply may take longer to be taken up before seeing a market-wide appreciation in property price, not from the price today but the price then. I won't call 5-year a generous buffer but just my opinion though

Isn't PPVC only compulsory on selected GLS sites? I believe that there are design constraints for PPVC hence am not sure if it can be imposed industry-wide, and commercially it may not be necessary nor make sense, neither.

[bargain hunter]

another argument for having 5 years as sufficient buffer is that, assuming prices decline gradually and transaction volumes remain low, that means a lot of pent up demand is built up as salaries continue to at least stay constant and/or grow?

[Spincity1]

A long long time ago, the only private housing units were, well, detached housing...

Then came semi-Ds and terrace landed. Detached housing became something much more sought after but rarer, and the vast majority had to contend to the semi-Ds and terrace landed.

Then came strata housing. The old strata housing units were spacious and huge beyond my comfort to clean. Most also came with Freehold status. Semi-Ds and terrace supply dipped tremendously and people had to accept the strata housing units as the only type of private housing available...

Then came the 99-Yr leaseholds strata housing. Now anything with FH status became rare and valued as 99Yr LHs became the only type of new housing type most people can access.

Now comes PPVC in the name of reducing construction costs in the long run. In the future, I believe the dominant type will also be this type. We have seen two bids last year in Clementi area all based on this. In the short run, the costs of PPVC are actually higher, and in the long run, the full effect of the climatic conditions on this type of development I believe has not been fully studied (my own bias), so the first years of batches will have to bear with the effects say two decades down the road, if there are any (possibly none though).

So if it were you, how would you make your choice?

That's why my first response: you would wait till rents stabilise, confirmed and chopped the Govt bringing in enough foreign talents, prices start to move up, then you buy with confidence.

No right or wrong way - its the way our thinking works.

detached housing, semi-Ds, strata housing are type of housing,
FH or 99-LH are the type/tenure of ownership
PPVC is the way of construction

As all these are mixed in your reply, I am not sure what do you mean by how I would make my choice
but I would always prefer FH, and prefer the penthouse in a nice condo to a landed house

As for your first response, one day, rent will stabilized, with or without foreign talents;
and government always can confirm and chop whatever it intends to implement, including to bring in more foreign talents, but whether or not it will realize is a different matter
Even if the increase in price is observed, it may only be a impulsive response to the policy of the market and may not last

for example, if today the rent has stabilized, and the government reduces the ABSD, and relaxes the foreigner's quota

Do you think
if the demand for rental will improve enough to move the rent?
if the hard demand, for occupation and not for investment purpose, for housing from both local and foreigners will increase enough to move the property price?

Thanks for your sharing

[cartman]

so far, the record "official" low psf is for #13-04 1335 sq ft sold for $2.65m at 1985psf on 2 Mar 2015. i guess can use that as a reference. does anyone remember when bukit semb sold the balance units at a huge discount in 2014, was it cheaper than this? (the caveats were lodged at 22xxpsf to 26xxpsf but actual prices were at a huge discount to this)

thanks for sharing bargain hunter.

was told the balance sales in 2014 were transacted with 12% rebates

[amk]

another argument for having 5 years as sufficient buffer is that, assuming prices decline gradually and transaction volumes remain low, that means a lot of pent up demand is built up as salaries continue to at least stay constant and/or grow?

yes most definitely. a whole generation of ppl waiting to upgrade. and the value of money is decreasing every day, whatever your "official inflation" numbers are.

a fresh grade used to draw just 2k plus in the 200#, now ppl are talking 3k, very soon 3.5k.

1mil used to sound like a very big number (remember the hoohah when the 1st EC PH selling for 1mil ?). Today to sound like big number it's more like 2mil. And give it a few years 3mil will become "normal".

think about it: in 5yrs time if Newton is not even worth 2000psf, it will be quite sad for SG.

[Spincity1]

another argument for having 5 years as sufficient buffer is that, assuming prices decline gradually and transaction volumes remain low, that means a lot of pent up demand is built up as salaries continue to at least stay constant and/or grow?

only if salaries continue to grow, which I pretty much hope so
or it will be sad for the majority of the Singaporeans

However, I am not too optimistic about it

the pent up demand for own-stay will not be so strong as HDB flats are always the fallback option and upgrade is not a necessity
In addition, for upgraders they normally want to keep their current property so most likely they will need to find a tenant, so both the selling price and rental market will affect this group of people. A low selling price does not warrant a upgrade is the rental market is not good.

My view is the the pent up demand is more for investment purpose, and not many investors can hold on multiple investment properties without a reasonable rental return

So unless the hard demand for rental and own-stay is back, I don't see a sustained price increase to happen
and we may not see that in 5 years, and I very much hope that I am wrong

[jwong71]

if govt reverse the rules to allow owners to hold private property, and buy a hdb.

it will be different, the pent up demand for own stay

govt always change ruling accordingly to situations.

[Spincity1]

if govt reverse the rules to allow owners to hold private property, and buy a hdb.

it will be different, the pent up demand for own stay

govt always change ruling accordingly to situations.

then HDB flats will be purely for investment purpose, which defeats the purpose of public housing
even if that is to happen, to whom will the owners rent their HDB flats? foreigners or citizens? citizens can buy from government directly with grants, and will there be enough foreigners, the kind of FT that Singaporeans want, to fill up those rental HDB flats?

[bargain hunter]

final unit at hallmark sold:

HALLMARK RESIDENCES EWE BOON ROAD Condominium 10 CCR Freehold Resale 1 $5,950,000 - 3,660sq ft Strata 11 to 15 1,626psf Mar-16

[bargain hunter]

saw this advertised as "closing soon".

LATITUDE JALAN MUTIARA Condominium 10 CCR Freehold Resale 1 $5,500,000 - 2,680sq ft Strata 16 to 20 2,052psf Mar-16

so it really did close afterall.

[bargain hunter]

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listi...one-devonshire

ask 3.2m, sold at 2.8m. 4 bedroom sold at 3 bedroom price. u guys din grab? or is it bro HP65 grabbed liao?

ONE DEVONSHIRE DEVONSHIRE ROAD Condominium 09 CCR Freehold Resale 1 $2,800,000 - 1,593sq ft Strata 21 to 25 1,758psf Mar-16

there are many units in CCR transacted at fair value but a few others are like these, don't try, don't know if can get the bargain. in any case, pple r lurking to exploit these inefficiencies.

[wannabe]

Budget of $1M, looking to invest in 2nd Rental property.
Any suggestions?
Currently looking at
1) Lincoln Suites
2) Robin Suites
3) Skyline Residences

[bargain hunter]

THE SUITES AT CENTRAL DEVONSHIRE ROAD Condominium 09 CCR Freehold Resale 1 $3,460,800 - 1,442sq ft Strata 26 to 30 2,399psf Mar-16

no logic right? same caveat date, a project few steps away, the 3 bedder costs $661k more vs the one devonshire 4 bedder mentioned above.

[bargain hunter]

Budget of $1M, looking to invest in 2nd Rental property.
Any suggestions?
Currently looking at
1) Lincoln Suites
2) Robin Suites
3) Skyline Residences

$1m could have gotten u a good unit at robin residences just a few weeks or up to 2 months ago. the project started moving and almost all the 1, 1+1 (which they call as compact 2 bedder) are now sold out. i am not too familiar with robin suites but its further from the mrt. lincoln suites units are surrounded by balcony/planter/bay windows. i am not very sure about the popularity of 1 bedders at skyline residences so better leave it to some expert.

[wannabe]

$1m could have gotten u a good unit at robin residences just a few weeks or up to 2 months ago. the project started moving and almost all the 1, 1+1 (which they call as compact 2 bedder) are now sold out. i am not too familiar with robin suites but its further from the mrt. lincoln suites units are surrounded by balcony/planter/bay windows. i am not very sure about the popularity of 1 bedders at skyline residences so better leave it to some expert.

Well bro, was checking out the lincoln suites thread and saw u condemning it with gusto few years back.
I'll be viewing the unit sometime this week.
Think the seller is letting it go at a loss.
Will update on how bad those stupid planters/ BWs are.
Meanwhile will do some research on Robin Residences.
Nowadays so many apartments/condos, really need to go a lot of groundwork.

[bargain hunter]

Well bro, was checking out the lincoln suites thread and saw u condemning it with gusto few years back.
I'll be viewing the unit sometime this week.
Think the seller is letting it go at a loss.
Will update on how bad those stupid planters/ BWs are.
Meanwhile will do some research on Robin Residences.
Nowadays so many apartments/condos, really need to go a lot of groundwork.

lol, so embarrassing. but seriously, for lincoln suites, u will find that the useable area is so small but maybe tenants don't mind or they managed to find some way to make those areas useful.

robin residences i think the last 1 bedder and last 3 1+1, all with PES are either above or beside the substation. one bedder with pes costs 1.198m and 1+1 (which they call compact 2) bedder from 1.431m. next jump will be 1.966m for the standard 2 bedroom with 2 bathrooms already.

[wannabe]

lol, so embarrassing. but seriously, for lincoln suites, u will find that the useable area is so small but maybe tenants don't mind or they managed to find some way to make those areas useful.

robin residences i think the last 1 bedder and last 3 1+1, all with PES are either above or beside the substation. one bedder with pes costs 1.198m and 1+1 (which they call compact 2) bedder from 1.431m. next jump will be 1.966m for the standard 2 bedroom with 2 bathrooms already.

I will soon find out. LOL
but $2300-$2500psf for Robin Residences really feels over the top.
Will give that a miss.

[bargain hunter]

I will soon find out. LOL
but $2300-$2500psf for Robin Residences really feels over the top.
Will give that a miss.

i think developer of robin residences has just about maximised the psf/quantum game such that it is just enough to move the project due to its unique location.

[bargain hunter]

i think developer of robin residences has just about maximised the psf/quantum game such that it is just enough to move the project due to its unique location.

5 more caveats lodged today including the last 2 409 sq ft units and final 538sq ft unit which fitted bro wannabe's budget:

18 MAR 2016 7 ROBIN DRIVE #XX-XX NEW SALE 409sq ft STRATA 2,489psf $1,018,000 N.A
16 MAR 2016 9 ROBIN DRIVE #XX-XX NEW SALE 1,464 STRATA 2,450 3,586,000 N.A
13 MAR 2016 7 ROBIN DRIVE #XX-XX NEW SALE 635 STRATA 2,305 1,464,000 N.A
13 MAR 2016 9 ROBIN DRIVE #XX-XX NEW SALE 538 STRATA 2,341 1,260,000 N.A
11 MAR 2016 7 ROBIN DRIVE #XX-XX NEW SALE 409 STRATA 2,513 1,028,000 N.A

[Kelonguni]

Actually how much rent are you looking at? Why do people even bother investing in properties with 2% yield?

If you have a better game plan like equities and bonds, I say why not?

detached housing, semi-Ds, strata housing are type of housing,
FH or 99-LH are the type/tenure of ownership
PPVC is the way of construction

As all these are mixed in your reply, I am not sure what do you mean by how I would make my choice
but I would always prefer FH, and prefer the penthouse in a nice condo to a landed house

As for your first response, one day, rent will stabilized, with or without foreign talents;
and government always can confirm and chop whatever it intends to implement, including to bring in more foreign talents, but whether or not it will realize is a different matter
Even if the increase in price is observed, it may only be a impulsive response to the policy of the market and may not last

for example, if today the rent has stabilized, and the government reduces the ABSD, and relaxes the foreigner's quota

Do you think
if the demand for rental will improve enough to move the rent?
if the hard demand, for occupation and not for investment purpose, for housing from both local and foreigners will increase enough to move the property price?

Thanks for your sharing

[Spincity1]

$1m could have gotten u a good unit at robin residences just a few weeks or up to 2 months ago. the project started moving and almost all the 1, 1+1 (which they call as compact 2 bedder) are now sold out. i am not too familiar with robin suites but its further from the mrt. lincoln suites units are surrounded by balcony/planter/bay windows. i am not very sure about the popularity of 1 bedders at skyline residences so better leave it to some expert.

Robin suites is quite close the the Steven Road MRT station and there is a cold storage and some eateries near by

[wannabe]

Actually how much rent are you looking at? Why do people even bother investing in properties with 2% yield?

If you have a better game plan like equities and bonds, I say why not?

Bro Kelonguni, i'm looking at 2.5-3% nett yield hopefully.
Lost quite a bit in equities so decided to perhaps enter the property market again.

[wannabe]

Robin suites is quite close the the Steven Road MRT station and there is a cold storage and some eateries near by

Bro Spin, have seen someone comment that RR is better than RS as it has full condo facilities.
But i find the RR psf much higher than RS.
Layout of RR could be better though because from what i gathered from the RS floorplans, lots of wastage.
Then again, need to view to have a better judgement.

[Spincity1]

Actually how much rent are you looking at? Why do people even bother investing in properties with 2% yield?

If you have a better game plan like equities and bonds, I say why not?

I would think that entry at 3% yield with a view of positive rent reversion at renewal will be a reasonable expectation for property investment

People who bought at 2% yield or lower may see a rent increase in the future, or they don't care about the rental income. However, I wonder how many investors belong to the latter group.

[wannabe]

I would think that entry at 3% yield with a view of positive rent reversion at renewal will be a reasonable expectation for property investment

People who bought at 2% yield or lower may see a rent increase in the future, or they don't care about the rental income. However, I wonder how many investors belong to the latter group.

Ya i dont hope for >3% yield in D9-11
I actually began my property search last Month.
Even ventured to places like GL and Farrer Park.
The workmanship and quality of the apartments there are seriously appalling, though their rental yields usually > 3.5%
Better stick to the more traditional D9-11

[Spincity1]

Bro Spin, have seen someone comment that RR is better than RS as it has full condo facilities.
But i find the RR psf much higher than RS.
Layout of RR could be better though because from what i gathered from the RS floorplans, lots of wastage.
Then again, need to view to have a better judgement.

RR is by the main road on a much bigger site, while RS tucks in the quiet Robin road
I can't comment on their floor plans as I haven't really looked into them, but just enjoy my jogging along Robin road in the morning

Lincoln suites is actually not that close the the MRT station, and the traffic can be quite bad in certain hours in the weekend but it is very convenient with a few shopping malls, restaurants and bars near by

[proud owner]

i think developer of robin residences has just about maximised the psf/quantum game such that it is just enough to move the project due to its unique location.

thats one reason why i dont buy new projects from 2010 onwards .... developers kept maximizing the GFA ...


imagine you own a FH condo ... after 30 years when it becomes so so run down ( sun + rain + sun + rain ... )

How to enbloc ? if the GFA is max-ed out ? unless govt increase its Plot ratio further ...

[Spincity1]

thats one reason why i dont buy new projects from 2010 onwards .... developers kept maximizing the GFA ...


imagine you own a FH condo ... after 30 years when it becomes so so run down ( sun + rain + sun + rain ... )

How to enbloc ? if the GFA is max-ed out ? unless govt increase its Plot ratio further ...

I don't think developers will leave un-used GFA on the table for the buyers even before 2010; they always max out every possible GFA with balconies, bay windows and air-con ledges
The last new development I bought was Park Infinia and have since stopped looking at new ones as they get smaller in total area and even much smaller in usable space
I also avoid developments with small site as their chance of being en-bloc is less even if the government relax the plot ratio in the future

[cartman]

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listi...one-devonshire

ask 3.2m, sold at 2.8m. 4 bedroom sold at 3 bedroom price. u guys din grab? or is it bro HP65 grabbed liao?

ONE DEVONSHIRE DEVONSHIRE ROAD Condominium 09 CCR Freehold Resale 1 $2,800,000 - 1,593sq ft Strata 21 to 25 1,758psf Mar-16

there are many units in CCR transacted at fair value but a few others are like these, don't try, don't know if can get the bargain. in any case, pple r lurking to exploit these inefficiencies.

why oh why i never get to see such deals? if any knows of any such deals and do not wish to grab for themselves, please pm me. thank you very much