Sky Habitat - Bishan

[minority]

hmm I must say so much hype for this project. I must say.. good luck to the Early Birds.. may they all make $.. but for stay enjoy the big odd shape balcony.

[Leeds]

DMG & Partners said the latest residential property project by Southeast Asia's largest property developer, CapitaLand, in Singapore's suburb of Bishan was priced at a lower than expected level.

The broker said the Sky Habitat project, designed by well known architect Moshe Safdie, was priced at between $1,642-1,747 per square foot (psf) which was priced at between $1,642-1,747 per square foot (psf) which was below market expectations of $1,700-1,800 per square foot.
“We believe the take up for the initial project launch is somewhat below our expectations given the good location of the project, and the initial achieved average selling prices are also at the lower end of market expectations of $1,700-S$1,800 psf,” DMG said in a report.

Singapore property prices have rebounded sharply from the steep fall during the global financial crisis in 2009 and record low interest rates have boosted demand.

DMG maintained its neutral rating on CapitaLand with a target price of $3.03 a share. The shares eased 0.3% to $2.94 and have jumped about 33% so far this year, more than double the rise in the broader market.

[repanse71]

hmm I must say so much hype for this project. I must say.. good luck to the Early Birds.. may they all make $.. but for stay enjoy the big odd shape balcony.

I am just curious what sort of computation goes in the minds of these brave upgraders.

Among my friends (not from elite group growing tons of monies :-p), we are aiming conservatively to live in one property and enjoy rental from another. Having a 2nd property for rental will be great, but no necessary as we diversify into other asset class.

If we only got one property at sky high prices, it's difficult to encash for retirement as we always need a place to stay? At such high prices, it's never realistic to expect to bunk in with our children. Also, downgrading incurring increasing cost and sacrifices....

I really wonder

Regards

[Ilikeu]

I am just curious what sort of computation goes in the minds of these brave upgraders.

Among my friends (not from elite group growing tons of monies :-p), we are aiming conservatively to live in one property and enjoy rental from another. Having a 2nd property for rental will be great, but no necessary as we diversify into other asset class.

If we only got one property at sky high prices, it's difficult to encash for retirement as we always need a place to stay? At such high prices, it's never realistic to expect to bunk in with our children. Also, downgrading incurring increasing cost and sacrifices....

I really wonder

Regards

I think their mind goes like this:

1. HDB (in Bishan) fully paid. Now probably worth $700-800k. Hold to this and rent out $3k when SH is ready to move in.

2. Cash + CPF = $500k ready savings. At least $5k per month savings (excluding bonuses) = $400-500k cash savings over 5-7 years

3. SH 3 bedder $1.9m, 20% LTV = downpayment + stamp duty about $450k... no problem.

4. Loan 80% = $1.5m over 30 years = $5.5k per month at 2% interest serviced by $3k rental in point 1 above and then OA in CPF another $1k each from husband and wife. Cash top up will be very little (hopefully).

For SH 2 bedder at $1.5m, even easier to work out.

[Lovelle]

those who bot are in their 30s and not normal financial circumstances

I think their mind goes like this:

1. HDB (in Bishan) fully paid. Now probably worth $700-800k. Hold to this and rent out $3k when SH is ready to move in.

2. Cash + CPF = $500k ready savings. At least $5k per month savings (excluding bonuses) = $400-500k cash savings over 5-7 years

3. SH 3 bedder $1.9m, 20% LTV = downpayment + stamp duty about $450k... no problem.

4. Loan 80% = $1.5m over 30 years = $5.5k per month at 2% interest serviced by $3k rental in point 1 above and then OA in CPF another $1k each from husband and wife. Cash top up will be very little (hopefully).

For SH 2 bedder at $1.5m, even easier to work out.

[Ilikeu]

those who bot are in their 30s and not normal financial circumstances

It is very possible for late 30s to do that. I think CAPL announced 83% of the 125 buyers are singaporean (which means about 100 units are sold to singaporean), age group not mentioned in reports.

[Lovelle]

It is very possible for late 30s to do that. I think CAPL announced 83% of the 125 buyers are singaporean (which means about 100 units are sold to singaporean), age group not mentioned in reports.

32 sales exec bot 2 and 35 public servant... All these got inheritance

[Ilikeu]

32 sales exec bot 2 and 35 public servant... All these got inheritance

2 (or rather 3 units) out of the 100 or so sold to singaporean... not conclusive enough based on statistics theory. Maybe majority 40+ yr old (or late 30s) buyers...

[minority]

I think their mind goes like this:

1. HDB (in Bishan) fully paid. Now probably worth $700-800k. Hold to this and rent out $3k when SH is ready to move in.

2. Cash + CPF = $500k ready savings. At least $5k per month savings (excluding bonuses) = $400-500k cash savings over 5-7 years

3. SH 3 bedder $1.9m, 20% LTV = downpayment + stamp duty about $450k... no problem.

4. Loan 80% = $1.5m over 30 years = $5.5k per month at 2% interest serviced by $3k rental in point 1 above and then OA in CPF another $1k each from husband and wife. Cash top up will be very little (hopefully).

For SH 2 bedder at $1.5m, even easier to work out.

So assuming the person who bought the SH is what age? typical age person married is 30. say HDB fully paid out by late 30s? 38 with 30yrs loan means out of loan by 68. So means cannot retire till 68.? what is interest goes up to 3.5%? Would that break the calculation?

In the age where people hitting 40s are consider endanger to be retrench. and to many employers 45s are consider old. and not hirable if out of job.

[gn108]

Maybe CM6 sld target Civil Servants....
Joking only ...

32 sales exec bot 2 and 35 public servant... All these got inheritance

[Ilikeu]

So assuming the person who bought the SH is what age? typical age person married is 30. say HDB fully paid out by late 30s? 38 with 30yrs loan means out of loan by 68. So means cannot retire till 68.? what is interest goes up to 3.5%? Would that break the calculation?

In the age where people hitting 40s are consider endanger to be retrench. and to many employers 45s are consider old. and not hirable if out of job.

Those who bot SH are not the "typical" kind... probably they have paid off their HDB by mid to late 30s (very possible when HDB cost only $300k for 5 rooms, and loan amount $200k++). Their pay is also not the "typical" range, i would say $15-20k household income. very possible.

[azeoprop]

review from h88

http://www.h88.com.sg/article/CapitaLand's+Sky+Habitat+at+Bishan+-+suburban+condo+at+city+prices/

[teddybear]

Thanks for the link. Some interesting things I observe from the write up:

---------------------------
There are 509 units here in various forms beginning from 1+1BRs. Most notable of which are the Terrace units which have giant sized balconies (and - to clarify - normal height ceilings). All units here are released for sale, the developers have not held back any choice units, which is pretty nice unlike some other developers we know.

The prices for an 11th floor, 1,023sqft, 2+1BR start at $1.65m before discounts. After a 4% discount, it comes to $1.58m or $1,551 psf. A larger 3BR, 1,247sqft unit on the same floor will cost you $1.91m before discounts. After a 4% discount, it comes to $1.837m or $1,473psf.


Obviously those prices are not in sync with the rest of Bishan.

[FONT='Trebuchet MS',Tahoma,Arial,sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT='Trebuchet MS',Tahoma,Arial,sans-serif][/FONT]

Bishan 8

[FONT='Trebuchet MS',Tahoma,Arial,sans-serif], a [/FONT][FONT='Trebuchet MS',Tahoma,Arial,sans-serif]12-year old, 99-year leasehold condo [/FONT][FONT='Trebuchet MS',Tahoma,Arial,sans-serif]just opposite Junction 8 and Bishan MRT had two units recently sold at for a median price of $1,146psf.[/FONT]
[FONT='Trebuchet MS',Tahoma,Arial,sans-serif]If you have $2m to spare, there are plenty of other condos in regions closer to the CBD that should come under your radar. We can think of some like:[/FONT]

• [FONT='Trebuchet MS',Tahoma,Arial,sans-serif]Ascentia Sky (2009, opposite Redhill MRT, about $1,400psf)[/FONT]
• [FONT='Trebuchet MS',Tahoma,Arial,sans-serif]D'Leedon (2010, Holland Road, about $1,600psf)[/FONT]
• [FONT='Trebuchet MS',Tahoma,Arial,sans-serif]Reflections at Keppel (TOP 2011, around $1800psf. You pay a bit more but you get an awesome sea view and a condo designed by an architect more power than Moshe Safdie - Daniel Liebskind - the designer of the new
  [/FONT]
• [FONT='Trebuchet MS',Tahoma,Arial,sans-serif]Soleil at Sinaran (TOP 2012, around $1800psf. At Novena MRT and the surrounding malls)
  [/FONT]

[FONT='Trebuchet MS',Tahoma,Arial,sans-serif]
And according to latest report on 16 April 2012 from CNA: "as of 6pm on Sunday, it sold 70 per cent of the 180 units launched for sale this weekend. The developer said eight in 10 buyers are Singaporeans. Eighty-one per cent of units sold were two- and three-bedroom units. Said to be the most expensive suburban condominium here, the development in Bishan Central is going for S$1,642 psf for a four-bedroom unit to S$1,747 psf for a one-room unit."
[/FONT]

So what do we think?
It's very over-priced. Sure you get to live in an iconic building, sure you get some nice views, sure you get to live next to the Junction 8 and Bishan MRT, but is it really worth THAT much?

For a bit more you can get a new unit at Reflections at Keppel or Soleil at Sinaran - both have a more upmarket vibe. No matter what, Bishan is still Bishan. It doesn't evoke the same as Newton, Keppel or River Valley.

From an investment point of view, at this price point, do you forsee prices going any higher? There are better options elsewhere.


That said, there is no doubting the quality of the developers, the wonderful design and the excellent location of this condo.

Much like how the Empire State Building was a sign of New York's pomp and prime in the days before the Great Depression, Sky Habitat is a sign of much that is askew about the state of Singapore's property market. It is overheating, it is unhealthy, that's why we get blips like Sky Habitat - it simply does not belong.

This 'gentrification' of Bishan though unavoidable is not something we'd like to see. Condos like Sky Habitat bring strong inflationary pressure to the potential and existing homes around the area. We won't be surprised to see the land next to Sky Habitat going for similar rates. But for the sake of all aspiring home owners and HDB upgraders, let's hope it doesn't happen. Heartland homes for heartlanders at heartland prices - that's what we all want to see.

---------------------------

review from h88

http://www.h88.com.sg/article/CapitaLand's+Sky+Habitat+at+Bishan+-+suburban+condo+at+city+prices/

[amk]

dun worry, I'm confident it will not sell more than 50% in the near term.

[Wild Falcon]

Yah. My guess and hearsay is correct then. All units released for sale but they solve backwards to achieve the 70% snapped up stats to look good. Don't agree this project "gentrifies" Bishan - Bishan has always been very clinical - when I think of Bishan Central I think of the MRT depot and Junction 8 and the on-the-ground MRT station. No pretty but neither dirty. the more I look at the model of the building, the more I think its not at all iconic. Having said that, River Valley and Soleil area are concrete jungles - doesn't have any upmarket vibe nowadays.

[teddybear]

Regardless of River Valley and Soleil area are concrete jungles or not, Do you agree that they are:
1) No HDB flats in sight for at least 1km
2) No big big transmissions towers which are known to be bad for your health (e.g. vs Hillview area)
3) No pollution from heavy industries (e.g. vs so-called JLD) where the micro particles from these heavy industries are known to be biggest cause of lung cancers.

In view of above, River Valley and Soleil area are much better than HillView or JLD or some other places where health is the biggest concern and people want to get away from the even denser concrete jungles and low-market human crowds in those HDB areas.

Yah. My guess and hearsay is correct then. All units released for sale but they solve backwards to achieve the 70% snapped up stats to look good. Don't agree this project "gentrifies" Bishan - Bishan has always been very clinical - when I think of Bishan Central I think of the MRT depot and Junction 8 and the on-the-ground MRT station. No pretty but neither dirty. the more I look at the model of the building, the more I think its not at all iconic. Having said that, River Valley and Soleil area are concrete jungles - doesn't have any upmarket vibe nowadays.

[Eldenfirefly]

The giant sized terrace just doesn't seem very practical. Singapore weather so hot and humid. Only in evenings and at night, then it gets cool enough to enjoy them. Plus you want some kind of amazing view for such a big terrace. But you don't really get it. This kind of terrace design reminds me of the Cliff balconeys at Santorini. But the weather there is much cooler and less humid, plus those cliffs overlook a harbour with clear blue water, and they are really high.

Maybe the view at the above 30th floor will be fantastic, because you can see the other terraces slooping downwards. But again, you will only enjoy that in the evenings and at night. Rest of the time, it will just simply be too hot.

[carbuncle]

So assuming the person who bought the SH is what age? typical age person married is 30. say HDB fully paid out by late 30s? 38 with 30yrs loan means out of loan by 68. So means cannot retire till 68.? what is interest goes up to 3.5%? Would that break the calculation?

In the age where people hitting 40s are consider endanger to be retrench. and to many employers 45s are consider old. and not hirable if out of job.

No wonder I feel old and laggard already. More and more young and coming rich ones like Price and I think Graveyard around....

[carbuncle]

Maybe CM6 sld target Civil Servants....
Joking only ...

Cannot buy private property below 40 regardless married or single. 30 can buy hdb of any size but 10yr MOP.

[carbuncle]

Somehow, Interlace looks more like a university campus than a condo..

Rumour has it PSA tg pagar will buy up the remaining blocks as accommodation for mid and high level staff... So they can feel at home both at and after work.

[carbuncle]

Let's come back and revisit the situation in a few years time.

In 1997, Bishan broke historical high records for properties in heartland. Some said, a new era and Singapore was undergoing decentralizing stage and Bishan will be a new city centre. Verdict was - Bishan remained as a heartland and has never been one of the new city centre

This year in 2012, Bishan is currently breaking another new milestone for properties in heartland. Again, people said - a new era and Singapore is undergoing decentralizing stage and Bishan will be a new city centre.

Will Bishan be a new city centre or history will repeat itself?

We shall see...........

I vote nay....

[maisonjai]

review from h88

http://www.h88.com.sg/article/CapitaLand's+Sky+Habitat+at+Bishan+-+suburban+condo+at+city+prices/

The 1st photo reminds me of this
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_wcjPZ-qJFv...00-h/blk29.jpg

nostalgic...from havelock....the balconies looked familiar too.

[alamak]

Anyone who is still thinking that bishan is the new city centre must be dreaming. There aren't even much plans to enhance the infrastructure around the area. If there was a parcel in the heart of TPY, the developers will probably price it like SH.

Bishan - Fat hope. already so developed.

I say the Bidarri and Potong Pasir area will be the new city centre in 10 -15 years time.

Why ? it is right at the heart of Singapore , just at the City fringe extension of CBD, plenty of time for town planners to develop something special ...

[Wild Falcon]

Fort Canning got one big tranmission tower. Sentosa also a lot of towers. Bukit timah hill of course got tower becos its a hill that doesn't have buildings around. Drive out PIE exit into Stevens one big monopole.

BTW, mobile networks are everywhere lah. just because no tower doesn't mean no signal. It means its on top of the buildings. The GREATEST concentration of base stations is in the city. You don't see towers? its because it on top of the buildings. when there are many buildings, telecom companies wont waste money to build towers. They just rent a small space on top of building.

Check your phone got signal or not. Anyway, this is out of topic. We are talking about Bishan.

Regardless of River Valley and Soleil area are concrete jungles or not, Do you agree that they are:
1) No HDB flats in sight for at least 1km
2) No big big transmissions towers which are known to be bad for your health (e.g. vs Hillview area)
3) No pollution from heavy industries (e.g. vs so-called JLD) where the micro particles from these heavy industries are known to be biggest cause of lung cancers.

In view of above, River Valley and Soleil area are much better than HillView or JLD or some other places where health is the biggest concern and people want to get away from the even denser concrete jungles and low-market human crowds in those HDB areas.

[Rosegarden]

This kind of terrace design reminds me of the Cliff balconeys at Santorini. .....

Spot on! they had a giant poster of Santorini on the ramp to the show flats.

They should serve some ouzo to complete the effect...

[DaytonaSS]

Yup, Fenghui is bad!

seriously you know fengshui or u casual remark?

[phantom_opera]

Bishan - Fat hope. already so developed.

I say the Bidarri and Potong Pasir area will be the new city centre in 10 -15 years time.

Why ? it is right at the heart of Singapore , just at the City fringe extension of CBD, plenty of time for town planners to develop something special ...

I thought future HDB is there ... how to be city centre??

[minority]

hmm so bullish in this area.. say something happen... within the next 12mths.. i.e. another lehman like scenario. Credit crunch.. those people that bought with a bullish view get hit. i.e. retrench.

Housing price plunge... say say 20% so SH becomes $1280psf. Interest spike up to 3-4% . Then buyer run into finiancial crunch. End up force to sell..

with 20% down and the ABSD penalty coz 1st yr being 16% ... total that is 36% down + 3% stamp.. thats 39% down..

a $2M 2 bedder seller looses 880K.. not considering 1% pay agent fees

hmm would be challenging times won't that be?

[teddybear]

These towers are different.
Those on top of buildings are mostly mobile repeaters with lower wattages.
Those on top of BT hill and BB hill are high wattages transmitters.
My friend's friends previously live in HillView area and keep complaining of headache, giddiness etc. After shifting out of HillView area, the headache and giddiness disappeared. Those people they know got several cases like these. Seem to be the effect of these transmission towers.

May be some radio engineers can confirm?

Fort Canning got one big tranmission tower. Sentosa also a lot of towers. Bukit timah hill of course got tower becos its a hill that doesn't have buildings around. Drive out PIE exit into Stevens one big monopole.

BTW, mobile networks are everywhere lah. just because no tower doesn't mean no signal. It means its on top of the buildings. The GREATEST concentration of base stations is in the city. You don't see towers? its because it on top of the buildings. when there are many buildings, telecom companies wont waste money to build towers. They just rent a small space on top of building.

Check your phone got signal or not. Anyway, this is out of topic. We are talking about Bishan.

[teddybear]

Got fengshui shi-fu to advise, after a long time learnt quite some skills from him....

seriously you know fengshui or u casual remark?