Watertown : Punggol Waterfront Living

[minority]

For troll who can't interpret data from squarefoot.com, your stupidity is indeed undisputed.

lol u dont like what you see in squarefoot.com? maybe u should write to URA to petition for them to change it so u feel better.

u can also write into the Potong pasir launch Sant Ritz to tell them dont sell their integrated project at $1130psf so yours will be able to survived.

my deepest condolence ah....

[Xan]

lol u dont like what you see in squarefoot.com? maybe u should write to URA to petition for them to change it so u feel better.

u can also write into the Potong pasir launch Sant Ritz to tell them dont sell their integrated project at $1130psf so yours will be able to survived.

my deepest condolence ah....

Not sure why you always like to disgrace yourself.
1) sant ritz was already launched last year in Q1 of 2013. (Are you outdated or out of your mind?)
2) since when sant ritz is a mixed development?
3) all units in sant ritz are going ard 1400 to 1600psf. 1 bedder can go as high as 1600 psf.
Which unit sold at 1130 psf? Pls enlighten.

Oh my god... What rubbish are you talking about?

Initially, i only thought you are just plain stupid, but now I realized you also deranged.

[Kenshinto80]

Not sure why you always like to disgrace yourself.
1) sant ritz was already launched last year in Q1 of 2013. (Are you outdated or out of your mind?)
2) since when sant ritz is a mixed development?
3) all units in sant ritz are going ard 1400 to 1600psf. 1 bedder can go as high as 1600 psf.
Which unit sold at 1130 psf? Pls enlighten.

Oh my god... What rubbish are you talking about?

Initially, i only thought you are just plain stupid, but now I realized you also deranged.

Exactly Xan! I have been observing the postings in this thread with amusements. I am flabbergasted yet again. Sant Ritz at $1130psf? Probably from mis-interpretation n self extraction at the squarefoot site again. Or probably he is talking abt some PES or Penthouse unit. So everyone now also knows his concept of average is different from the rest...no wonder he insisted Watertown on average is $1400psf. Even if 90% of units sold at 1150psf, and only a few at 1400psf, average to such person is still $1400psf....no wonder cannot align.

Anyway, the only value for money deal for new property there is Eight Riversuites @ Whampoa which is going for approximately 1280psf.

I believe this dude is those typical kind that is very ego and wants face one lor....cannot be wrong de. Even if accidentally fall down will not admit but tell everyone he purposely wanted to pick up a handful of dust from the floor....now we have Watertown average 1400psf and Sant Ritz average selling price 1130psf.....

[Xan]

Exactly Xan! I have been observing the postings in this thread with amusements. I am flabbergasted yet again. Sant Ritz at $1130psf? Probably from mis-interpretation n self extraction at the squarefoot site again. Or probably he is talking abt some PES or Penthouse unit. So everyone now also knows his concept of average is different from the rest...no wonder he insisted Watertown on average is $1400psf. Even if 90% of units sold at 1150psf, and only a few at 1400psf, average to such person is still $1400psf....no wonder cannot align.

Anyway, the only value for money deal for new property there is Eight Riversuites @ Whampoa which is going for approximately 1280psf.

I believe this dude is those typical kind that is very ego and wants face one lor....cannot be wrong de. Even if accidentally fall down will not admit but tell everyone he purposely wanted to pick up a handful of dust from the floor....now we have Watertown average 1400psf and Sant Ritz average selling price 1130psf.....

On the contrary, after seeing his post on sant ritz, I decided not to entertain him anymore.
I suspect this guy is mentally unsound

[alfanutz]

If we look at the caveats at URA, about 2/3 of the caveats are less than 1300 psf (regardless of the size).

Let's use the forum to share information and not make this into a battle ground.

[NO_7]

Sometime will wonder why some transaction are strange just like 1 unit at Ecopolitan EC transacted for $1104psf, it's not a sub sale or a resale unit, and if happen this was the only one transacted in the last 6 month, will the ave price listed still stand?

[Xan]

If we look at the caveats at URA, about 2/3 of the caveats are less than 1300 psf (regardless of the size).

Let's use the forum to share information and not make this into a battle ground.

From mar 2012 to 2014, there's only 88 units with caveat lodge.
The price range for these 88 units paid by late buyers range from 1300 to 1500psf. (They are mainly left over SOHOs and sky patio units)

But there are 992 units in WT and early buyers takes up the main bulk of the purchase, average price should be around 11xx psf.
I remember by end feb 2012, more than 800 over units were sold.
One unique thing abt this project is that smaller unit has a lower psf than bigger units.

Also note that the above price excludes discount such as stamp duty, vicinity, furniture. This means the actual psf paid by WT buyers could be lower.

Yes, I had decided to leave that mentally unsound minority alone, after seeing his post on sant ritz.
Apologies for any inconvenience caused.

[Xan]

Sometime will wonder why some transaction are strange just like 1 unit at Ecopolitan EC transacted for $1104psf, it's not a sub sale or a resale unit, and if happen this was the only one transacted in the last 6 month, will the ave price listed still stand?

If this is the case, squarefoot.com will reflect it as 1104psf based on last six month transaction. (Provided no other transaction takes place).
That's why some troll mistook it and insist it was the average price for ALL transactions within the project.

Meaning to say that, if I want to distort facts, I can also go ecopolitan thread and shout at all buyers carrot head.

[alfanutz]

From mar 2012 to 2014, there's only 88 units with caveat lodge.
The price range for these 88 units paid by late buyers range from 1300 to 1500psf. (They are mainly left over SOHOs and sky patio units)

But there are 992 units in WT and early buyers takes up the main bulk of the purchase, average price should be around 11xx psf.
I remember by end feb 2012, more than 800 over units were sold.
One unique thing abt this project is that smaller unit has a lower psf than bigger units.

Also note that the above price excludes discount such as stamp duty, vicinity, furniture. This means the actual psf paid by WT buyers could be lower.

Yes, I had decided to leave that mentally unsound minority alone, after seeing his post on sant ritz.
Apologies for any inconvenience caused.

That's great information !

The thing about Watertown is that it has many units and alot of the towers are quite close to one another. The "jewel" of Watertown are those units with Waterway view and there are about 160+ unit that has full waterway view (out of 992 units) and hence these are the units that command a premium. However, those that went in early (condo tower 3) got very good deal. Other condo towers like 1 and 2 has higher psf and Sky Patio tower 4, 10 and 11 has the highest psf though the floor area is the biggest. The units that transacted at high psf should be units from tower 10 and 4.

The SOHO and Suites which are smaller units don't have Waterway view and in most cases are 15 - 30m away from the next block (my estimate from the site layout). I actually like the larger 3BR SOHO as due to the mezzanine floor, it feel bigger than it's actual size.

Some interesting nugget of information. Those that stay at Watertown are responsible for the maintenance of the town square, the throughfare at Waterway point linking to the MRT and even the bus stop outside Watertown !

[Xan]

That's great information !

The thing about Watertown is that it has many units and alot of the towers are quite close to one another. The "jewel" of Watertown are those units with Waterway view and there are about 160+ unit that has full waterway view (out of 992 units) and hence these are the units that command a premium. However, those that went in early (condo tower 3) got very good deal. Other condo towers like 1 and 2 has higher psf and Sky Patio tower 4, 10 and 11 has the highest psf though the floor area is the biggest. The units that transacted at high psf should be units from tower 10 and 4.

The SOHO and Suites which are smaller units don't have Waterway view and in most cases are 15 - 30m away from the next block (my estimate from the site layout). I actually like the larger 3BR SOHO as due to the mezzanine floor, it feel bigger than it's actual size.

Some interesting nugget of information. Those that stay at Watertown are responsible for the maintenance of the town square, the throughfare at Waterway point linking to the MRT and even the bus stop outside Watertown !

Agree some drawbacks such as units too close, especially those 2 bedder compact units that are facing inside, facing part of he pool.
Maintenance for 1 bedder starts from $280. While I Thot it was expensive, parc Olympia maintenance fee for 1 bedder could go as high as 300 if I can remember.

Anyway, looking at the progress of WT, I hv some doubts it will complete on time.

[NO_7]

Buyers normally look at a project PPR to judges the selling price to be,
think this was a topic discuss on Parc Centros as well.
And project like Riversails with low land price was expected to sell low in Psf, while the last 3 EC in SK n Punggol will had a high profit margin if we base on SF.com breakeven cost and Prive on the otherhand made lesser.
Esparina EC current listed ave psf is 900 plus, will they sell at 700 plus or less by making a loss if market correct?
Many question hanging ard unknown especially the market direction.
Buyer really need to know lots of stuff, and I rmb ppl though that WT tower 1, 2, 3 are facing MRT track!
Ppl r too stress at work as we all did, having a nice place to lay back after a day at work is what we need, some may want to get out of the busy CCR or RCR area and switch to a relax mode.
Project will not wait for buyers, and buyer behaviour had changed.

[Xan]

Buyers normally look at a project PPR to judges the selling price to be,
think this was a topic discuss on Parc Centros as well.
And project like Riversails with low land price was expected to sell low in Psf, while the last 3 EC in SK n Punggol will had a high profit margin if we base on SF.com breakeven cost and Prive on the otherhand made lesser.
Esparina EC current listed ave psf is 900 plus, will they sell at 700 plus or less by making a loss if market correct?
Many question hanging ard unknown especially the market direction.
Buyer really need to know lots of stuff, and I rmb ppl though that WT tower 1, 2, 3 are facing MRT track!
Ppl r too stress at work as we all did, having a nice place to lay back after a day at work is what we need, some may want to get out of the busy CCR or RCR area and switch to a relax mode.
Project will not wait for buyers, and buyer behaviour had changed.

PSF PPR only gives a sense for buyers to predict what will be the break even price and selling price of a project. Ultimately it still boils down for developer to decide the price tag by looking at the general public sentiments.

Parc centro bid price was the lowest compared to ATT and WT but I don't see them selling very much cheaper than WT or ATT. Some 1 bedder can even go as high as 13xxpsf.

FE paid a very high price for the land in WT. At initial stage, I can sense that FE is not quite confident to clear all units, that is why they resort to selling it slightly above their break even price and gives a lot of rebate and discount. And worst of all, WT was launched in conjunction with one of the CMs.
Because of the CM, they even adjust 5 to 8% lower than their original launch price to attract buyers on the first few weeks.

Of coz, FE also damn smart, after seeing good response in WT, price creep up. Anyway, they had cleared almost 99%.

[NO_7]

PSF PPR only gives a sense for buyers to predict what will be the break even price and selling price of a project. Ultimately it still boils down for developer to decide the price tag by looking at the general public sentiments.

Parc centro bid price was the lowest compared to ATT and WT but I don't see them selling very much cheaper than WT or ATT. Some 1 bedder can even go as high as 13xxpsf.

FE paid a very high price for the land in WT. At initial stage, I can sense that FE is not quite confident to clear all units, that is why they resort to selling it slightly above their break even price and gives a lot of rebate and discount. And worst of all, WT was launched in conjunction with one of the CMs.
Because of the CM, they even adjust 5 to 8% lower than their original launch price to attract buyers on the first few weeks.

Of coz, FE also damn smart, after seeing good response in WT, price creep up. Anyway, they had cleared almost 99%.

Agreed, thats wat happen during launch and thanks to the CM.
There are more than price buyer are considering, stuff that integrates n comes with eg. coffee machine and rain shower. Some prefer glass balcony or the balcony screen provided, plus the all round pools view etc, but come with a cost and high maintenance too.
Only draw back is the price, then again look to the north where the next similar project will be coming soon, expected $ Xxxxk psf and we will be Wow again, many knows their PPR and will be visiting their Sf to see wat they can offer!

[minority]

Exactly Xan! I have been observing the postings in this thread with amusements. I am flabbergasted yet again. Sant Ritz at $1130psf? Probably from mis-interpretation n self extraction at the squarefoot site again. Or probably he is talking abt some PES or Penthouse unit. So everyone now also knows his concept of average is different from the rest...no wonder he insisted Watertown on average is $1400psf. Even if 90% of units sold at 1150psf, and only a few at 1400psf, average to such person is still $1400psf....no wonder cannot align.

Anyway, the only value for money deal for new property there is Eight Riversuites @ Whampoa which is going for approximately 1280psf.

I believe this dude is those typical kind that is very ego and wants face one lor....cannot be wrong de. Even if accidentally fall down will not admit but tell everyone he purposely wanted to pick up a handful of dust from the floor....now we have Watertown average 1400psf and Sant Ritz average selling price 1130psf.....

hoping to sell at $1300psf? lol good for you. ur carrot must be laced with LSD i guess.! but good for u!!! happy hallucinating. !

[Molotov]

hoping to sell at $1300psf? lol good for you. ur carrot must be laced with LSD i guess.! but good for u!!! happy hallucinating. !

Sighzzzz.zzzz...zzz
Bro Minority u really need help! U r full of hatred for people who can afford what u can't. Those carrot heads can afford to lose, dun worry la.

[Kenshinto80]

hoping to sell at $1300psf? lol good for you. ur carrot must be laced with LSD i guess.! but good for u!!! happy hallucinating. !

Hi Mate, welcome back. I know what you are trying to do and I wun get suckered in. Why are you using diversion tactic? Seen too many such folks in the business world doing that....let's get back to the main issues and not throw smoke bomb all over the place.

(1) You have not addressed the issue of where you got the average 1130psf for Sant Ritz. So your silence on this means that you know you have screw up on this one argument.

(2) You also did not dare reply to your baseless definition of 1400psf average selling price for Watertown. Guess your silence on this also means you start to realize you have got it totally wrong.

I think there is a need to differentiate between (i)opinions/views and (ii) facts on this forum. Definitely agree that we shld respect and accept diff opinions. For example, I am not a buyer of Watertown as my family does not like the huge crowd the MRT and Megamall will attract. But I do not go out to make fun or insult others who have their own preferences and views. You like it you buy...this is a free country. Another example, whether 965psf for a unit at Watertown during launch is expensive or not is subjective....everyone is entitled to their own views.

However, to distort facts such as average selling price is not correct. Example, the average selling price of Watertown is 1400psf as claimed by Minority. These are lies perpetuated just to save's one face and for self serving purpose to mock other forumers.

Anyway, first time I seen Bro Minority so over zealous in mocking pple that he extracted out so much wrong data and even more funny, trying to justify them albeit realising they are wrong. Ok lah, I goin back into hibernation mode...enun of playing with Bro Minority...I set you free.

[alfanutz]

Anyway, looking at the progress of WT, I hv some doubts it will complete on time.

Yeah, I have some doubts myself though some say sure can finished in time. I just saw the site and they are still digging, none of the towers are even built yet.

The best is the newsletter from Far East actually put the TOP as Q3 2016, a year earlier than the original Q3 2017.

[Xan]

Yeah, I have some doubts myself though some say sure can finished in time. I just saw the site and they are still digging, none of the towers are even built yet.

The best is the newsletter from Far East actually put the TOP as Q3 2016, a year earlier than the original Q3 2017.

So far, I didn't even receive any payment notification yet.
Not sure what about the rest?

[alfanutz]

Agreed, thats wat happen during launch and thanks to the CM.
There are more than price buyer are considering, stuff that integrates n comes with eg. coffee machine and rain shower. Some prefer glass balcony or the balcony screen provided, plus the all round pools view etc, but come with a cost and high maintenance too.
Only draw back is the price, then again look to the north where the next similar project will be coming soon, expected $ Xxxxk psf and we will be Wow again, many knows their PPR and will be visiting their Sf to see wat they can offer!

If I remembered correctly, the developer paid about $750 psf ppr for the land ,however this is including the mall also so not sure how to calculate the actual cost. But if you take it as $750 psf ppr, then those that bought at 950 - 1100 psf seems to get a great deal.

Actually, the timing for them isn't that great as they launch on the back of the implementation of ABSD. Far East actually call the VVIP buyers before hand and ask them what price they are comfortable in paying in terms of PSF and some other questions. I think most of the VVIP buyers were pleasantly surprised at the price they paid as it was definitely less than anticipated.

The project wasn't able to launch on the first day as there was some changes and they couldn't get the approval in time so all the VVIP buyers had to return the next day. To compensate, they give $100 vouchers that can be redeemed at a few restaurants under their management.

I think for such a big project and they launch after ABSD, the sales they achieved is quite admirable. Kudos to the developer for being responsive to the market and being realistic in terms of pricing. If they had stuck to their guns and launched all units between 12xx - 13xx psf, I doubt they can move all the units.

[Molotov]

Yeah, I have some doubts myself though some say sure can finished in time. I just saw the site and they are still digging, none of the towers are even built yet.

The best is the newsletter from Far East actually put the TOP as Q3 2016, a year earlier than the original Q3 2017.

The keys will be handled to owners in August 2016...from reliable source in Frasers. .in fact the columns for the upper floors are starting to mushroom out now.

[NO_7]

If I remembered correctly, the developer paid about $750 psf ppr for the land ,however this is including the mall also so not sure how to calculate the actual cost. But if you take it as $750 psf ppr, then those that bought at 950 - 1100 psf seems to get a great deal.

http://www.stproperty.sg/articles-pr...ertown/a/39917

Whole dev cost 1.6b!
Let's do a simple calculation, if $1.02bil translate into $750psf, then if $1.6bil should workout to be $1176 Psf on breakeven rite?
And a estimate if their retail component is $4000psf, as Venue already selling at $5~6k Psf, the final resi PPR could be lesser?
Least we know this project ain't that cheap in constructing.

I think someone is referring to The Venue Resi n shoppes as they are selling for the entire project ave of $1350 Psf with PPR ard $700 plus, that's is a smaller mix-dev facing right next to PIE, site is small and limited facilities. If not the CM+TDSR+LTV on 2nd ppty, they all could be gone in no time. Buyers who are waiting n waiting will just miss the boat on all opportunity to make a kill, only hope now is to wait for the next relaxing of ruling for multiple ppty purchase.
Different timing with different site attribute on projects will receive different response, who wanted to raise the Psf if sales r bad? Buyer also can't buy rite.

[Xan]

http://www.stproperty.sg/articles-pr...ertown/a/39917

Whole dev cost 1.6b!
Let's do a simple calculation, if $1.02bil translate into $750psf, then if $1.6bil should workout to be $1176 Psf on breakeven rite?
And a estimate if their retail component is $4000psf, as Venue already selling at $5~6k Psf, the final resi PPR could be lesser?
Least we know this project ain't that cheap in constructing.

I think someone is referring to The Venue Resi n shoppes as they are selling for the entire project ave of $1350 Psf with PPR ard $700 plus, that's is a smaller mix-dev facing right next to PIE, site is small and limited facilities. If not the CM+TDSR+LTV on 2nd ppty, they all could be gone in no time. Buyers who are waiting n waiting will just miss the boat on all opportunity to make a kill, only hope now is to wait for the next relaxing of ruling for multiple ppty purchase.
Different timing with different site attribute on projects will receive different response, who wanted to raise the Psf if sales r bad? Buyer also can't buy rite.

Technically, the venue is not consider cheap. Smaller units can go as high as 15xxpsf for mm unit. And on average, 14xxpsf.
Furthermore, it has only 28 retail shops. (Lesser than Greenwich?)
If you are talking the best price at potong pasir, nin residence was much cheaper. And of cos, it was launched years back compared to senette, sant ritz and the venue.

[alfanutz]

The keys will be handled to owners in August 2016...from reliable source in Frasers. .in fact the columns for the upper floors are starting to mushroom out now.

I benchmark Watertown against Bedok Residences and Bartley Residences as both were launched at about the same time. After 2 years, they are not completed yet though both have progressed pretty well. Some towers at Bartley Residences are almost completed.

Watertown is a bigger project with 11 towers and they haven't even completed a single floor. To compound it further, it has more landscaping, more facilities (I think at least 10 pools, 2 tennis courts, jacuzzi, bbq pit etc) and the town centre as well.

August 2016 is only 2 years 4 months away and that seem really really optimistic.

Molotov, do you know when the Waterway Point will open ? End 2015 ? Thanks for sharing the info.

[alfanutz]

http://www.stproperty.sg/articles-pr...ertown/a/39917

Whole dev cost 1.6b!
Let's do a simple calculation, if $1.02bil translate into $750psf, then if $1.6bil should workout to be $1176 Psf on breakeven rite?
And a estimate if their retail component is $4000psf, as Venue already selling at $5~6k Psf, the final resi PPR could be lesser?
Least we know this project ain't that cheap in constructing.

I think someone is referring to The Venue Resi n shoppes as they are selling for the entire project ave of $1350 Psf with PPR ard $700 plus, that's is a smaller mix-dev facing right next to PIE, site is small and limited facilities. If not the CM+TDSR+LTV on 2nd ppty, they all could be gone in no time. Buyers who are waiting n waiting will just miss the boat on all opportunity to make a kill, only hope now is to wait for the next relaxing of ruling for multiple ppty purchase.
Different timing with different site attribute on projects will receive different response, who wanted to raise the Psf if sales r bad? Buyer also can't buy rite.

If I remember correctly, the developer is not selling the commercial units in Waterway Point, preferring to manage the retail mix themselves. Not sure if they changed their mind. If they do sell and at the 4000 psf price point, they will bring in more than 1 billion just for the retail/commercial units and definitely will make good money for the entire project.

[yesnomaybe]

If I remember correctly, the developer is not selling the commercial units in Waterway Point, preferring to manage the retail mix themselves. Not sure if they changed their mind. If they do sell and at the 4000 psf price point, they will bring in more than 1 billion just for the retail/commercial units and definitely will make good money for the entire project.

No way will Frasers Centrepoint sell the retail units unless they want to have sleazy condom shops like in Lucky Plaza.

[Molotov]

I benchmark Watertown against Bedok Residences and Bartley Residences as both were launched at about the same time. After 2 years, they are not completed yet though both have progressed pretty well. Some towers at Bartley Residences are almost completed.

Watertown is a bigger project with 11 towers and they haven't even completed a single floor. To compound it further, it has more landscaping, more facilities (I think at least 10 pools, 2 tennis courts, jacuzzi, bbq pit etc) and the town centre as well.

August 2016 is only 2 years 4 months away and that seem really really optimistic.

Molotov, do you know when the Waterway Point will open ? End 2015 ? Thanks for sharing the info.

Waterway Point will be ready in time for X'mas 2015....Frasers say one...

[yesnomaybe]

Waterway Point will be ready in time for X'mas 2015....Frasers say one...

Why not ? FEO's Tennery is still under construction but beneath it is a functioning shopping mall.

[yesnomaybe]

The residential portion (Watertown) TOP is expected to be 1st half of 2017

[Molotov]

The residential portion (Watertown) TOP is expected to be 1st half of 2017

Residential units ready August 2016. Double confirmed.

[alfanutz]

Waterway Point will be ready in time for X'mas 2015....Frasers say one...

Thanks for the info. That is a more realistic timeframe from them.